StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[niconiconick64]

Though I wonder how they will do AR if they do VR with this

I think one back and another front facing camera would be enough for AR and VR.
In headset mode, the front-facing camera stays on for eye tracking and the back camera for AR.
In portable or tabletop mode, you could have one of the cameras (or even both) used for AR.

That said, a ToF sensor at the back would probably be a necessary add-on.

What I'd like to know is how good of a sensor nintendo could cram into a budget of ~400-500$.

I'm having trouble figuring out how they can possibly even fit two cameras and a ToF sensor on a device like drake where even if we re-use most components on a switch OLED, there would still be a considerable price difference between the x1 and orin SoCs.

I think due to price constraints, maybe we'll see another case of DS -> DSi with drake.

Like, 2023 drake release with the same design principle of a switch OLED, maybe an upgrade to a higher refresh rate display along with the SoC. Then like ~3 years later, a drake+ release with cameras, a tof sensor maybe even a die shrink for improved battery life. Released along with a headset case + headphones accessory.

 

[Hosermess]

Oh goody, the “it’s still selling well” argument, as though that is the only consideration to be made or as though Nintendo didn’t already cut a hot sales streak abruptly short before.

It’s like he exists in a world without NDAs or something.

Yeah, this is honestly more believable and better considered than what’s been spouted in these tweets.

PS3: “Hold my beer.”
DS: “Mine, too.”

Sales being great at the year prior to new hardware don’t mean anything, especially if they’re achieved in year 6.

Yeah it's definitely one of those unknown unknowns/he doesn't know what he doesn't know/absence of evidence is not evidence of absence kind of things.

It's also just like, his opinion, man. But at least we got a page or two out of it.

 

[Disorientator]

Ok so this is not directly related to Nintendo, but I still think it's very interesting as:

1. It comes from Samsung, a company not usually associated with gaming products/hardware
2. It's a god damn handheld console with a foldable screen

Oh and I searched (and came up empty) before posting this, but it could still be old news so be nice

Anyways, it seems that "Samsung Display Co., Ltd" filed a design at the EUIPO on 15/09/2022 for an "Electronic game console", which honestly just looks like a freaking Galaxy Z Flip with (fixed) joycon-like controls slapped on either side.

I don't know if this will ever materialize to a commercial product or it's just an internal design/prototype (or even something already announced I totally missed), but I think it's a really cool evolution of the whole Switch-like handheld concept.

There are obviously issues with this design (foldable screen crease, split batteries, low-profile sticks, etc.), issues that will probably make most folks straight-out reject it, but you can't deny it looks slick/futuristic.

It's also interesting how they're handling the sticks when in folded position i.e. using depressed-styled dpad/ABYX buttons that create space for the sticks to "hide" in, when folded.

If this was ever to come to market:

• Phone/"console" hybrid, game-streaming device or a pure gaming console ?
• Samsung SOC ? (which one?)
• Android or custom OS ?
• Galaxy Z Flip form factor or bigger?

Anyways enough blathering - here are the design drawings.

Fake edit: (It's not but) what if this was the next switch I mean the design was filed by "Samsung Display Co., Ltd" not "Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd", and the Switch (OLED) uses a Samsung screen doesn't it?

 

[Kise Ryota]

That's awful. 2k per eye is barely OK (specially with newer lenses). 1080p at best in a single 7" display? That's horrible. Screen door effect would make me feel like back in 2015.

As I said before, it's much better to do it right and have the console attached to the body, with a cord going to the HMD (magic leap like).

 

[Vash_the_Stampede]

There aren't any moral victories for players having to play games with shitty performance because "look at how impressive it is that it runs".

So true!

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2022/221109_2e.pdf

Excerpt from A7 by Ko Shiota (Director, Senior Executive Officer):

I always forget Ko Shiota speaks in these every so often. But, I don’t think the language has really changed much nor should we be reading too much into it. It is effectively a long winded no comment.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

I’ve already posted it once but they haven’t actually changed their wording.

Where did you even see the “not ready” comment because from what I can tell they just gave another “no comment.”

I always forget Ko Shiota speaks in these every so often. But, I don’t think the language has really changed much nor should we be reading too much into it. It is effectively a long winded no comment.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2022/221109_2e.pdf

Excerpt from A7 by Ko Shiota (Director, Senior Executive Officer):

I mean, even thinking about this, just for one second, why would Nintendo even talk about this randomly in a meeting? Like when have they ever spoken about a gimmick before they even reveal the hardware to the world? Or about plans right before a holiday shopping? The answers in this Q&A were pretty much useless, and they gave absolutely zero insight into anything of what’s going on. Nintendo saying “at this time we aren’t ready to talk about the next generation hardware“ could literally just apply to that one moment in which they were answering the question, and then two or three weeks later they just reveal new hardware like they didn’t just say that they weren’t ready to reveal it at the time.

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

I mean, even thinking about this, just for one second, why would Nintendo even talk about this randomly in a meeting? Like when have they ever spoken about a gimmick before they even reveal the hardware to the world? Or about plans right before a holiday shopping? The answers in this Q&A were pretty much useless, and they gave absolutely zero insight into anything of what’s going on. Nintendo saying “at this time we aren’t ready to talk about the next generation hardware“ could literally just apply to that one moment in which they were answering the question, and then two or three weeks later they just reveal new hardware like they didn’t just say that they weren’t ready to reveal it at the time.

I’m really puzzled by this response. The answers in the Q&A provided enough insight into the questions asked. For instance we do know what the plan were before the holiday period; promoting Pokémon & other games, discounts, & stocking up. It also reinforces some of the themes that Nintendo has talked about all generation now with NSO: increasing subs, retention, & transference.

All I’m saying is that we really shouldn’t dig too deep into the next hardware comments. It’s just another way of not talking about it till they are; which most likely means after the hardware has been announced.

 

[My Tulpa]

My post was more aimed at the thoughts about it releasing in late 2023 or even 2024, you know.

Oh I see! Yea, I think late 2023/2024 talk for a launch is silly too.

Also, going with that opinion, they could've launched in 2017 without Zelda, of course the initial batch would've sold out. But having BotW at launched helped.
And having TotK for the Drake launch on top of a new FE, a still new Pokemon and Splatoon 3 will help Drake in the long run.

I don’t think 2017 with BotW is comparable because Switch was a brand new successor console designed specifically to replace the 3ds and Wii U. That requires making big splashes and big software exclusive ties to create that demand from Day 1.

This new Drake model isn’t something brand new, isn’t supposed to replace the OLED and Lite models as soon as possible. Therefore, it doesn’t need a huge release like ToTK. They don’t expect this expensive model to be adopted quickly like a new console, but only as strong as a new model option.

It can be released alongside a “smaller” title, like OLED was, that help shows what Drake graphics/performance abilities can do to Switch games. Certainly whatever game Nintendo has planned for March 2023 can do that. (March/April Switch releases are currently a mystery.)

 

[AxkilAvenger]

Oh I see! Yea, I think late 2023/2024 talk for a launch is silly too.



I don’t think 2017 with BotW is comparable because Switch was a brand new successor console designed specifically to replace the 3ds and Wii U. That requires making big splashes and big software exclusive ties to create that demand from Day 1.

This new Drake model isn’t something brand new, isn’t supposed to replace the OLED and Lite models as soon as possible. Therefore, it doesn’t need a huge release like ToTK. They don’t expect this expensive model to be adopted quickly like a new console, but only as strong as a new model option.

It can be released alongside a “smaller” title, like OLED was, that help shows what Drake graphics/performance abilities can do to Switch games. Certainly whatever game Nintendo has planned for March 2023 can do that. (March/April Switch releases are currently a mystery.)

A new f zero could certainly be a “smaller” title to show off Drake’s graphics/performance. Call it F Zeroro

 

[yohoopzcrazy]

A new f zero could certainly be a “smaller” title to show off Drake’s graphics/performance. Call it F Zeroro

I'll one-up ya and suggest F-Zero NX

 

[Stinky Horse]

There will never be a new F Zero.
I could see Wave Race being a fancy launch title though.

 

[My Tulpa]

The impact of DLSS and HD on game development just aren't comparable in the slightest. DLSS is, for the most part, just an extra step in the rendering pipeline. The only new feature on Drake that could have anywhere near the level of impact of HD development (at least in a way that wouldn't make the games completely unworkable on the current Switch) is RT, and even that broadly tends to make development easier, not harder, and having to support non-RT hardware saps a lot of the benefit.

Also the Wii declined in large part because of the move to HD development, which is representative of why softer generational transitions are quickly becoming the norm.

I didn’t mean to imply a 1:1 comparison like that.

Although I have to assume that all of Nintendo development studios are certainly learning how to develop/optimize their build of games on a mobile-constricted tensor core/RT core DLSS utilization machine…something that they get better and better at over time. Something that a huge game in 2025 will utilize Drake to its fuller/better potential than a game in 2023…no? I know adding DLSS to engines with TAA is a simple, albeit rudimentary, way to utilize it…but don’t most Nintendo games/engines have poor to zero space motion vector utilization? I’d have to expect some learning curves and changes here. Maybe I’m wrong.

My point with the Wii—>Wii U example was to address exactly what you said…the latter half of Wii was impacted by declining support/engagement from Nintendo moving its focus on the Wii U and moving HD development exclusive games for that. (And to some extent focusing on 3ds as well)

Drake to me seems like what a Wii HD model in ~2010 would have been. The tech allows Nintendo to offer support to the older models while learning to develop better towards the new tech without Drake needing to be a stand alone replacement model break away from “old” game design to “new”. They can work simultaneous by the very nature of the design.

This was all a reply to the notion that Nintendo wouldn’t release Drake while the current Switch models are selling so well, that they would wait until they see engagement decline more, then make a big splash with a new console that everyone will move over to. They don’t want to do that, they don’t need to do that.

 

[AxkilAvenger]

I'll one-up ya and suggest F-Zero NX

Damnit that was supposed to read”F Zero Pro!” Anyway yours is good as well

 

[brainchild]

Unreal 5.1 has solved most of the prevailing issues I've had using Nanite (i.e. my forest/grassy areas that didn't use nanite could not run at interactive framerates before this). I wish this was the standard across all platforms because it is incredible.

 

[Stinky Horse]

Ok so this is not directly related to Nintendo, but I still think it's very interesting as:

1. It comes from Samsung, a company not usually associated with gaming products/hardware
2. It's a god damn handheld console with a foldable screen

Oh and I searched (and came up empty) before posting this, but it could still be old news so be nice

Anyways, it seems that "Samsung Display Co., Ltd" filed a design at the EUIPO on 15/09/2022 for an "Electronic game console", which honestly just looks like a freaking Galaxy Z Flip with (fixed) joycon-like controls slapped on either side.

I don't know if this will ever materialize to a commercial product or it's just an internal design/prototype (or even something already announced I totally missed), but I think it's a really cool evolution of the whole Switch-like handheld concept.

There are obviously issues with this design (foldable screen crease, split batteries, low-profile sticks, etc.), issues that will probably make most folks straight-out reject it, but you can't deny it looks slick/futuristic.

It's also interesting how they're handling the sticks when in folded position i.e. using depressed-styled dpad/ABYX buttons that create space for the sticks to "hide" in when folded.

If this was ever to come to market:

• Phone/"console" hybrid, game-streaming device or a pure gaming console ?
• Samsung SOC ? (which one?)
• Android or custom OS ?
• Galaxy Z Flip form factor or bigger?

Anyways enough blathering - here are the design drawings.

Fake edit: (It's not but) what if this is the next switch I mean the design was filed by "Samsung Display Co., Ltd" not "Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd", and the Switch (OLED) uses a Samsung screen doesn't it?

'using depressed-styled dpad/ABYX buttons that create space for the sticks to "hide" in when folded.'

It's more than that, there's a hole that goes straight through so you can see the stick poking through the back when it's closed Interesting idea but I have my doubts about how those buttons would be to use.

 

[Disorientator]

It's more than that, there's a hole that goes straight through so you can see the stick poking through the back when it's closed

You are right. Totally missed that.

 

[Deleted member 887]

Unreal 5.1 has solved most of the prevailing issues I've had using Nanite (i.e. my forest/grassy areas that didn't use nanite could not run at interactive framerates before this). I wish this was the standard across all platforms because it is incredible.

Unreal 5 really looked like a proof of concept. 5.1 seems to be actually viable.

 

[Deleted member 887]

Furthermore, although this is purely speculation, I suspect that with only one hardware line, Nintendo will now be more conservative with when they release new hardware. That is, they will err on the side of possibly releasing their new hardware too early, rather than risk releasing it too late and having the audience disappear by the time their new hardware is out. They can no longer hedge their bets between separate lines of console and handheld hardware, allowing failures on one side to be propped up by successes on the other. Their entire business is the Switch, and hence their entire business hinges on how they handle the successor to it, so I'd expect them to be more risk-averse than they were in the past when releasing new hardware, including avoiding the risk of leaving that hardware too late.

All of this post is good, but I want to single this out as an especially important point.

Microsoft is the 12th biggest company in the world, Sony is 536 and Nintendo is 482. Nintendo's capacity to weather a "failed generation" is weaker than it has ever been in their history. Even in the NES days Nintendo could retrench to the arcade and the game and watch.

Microsoft and Sony are both historically willing to use their power to sell products at a loss for extended periods of time in order to control the market long term. Meanwhile, if Nintendo's hardware sales go down, that limits the amount of software sales they can make, and both need to be profitable. Not having a second hardware line means that each hardware launch matters more.

Long term, Nintendo's strategy is to build Apple like brand loyalty on the one hand, and turn their various IPs into movies and theme parks to become Disney on the other.

But in the short term, Nintendo cannot afford to leave the Switch behind. This is why I keep coming back to this weird "revcessor" strategy. It allows them to stealth launch the next gen, extend the life of the current gen, and if NuSwitch doesn't fly, then they can keep the base Switch around, and try again in a few years.

If I had a quibble with Thraktor's (smart) analysis it would be that I don't see Nintendo's move as conservative. I think they know now that they have the resources for another big leap, and to pivot back to high(er) performance hardware and get themselves back on the map there is a risk they can afford to take, but that window might go away if they get complacent.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Unreal 5.1 has solved most of the prevailing issues I've had using Nanite (i.e. my forest/grassy areas that didn't use nanite could not run at interactive framerates before this). I wish this was the standard across all platforms because it is incredible.

in theory, it can be. Epic doesn't preclude nanite on last gen hardware, and theoretically, the switch as well. don't know what it would costs though.

wonder if Nintendo and friends will look into their own software rasterizer + mesh shader akin nanite. though Nintendo doesn't strike me as the kind of studio that would focus much on subpixel triangles

 

[Dekuman]

The subpar performance of Frontiers, which really should be a Nintendo lead platform title and the new Pokemon games really should tell Nintendo they need to have a successor soon.

It's disappointing we're... 2 years removed from the first exiciting hints of devkits going out and there's still nothing. I still think H2 2023 is the best time to launch, they can launch in Summer and get an extended period of high demand as the launch window sales bleed into holiday sales. But it's hard to guess where they may land on this when there's been zero news.

 

[Cuzizkool]

The subpar performance of Frontiers, which really should be a Nintendo lead platform title and the new Pokemon games really should tell Nintendo they need to have a successor soon.

It's disappointing we're... 2 years removed from the first exiciting hints of devkits going out and there's still nothing. I still think H2 2023 is the best time to launch, they can launch in Summer and get an extended period of high demand as the launch window sales bleed into holiday sales. But it's hard to guess where they may land on this when there's been zero news.

I’m all for new hardware but the reviews I’ve seen on Frontiers are mostly positive (the side by sides between PS5 and Switch aren’t crazily different) and the new Pokémon game is a mess with or without stronger hardware.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I’m all for new hardware but the reviews I’ve seen on Frontiers are mostly positive (the side by sides between PS5 and Switch aren’t crazily different) and the new Pokémon game is a mess with or without stronger hardware.

Fair enough but Nintendolife gave Sanic a 4 and said it looks awful on Switch.

“In terms of how Sonic Frontiers looks and performs on the Switch, it can really only be described as disappointing. On the plus side, the frame rate is serviceably smooth and solid, with a 30FPS target which it hits for the most part. However, the compromises made to achieve that decent frame rate on Nintendo’s platform are frankly mind-blowing. You’ll notice from the very moment that you set foot on Kronos Island that the game’s assets pop in and out all the time; we’re not just talking about small bits of foliage or rocks, either, but huge platforms, grind rails, enemies, and even entire cliff sides. Tufts of grass snap out of existence not only as you run away but also, inexplicably, as you approach them, apparently only visible briefly when Sonic is neither too close nor too far away. It’s genuinely quite nauseating to run through the environment only to see everything jitter and warp around you as the game tries to keep up. Gaze across the landscape from a distance and you'll see nothing but plain textures; no trees, no rocks, just a flat surface. It's only until you move closer that details start to seep into view.

Aside from the pop-in, the visuals just simply look incredibly grainy and muddy; weather effects like rain look more like static than actual raindrops on Switch, and character models look arguably worse than the likes of Sonic Forces. It’s a real shame how poor everything looks and it begs the question as to whether Sega should have bothered with a Switch release at all.”

 

[Deleted member 887]

The subpar performance of Frontiers, which really should be a Nintendo lead platform title and the new Pokemon games really should tell Nintendo they need to have a successor soon.

Better hardware will not help GameFreak, I’m afraid. This is not an issue of a big game that can’t fit on Switch. It’s a case of a deeply immature engine not up to the task.

Even if a new piece of hardware came along and eliminated all frame drops, GF clearly hasn’t settled on their post-Switch era formula and are going to keep delivering poorly optimized product until they’ve got 5 more years of engine maturity at minimum.

Nintendo is well aware of how much new hardware can do for them, but they’re not losing out on Pokémon sales because the hardware isn’t there. And they’re not losing out on hardware sales because Sonic isn’t there.

The writing was on the wall when Monolith, who knew more about doing an open world on limited hardware than anyone else in the industry, couldn’t get Breath of the Wild to 1080p

 

[Dekuman]

Fair enough but Nintendolife gave Sanic a 4 and said it looks awful on Switch.

“In terms of how Sonic Frontiers looks and performs on the Switch, it can really only be described as disappointing. On the plus side, the frame rate is serviceably smooth and solid, with a 30FPS target which it hits for the most part. However, the compromises made to achieve that decent frame rate on Nintendo’s platform are frankly mind-blowing. You’ll notice from the very moment that you set foot on Kronos Island that the game’s assets pop in and out all the time; we’re not just talking about small bits of foliage or rocks, either, but huge platforms, grind rails, enemies, and even entire cliff sides. Tufts of grass snap out of existence not only as you run away but also, inexplicably, as you approach them, apparently only visible briefly when Sonic is neither too close nor too far away. It’s genuinely quite nauseating to run through the environment only to see everything jitter and warp around you as the game tries to keep up. Gaze across the landscape from a distance and you'll see nothing but plain textures; no trees, no rocks, just a flat surface. It's only until you move closer that details start to seep into view.

Aside from the pop-in, the visuals just simply look incredibly grainy and muddy; weather effects like rain look more like static than actual raindrops on Switch, and character models look arguably worse than the likes of Sonic Forces. It’s a real shame how poor everything looks and it begs the question as to whether Sega should have bothered with a Switch release at all.”

Tbf, pop-in is a huge issue on frontiers on all platforms which NL may have misattributed to being a Switch only issue. I'm basing my view more on DF analysis which doesn't take into account the pop in of platforms but they still slag it for how it looks and the unstable 30.

I think had it been 60 fps with those visuals it may have been acceptable or solid 30 , but it was neither of those. I don't know if Nintendo cares if Sonic games perform poorly, but their own Pokemon games having terrible performance should be a red flag. Switch Pro was trending on Twitter yesterday with people mostly complaining about Pokemon performance.

 

[ILikeFeet]

The writing was on the wall when Monolith, who knew more about doing an open world on limited hardware than anyone else in the industry, couldn’t get Breath of the Wild to 1080p

I read it was Tose who got BotW onto Switch. don't think Monolith had much hand on the technical side of things, but the design side

 

[Terrell]

The subpar performance of Frontiers, which really should be a Nintendo lead platform title and the new Pokemon games really should tell Nintendo they need to have a successor soon.

It's disappointing we're... 2 years removed from the first exiciting hints of devkits going out and there's still nothing. I still think H2 2023 is the best time to launch, they can launch in Summer and get an extended period of high demand as the launch window sales bleed into holiday sales. But it's hard to guess where they may land on this when there's been zero news.

It may seem like it’s been that long, but the article about dev kits was from September 2021, and the first indication I can see of kits existing came from Nate during “E3” season. Or are you referring to something else I can’t seem to see?

 

[Dekuman]

It may seem like it’s been that long, but the article about dev kits was from September 2021, and the first indication I can see of kits existing came from Nate during “E3” season. Or are you referring to something else I can’t seem to see?

oh i have mixed up my timeframe.
I went back to check, first talk of dev kits was 2021 fall not 2020.

In my mind what were we discussing it since 2020, i don't remember what we were talking about in 2020 anymore

 

[Pokemaniac]

I didn’t mean to imply a 1:1 comparison like that.

Although I have to assume that all of Nintendo development studios are certainly learning how to develop/optimize their build of games on a mobile-constricted tensor core/RT core DLSS utilization machine…something that they get better and better at over time. Something that a huge game in 2025 will utilize Drake to its fuller/better potential than a game in 2023…no? I know adding DLSS to engines with TAA is a simple, albeit rudimentary, way to utilize it…but don’t most Nintendo games/engines have poor to zero space motion vector utilization? I’d have to expect some learning curves and changes here. Maybe I’m wrong.

My point with the Wii—>Wii U example was to address exactly what you said…the latter half of Wii was impacted by declining support/engagement from Nintendo moving its focus on the Wii U and moving HD development exclusive games for that. (And to some extent focusing on 3ds as well)

Drake to me seems like what a Wii HD model in ~2010 would have been. The tech allows Nintendo to offer support to the older models while learning to develop better towards the new tech without Drake needing to be a stand alone replacement model break away from “old” game design to “new”. They can work simultaneous by the very nature of the design.

This was all a reply to the notion that Nintendo wouldn’t release Drake while the current Switch models are selling so well, that they would wait until they see engagement decline more, then make a big splash with a new console that everyone will move over to. They don’t want to do that, they don’t need to do that.

As I said, using DLSS is a fairly minor change overall to the rendering process, and consequently, I don't really expect it to have an especially steep learning curve, even for teams that are not using similar techniques currently. The data it requires to work is a fairly industry standard thing at this point, and the primary novelty of DLSS as a technique comes from the "black box" bits that are provided by Nvidia themselves. The more transformative features of Drake, like RT acceleration or mesh shaders, are the sorts of things where having to maintain support for the current Switch would most likely create situations ranging from creating significant extra work to just rendering games just unviable. Using Drake to anywhere near its fullest potential is going to be close to impossible in any game that still has to run on a TX1.

But you are correct that Nintendo needn't and probably shouldn't shift their development over all at once. Doing this does not disqualify the new system from being a successor, however. If it did, then the entire concept of console successors would be more or less extinct at this point.

 

[carbonaxiom]

Microsoft is the 12th biggest company in the world, Sony is 536 and Nintendo is 482.

This doesn't change your overall point, but how are the companies being measured in this ranking?

 

[brainchild]

Unreal 5 really looked like a proof of concept. 5.1 seems to be actually viable.

That is certainly how I feel about it. Biggest changes for me (in no particular order)

• Stable Nanite support for grass, foliage, and opacity masks
• Large World Coordinates for world partitioning
• Improved Lumen reflection/gi quality
• Machine Learning Deformer (Animation)

in theory, it can be. Epic doesn't preclude nanite on last gen hardware, and theoretically, the switch as well. don't know what it would costs though.

wonder if Nintendo and friends will look into their own software rasterizer + mesh shader akin nanite. though Nintendo doesn't strike me as the kind of studio that would focus much on subpixel triangles

I'm not concerned about the technical logistics of Unreal Engine 5.1 supporting older hardware (though whether it's worth developing on older hardware is a different discussion). It's still something that each platform needs to support on its end; we will see if Nintendo will quickly adapt to new middleware standards and practices. I will refrain from sharing my opinions about the likelihood of that happening.

 

[ILikeFeet]

we will see if Nintendo will quickly adapt to new middleware standards and practices. I will refrain from sharing my opinions about the likelihood of that happening.

I figure we already have our answer to that. they didn't take too long to start putting out games with physically based rendering and what not. they work with Nvidia to create the software environment and immediately integrated UE4 and Unity. might they be missing something? sure. but their adaption is faster than ever

 

[brainchild]

I figure we already have our answer to that. they didn't take too long to start putting out games with physically based rendering and what not.

Unless we have grossly different definitions of "didn't take too long", I completely disagree with this. Especially regarding the time it took for them to adopt PBR when it became standard. Most AAA workflows started to adopt the PBR standard not long after the 2010 SIGGRAPH conference before the games were released. I would say the Switch is the first platform where most major Nintendo titles were developed with a PBR workflow, so it took them a couple of years to get on board.

That isn't to say that I'm suggesting it will take them as long to use something like Nanite; I'm just responding to your claim.

 

[LiC]

The writing was on the wall when Monolith, who knew more about doing an open world on limited hardware than anyone else in the industry, couldn’t get Breath of the Wild to 1080p

What writing was on the wall? I don't get the connection between this and the rest of the post about GF's technical incompetence, and I also don't agree that this is even correct in and of itself. BotW on Switch was a port decided late where they made almost no graphical changes. I doubt there was any particular effort to get it to 1080p, more likely they tried 1080p and 900p and found 900p was more stable without needing extra work. TotK, a game actually developed for Switch, is probably going to be 1080p docked (with dynamic res).

 

[karmitt]

What writing was on the wall? I don't get the connection between this and the rest of the post about GF's technical incompetence, and I also don't agree that this is even correct in and of itself. BotW on Switch was a port decided late where they made almost no graphical changes. I doubt there was any particular effort to get it to 1080p, more likely they tried 1080p and 900p and found 900p was more stable without needing extra work. TotK, a game actually developed for Switch, is probably going to be 1080p docked (with dynamic res).

Mario Odyssey wasn’t 1080p was it? And that’s far less open.

I kind of just assumed Nintendo thought 900p was a solid target to hit, and I don’t see why they wouldn’t afford themselves the same decision for TotK.

 

[LiC]

Mario Odyssey wasn’t 1080p was it? And that’s far less open.

I kind of just assumed Nintendo thought 900p was a solid target to hit, and I don’t see why they wouldn’t afford themselves the same decision for TotK.

Odyssey has a lot more going on than BotW in most environments, and better fidelity.

 

[mariodk18]

Odyssey was dynamic 900p, but more often than not hovered around 810p, at least according to DF.

 

[brainchild]

Odyssey has a lot more going on than BotW in most environments, and better fidelity.

Higher quality/fidelity, I agree. In terms of computational demand, I'd have to give it to BOTW, due to its real-time simulations and entity systems; there are simply more computational resources required to run at any given moment in BOTW compared to Odyssey. Still, Odyssey is the better-looking game, and puts the Switch hardware to good use.

 

[YolkFolk]

Odyssey has a lot more going on than BotW in most environments, and better fidelity.

Not really. BotW has an entire physics and logic system going on in the background. It’s a system miles beyond even what more powerful machines offer.

 

[Pooroomoo]

Unless we have grossly different definitions of "didn't take too long", I completely disagree with this. Especially regarding the time it took for them to adopt PBR when it became standard. Most AAA workflows started to adopt the PBR standard not long after the 2010 SIGGRAPH conference before the games were released. I would say the Switch is the first platform where most major Nintendo titles were developed with a PBR workflow, so it took them a couple of years to get on board.

That isn't to say that I'm suggesting it will take them as long to use something like Nanite; I'm just responding to your claim.

I think quite clearly there is more than a little difference between 2010 Nintendo development side and 2022 Nintendo with nvidia and others on their side, so one can't really project from what they did or did not do back then to what they would do now

 

[Hermii]

Higher quality/fidelity, I agree. In terms of computational demand, I'd have to give it to BOTW, due to its real-time simulations and entity systems; there are simply more computational resources required to run at any given moment in BOTW compared to Odyssey. Still, Odyssey is the better-looking game, and puts the Switch hardware to good use.

Sort of off topic, but how is your game coming along? Is it years out, or could we see it next year?

 

[ShadowFox08]

Oh I see! Yea, I think late 2023/2024 talk for a launch is silly too.



I don’t think 2017 with BotW is comparable because Switch was a brand new successor console designed specifically to replace the 3ds and Wii U. That requires making big splashes and big software exclusive ties to create that demand from Day 1.

This new Drake model isn’t something brand new, isn’t supposed to replace the OLED and Lite models as soon as possible. Therefore, it doesn’t need a huge release like ToTK. They don’t expect this expensive model to be adopted quickly like a new console, but only as strong as a new model option.

It can be released alongside a “smaller” title, like OLED was, that help shows what Drake graphics/performance abilities can do to Switch games. Certainly whatever game Nintendo has planned for March 2023 can do that. (March/April Switch releases are currently a mystery.)

Isn't something brand new?? Completely new hardware for Nintendo dude. Several generations ahead in GPU and CPU, as well as 4x more RAM and will have much faster storage. It's a generational leap in power with a lot more extra features the switch isn't capable of.

We can argue about semantics about how Nintendo will advertise Drake on release, but by all means hardware wise, it's next gen hardware when compared to the switch.

 

[yohoopzcrazy]

Here's a nice video showcasing some of Unreal's 5.1 biggest changes, to whoever's interested. It honestly blew my mind, so I figured I'd share.

It honestly feels absurd to zoom out of a dense forest, and not only keep the same level of detail and shadows on the trees (my biggest gripes with a lot of open world games), but to also improve performance while doing all that is just... wtf.

And the Lumen stuff is neat too, though I wonder how much the accurate reflections cost (and if it could be a bottleneck for mass adoption of Lumen, for now).

 

[Raccoon]

Isn't something brand new?? Completely new hardware for Nintendo dude. Several generations ahead in GPU and CPU, as well as 4x more RAM and will have much faster storage. It's a generational leap in power with a lot more extra features the switch isn't capable of.

We can argue about semantics about how Nintendo will advertise Drake on release, but by all means hardware wise, it's next gen hardware when compared to the switch.

there's nothing new about a "home console you can take with you on the go" though

 

[Hermii]

there's nothing new about a "home console you can take with you on the go" though

Then we’re back into discussing semantics.

I mean, there’s nothing new about plugging a console into a wall and playing games. The ps5 is just a ps1 I suppose.

Edit: why are you blue?

 

[Raccoon]

Then we’re back into discussing semantics.

I mean, there’s nothing new about plugging a console into a wall and playing games. The ps5 is just a ps1 I suppose.

lol as if it's splitting hairs to say it's not something brand new after the wii u, wii, and 3ds

and yes, the ps5 is just a really good ps1. that's why it's called the ps5

 

[Hermii]

lol as if it's splitting hairs to say it's not something brand new after the wii u, wii, and 3ds

and yes, the ps5 is just a really good ps1. that's why it's called the ps5

I don’t know what your point is. We know long literally almost nothing about the Nintendo side of things. The thing we know a lot about is the Nvidia side of things, where we know it’s a brand new, relatively cutting edge soc. Absence of evidence, isn’t evidence of absence though there might be innovations on the Nintendo side too, and it might not. We don’t know.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

It may seem like it’s been that long, but the article about dev kits was from September 2021, and the first indication I can see of kits existing came from Nate during “E3” season. Or are you referring to something else I can’t seem to see?

It doesn't use the words "dev kit", but this September 2020 story says some developers have been told to make their games 4K ready, which would seem difficult if they haven't been given anything beyond a base Switch kit to work with. Unless they were just instructing developers to make bigger assets.

 

[Raccoon]

I don’t know what your point is. We know long literally almost nothing about the Nintendo side of things. The thing we know a lot about is the Nvidia side of things, where we know it’s a brand new, relatively cutting edge soc. Absence of evidence, isn’t evidence of absence though there might be innovations on the Nintendo side too, and it might not. We don’t know.

please read context. My point is that this:

Isn't something brand new?? Completely new hardware for Nintendo dude. Several generations ahead in GPU and CPU, as well as 4x more RAM and will have much faster storage. It's a generational leap in power with a lot more extra features the switch isn't capable of.

We can argue about semantics about how Nintendo will advertise Drake on release, but by all means hardware wise, it's next gen hardware when compared to the switch.

isn't at all what the poster they're responding to meant. it's practically a non-sequitur. power sells itself

 

[YolkFolk]

Oh I see! Yea, I think late 2023/2024 talk for a launch is silly too.



I don’t think 2017 with BotW is comparable because Switch was a brand new successor console designed specifically to replace the 3ds and Wii U. That requires making big splashes and big software exclusive ties to create that demand from Day 1.

This new Drake model isn’t something brand new, isn’t supposed to replace the OLED and Lite models as soon as possible. Therefore, it doesn’t need a huge release like ToTK. They don’t expect this expensive model to be adopted quickly like a new console, but only as strong as a new model option.

It can be released alongside a “smaller” title, like OLED was, that help shows what Drake graphics/performance abilities can do to Switch games. Certainly whatever game Nintendo has planned for March 2023 can do that. (March/April Switch releases are currently a mystery.)

Haha