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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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AxkilAvenger said:
You should get in there at least for the laughs. One guy is saying how we had to re buy vc games from Wii to play on Wii U. Amazing how wrong people will remember things just to make a point 😂
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Not just wrong but continually double downing including calling people essentially corporate bootlickers. The other highlight for me is trying to use emulators as a gotcha on Nintendo’s bc.
MrEevee98 said:
I was looking through the Q&A PDF, I didn't find anything that made mention of this comment, can you give me the exact location?
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Post in thread 'Switch hits 114.33 million shipped, updated software numbers'
https://famiboards.com/threads/swit...ped-updated-software-numbers.4480/post-452316
Q5 for Miyamoto
I cannot find the second or third comment in the Q&A
 
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Hermii said:
Most not made by Nintendo.
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ILikeFeet said:
even most of Nintendo's hardware. the Wii was an outlier as far as performance goes. every other device had a notable performance bump over their predecessor. most also had some kind of gimmick to go with it
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Gen 9 performance in a handheld formfactor is gimmick enough. Plus most Nintendo consoles HAVE been straight power increases. NES to SNES, then N64 and GameCube. Gameboy, Gameboy Color and GBA. Plus 3DS to Switch Lite, a huge power jump that axed many gimmicks.

YolkFolk said:
So like most console successors ever then? :)
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Hybrid is a new sector and Nintendo dominates the home console space in Japan because of its success. Why not iterate on (financial) perfection?

I think Nintendo will bring back some gimmicks in the future, but not this generation. I could see Switch 3, the one after Drake, adopting wireless docking and better VR support, and a possible Switch 4 where VR completely replaces handheld and tabletop mode. But Drake? Drake is a handheld with raytracing hardware, that's all Drake needs to be, and that increased power perfectly suits Nintendo's requirements, enabling new gameplay possibilities. They won't repeat the mistake of the Wii U by shoehorning in an expensive unwanted and hard to explain gimmick when they can say "Breath of the Wild 2 in 4K with Raytracing. $449.99." and not be able to stock the unit for months from the sheer demand.
 
Mr Swine said:
My gut tells me that Nintendo wants to milk Switch as much as possible while having a steady decline YoY before releasing Drake.
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There's only so much they can do about this. Whenever they want to launch, they have to know WELL in advance to make it happen. If they wait until Switch sales are slower before hitting the Start button, they end up stuck with several years of slow sales before the next thing shows up, at which point its tech might seem a day late and a dollar short. Having your previous platform still be very popular when the new thing launches is a desirable problem.
 
Mr Swine said:
My gut tells me that Nintendo wants to milk Switch as much as possible while having a steady decline YoY before releasing Drake.
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Nintendo has publicly stated they will be aggressive with new hardware and make moves during continued success rather than wait for decline (referencing their mistakes during the Wii lifecycle)

And since they most likely will position/market the Drake model as a mid gen upgrade type thing, they definitely want to get it out while Switch engagement/sales are high.

In other words, they have absolutely NOT sat on releasing Drake the past 2 years because they are waiting for current Switch sales to decline more.
 
My Tulpa said:
Nintendo has publicly stated they will be aggressive with new hardware and make moves during continued success rather than wait for decline (referencing their mistakes during the Wii lifecycle)

And since they most likely will position/market the Drake model as a mid gen upgrade type thing, they definitely want to get it out while Switch engagement/sales are high.

In other words, they have absolutely NOT sat on releasing Drake the past 2 years because they are waiting for current Switch sales to decline more.
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If Nintendo truly wanted a pro or mid gen refresh...they had their chance when Nvidia shrank the Tegra x1 logan into the 16nm Tegra x1 mariko. Nintendo could had fully utilized the Mariko to it's fullest capabilities and added more ram and called it the switch pro. Instead they clocked mariko to match the original x1 used in the first switch just to extended battery life.

At the end of the day splintering your fan base between pro only games and switch games just doesn't make sense.

I still believe they were waiting for the shortages to be over, it would had been suicide to release a new console during the chip shortage. They would had been in the same boat as sony and microsoft struggling to make the drake console and losing out on sales due to shortages.
 
Quailman said:
I still believe they were waiting for the shortages to be over, it would had been suicide to release a new console during the chip shortage. They would had been in the same boat as sony and microsoft struggling to make the drake console and losing out on sales due to shortages.
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They wouldn’t though, they’d just be delaying sales. Nintendo has a unique position that is not comparable to that of Sony or Microsoft and it can’t be easy replicated at an affordable price either.
 
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Quailman said:
If Nintendo truly wanted a pro or mid gen refresh...they had their chance when Nvidia shrank the Tegra x1 logan into the 16nm Tegra x1 mariko.
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The codename for the 20 nm** Tegra X1 is Erista, not Logan. Logan is the Tegra K1's codename.
** → a marketing nomenclature used by all foundry companies
 
When Miyamoto says "unique games not possible on current hardware" I'm reminded of something else he said:

“When it comes to games, I don’t see the need for Zelda in 4K but for Pikmin, making it 4K compatible could possibly further show more small detailed Pikmin moving around, show things from an even further perspective, and being able to see more may make a more fun game.”
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Drake-exclusive titles could have a 'uniqueness' of being designed around / taking advantage of very high resolution.

Of course, he did say this in 2013 before the Switch's existence and games needing to work in docked and handheld mode.

However, just as 3DS games designed around 3D gain some extra depth and perspective, Drake exclusive titles would especially shine on a 4K display, even if the game has to work on non-4K displays like older TVs and the tablet screen.

I do disagree with him about Zelda - well, I guess Zelda doesn't 'need' 4K (nothing 'needs' it) but high resolutions absolutely benefit Zelda. BotW already benefited from being HD due to the wide field of view and visible detail at far distances which impacted the open-world exploration. 4K would really allow for more detail packed into an image.

(And again - he did say this in 2013 before BotW came to fruition. Wish someone would ask him again, now that we're closer to this being a reality)
 
Quailman said:
I still believe they were waiting for the shortages to be over, it would had been suicide to release a new console during the chip shortage.
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Well, they definitely didn't do that. That's one of the few things I can be 100% confident on. Orin and Drake have intertwined development histories and almost definitely shared foundry lines. Orin was announced in late 2019, and had its production schedule announced in May 2020, and that schedule has not slipped.

The absolute earliest that Nintendo could have physically made NuSwitches would be the same time Orin AGX's rolled out to customers, assuming that Drake and Orin were given equal priority by Nvidia, which they clearly were not.

While I'm sure that NuSwitch will be affected by the chip shortage, every indication is that it will be affected exactly the same as OldSwitch - getting Drake isn's the problem, the capacity is secured and on schedule. The issue will the things like the Bluetooth and WiFi hardware.
 
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LukasManak22 said:
I still think that Drake is not launching with Zelda and that it's in fact late 2023 release for a new hardware.
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As soon as the date for it was revealed that pretty much killed all thoughts of it launch with the next switch. Before anyone mentions the Lite or OLED y’all damn well know there’s a difference between those and an actually new console. They’re not gonna reveal the date of a launch game before the console is even revealed.

We should be getting some murmurs of it launch end of next year sometime in January and February. If not, then I’m definitely off it launch 2023.
 
Shiba said:
As soon as the date for it was revealed that pretty much killed all thoughts of it launch with the next switch. Before anyone mentions the Lite or OLED y’all damn well know there’s a difference between those and an actually new console. They’re not gonna reveal the date of a launch game before the console is even revealed.
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Yeah that's not how it works. First, we have no idea if Nintendo will be treating this as "an actually new console" or not. Rumors actually suggest they will not, but aren't pointing all that heavily either way.

Second, from the standpoint of announcing a game for a date before a new hardware is announced, there is zero difference in this case. Marketing and release strategy doesn't care how many more gigaflops this console is compared to the Lite or OLED. They announce things this way for particular reasons typically dealing with shipping logistics and discussions with retailers.


Third, many of us think it is likely to be launching with Zelda.
 
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Skittzo said:
Yeah that's not how it works. First, we have no idea if Nintendo will be treating this as "an actually new console" or not. Rumors actually suggest they will not, but aren't pointing all that heavily either way
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I also fail to understand why Nintendo needs to give the system a long runway if the focus out the gate is on titles that support all Switch devices?

They need time to produce enough units for a launch, that’s fair - but if they’ve sorted out production leaks isn’t that sufficient enough to decouple production from marketing to a degree?

As for marketing, how long is enough? With Switch the marketing kicked off in earnest from January; October set the stage to show the world the concept. The concept isn’t really new here (we assume), and a good showcase in January would probably be all it takes to sell all the units being produced.

Shiba said:
So Drake isn’t not even a successor now? or is the story being switched up again?
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It’s more that since 2021, the leaks / insider messaging has shown that it’s positioning is not clear. There’s been little about it being a traditional successor, but several indicators of being ‘part of the Switch family’, along with ‘playing Switch games in 4K.’ What Nintendo does with the device, how it launches, and what the ‘Switch family’ looks like in a few years time is totally unclear. For all we know we hit 2025/26 and Switch OLED is still being sold with first party games.

The only people saying it has to be a successor do so based on the understood capabilities of the machine. I think the only thing that is safe to say at this stage is that we cannot say anything with certainty around how it’s positioned.
 
Concernt said:
Plus most Nintendo consoles HAVE been straight power increases. NES to SNES, then N64 and GameCube. Gameboy, Gameboy Color and GBA. Plus 3DS to Switch Lite, a huge power jump that axed many gimmicks.
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NES to SNES -> Shoulder buttons and extra face buttons
to N64 -> Analog stick, rumble and extra buttons
to GC -> Disks, Analog triggers and second stick
to Wii -> Motion controls and extra buttons
to Wii U -> Touch screen, extra buttons and second stick back
to Switch -> Portability, HD rumble, IR camera, tabletop mode and Wii-like motion back
GB to GBA -> Shoulder buttons
to DS -> Touch screen, microphone and extra buttons
to 3DS -> 3D, Circle pad, gyroscope

And I'm probably forgetting a bunch...

They have always added things to their successor that allowed new experiences beyond what comes from the power bump. Wii and the Switch were outliers because they also cut a lot of the fat of their predecessor and they weren't a big jump in power (depending on which system you're looking at as the Switch predecessor), which led them to laser focus on what the predecessor couldn't do.

People have been blaming the Wii's lack of power on the motion controls and created this hate against any inovation attempt. But the truth is that the Wii wasn't HD because they simply weren't ready for HD development in 2006 nor in 2012, selling hardware at loss or really expensive 3rd party moneyhats. Xbox leveraged their money and pushed competition to fight with the same weapons. Sony was able to fight back, although at great costs, but for Nintendo fighting them with money was the same as filing bankruptcy. They chose to fight with their own strengths (creativity, efficiency and portability), and it paid off.
 
Assuming that Nintendo does launch H1 2023 it will be a reasonable promotional window for a "pro" refresh. It will be the shortest for a next gen console ever.

Assuming that Nintendo does launch a "pro" refresh, Drake is a insane design. No similarly positioned console has had such a complete internal overhaul.

If Drake is in fact, a next gen console from Nintendo, AND Nintendo doesn't want to release H1 2023, then not only does the production schedule relative to Drake make no sense, then it will be the biggest "final year" of a console's life, ever.

The reason we go back and forth constantly on this is because there is no way to square this circle that looks like anything else. Anyone stepping up to say "obviously Nintendo won't do X, it would be insane" is usually making an assumption about how Nintendo will position the device, and literally any and all positioning is unprecedented in one way or another.
 
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Shiba said:
So Drake isn’t not even a successor now? or is the story being switched up again?
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It has never been clear if it's going to be a successor, an upgrade, or a combination of the two. My money is on the combination and apparently devs have been told it's still a "Switch", for what that's worth.

But there's been nothing to suggest it was ever planned as a "successor" in the typical Nintendo sense.
 
Drake is the friends we made along the way.

On a more serious note, it doesn't matter whether it's marketed as a new system or not, Nintendo will pivot where needed. When the DS was announced, they said it wouldn't replace the GBA. When the Switch was announced, they said it wouldn't compete with the 3DS and that the 3DS would continue support long into the Switch's life cycle, and again, that didn't happen.

I think the system has been shown to be powerful enough to warrant a new generation, but it's up to Nintendo on whether or not they want to keep pushing the base Switch line as it's still profiting them plenty. But ultimately, whether Drake is a successor or pitched as a higher powered part of the Switch family probably means little, if Switch's stop selling and Drake overtakes sales, they'll pivot to Drake as their main product just like they've done with previous systems.
 
Pennington said:
Most people seem convinced that Drake will support backwards compatibility. Where does this confidence come from? I don't know of any irrefutable fact which confirms it. I feel that in this stage of the games industry it is almost expected for a new device to have some BC, but is there any evidence explicitly declaring this?
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There's no evidence either way, just going by history though Nintendo has ensured full BC far more often than not for their handheld consoles. They have a lot to gain by making this fully BC and a lot to lose if they don't, mainly their digital ecosystem and digital spending.

Also if it's treated more as a revision than a successor than it damn well better be BC.
 
Truno said:
I'd wager that most people who browse this thread are not playing many Switch games these days lol
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I feel vulnerable, I've been playing a cheap Android Pokémon rip-off with a bad machine translation for days now. And convinced myself that it is actually a decent videogame, which it is. It doesn't even have a proper name because it keeps changing it because it is getting removed from the Play Store all the time.
 
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Pennington said:
Most people seem convinced that Drake will support backwards compatibility. Where does this confidence come from? I don't know of any irrefutable fact which confirms it. I feel that in this stage of the games industry it is almost expected for a new device to have some BC, but is there any evidence explicitly declaring this?
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When the first proper rumors started to come out, NateDrake said he knew of an exclusive but it was small. Bloomberg said developers were told to ready their games for 4k. All of these things heavily imply backwards compat, but for the most part the assumption of BC is built into the initial idea of it as clearly a "pro" model.

Recently we've heard things like "partners were recently briefed, device is intended to be marketed as a new Switch," and "still expect H1 2023". Nintendo launching a non-BC device called a Switch without 8 months of lead up would be insane. But that's as close to stating it as any reasonable source I'm aware of.

In terms of implication though...

A lack of BC would mean that either the new device wouldn't get Fire Emblem: Engage, Tears of the Kingdom, Pikmin 4, Pokemon Scarlet & Violet, Return to Dreamland Deluxe, Advance Wars 1+2 or that the teams working on these games have been secretly supporting ports to 2 platforms during their development. By contrast, the Switch itself, which was often called a Wii U Port machine, only had 2 first party Wii U ports in its first year (Zelda, Mario Kart), and only one of them was ported during development (Zelda). Doing 6 would be outrageously expensive.

Maybe we're wrong about the launch window, and NuSwitch hits October of 2023, and announces in January, giving a reasonable run up to a next gen device. Nintendo breaks BC, ports Pikmin and Zelda and Metroid as the devices launch titles, the Switch gets the best final year of game releases in the history of consoles, and Nintendo's software releases just stop between May and October next year because they can't drop anything enticing that won't be on the next machine.

Switch not having BC with 3DS and/or the Wii U was driven by form factor more than anything else. In this case that isn't a problem, and Nintendo has only ever had one handheld gen break compat with the previous handheld gen, and that was the Switch itself. I would be astonished if it didn't.
 
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Truno said:
I'd wager that most people who browse this thread aren't playing many Switch games these days lol
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I play quite a bit still, but I’m pretty selective. Splatoon 3 has had great staying power for me. Outside of that? Mario Rabbids in handheld is a good time. I’ll probably get Tactics Ogre as well.

I’ve notably skipped Xenoblade 3 due to not being happy with performance.
 
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I love to recreationally seethe and mald but there's just no sensible strategy in which new hardware that doesn't play Switch games comes any time soon
 
Truno said:
I'd wager that most people who browse this thread aren't playing many Switch games these days lol
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I'm actually curious about that. I own a PS4, it's never been plugged in, and I do not have a gaming PC. I play some mindless phone games, and am working my way through Nier Automata on Switch.

How many people have played a Switch game in the last month? How many have not?
 
Truno said:
I'd wager that most people who browse this thread aren't playing many Switch games these days lol
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Switch has been my Metroidvania machine this past month after I recover from Xenoblade 3 making me cry (in a good way!)

mClassic on my 4K TV and a second dock connected to a CRT monitor help with the Drake thirst, I can have better IQ for the time being.

Also not going to miss out on open-world Pokemon while the zeitgeist is strong.
 
oldpuck said:
I'm actually curious about that. I own a PS4, it's never been plugged in, and I do not have a gaming PC. I play some mindless phone games, and am working my way through Nier Automata on Switch.

How many people have played a Switch game in the last month? How many have not?
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Currently playing Bayonetta 3 and I'm loving it! Switch has been my most played console this year, which is not a common occurrence
 
Out of the missing features on current gen:
  • built-in mic
  • frontal/back cameras
  • analog ZL/ZR triggers
  • WiiU-like video streaming to an external display
  • magnetic analog sticks

  • game standby and quick resume
  • background apps

Which ones yall feel like are coming back?

Notice how I left out features like DS/3DS dual screens, dual cameras and 3D displays. I think it's reasonable to not expect a comeback for these.

Imo, analog triggers, background apps are reasonable additions.
 
Pennington said:
Most people seem convinced that Drake will support backwards compatibility. Where does this confidence come from? I don't know of any irrefutable fact which confirms it. I feel that in this stage of the games industry it is almost expected for a new device to have some BC, but is there any evidence explicitly declaring this?
Click to expand...
Considering history (especially Nintendo's history), the current state of the console market, the seeming lack of insurmountable technical barriers, and Nintendo's general statements about their future strategy, there's just no reason to expect it to be absent at this time.
 
Shiba said:
As soon as the date for it was revealed that pretty much killed all thoughts of it launch with the next switch. Before anyone mentions the Lite or OLED y’all damn well know there’s a difference between those and an actually new console. They’re not gonna reveal the date of a launch game before the console is even revealed.
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Maybe they figured that giving a date was better than continuing to give vague years/seasons that they've repeatedly missed, and those of us who don't immediately react with disgust to any rumors about the new hardware are an inconsequential minority.
Pennington said:
Most people seem convinced that Drake will support backwards compatibility. Where does this confidence come from? I don't know of any irrefutable fact which confirms it. I feel that in this stage of the games industry it is almost expected for a new device to have some BC, but is there any evidence explicitly declaring this?
Click to expand...
The only Nintendo hardware this century to miss out on BC are those with radical changes between them. N64 to GCN, radically different. 3DS or Wii U to Switch, radically different. But going from one ARM/NVIDIA hybrid machine to a several years newer ARM/NVIDIA hybrid machine is nothing like those cases.
 
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oldpuck said:
I'm actually curious about that. I own a PS4, it's never been plugged in, and I do not have a gaming PC. I play some mindless phone games, and am working my way through Nier Automata on Switch.

How many people have played a Switch game in the last month? How many have not?
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In the last month I've finished Xenoblade 2, Luigi's Mansion, played a lot of Splatoon 3. It's normally more games but Xenoblade took up most of time. I primarily game on Switch. I have a PS5 as well. And if a game comes out and it's on multiple systems, I still always buy the Switch version. Gaming on the go is a huge boost for me, and I vastly prefer the Pro controller to any other controller this gen. The xbox controller is pretty good though.
 
Truno said:
I'd wager that most people who browse this thread aren't playing many Switch games these days lol
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I'm not playing any games right now. I've got a newborn. Then again, I'm not posting very much in this thread either. I'm mostly just vibing.
 
Pokemaniac said:
Considering history (especially Nintendo's history), the current state of the console market, the seeming lack of insurmountable technical barriers, and Nintendo's general statements about their future strategy, there's just no reason to expect it to be absent at this time.
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It should have never been in doubt then & now. Especially after the latest financials.
 
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Skittzo said:
That should absolutely be the expectation, not the worst case.

You shouldn't expect anything better than that unless a game gets a 4k patch.
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but modders can make persona 60fps with a 2016 backdoor and a box of scraps

damn you nintendo

edit: max dynamic specs would absolutely be noticeable
 
Raccoon said:
but modders can make persona 60fps with a 2016 backdoor and a box of scraps

damn you nintendo

edit: max dynamic specs would absolutely be noticeable
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Noticeable to us (well probably not me) but certainly not most people
 
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oldpuck said:
How many people have played a Switch game in the last month? How many have not?
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Haven't played anything except for some grinding in Pokemon Shield and that's finished too. Not for a bad reason or anything, I'm happy with the current Switch's performance. However, I'll start playing on Switch again once the next system is released and go all digital.
 
niconiconick64 said:
Out of the missing features on current gen:
  • built-in mic
  • frontal/back cameras
  • analog ZL/ZR triggers
  • WiiU-like video streaming to an external display
  • magnetic analog sticks

  • game standby and quick resume
  • background apps

Which ones yall feel like are coming back?

Notice how I left out features like DS/3DS dual screens, dual cameras and 3D displays. I think it's reasonable to not expect a comeback for these.

Imo, analog triggers, background apps are reasonable additions.
Click to expand...
Would love to see front-facing cameras and Hall effect sticks.

I hope analog triggers are not coming back.
 
niconiconick64 said:
Out of the missing features on current gen:
  • built-in mic
  • frontal/back cameras
  • analog ZL/ZR triggers
  • WiiU-like video streaming to an external display
  • magnetic analog sticks

  • game standby and quick resume
  • background apps

Which ones yall feel like are coming back?

Notice how I left out features like DS/3DS dual screens, dual cameras and 3D displays. I think it's reasonable to not expect a comeback for these.

Imo, analog triggers, background apps are reasonable additions.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna be real, I have no idea what you mean by background apps
 
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