StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[Klax0nKlax0ff]

How realistic is it that production on Drake begins in January with a release in April or May? Is there precedence for that time window in console/tech? Any materiel updates on the state of chip and supply shortages, freight costs, and other logistical barriers in the tech space?

 

[ILikeFeet]

I'm gonna be real, I have no idea what you mean by background apps

stuff like spotify or discord. or maybe even streaming functions

 

[Concernt]

NES to SNES -> Shoulder buttons and extra face buttons
to N64 -> Analog stick, rumble and extra buttons
to GC -> Disks, Analog triggers and second stick
to Wii -> Motion controls and extra buttons
to Wii U -> Touch screen, extra buttons and second stick back
to Switch -> Portability, HD rumble, IR camera, tabletop mode and Wii-like motion back
GB to GBA -> Shoulder buttons
to DS -> Touch screen, microphone and extra buttons
to 3DS -> 3D, Circle pad, gyroscope

And I'm probably forgetting a bunch...

They have always added things to their successor that allowed new experiences beyond what comes from the power bump. Wii and the Switch were outliers because they also cut a lot of the fat of their predecessor and they weren't a big jump in power (depending on which system you're looking at as the Switch predecessor), which led them to laser focus on what the predecessor couldn't do.

People have been blaming the Wii's lack of power on the motion controls and created this hate against any inovation attempt. But the truth is that the Wii wasn't HD because they simply weren't ready for HD development in 2006 nor in 2012, selling hardware at loss or really expensive 3rd party moneyhats. Xbox leveraged their money and pushed competition to fight with the same weapons. Sony was able to fight back, although at great costs, but for Nintendo fighting them with money was the same as filing bankruptcy. They chose to fight with their own strengths (creativity, efficiency and portability), and it paid off.

Extra buttons are not gimmicks.

 

[Skittzo]

Extra buttons are not gimmicks.

The dpad was called a gimmick. Everything new and different is called a gimmick by some people. Shoulder buttons absolutely were criticized at first.

 

[Concernt]

The dpad was called a gimmick. Everything new and different is called a gimmick by some people. Shoulder buttons absolutely were criticized at first.

Being called something doesn't make it a gimmick. Hybrid is a gimmick, RT is a gimmick, IR motion controls like the Wii, that's a gimmick.

Drake already HAS gimmicks, RT, a 4K handheld, new stuff enabling new games. It doesn't NEED scroll wheel shoulder buttons, so I doubt it will have them.

 

[MSnap]

Seeing as there are still people who think that the 3DS is just another member of the DS family, I can see why there’s some confusion over what kind of upgrade it’ll be if it comes in the same form factor as Switch.

 

[Concernt]

How realistic is it that production on Drake begins in January with a release in April or May? Is there precedence for that time window in console/tech? Any materiel updates on the state of chip and supply shortages, freight costs, and other logistical barriers in the tech space?

We had a factory leak about the shell in like. July or August. The processor was merged into the Linux kernel for software support in September. Nintendo added support for the new I/O system in October.

It's almost certainly already in production if they've finalised drivers and have begun to roll out the software.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

There wasn’t really anything concrete in July about a shell.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Being called something doesn't make it a gimmick. Hybrid is a gimmick, RT is a gimmick, IR motion controls like the Wii, that's a gimmick.

Drake already HAS gimmicks, RT, a 4K handheld, new stuff enabling new games. It doesn't NEED scroll wheel shoulder buttons, so I doubt it will have them.

this is a needless semantic argument. new control options were always gimmicks. that includes dpads and thumbsticks

 

[Serif]

Shoulder buttons absolutely were criticized at first.

Probably when they were introduced in the SNES, doubt that was the case for the GBA.

I think GBA introduced shoulder buttons to enable more complex game controls while avoiding buttons on the front body of the console to keep it 'minimal'. That's just a guess, but it makes sense for the amount of SNES ports that needed more than just A and B.

It really feels like the GBA's pitch was just 'stronger Game Boy / portable SNES' and not much else. It enabled fresh experiences without some other eye-catching hook like two-screens or 3D. I think that was Concernt's point.

Seeing as there are still people who think that the 3DS is just another member of the DS family, I can see why there’s some confusion over what kind of upgrade it’ll be if it comes in the same form factor as Switch.

The GBA is also lumped in as a member of the 'Game Boy' product line (citation: This Iwata Asks, footnote 5. Thanks Wikipedia. But also products like the 'Game Boy Player' which encompasses all games with 'Game Boy' branding). It's evidently considered its 'own thing' as I think Nintendo counts its sales separately, and the GBA formed its own family with the SP and Micro. Though confusingly, the Game Boy Micro is not the 'Game Boy Advance Micro', I'm guessing because by that point the only 'Game Boy' games on store shelves were Advance games.

Continuing the brand name while being its own thing is what I personally expect from Drake.

... I really like the GBA.

 

[kvetcha]

I'm actually curious about that. I own a PS4, it's never been plugged in, and I do not have a gaming PC. I play some mindless phone games, and am working my way through Nier Automata on Switch.

How many people have played a Switch game in the last month? How many have not?

I’m 90 hours into Xenoblade 3. Also play a lot of Picross.

Have Persona 5 and 13 Sentinels still waiting.

 

[MSnap]

I'm actually curious about that. I own a PS4, it's never been plugged in, and I do not have a gaming PC. I play some mindless phone games, and am working my way through Nier Automata on Switch.

How many people have played a Switch game in the last month? How many have not?

I own all 3 major consoles and a decent gaming laptop, but my Switch is the only one I play every day.

 

[curl-6]

I feel like I am starting to warm up to the idea of Switch successor soon.
I am still loving the heck out of my Switch, but whereas last year or earlier this year I was worried about it getting cut short prematurely, it now feels like a 2023 transition would be just right; long enough that it feels like it got to live out its full potential, but not too long as to risk losing their current momentum.

 

[Concernt]

this is a needless semantic argument. new control options were always gimmicks. that includes dpads and thumbsticks

It's not semantics to say they're not comparable to the Wii U GamePad. Wii U GamePad wasn't extra contacts on a PCB, it was an architectural challenge, and a total trainwreck.

The point stands that the leaks already point to "a" gimmick, RT.

There wasn’t really anything concrete in July about a shell.

I don't know, sounds debatable. The same leak discussed what would seem to have been the Splatoon 3 and Pokémon Sc/Vi OLED Models, and a new shell with a different cutout. Concrete? I guess not, yeah. But I personally find it compelling, and given they got the reveal date for the Splatoon 3 model bang on, I am inclined to believe them more than not, unless it's disproven, which could still happen.

Plus, the OS additions and Linux kernel support are entirely concrete. Definitely for Drake? We can't be 100% sure, but I don't see what else it could be.

 

[eye0h]

Anyone have any guesses on the new gimmick?

 

[Concernt]

Anyone have any guesses on the new gimmick?

Raytracing.

 

[MSnap]

Anyone have any guesses on the new gimmick?

You can smell Mario when he exits a pipe

 

[NineTailSage]

I think revisiting this summary of comments from Nintendo should give us a better image of what's probably going on behind the scenes with the company and this new Drake hardware.

For years, Nintendo has largely brushed off talk of a full successor to their wildly successful Switch, but it seems like the company is finally starting to seriously think about what might come next. When asked by Bloomberg about a Switch successor earlier this week, Nintendo president Shuntaro Furukawa declined to comment – a subtle, but perhaps meaningful change from the past, when he would typically outright deny a new system was forthcoming. Meanwhile, during an investors Q&A, Furukawa admitted smoothly transitioning from the Switch to a new platform was a “major concern” for the company

Nintendo Concerned About Switch Successor Shift, Next 12 Months’ Lineup Not Fully Revealed

After years of brushing questions off, it seems Nintendo is finally thinking seriously about a Switch successor.

wccftech.com

 

[Sol]

I feel like I am starting to warm up to the idea of Switch successor soon.
I am still loving the heck out of my Switch, but whereas last year or earlier this year I was worried about it getting cut short prematurely, it now feels like a 2023 transition would be just right; long enough that it feels like it got to live out its full potential, but not too long as to risk losing their current momentum.

The software release cadence certainly suggests something is probably coming.

• Next Zelda gets continually delayed
• New Mario nowhere to be found
• Second new Pokemon gen launching on existing hardware

Last time things looked like this was late 2016, months before the Spring 2017 launch of the Switch.

 

[karmitt]

The software release cadence certainly suggests something is probably coming.

• Next Zelda gets continually delayed
• New Mario nowhere to be found
• Second new Pokemon gen launching on existing hardware

Last time things looked like this was late 2016, months before the Spring 2017 launch of the Switch.

If the new hardware doesn’t launch with or before Zelda I’ll be incredibly shocked. It’s weird how many people seem to accept that as a totally reasonable outcome.

If it happens, my gut feel is the device as we know it in this thread has seen major changes and won’t hit before 2024.

 

[Raccoon]

If it happens, my gut feel is the device as we know it in this thread has seen major changes and won’t hit before 2024.

this is the timeline I was wondering about a few days ago

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

It's not semantics to say they're not comparable to the Wii U GamePad. Wii U GamePad wasn't extra contacts on a PCB, it was an architectural challenge, and a total trainwreck.

The point stands that the leaks already point to "a" gimmick, RT.


I don't know, sounds debatable. The same leak discussed what would seem to have been the Splatoon 3 and Pokémon Sc/Vi OLED Models, and a new shell with a different cutout. Concrete? I guess not, yeah. But I personally find it compelling, and given they got the reveal date for the Splatoon 3 model bang on, I am inclined to believe them more than not, unless it's disproven, which could still happen.

Plus, the OS additions and Linux kernel support are entirely concrete. Definitely for Drake? We can't be 100% sure, but I don't see what else it could be.

The Linux thing is a separate matter, not really directly confirming anything of DRAKE switch backplate

 

[MP!]

I'm actually curious about that. I own a PS4, it's never been plugged in, and I do not have a gaming PC. I play some mindless phone games, and am working my way through Nier Automata on Switch.

How many people have played a Switch game in the last month? How many have not?

I'm working my way through bayonetta
I was playing bioshock
I have a lot of backlog stuff to get through on switch

I have a PS5 and 100%ed GT7... but haven't touched it since (unless you count the updates which I also completed)

 

[karmitt]

this is the timeline I was wondering about a few days ago

I get it, but it’s just far too pessimistic of a concern for me to have at this date. I’ll tackle it if it happens, but this thread will probably be a bit of a mess lol

 

[ILikeFeet]

If the new hardware doesn’t launch with or before Zelda I’ll be incredibly shocked. It’s weird how many people seem to accept that as a totally reasonable outcome.

If it happens, my gut feel is the device as we know it in this thread has seen major changes and won’t hit before 2024.

launching without a headliner would be asinine. it doesn't matter how exciting the hardware is, you need some software to sell that

 

[karmitt]

launching without a headliner would be asinine. it doesn't matter how exciting the hardware is, you need some software to sell that

If it’s not Zelda it’s something else, but Zelda did so much for the Switch launch that I can’t imagine why they’d not just continue to delay it until the dates aligned.

I do consider TLOU2 launching on PS4 and PS5 launching 5 months later, but something about the situations don’t feel equivalent. Perhaps it’s the broader appeal of the title, the franchise history with cross-gen releases, the reported target dates for third parties being fairly aligned - a little bit of all of it.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

I'm working my way through bayonetta
I was playing bioshock
I have a lot of backlog stuff to get through on switch

I have a PS5 and 100%ed GT7... but haven't touched it since (unless you count the updates which I also completed)

Update speed run mode

 

[niconiconick64]

I hope analog triggers are not coming back.

i get why youre saying that BUT:
do u even racing games?

 

[ILikeFeet]

i get why youre saying that BUT:
do u even racing games?

this is why arcade racers are better. who needs variable throttle when full is the only option

 

[karmitt]

this is why arcade racers are better. who needs variable throttle when full is the only option

I agree 200cc was a mistake.

 

[ertaboy356b]

Most people seem convinced that Drake will support backwards compatibility. Where does this confidence come from? I don't know of any irrefutable fact which confirms it. I feel that in this stage of the games industry it is almost expected for a new device to have some BC, but is there any evidence explicitly declaring this?

Miyamoto had confirmed this although not in a sneaky way.

“In the past, we provided a service known as the ‘Virtual Console’ that allowed users to play older video games on new consoles with newer hardware,” he said (translated by VGC contributor Robert Sephazon). “As long as the hardware remained unchanged, those games could continue to be played.

“However, the publishing rights to video games are complicated, and we have said that we would only add titles after securing the necessary rights.

“Of course, video games developed for dedicated consoles were created in different development environments for each console,” Miyamoto continued. “As a result, when the hardware changed, the development environment could not necessarily be reused, and so the video games that had been released on older consoles could not be played on newer consoles without additional modification.

“Recently, however, the development environment has increasingly become more standardised, and we now have an environment that allows players to enjoy older video games on newer consoles more easily than ever before.”

Miyamoto concluded: “However, Nintendo’s strength is in creating new video game experiences, so when we release new hardware in the future, we would like to showcase unique video games that could not be created with pre-existing hardware.”

 

[John Omaha]

i get why youre saying that BUT:
do u even racing games?

Not enough to ruin the controller for every other genre.

 

[MP!]

Update speed run mode

I’m not much of a time trial guy
Though I could do more sport mode I guess
I’m not very fond of how they host races at specific times

 

[Sol]

Has there been any new info suggesting a manufacturing node?

Is TSMC's N4P 5nm node the most likely here?

 

[Tentacle-tropes]

I think revisiting this summary of comments from Nintendo should give us a better image of what's probably going on behind the scenes with the company and this new Drake hardware.

For years, Nintendo has largely brushed off talk of a full successor to their wildly successful Switch, but it seems like the company is finally starting to seriously think about what might come next. When asked by Bloomberg about a Switch successor earlier this week, Nintendo president Shuntaro Furukawa declined to comment – a subtle, but perhaps meaningful change from the past, when he would typically outright deny a new system was forthcoming. Meanwhile, during an investors Q&A, Furukawa admitted smoothly transitioning from the Switch to a new platform was a “major concern” for the company

Nintendo Concerned About Switch Successor Shift, Next 12 Months’ Lineup Not Fully Revealed

After years of brushing questions off, it seems Nintendo is finally thinking seriously about a Switch successor.

wccftech.com

We’ve been over the “major concern” comment before and that isn’t even remotely what he said:

We have already announced some software titles that will be released through next spring. Unlike in the past, even though Nintendo Switch has gone through five years since its launch, there is still a rich lineup of new titles to be released. The biggest reason for this is that, thanks to the smooth launch of Nintendo Switch itself, we have been able to concentrate our development resources on one platform. On the other hand, looking back on past experiences of generational change such as the change from the Wii and Nintendo DS eras, we recognize that one of our tasks is ensuring the transition to future generations of hardware is as smooth as possible. To that end, we are focusing on building long-term relationships with our consumers (through Nintendo Accounts). While continuing to release new Nintendo Switch software for consumers to enjoy, we aim to maintain relationships across hardware generations through services that utilize Nintendo Accounts and by providing opportunities for them to experience our IP through other non-gaming channels.

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2022/220511_2e.pdf
And, I don’t think Furukawa’s declining to comment is much different then earlier in the year. This one is in May of this year:
https://www.thegamer.com/nintendo-president-new-switch-hardware-no-comment/
They then in August said this:
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/nintendo-will-not-be-announcing-new-hardware-this-year/

Nintendo is absolutely thinking about what comes next since it should be time for them to release such a product. Trying to dig into their comments about it though is a meaningless endeavor. Since more often then not it just amounts to what the reader wants to see.

 

[Terrell]

Not enough to ruin the controller for every other genre.

I'm sure PS4 and PS5 owners were equally livid about how analog triggers "ruined" the DualShock 4 and DualSense, right?

.... RIGHT?!

 

[John Omaha]

I'm sure PS4 and PS5 owners were equally livid about how analog triggers "ruined" the DualShock 4 and DualSense, right?

.... RIGHT?!

I know it’s not a popular opinion because analog triggers are the standard. People don’t even question it because they’ve been on (non-Nintendo) controllers for what feels like forever in the tech world, and work well enough. I suspect there are several people ITT that don’t even play anything that requires analog triggers, but are requesting them for Nintendo’s next hardware just because the other consoles have them.

When you think about it though, you realize that they’re only useful in two genres (racing and flight sims), and hinder your performance in all other genres because of the longer range of motion. The fact that Microsoft and Sony are now selling $150-$200 controllers that let you (kind of) disable them as a feature just goes to show how mediocre they are as an input method.

I’ll also add that not having to press down a trigger makes it a lot more comfortable to quickly rock your index fingers back and forth between two digital shoulder buttons.

 

[ertaboy356b]

I know it’s not a popular opinion because analog triggers are the standard. People don’t even question it because they’ve been on (non-Nintendo) controllers for what feels like forever in the tech world, and work well enough. I suspect there are several people ITT that don’t even play anything that requires analog triggers, but are requesting them for Nintendo’s next hardware just because the other consoles have them.

When you think about it though, you realize that they’re only useful in two genres (racing and flight sims), and hinder your performance in all other genres because of the longer range of motion. The fact that Microsoft and Sony are now selling $150-$200 controllers that let you (kind of) disable them as a feature just goes to show how mediocre they are as an input method.

I’ll also add that not having to press down a trigger makes it a lot more comfortable to quickly rock your index fingers back and forth between two digital shoulder buttons.

Didn't Nintendo patented a new shoulder button design a while back? I wonder what came of it.

 

[John Omaha]

Didn't Nintendo patented a new shoulder button design a while back? I wonder what came of it.

Yes, the scrolling shoulder buttons. The concept is pretty intriguing.

 

[ertaboy356b]

Yes, the scrolling shoulder buttons. Perhaps we’ll see them in some form on Drake.

Yeah, I'm sure it'll be on Drake since Nintendo needs "a new way to play" in order to move a generation.

 

[ffr48]

Would you guys accept a paid enhancement patch for Drake, such as a dlss raytracing patch for botw?

 

[Hermii]

Accomplished through an onboard Tegra X1 locked at original clockspeeds

While it wouldn’t be bad for the consumer, cause it would achieve perfect bc, assuming Drake is 8nm, there is no way they can fit such a huge chip+ a tx1.

I’m sure the engineers at Nvidia are perfectly capable of finding a more elegant solution.

 

[Hermii]

Would you guys accept a paid enhancement patch for Drake, such as a dlss raytracing patch for botw?

Nope, I would play the original.

 

[Serif]

While it wouldn’t be bad for the consumer, cause it would achieve perfect bc, assuming Drake is 8nm, there is no way they can fit such a huge chip+ a tx1.

I’m sure the engineers at Nvidia are perfectly capable of finding a more elegant solution.

'Twas a joke.

 

[Cybergatuno]

Accomplished through an onboard Tegra X1 locked at original clockspeeds

While it wouldn’t be bad for the consumer, cause it would achieve perfect bc, assuming Drake is 8nm, there is no way they can fit such a huge chip+ a tx1.

I’m sure the engineers at Nvidia are perfectly capable of finding a more elegant solution.

I don't quite believe Nintendo/Nvidia would make another Frankenstein as the WiiU, but I could see the potential.

The Tegra X1 was initially meant for the automotive sector and included a lot of stuff that Nintendo never used, I believe, most notably the 4 little cores.

Drake's A78s could probably emulate the performance profile of the Switch's A57. A lot of the IO controllers and plumbing would be shared. What if they included in Drake only the GPU part of TX1 that's relevant for BC?

They would have to port it to Drake's architectural node, but it would bring perfect native backwards compatibility.

 

[karmitt]

Would you guys accept a paid enhancement patch for Drake, such as a dlss raytracing patch for botw?

I would but I’m hopeless and I think it’s a horrible idea.

The game already holds its $60 value; asking somebody to buy it for $60 after Drake launches and then pay another fee for the Drake patch? Nah.

 

[Terrell]

I know it’s not a popular opinion because analog triggers are the standard. People don’t even question it because they’ve been on (non-Nintendo) controllers for what feels like forever in the tech world, and work well enough.

When you think about it though, you realize that they’re only useful in two genres (racing and flight sims), and hinder your performance in all other genres because of the longer range of motion. The fact that Microsoft and Sony are now selling $150-$200 controllers that let you disable them as a feature just goes to show how mediocre they are as an input method.

Or it shows that they can fleece extra cash out of people who mostly only care about that from a non-accessibility angle, the extremely vocal minority.

I always considered a combination of software and hardware based solution to be the right one, that ANY push of the analog triggers made it active (so no "travel" just to activate the input), but you actually had to put a little oomph (not too much) into the press as to prevent accidental activation.
Not sure what I think of the scroll-wheel buttons, but that could be another option.

 

[arsen]

Would you guys accept a paid enhancement patch for Drake, such as a dlss raytracing patch for botw?

I'd expect dlss/resolution/framerate patch for old games, afaik reflection raytracing would require a massive rework on game textures.

They could do lighting/shadow raytracing but meh, wouldn't pay for that.

 

[Serif]

I would but I’m hopeless and I think it’s a horrible idea.

The game already holds its $60 value; asking somebody to buy it for $60 after Drake launches and then pay another fee for the Drake patch? Nah.

Games still doing well at $60 is also why I remain unconvinced of the (irritating) hypothetical that "Nintendo won't do BC because they want to repackage every Switch game as a full price Deluxe Switch 2 edition".

As if BC would stop them from doing that eventually, heh.

I expect free patches for evergreens like BotW and down the line, a BotW Deluxe edition with the DLC included and more in depth changes like texture and model upgrades. And since I am also hopeless I would buy this too.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I'm sure PS4 and PS5 owners were equally livid about how analog triggers "ruined" the DualShock 4 and DualSense, right?

.... RIGHT?!

I'd be livid if I had to play on a dualshock