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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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niconiconick64 said:
Also, how likely is nintendo to actually ship the thing with new firmware instead of re-utilizing the current switch's ?
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I mean, it's different hardware, so 100% it will not be what's there today? If you mean if the OS will be radically redesigned or offer new features, that's something else.
 
karmitt said:
I’d see them hitting 4K/60fps before I see them doing anything else to the visuals for TotK. I won’t be shocked if they can’t hit it, but I am expecting it.
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I'm thinking... hoping they will have multiple modes. Performance and quality modes. It would be nice to see a 1080p-1440p with DLSS
 
ShaunSwitch said:
I don't imagine a lot of people will agree with me here but I think Nintendo may even have added RTXGI to the Drake version of ToTK.

I know many of you have seen unnoficial CEMU RTX patches for BOTW and how they utterly transform the game. Now imagine the contrast between the Mariko and Drake versions of this new title if Nintendo internal studios implement Ray tracing.

It would be such a massive difference when shown side by side combined with DLSS that I think everyone who sees it will want the new hardware as soon as possible.

What better way to launch your new powerful hardware? The only question is whether they could achieve it in the time frame given. Zelda has had several delays, maybe one was for this purpose and they ring fenced a team to work on this aspect. Who knows? But a fan can dream and if I really wanted to land my new console with a huge impact and have everyone chomping at the bit for one, this is exactly how I would do it.
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GI is something that has to be accounted for early on, IMO. you should art you assets a particular way depending on your lighting model. for that reason, I'm not expecting full GI, but something like RTAO and RT shadows
 
ILikeFeet said:
GI is something that has to be accounted for early on, IMO. you should art you assets a particular way depending on your lighting model. for that reason, I'm not expecting full GI, but something like RTAO and RT shadows
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Yeah, I think the RTXGI patches for BotW emu look pretty awful for this reason.
 
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the most exciting news i've seen in months is even the smallest slither of a rumour that Ridge Racer 8 wasn't cancelled or has been revived and will be on Drake, maybe even exclusive. RIDGE RAAACER!
 
When I googled I wound up with a 4chan post from Saturday which didn't mention Switch as one of the platforms. Can't say I have much faith in it being true anyway.
 
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bloopland33 said:
New DF direct where they talk about last week’s Direct. I don’t have time to check right now but I wonder if they speculate about hardware at all when discussing the new Zelda date.
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Listening to it now, Nintendo Direct talk starts at 1:10. The possibility comes up of it being a dual release again but I haven't heard the rest yet.

And Alex, they are multi angle billboards! Similar to Wing Commander 1 sprites but have a brief fade between two angles when necessary.
 
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niconiconick64 said:
I think this has been discussed a couple pages ago but anyways:
How likely is this upcoming device to support not gigabit ethernet (let's be real here) but at the very least, ~200MBit/s+ down wifi (which most phones nowadays already do when connected to a 5GHz wifi network).
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The Switch can probably already do this. The thing is getting a good network test is difficult, and I think it's widely suspected the eShop servers are throttling downloads.
niconiconick64 said:
Also, how likely is nintendo to actually ship the thing with new firmware instead of re-utilizing the current switch's ?
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Depends on your definition of "new". The likelihood of having at least somewhat separate firmware builds from the current Switch is high, but there's a lot of reason to think they'll probably just keep going with the current codebase.
niconiconick64 said:
Hopefully they finally fix that miserable networking. It's 2022, I shouldn't be setting up DMZ for a wireless device, let alone messing with ports.
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This is probably more of a netcode problem than an OS problem.
 
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niconiconick64 said:
I think this has been discussed a couple pages ago but anyways:
How likely is this upcoming device to support not gigabit ethernet (let's be real here) but at the very least, ~200MBit/s+ down wifi (which most phones nowadays already do when connected to a 5GHz wifi network).

Also, how likely is nintendo to actually ship the thing with new firmware instead of re-utilizing the current switch's ?
Hopefully they finally fix that miserable networking. It's 2022, I shouldn't be setting up DMZ for a wireless device, let alone messing with ports.
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What's the best mobile WiFi antenna that Switch could get on the market versus what they're likely to get?

IIRC MVG did a separate video going into detail about the OLED Dock ethernet port, and came to the conclusion that because the USB-C is transferring video and audio signal to the HDMI port and bandwidth also has to account for any USB devices and the ethernet cable which might also be the reason why speeds are being throttled (in addition to the eshop servers; someone else mentioned it was apparently "responsible" to ensure consistent connections for all users but I only call bs because that sounds like a stupid ass thing Nintendo would do and just...why is it so hard to get anything over 100MB, let alone 35MB?)

I think if any meaningful connection speeds improvements could be made, it depends on if they'll actually do better in maintaining the USB-C standard and whatever the latest protocol is that might allow for 4K content and additional wired internet speeds.
 
Brofield said:
IIRC MVG did a separate video going into detail about the OLED Dock ethernet port, and came to the conclusion that because the USB-C is transferring video and audio signal to the HDMI port and bandwidth also has to account for any USB devices and the ethernet cable which might also be the reason why speeds are being throttled (in addition to the eshop servers; someone else mentioned it was apparently "responsible" to ensure consistent connections for all users but I only call bs because that sounds like a stupid ass thing Nintendo would do and just...why is it so hard to get anything over 100MB, let alone 35MB?)
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Every digital store front throttles, every single one. It's just a question of how much, and when, and how close you are to the server. Apple is one of the biggest and oldest streaming media services on the planet, Google owns a massive cloud operation, same for Microsoft, and while Sony has never quite managed to get their own streaming operation going, they have absolutely been willing to throw money at this problem.

Nintendo neither has the pre-existing infrastructure nor the sorts of media businesses that make it easy to amortize the costs of the shop, and because the games are generally smaller (a side effect of physical releases on cartridges), they can get away with a fraction of the investment.
 
One should also keep in mind that, with minimal RAM available to the microkernel OS on Switch, write speed on internal/microSD storage is also a bottleneck there, as without more RAM to temporarily hold downloaded data, you cannot receive more data than the hardware can write or that RAM can stow until the write is completed.
 
oldpuck said:
Every digital store front throttles, every single one. It's just a question of how much, and when, and how close you are to the server. Apple is one of the biggest and oldest streaming media services on the planet, Google owns a massive cloud operation, same for Microsoft, and while Sony has never quite managed to get their own streaming operation going, they have absolutely been willing to throw money at this problem.

Nintendo neither has the pre-existing infrastructure nor the sorts of media businesses that make it easy to amortize the costs of the shop, and because the games are generally smaller (a side effect of physical releases on cartridges), they can get away with a fraction of the investment.
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I guess that is what infuriates me most. No matter how much I enjoy Nintendo products, they simply do not feel a need to improve their online standards and capabilities beyond the bare minimum.
 
Brofield said:
I guess that is what infuriates me most. No matter how much I enjoy Nintendo products, they simply do not feel a need to improve their online standards and capabilities beyond the bare minimum.
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I agree that Nintendo doesn't prioritize online at all. But my point was that it costs more for Nintendo to run an online presence than it costs for any of the others. Microsoft is one of the biggest technology companies in the world with a huge cloud infrastructure, and Sony one of the largest media companies and significant tech companies in the world. They can essentially run their online operations "at cost", but Nintendo has to pay third party companies which take a cut.

Nintendo really needs to beef up their online services, but making the eShop faster is likely the lowest priority, especially when their games are smaller anyway.
 
oldpuck said:
I agree that Nintendo doesn't prioritize online at all. But my point was that it costs more for Nintendo to run an online presence than it costs for any of the others. Microsoft is one of the biggest technology companies in the world with a huge cloud infrastructure, and Sony one of the largest media companies and significant tech companies in the world. They can essentially run their online operations "at cost", but Nintendo has to pay third party companies which take a cut.

Nintendo really needs to beef up their online services, but making the eShop faster is likely the lowest priority, especially when their games are smaller anyway.
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I’m not sure I understand how Sony is in a different position. Microsoft having Azure isn’t comparable to Sony’s situation.

Unless I’m mistaken, they’d probably be using GCP, Azure or AWS infra, the same as Nintendo would. Feel free to correct me if this isn’t the case, but Nintendo gets no pass whatsoever from me. They’re just choosing not to focus on this space in the same way.
 
karmitt said:
I’m not sure I understand how Sony is in a different position. Microsoft having Azure isn’t comparable to Sony’s situation.

Unless I’m mistaken, they’d probably be using GCP, Azure or AWS infra, the same as Nintendo would. Feel free to correct me if this isn’t the case,
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Sony's infrastructure is hand built - it had to be, it started before AWS did - though I believe they have used various partner providers for their data centers, but that's not what I was referring to.

Sony has invested huge amounts of money into PSN in order to build PSN into a media streaming platform. Sony is one of the Big Five movie studios and the only one without a dedicated streaming service but not for lack of trying. They started Video Unlimited in 2006 and their music streaming platform Music Unlimited not long after - Sony is also the largest music publisher and the second largest record label in the world - which eventually became Sony Entertainment Network which became the Play Station Network.

They also did the reverse, trying to launch a stream service off the back of the Playstation Network, using the media delivery platform they'd already built to launch Playstation Vue, Crackle, and I don't know how many streaming services in India. Sony wanted to do for streaming media with the playstation the same thing they had done for DVDs and BluRay's - own the platform that people use to play the media that Sony also owns, and PSN was the way to do it.

They've never managed to make it work both because it's a brutal environment, and because Sony understands streaming worse than Nintendo understands Online Gaming, but it means that PSN and the store with it have received more investment in it's infrastructure than makes financial sense for Playstation alone
karmitt said:
but Nintendo gets no pass whatsoever from me. They’re just choosing not to focus on this space in the same way.
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Yeah, absolutely. As a consumer, you should absolutely not care about the situation on the ground, just the product, and you are absolutely correct that Nintendo has generally failed to appreciate the importance online. But we're in the technology thread :). Speculating about the tech and market forces is part of what we do, and Sony and Microsoft have a set of financial incentives and technical advantages that Nintendo simply does not have in the online space.
 
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EAs Origin service has the fastest download speeds I have ever seen and they are not a massive cloud company. Their incentive is microtransactions.
 
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I was firmly against a successor for the last two years as I did not want the original Switch cut short prematurely, but now that we're talking a 2023 release I think I'd actually prefer it to be a successor with a PS4-to-PS5 style soft transition, as making such hardware a mere "Pro" feels like wasted potential, particularly 6 years into the base model's life.

So long as Switch 1 isn't immediately abandoned and still gets decent support through next year, I'd be happy. 6 years as a flagship as 1-2 years of cross-gen is enough for me to feel like I got all I wanted from the original Switch.
 
curl-6 said:
I was firmly against a successor for the last two years as I did not want the original Switch cut short prematurely, but now that we're talking a 2023 release I think I'd actually prefer it to be a successor with a PS4-to-PS5 style soft transition, as making such hardware a mere "Pro" feels like wasted potential, particularly 6 years into the base model's life.

So long as Switch 1 isn't immediately abandoned and still gets decent support through next year, I'd be happy. 6 years as a flagship as 1-2 years of cross-gen is enough for me to feel like I got all I wanted from the original Switch.
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I can definitely relate to this. I very adamantly wanted a Switch Pro or equivalent last year or this year, but now I don't know what I even want
 
The moment the pandemic happened and SWOLED was introduced the idea of a "Switch Pro" died. Whatever Nintendo is gonna introduce next is gonna be the Switch successor for 99% of the market.
 
Rogue Agent said:
They did humour it and it was a really short discussion regarding that.
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They probably feel silly after what they said after the second story trailer considering it ended up being obviously FSR to clean up IQ after it was used in Xenoblade Chronicles 3.
 
Polygon said:
They probably feel silly after what they said after the second story trailer considering it ended up being obviously FSR to clean up IQ after it was used in Xenoblade Chronicles 3.
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Xenoblade doesn't use FSR. It uses a custom scaler presumably built by Monolith.

It can be difficult at times to tell if something is actually using FSR, because there are reasons the code may be present, but not in use, but disproving its use is often quite simple because using the code without disclosing it would be a license violation.
 
Cybergatuno said:
Hi guys,

First post here :cool:

It seems NVidia is adding support for Tegra239 into the Linux Kernel.


Well, this seems like a confirmation.
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I’m gonna Ignore the Linux stuff, and focus on one aspect: if real then this has 8 cores as a single cluster.

This would mean 8 homogeneous CPU cores.

Perhaps… the A78C as that’s the bare minimum for a single 8 core cluster.


How did you even find this?
 
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This would also put into question the reality of using 8nm... 8 A78C cores + 1536 Cuda cores, 48 Tensor cores and 12 RT cores + 128bit memory... That would make the clocks so strained that it calls into question why the SoC is so big, as the bigger the SoC, the bigger the cost.

I'm pretty sure at this point we are looking at 5nm Samsung, 6nm TSMC or Nvidia's custom TSMC 4N, this is actually huge information IMO.
 
Z0m3le said:
This would also put into question the reality of using 8nm... 8 A78C cores + 1536 Cuda cores, 48 Tensor cores and 12 RT cores + 128bit memory... That would make the clocks so strained that it calls into question why the SoC is so big, as the bigger the SoC, the bigger the cost.

I'm pretty sure at this point we are looking at 5nm Samsung, 6nm TSMC or Nvidia's custom TSMC 4N, this is actually huge information IMO.
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It wouldn’t be Samsung.

Since nvdiia has no other products there.

And since they are moving to TSMC, it would be at TSMC.

If they had like a data center GPU, I’d say that it’s there. But because they don’t have anything at 5nm SEC the chances of that would be so low I personally don’t entertain it.


7nm or 4N though? I can see those. And the derivatives/derived.
 
Terrell said:
I dunno, did they make a Shield with a Xavier chip? This also makes mention of T194 in the code sample, or is that just me reading too much into it?
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They made a Jetson board with Tegra NX that runs Linux
ReddDreadtheLead said:
It wouldn’t be Samsung.

Since nvdiia has no other products there.

And since they are moving to TSMC, it would be at TSMC.

If they had like a data center GPU, I’d say that it’s there. But because they don’t have anything at 5nm SEC the chances of that would be so low I personally don’t entertain it.


7nm or 4N though? I can see those. And the derivatives/derived.
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They are producing Orin, and a lot of 5nm has freed up, it's a huge jump up from 8nm, and I'd suggest 6nm TSMC is more likely than 7nm TSMC.
 
Z0m3le said:
They made a Jetson board with Tegra NX that runs Linux

They are producing Orin, and a lot of 5nm has freed up, it's a huge jump up from 8nm, and I'd suggest 6nm TSMC is more likely than 7nm TSMC.
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ORIN isn’t compatible with SEC 5.

Nor is it the same product as Drake.


And Ampere already exists at TSMC. And the comment of some stuff being “backported” from Lovelace would have only happened if at TSMC.
 
Terrell said:
I dunno, did they make a Shield with a Xavier chip? This also makes mention of T194 in the code sample, or is that just me reading too much into it?
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No. But the Jetson AGX Xavier and Jetson Xavier NX are running on Linux.

Jetson AGX Orin and Jetson Orin NX are also running on Linux, but use T234, not T239.
 
I'm not sure what to think after reading the last few posts, it's nice to have something seemingly confirmed but is it actually good news for Drake's possible specs?
I wish I had the required technical insight
 
kvetcha said:
this is gold, @Bonejack! gold!
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DuckTales-gif-uncle-scrooge-mcduck-37819935-245-188.gif
 
L_esson said:
I'm not sure what to think after reading the last few posts, it's nice to have something seemingly confirmed but is it actually good news for Drake's possible specs?
I wish I had the required technical insight
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8 CPU cores is what was expected, but there was reason to believe it might be difficult to achieve that AND 12SMs (which we know from the hack) on the rumored process node which was Samsung 8nm.

So this information confirming 8 CPU cores either says that it wasn't a problem getting that on Samsung 8nm, or they're not using Samsung 8nm which would be very good news. Either way, good news.
 
L_esson said:
I'm not sure what to think after reading the last few posts, it's nice to have something seemingly confirmed but is it actually good news for Drake's possible specs?
I wish I had the required technical insight
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8 CPU cores in a single cluster points to the best possible configuration for Switch "2", basically we are somehow in a new era for Nintendo, where they actually want to compete with technology, 8 cores of one of the fastest ARM chips available is amazing IMO. It's something I've been saying they needed to do because it has become the standard in this industry for the past 10+ years to have 8 cores for game developers, and here it is.
 
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