We have less hard data on the CPU but it will definitely be an architectural bump, and likely more cores. Whether it has faster clocks remains to be seen.Hey guys, I have a couple of questions. We know that this next system will have DLSS and be a 4k system in a sense.
Okay we know the GPU will get a considerable boost. But what about the CPU?
Depends on how heavy Nintendo makes those games. It seems highly likely that a BotW level game engineered for it would run at 60fpsWill that get a considerable boost? Will it be capable of 60fps for all of Nintendo's first party games?
And will it be able to potentially run some third party games at 60fps?
Forgive me if some of this have been answered already. I don't follow this thread closely.
you answer to the 60fps questions is always "do the devs want 60fps?"Hey guys, I have a couple of questions. We know that this next system will have DLSS and be a 4k system in a sense. Okay we know the GPU will get a considerable boost. But what about the CPU? Will that get a considerable boost? Will it be capable of 60fps for all of Nintendo's first party games? And will it be able to potentially run some third party games at 60fps?
Forgive me if some of this have been answered already. I don't follow this thread closely.
An overclocked Mariko with the right tweaks can run first and third party games at 60 FPS.Will it be capable of 60fps for all of Nintendo's first party games? And will it be able to potentially run some third party games at 60fps?
6nm? laaame. How much power savings is that? Not much.Rumours from DigiTimes and the poster mentioned by fffr48 and fwd_bwd mention TSMC's N6 process node is being used.
I'd argue that TSMC's N5 process node could theoretically allow Sony to die shrink the PlayStation 5's APU to a significantly smaller size, allowing Sony to significantly shrink the console.
But that's not happening with the new PlayStation 5 models releasing in Australia.
Do you know any games in development that will run natively on Drake/Switch4k, while only existing on the cloud eShop on OG switch?For clarity: I know of exclusives, yes; but I also know of games that are coming to Switch OG but have builds on the Switch 4K DLSS kits. These games (since they are releasing on Switch OG) are planned by first half 2023 regardless of Switch 4K hardware release timing.
I wouldn't hold my breath on official 4K Nintendo anything for the foreseeable future. But that does not necessarily mean that whatever bump in hardware the "Pro" revision gets over what's available will be seen as modest.
N6 promises no power savings, only transistor density improvements.6nm? laaame. How much power savings is that? Not much.
Sony could use that 5nm and make a portable PS5 that it could make it formidable against series s.
I don't think most people here even expect most games to output 4K, but around 1440pI wouldn't hold my breath on official 4K Nintendo anything for the foreseeable future. But that does not necessarily mean that whatever bump in hardware the "Pro" revision gets over what's available will be seen as modest.
I wouldn't hold my breath on official 4K Nintendo anything for the foreseeable future. But that does not necessarily mean that whatever bump in hardware the "Pro" revision gets over what's available will be seen as modest.
Since the general consensus is somewhere between PS4 and XSX, 4K rendering, while technically possible, will be less likely and very game dependent.Why? Weβve only ever had messaging citing 4K and DLSS; Why would we start doubting itβs going to hit 4K now? I thought Breath of the Wild 2 on better hardware + DLSS sounded very plausibleβ¦
Elden Ring and Read Dead Redemption 2 would be incredible.I think a huge Drake launch title would be Elden Ring.
I'm kidding about a portable PS5, though it would surpass Steam Deck. Would be interesting to see them pull off a hybrid though. 4 TFLOPs in docked mode .N6 promises no power savings, only transistor density improvements.
This latest slimmer PS5 revision (slimmer with a lowercase s, not uppercase) is probably another round of optimizing design, shaving off what's unnecessary. A real Slim would likely offer much more significant weight loss.
N5 won't be enough for a portable PS5. Maybe enough for a first shot at a Slim, but I still think that N3 is where the PS5 really gets Slim.
It uses DLSS to hit 2160p. 4K DLSS also has better image quality than native 2160p if the base native resolution is high enough.Since the general consensus is somewhere between PS4 and XSX, 4K rendering, while technically possible, will be less likely and very game dependent.
Additionally, Nintendo so far has outright issued a denial about working on a 4K system, following the Zygna quotes.
So while something like Switch 4K would be a neat name, it is unlikely to be a focal point of Nintendoβs marketing. Though, Iβm prepared to be wrong on that point.
What Iβm curious about is if the Drake Switch will support VRR, as that would help a lot with games pushing the envelope.
4k (2160p) requires 9x the pixels of 720p. I'm not betting native 4k of switch games that are 720p. We're looking at 3.5 TFLOPs (not using architecture) GPU requirement and potentially a bigger bandwidth jump than current Drake, unless there is some serious bottleneck to bandwidth. With DLSS, it's doable. Probably not expecting anything above 1440p native for 720p switch games. I dunno.If games can hit 1080 native they'll hit 4K DLSS
heck ... if games hit 720 native they could hit 4K as well if they felt like it
Yeah Iβm expecting native 720p Switch games to be 1440p DLSS on Drake (which is still a massive leap in IQ over native 720p).4k (2160p) requires 9x the pixels of 720p. I'm not betting native 4k of switch games that are 720p. We're looking at 3.5 TFLOPs (not using architecture) GPU requirement and potentially a bigger bandwidth jump than current Drake, unless there is some serious bottleneck to bandwidth. With DLSS, it's doable. Probably not expecting anything above 1440p native for 720p switch games. I dunno.
If the CPU leap is as large as people are expecting it could run the 60fps Switch games at 144fps. I really hope Nintendo support 120fps when docked on Drake at least for Smash, Splatoon and Mario Kart.With an anticipated $400-450 pricetag I fully expect them to tout 4K and be proud of it. Doesn't matter how many games reach it, DLSS or not. They advertised HD 1080p on the Wii U box. 4K is a sexier bullet point. I think Mario Kart and Smash will hit the full 4K 60 and burn eyeballs in demo kiosks as folks marvel at a tablet as big as a game case pushing those pixels.
Iβm curious why Nintendo outright denied the 4K. Maybe the dev units at the time didnβt have DLSS bailable, making the denial more plausible.It uses DLSS to hit 2160p. 4K DLSS also has better image quality than native 2160p if the base native resolution is high enough.
Make no mistake games designed around the current Switch will have 4K like image quality on Drake. Third party games at 4k DLSS not as concrete (depending on the game) but if they hit a bottle neck theyβll simply target 1800p, 1440p or 1080p DLSS with lower starting resolutions.
In any case Drake is going to be a humongous leap in image quality over the at times 600p docked experiences on Switch and even the 1080p first party games which usually have zero anti aliasing. Wave goodbye to jaggies!
Because they can. I think the report was back in September 2021. I believe this was when Bloomberg reported that 10 developers including Zynga has access to dev kits. Of course Zynga and Nitnendo made public statements, and if true that Zynga got a dev kit, Nintendo for sure chewed them the fuck out over a potential mole. If I was a corporation, I wouldn't give into potential leakers either, even if it was true.Iβm curious why Nintendo outright denied the 4K. Maybe the dev units at the time didnβt have DLSS bailable, making the denial more plausible.
Iβm also curious if DLSS + Drake is performant enough to run ports of PS5/XSX titles at 4K.
I agree that titles designed for the Drake Switch should be able to target 4K.
Maybe I shouldnβt cross Switch 4K of the maybe list, it would be better than βNewβ Switch.
Iβm curious why Nintendo outright denied the 4K. Maybe the dev units at the time didnβt have DLSS bailable, making the denial more plausible.
Iβm also curious if DLSS + Drake is performant enough to run ports of PS5/XSX titles at 4K.
Knowing what we know and the rough performance comparisons coming out, I would expect that it will be more capable of 4K than the PS4 pro. Perhaps the native power will be a little behind that but the maturity of DLSS with hardware acceleration that games in that rough ballpark will run nicely at 4kI agree that titles designed for the Drake Switch should be able to target 4K.
Maybe I shouldnβt cross Switch 4K of the maybe list, it would be better than βNewβ Switch.
David Gibson?Someone here made a comment about this back then and said that they technically they weren't lying with how they worded it.
Sammy 8nm is cheap and plentiful in capacity. that's about it. and since there won't be much life left on it once Nvidia ends ampere, there's not gonna be much room for improvements or cost reductions. even moving a step down to Samsung 5nm would offer room for improvements (though they'd have to deal with Samsung yields). regardless, if Drake was made for 8nm, then there will be costs to remake the chip for any other node regardlessIβm only vaguely familiar with the ideas behind die shrinks from skimming this thread, so correct me if Iβm wrong here but Iβve seen many times folks saying Samsung 8NM (?) as a dead end process. Weβve seen Nintendo make a silent change to the Switch (Mariko?), and weβre predicting several PS5 changes - how can Samsung 8NM be in the cards if it doesnβt afford a roadmap for improvements?
Am I misunderstanding things ? Probably!
If it's above PS4 plus has hardware specifically used for DLSS, it would seem surprising to me if 4K wasn't at least as common for it as 1080p rendering is on base Switch.Since the general consensus is somewhere between PS4 and XSX, 4K rendering, while technically possible, will be less likely and very game dependent.
Don't try to read too much into those denials. It was just them saying "We've got nothing to talk about now! Go away!"Iβm curious why Nintendo outright denied the 4K. Maybe the dev units at the time didnβt have DLSS bailable, making the denial more plausible.
Good post.With an anticipated $400-450 pricetag I fully expect them to tout 4K and be proud of it. Doesn't matter how many games reach it, DLSS or not. They advertised HD 1080p on the Wii U box. 4K is a sexier bullet point. I think Mario Kart and Smash will hit the full 4K 60 and burn eyeballs in demo kiosks as folks marvel at a tablet as big as a game case pushing those pixels.
Normally I would advise folks not to over-read into things and here I am doing the exact same thing. While it is surprising that Nintendo went w/o the usual "no comment", or "nothing to announce" at the time, its not like Drake was canceled.If it's above PS4 plus has hardware specifically used for DLSS, it would seem surprising to me if 4K wasn't at least as common for it as 1080p rendering is on base Switch.
Don't try to read too much into those denials. It was just them saying "We've got nothing to talk about now! Go away!"
This could be anything, unfortunately.During Jeff Grubb's podcast someone mentioned the moderator of the Chinese forum (GraffitiMax?) posting the date 9.25 and nothing else.
Ya, but I'm thirsty, so it intrigues me.This could be anything, unfortunately.
What rumors?New rumors/info trickled in it seems.
Wouldn't it still make sense to DLSS to 4k even if the internal res is 1080p/sub 1440p? Seems like that would still provide a superior image quality vs the alternatives, and outside of bandwidth concerns the performance cost would largely be the same. Maybe I'm not thinking about this correctly though.I would bet not. Think about it this way - min native res for a reasonable 4K upres 1440p. So the game would need to be able to get ported to the PS4 (our rough benchmark) and run at 1440p without any TAA, to get DLSSβd up to 4K
Still up in the air. But I think the possible options with respect to the internal flash storage are eMMC 5.1, UFS 2.1/2.2, UFS 3.0, or UFS 3.1.Was there ever a consensus on what kind of storage Nintendo will probably use or is it still completely up in the air?
Sorry for double posting, but check the OP.What rumors?
Hi Nate, sorry to be this guy but do you know if some Switch legacy titles (like BotW 1 or more recent games) will be receiving upgrades or is it too early to know ? Thanks.For clarity: I know of exclusives, yes; but I also know of games that are coming to Switch OG but have builds on the Switch 4K DLSS kits. These games (since they are releasing on Switch OG) are planned by first half 2023 regardless of Switch 4K hardware release timing.
I doubt he would know that, unless he has a source inside epd.Hi Nate, sorry to be this guy but do you know if some Switch legacy titles (like BotW 1 or more recent games) will be receiving upgrades or is it too early to know ? Thanks.
That's way too much work. They'd just ship the bare board or nondescript boxes style devkits if they really wanted to hide things.another headache inducing borderline conspiracy thought just penetrated my cranium.
Would it theoretically be possible that while there are 4K DLSS devkits in circulation that they will never lead to a full new Switch line product but rather; they use the form factor of the Switch in these devkits but they will ultimately lead to a product that will look and function radically different but which DOES contain similar system specs? (the idea being that third parties could still test their compatibility with the new products' specs under the guise of a new product in the Switch lineup, that way they could have a steady line of games ready for the launch and still hide everything about a possible new device because it would not be neccesarry to register any new licenses yet, it would obfuscaste any hint of the existence and no one could copy their new ideas that way. especially if the new device would inplement ideas from patents that were already awarded earlier)
I wondered something similar before and the leading counter argument was that Nintendo would never abandon their Switch lineup now that is has proven to be so successful but I am not really convinced on that myself especially because with Nintendo such developments are not always a given however logical it would seem to many.
That's way too much work. They'd just ship the bare board or nondescript boxes style devkits if they really wanted to hide things.
Also the whole point of patents is that other people can't copy them without a license.
If the difference is being hidden from the companies, that would be pretty bad. If it's just to try to prevent leaks... well, I think that'd be counterproductive, because we'd just get leaks like "They're taking big steps to prevent leaks". If the product is radically different but the dev kits hide all signs of it, how are they supposed to design for those important differences?another headache inducing borderline conspiracy thought just penetrated my cranium.
Would it theoretically be possible that while there are 4K DLSS devkits in circulation that they will never lead to a full new Switch line product but rather; they use the form factor of the Switch in these devkits but they will ultimately lead to a product that will look and function radically different but which DOES contain similar system specs? (the idea being that third parties could still test their compatibility with the new products' specs under the guise of a new product in the Switch lineup, that way they could have a steady line of games ready for the launch and still hide everything about a possible new device because it would not be neccesarry to register any new licenses yet, it would obfuscaste any hint of the existence and no one could copy their new ideas that way. especially if the new device would inplement ideas from patents that were already awarded earlier)
I would bet not. Think about it this way - min native res for a reasonable 4K upres 1440p. So the game would need to be able to get ported to the PS4 (our rough benchmark) and run at 1440p without any TAA, to get DLSSβd up to 4K
He can known about third party legacy titles like the Doom ports, Skyrim, Fortnite, Minecraft, Mario&Rabbids or dragon ball gamesI doubt he would know that, unless he has a source inside epd.