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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
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Cuzizkool
Shriekbat
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β¦.
D
Deleted member 887
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We have less hard data on the CPU but it will definitely be an architectural bump, and likely more cores. Whether it has faster clocks remains to be seen.
Depends on how heavy Nintendo makes those games. It seems highly likely that a BotW level game engineered for it would run at 60fps
An open question of whether or not 4k60fps is possible and if so, how dramatic the upscaling artifacts are.
There are already 60fps third party games in Switch
But if you mean the various impossible ports, probably. Again, itβs a question if we will see that. I suspect that what will happen is take games that are impossible on the current switch and make 30fps versions possible but that is a somewhat pessimistic view.
you answer to the 60fps questions is always "do the devs want 60fps?"
Serif
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An overclocked Mariko with the right tweaks can run first and third party games at 60 FPS.
While we don't know much about the CPU, I'm more than confident that the final specs will be better than an overclocked Mariko.
The question is if Nintendo and third-parties will patch these games to be 60 FPS on Drake. They may opt for a 4K 30 patch for games like Zelda and Xenoblade, even though I'd prefer a 1080p/1440p 60 fps modes (or ideally - 4K DLSS at 60 fps, with a smaller internal resolution pre-upscale).
I wouldn't hold my breath on official 4K Nintendo anything for the foreseeable future. But that does not necessarily mean that whatever bump in hardware the "Pro" revision gets over what's available will be seen as modest.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
6nm? laaame. How much power savings is that? Not much.
Sony could use that 5nm and make a portable PS5 that it could make it formidable against series s.
Do you know any games in development that will run natively on Drake/Switch4k, while only existing on the cloud eShop on OG switch?
Not asking for names of games.. Just that they exist in cloud and natively for both consoles.
YolkFolk
Tingle
It uses DLSS to achieve 4K where possible. Doesnβt mean all games will be 4K but some will.
Keep up fella.
Look over there
Bob-omb
N6 promises no power savings, only transistor density improvements.6nm? laaame. How much power savings is that? Not much.
Sony could use that 5nm and make a portable PS5 that it could make it formidable against series s.
This latest slimmer PS5 revision (slimmer with a lowercase s, not uppercase) is probably another round of optimizing design, shaving off what's unnecessary. A real Slim would likely offer much more significant weight loss.
N5 won't be enough for a portable PS5. Maybe enough for a first shot at a Slim, but I still think that N3 is where the PS5 really gets Slim.
I don't think most people here even expect most games to output 4K, but around 1440p
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Iβm only vaguely familiar with the ideas behind die shrinks from skimming this thread, so correct me if Iβm wrong here but Iβve seen many times folks saying Samsung 8NM (?) as a dead end process. Weβve seen Nintendo make a silent change to the Switch (Mariko?), and weβre predicting several PS5 changes - how can Samsung 8NM be in the cards if it doesnβt afford a roadmap for improvements?
Am I misunderstanding things ? Probably!
Why? Weβve only ever had messaging citing 4K and DLSS; Why would we start doubting itβs going to hit 4K now? I thought Breath of the Wild 2 on better hardware + DLSS sounded very plausibleβ¦
Am I misunderstanding things ? Probably!
Why? Weβve only ever had messaging citing 4K and DLSS; Why would we start doubting itβs going to hit 4K now? I thought Breath of the Wild 2 on better hardware + DLSS sounded very plausibleβ¦
Foltzie
Uncle Muji
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Since the general consensus is somewhere between PS4 and XSX, 4K rendering, while technically possible, will be less likely and very game dependent.
Additionally, Nintendo so far has outright issued a denial about working on a 4K system, following the Zygna quotes.
So while something like Switch 4K would be a neat name, it is unlikely to be a focal point of Nintendoβs marketing. Though, Iβm prepared to be wrong on that point.
What Iβm curious about is if the Drake Switch will support VRR, as that would help a lot with games pushing the envelope.
Sol
Moblin
Elden Ring and Read Dead Redemption 2 would be incredible.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
I'm kidding about a portable PS5, though it would surpass Steam Deck. Would be interesting to see them pull off a hybrid though. 4 TFLOPs in docked mode
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Deleted member 1324
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It uses DLSS to hit 2160p. 4K DLSS also has better image quality than native 2160p if the base native resolution is high enough.
Make no mistake games designed around the current Switch will have 4K like image quality on Drake. Third party games at 4k DLSS not as concrete (depending on the game) but if they hit a bottle neck theyβll simply target 1800p, 1440p or 1080p DLSS with lower starting resolutions.
In any case Drake is going to be a humongous leap in image quality over the at times 600p docked experiences on Switch and even the 1080p first party games which usually have zero anti aliasing. Wave goodbye to jaggies!
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
4k (2160p) requires 9x the pixels of 720p. I'm not betting native 4k of switch games that are 720p. We're looking at 3.5 TFLOPs (not using architecture) GPU requirement and potentially a bigger bandwidth jump than current Drake, unless there is some serious bottleneck to bandwidth. With DLSS, it's doable. Probably not expecting anything above 1440p native for 720p switch games. I dunno.
Serif
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With an anticipated $400-450 pricetag I fully expect them to tout 4K and be proud of it. Doesn't matter how many games reach it, DLSS or not. They advertised HD 1080p on the Wii U box. 4K is a sexier bullet point. I think Mario Kart and Smash will hit the full 4K 60 and burn eyeballs in demo kiosks as folks marvel at a tablet as big as a game case pushing those pixels.
D
Deleted member 1324
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Yeah Iβm expecting native 720p Switch games to be 1440p DLSS on Drake (which is still a massive leap in IQ over native 720p).
Native 1080p Switch games to be a lower quality 4K DLSS mode on Drake. Then lastly using the extra GPU power of Drake to run Switch games at native 1440p first and then use that as a base to hit a higher quality 4k DLSS output which will have better IQ than native 2160p.
DLSS isnβt free but Drake is a huge technological leap over the Switch we have now.
D
Deleted member 1324
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If the CPU leap is as large as people are expecting it could run the 60fps Switch games at 144fps. I really hope Nintendo support 120fps when docked on Drake at least for Smash, Splatoon and Mario Kart.
Foltzie
Uncle Muji
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Iβm curious why Nintendo outright denied the 4K. Maybe the dev units at the time didnβt have DLSS bailable, making the denial more plausible.
Iβm also curious if DLSS + Drake is performant enough to run ports of PS5/XSX titles at 4K.
I agree that titles designed for the Drake Switch should be able to target 4K.
Maybe I shouldnβt cross Switch 4K of the maybe list, it would be better than βNewβ Switch.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Because they can. I think the report was back in September 2021. I believe this was when Bloomberg reported that 10 developers including Zynga has access to dev kits. Of course Zynga and Nitnendo made public statements, and if true that Zynga got a dev kit, Nintendo for sure chewed them the fuck out over a potential mole. If I was a corporation, I wouldn't give into potential leakers either, even if it was true.
The report, "falsely claims that Nintendo is supplying tools to drive game development for a Nintendo Switch with 4K supportβ and insists that itβs βnot true.β
Someone here made a comment about this back then and said that they technically they weren't lying with how they worded it. They don't have much to lose, especially with it not coming out for more than +1 year later anyway.
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/assets/2787141/nintendo.jpg)
Nintendo categorically denies that a 4K Switch Pro is in development
The report βfalsely claims that Nintendo is supplying toolsβ
www.theverge.com
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Deleted member 887
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Because they didnβt want to suppress hardware sales or lose control of the narrative on a device that wouldnβt release for over a year.
I would bet not. Think about it this way - min native res for a reasonable 4K upres 1440p. So the game would need to be able to get ported to the PS4 (our rough benchmark) and run at 1440p without any TAA, to get DLSSβd up to 4K
Knowing what we know and the rough performance comparisons coming out, I would expect that it will be more capable of 4K than the PS4 pro. Perhaps the native power will be a little behind that but the maturity of DLSS with hardware acceleration that games in that rough ballpark will run nicely at 4k
OP
OP
David Gibson?
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Sammy 8nm is cheap and plentiful in capacity. that's about it. and since there won't be much life left on it once Nvidia ends ampere, there's not gonna be much room for improvements or cost reductions. even moving a step down to Samsung 5nm would offer room for improvements (though they'd have to deal with Samsung yields). regardless, if Drake was made for 8nm, then there will be costs to remake the chip for any other node regardless
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If it's above PS4 plus has hardware specifically used for DLSS, it would seem surprising to me if 4K wasn't at least as common for it as 1080p rendering is on base Switch.
Don't try to read too much into those denials. It was just them saying "We've got nothing to talk about now! Go away!"
mjayer
Bob-omb
Good post.
OP
OP
Although not explicitly related to Nintendo and Nvidia, I find Intel Pathfinder for RISC-V interesting.
So far, AMD, Intel, and Nvidia seem to have been pushing towards one CPU architecture: AMD with x86-64, Intel with RISC-V, and Nvidia with Arm.
I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I do wonder if Nvidia could be interested in designing RISC-V CPU cores and/or joining Intel Pathfinder for RISC-V, especially with Nvidia already using RISC-V for the GPU System Processor (GSP).
So far, AMD, Intel, and Nvidia seem to have been pushing towards one CPU architecture: AMD with x86-64, Intel with RISC-V, and Nvidia with Arm.
I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I do wonder if Nvidia could be interested in designing RISC-V CPU cores and/or joining Intel Pathfinder for RISC-V, especially with Nvidia already using RISC-V for the GPU System Processor (GSP).
Foltzie
Uncle Muji
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Normally I would advise folks not to over-read into things and here I am doing the exact same thing. While it is surprising that Nintendo went w/o the usual "no comment", or "nothing to announce" at the time, its not like Drake was canceled.
TonyBaduy
Moblin
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I guess we will know about some of the games that will have a Drake port very soon, during the next Direct, though I doubt they'll announce it yet unless it's really launching this year (which is unlikely) or very early next year (like in February or March), so we will have to wait to see those versions for a bit more time.
Mario Kart, Xenoblade, Splatoon, and other games that will get DLC through next year will all probably receive a Drake version at launch too.
Mario Kart, Xenoblade, Splatoon, and other games that will get DLC through next year will all probably receive a Drake version at launch too.
I've been lurking the thread for a while but it's been so long and there've been so many topics/leaks and stuff that I forget a lot of stuff discussed here lol. Was there ever a consensus on what kind of storage Nintendo will probably use or is it still completely up in the air?
Magic-Man
Perseus Jackson
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This could be anything, unfortunately.
bixente
Tingle
Ya, but I'm thirsty, so it intrigues me.
Instro
Like Like
Wouldn't it still make sense to DLSS to 4k even if the internal res is 1080p/sub 1440p? Seems like that would still provide a superior image quality vs the alternatives, and outside of bandwidth concerns the performance cost would largely be the same. Maybe I'm not thinking about this correctly though.
OP
OP
Still up in the air. But I think the possible options with respect to the internal flash storage are eMMC 5.1, UFS 2.1/2.2, UFS 3.0, or UFS 3.1.
OP
OP
Sorry for double posting, but check the OP.
Koren Lesthe
Turrican, Terranigma and ESO lover
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Hi Nate, sorry to be this guy but do you know if some Switch legacy titles (like BotW 1 or more recent games) will be receiving upgrades or is it too early to know ? Thanks.
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another headache inducing borderline conspiracy thought just penetrated my cranium.
Would it theoretically be possible that while there are 4K DLSS devkits in circulation that they will never lead to a full new Switch line product but rather; they use the form factor of the Switch in these devkits but they will ultimately lead to a product that will look and function radically different but which DOES contain similar system specs? (the idea being that third parties could still test their compatibility with the new products' specs under the guise of a new product in the Switch lineup, that way they could have a steady line of games ready for the launch and still hide everything about a possible new device because it would not be neccesarry to register any new licenses yet, it would obfuscaste any hint of the existence and no one could copy their new ideas that way. especially if the new device would inplement ideas from patents that were already awarded earlier)
I wondered something similar before and the leading counter argument was that Nintendo would never abandon their Switch lineup now that is has proven to be so successful but I am not really convinced on that myself especially because with Nintendo such developments are not always a given however logical it would seem to many.
Would it theoretically be possible that while there are 4K DLSS devkits in circulation that they will never lead to a full new Switch line product but rather; they use the form factor of the Switch in these devkits but they will ultimately lead to a product that will look and function radically different but which DOES contain similar system specs? (the idea being that third parties could still test their compatibility with the new products' specs under the guise of a new product in the Switch lineup, that way they could have a steady line of games ready for the launch and still hide everything about a possible new device because it would not be neccesarry to register any new licenses yet, it would obfuscaste any hint of the existence and no one could copy their new ideas that way. especially if the new device would inplement ideas from patents that were already awarded earlier)
I wondered something similar before and the leading counter argument was that Nintendo would never abandon their Switch lineup now that is has proven to be so successful but I am not really convinced on that myself especially because with Nintendo such developments are not always a given however logical it would seem to many.
I doubt he would know that, unless he has a source inside epd.
That's way too much work. They'd just ship the bare board or nondescript boxes style devkits if they really wanted to hide things.
Also the whole point of patents is that other people can't copy them without a license.
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Patents and the specifications neccessary in order to stop profiting parties from profiting are weird, it never made sense to me that Game Vice managed to get Nintendo on trial by sueing them for their Joycons (which seemingly existed earlier but ok, in the end Game Vice lost) so patents are like the law, there are so many loopholes and ways to have them open to interpretation that they are anything but a stopgap for competition to profit on anothers ideas. We've seen companies copying Nintendo for ages, it's the timing that matters.
I agree on that the form factor would be more of a hassle though, like you said they could easily just use something else for a form factor.
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If the difference is being hidden from the companies, that would be pretty bad. If it's just to try to prevent leaks... well, I think that'd be counterproductive, because we'd just get leaks like "They're taking big steps to prevent leaks". If the product is radically different but the dev kits hide all signs of it, how are they supposed to design for those important differences?
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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Isnβt DLSS Performance mode 1080p uprezzed to 4k? Itβs kind of the poster child for the technology. 1440p input would equate more closely to DLSS Balanced.
Obviously more input resolution gives better results from a PQ standpoint, but my experiences with DLSS Performance have been excellent.
He can known about third party legacy titles like the Doom ports, Skyrim, Fortnite, Minecraft, Mario&Rabbids or dragon ball games
Koren Lesthe
Turrican, Terranigma and ESO lover
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Iβm still not completely used to the DLSS thing. In DooM Eternal, wether I play in 4k or 1440p with DLSS, I donβt see any difference (I have a 3060 Ti). In Elder Scrolls Online, using the DLSS with a resolution less than 4K makes the image quite blurred already in 1440p no matter what parameter I choose (balanced, quality, performance).
I guess it depends on the games and the type of settings it offers.
I guess it depends on the games and the type of settings it offers.
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