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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

I watched MVG's video and his option 5, an upclocked TX1, seems to be the option he has convinced himself is going to happen because it is the easiest.

From what I've watched, he doesn't seem to think it will happen but I don't even get the point of bringing up the overclocked X1 as a serious possibility. Even from a 'covering all the bases' standpoint.
 
Nintendo just posted the date they will release their FY earnings report.

It's May 9th.

Sadly I don't think this will be meaningful. At the moment I expect a June-August inclusive reveal. Don't even think they'll mention it to investors until the trailer is out.

That said, we could see R&D suddenly fall off a cliff, which would imply a release soon.
 
From what I've watched, he doesn't seem to think it will happen but I don't even get the point of bringing up the overclocked X1 as a serious possibility. Even from a 'covering all the bases' standpoint.
That's where I'm coming from. Giving that option even the light of day is showing preference for that idea. If option 5 were an option we would've seen Nintendo do that already either with the Mariko or OLED.
 
I guess to say something on the mvg thing is that while I do think he's underestimating Nintendo on what their next console is capable of If you ever heard him talk about Nintendo on none scripted videos, he seems pretty much in the "hope for the best but expect the worst" camp for all things nintendo
 
Of all the potential concerns with BC I saw from MVG, even if all your digital downloads tied to your account transfer over just fine and there is 100% BC from whichever of the options, I feel like Nintendo changing the physical format and there just not being a slot for the old physical cards is the most plausible option when it comes to BC issues.

Again, probably not going to be the case but that is what I would worry about more than any of the other potential problems.
 
I haven’t kept up with discussion so I’m fully prepared to be told how what I’m speculating is wrong because of what different insiders have said. Personal guess/wish, Nintendo releases a more powerful Switch revision in fall 2023. It features a more powerful Switch but retains the same form factor. It is advertised more like GBC or Pro model, not a successor to Switch. The more powerful Switch is a generational upgrade, power-wise but is not advertised as the replacement for Switch. It offers full compatibility with OG Switch. Most games created for it are still playable on the OG Switch either natively or via the cloud. OLED drops $50 and phases out OG Switch and an OLED Lite model replaces the $200 Lite. All of these changes occur between fall 2023 and Spring 2024. The official successor to the Switch is released in Fall 2025/Spring 2026. It features a minimal power difference between Switch 2.0. However, it has a lot of new hardware features, form factor and gimmicks to really push the console. Best example I can think of is GBA it featured a major power boost could still play GB games and it had a relatively short life cycle before getting replaced by the DS which had a completely new form factor. Alternatively you could reference GBC, DSi and New 3DS as power upgrades with new visual enhancements but staying within the same family as well as the transition between GCN and Wii or Wii U & Switch for an idea of how the Switch replacement would work.

I personally don’t think Nintendo is going to launch the replacement to OG Switch in Fall 2023-Spring 2024, given TotK and MK8D DLC’s release date. Not to mention the potential of a new 2D Mario and new 2D DK on the horizon. These titles are evergreen titles that will continue to sell for a lengthy period of time after release and I think Nintendo would allow a longer period of time for those titles to breathe. Nintendo is currently earning a ton of revenue off of its large, healthy and active user base and backlog that is purchasing software. Not too mention they are still enhancing their NSO offerings and system support.

Nintendo also struggles with development and game output is rather slow when dealing with major power upgrades. It leads to lagging console and software sales as well as an overall negative reputation for the company which affects its stock price. It’d be much easier for them to do the power boost now as an enhanced Switch than when they are trying to launch a brand new hardware line.

Finally, they have started to more fully realize the strength of their IPs and I imagine are trying to bolster and enhance the amount of IPs that resonate with a larger audience as they can further expand and monetize their IPs not only through games but merchandising, movies, theme parks, etc. This in turn also bolsters their game sales, hardware sales, and overall resilience/mindshare within consumers so that they can weather unpredicted hardships. Having larger, stronger and more diverse variety of games that are well liked and reach mass markets will help keep Nintendo’s awareness for longer. I’d love to see most every IP released that is in Smash have an entry on the Switch.

I could easily see them use titles such as Tomodachi Collection, Rhythm Heaven, New 2D Mario(Super Mario Odyssey 2D?), New 2D Zelda(whether ALBW style, multiplayer oriented like FSA/TFH, or Zelda 2 sidescroller), New DK title, New 3D Mario(Super Mario Galaxy 3?), Star Fox, Kid Icarus: Uprising remake, Metroid 6, Metroid Prime 4, F-Zero, Mother trilogy(or just 3, remake), Golden Sun (new game,remake or compilation by Camelot), Wave Race/Excite/Pilot Wings/Steel Diver sequel compilation, ARMS 2, Next Level Games title (Punchout or Diddy Kong Racing sequel), Paper Mario, Namco PokΓ©mon spin-off (Pokken 2?), GF PokΓ©mon title(Battle simulator that combines Battle Frontier, World Cup and contests utilizing all PokΓ©mon from Home), ND Cube Minigame Party(Animal Crossing Party game, Nintendoland, or another Mario Party), New Monolithsoft IP (maybe a MOBA or MMO) or Xenoblade X, Hero of Wind trilogy(WW, PH and ST remade in the same engine with touch screen/motion control support), TP & Link’s Crossbow Training package, etc. to provide new experiences to the system that will continue to grow the user base and hardware sales until the true Switch replacement launches in Spring 2026. As well as 3rd party titles such as PS4/X1 ports/remasters that could be played on the upgraded Switch model.
 
Of all the potential concerns with BC I saw from MVG, even if all your digital downloads tied to your account transfer over just fine and there is 100% BC from whichever of the options, I feel like Nintendo changing the physical format and there just not being a slot for the old physical cards is the most plausible option when it comes to BC issues.

Again, probably not going to be the case but that is what I would worry about more than any of the other potential problems.
As someone who exclusively bought physical for the first several years of the Switch, this has been on my mind. I'm not someone who tends to frequently use backwards compatibility on Nintendo consoles, but with Switch, I have a large enough backlog that I'd appreciate full compatibility when moving to Switch 2.

In the (maybe unlikely) scenario that Nintendo breaks compatibility with Switch cards with Switch 2, I wonder if they could use something similar to their Gold Coin registration system for physical copies to offer me digital licenses for the games I own. A major limiting factor might be if the Switch doesn't have a way of uniquely identifying every Switch card and therefore preventing multiple people redeeming from the same copy.

Less than ideal, but without physical backwards compatibility, this would work for me. And personally, nowadays, I'd actually prefer if I could convert all my Switch games to digital copies for cheap somehow.
 
I did. Jokey dismissals aside, I don't agree with his skeptical framing and I don't think he presents all the possibilities for how BC could work, there's not much comparison with how other consoles implement BC other than a mention of leaked PS5 clockspeed modes. Other folks in this thread have laid out more detailed rebuttals.

If you're talking about the video, that's not an MVG video, and secondly, yes I am forming opinions about the thumbnail because I don't care to watch it.

I watched MVG's video and his option 5, an upclocked TX1, seems to be the option he has convinced himself is going to happen because it is the easiest. He dismisses the idea of T239 actually being used for Nintendo as others have discussed earlier. As I have said before, he puts out good content, I just disagree with his video.
Sorry wasnβ€˜t antagonizing anyone in this thread. Was more talking about YouTube videos popping up using his speculation as clickbait. Should have been clearer.
 
There's nothing stopping them from just implementing all the missing/modified instructions from Maxwell, but I don't think there's any direct evidence they've done that. Driver compatibility is likely a non-issue, since there must be some level of that already for older games to work on the most recent firmware.
Wait, i was under the impression that the whole reason that Nintendo ships drivers with every piece of software, was to avoid compatibility issues with newer drivers. If it's not that, then why do they do it?
 
The technical talk regarding Switch 2 and MVG’s video has been confusing. Am I understanding this correctly that backwards compatibility IS an issue but can be dealt with? Easily?
Don't know about easily, console BC is never trivial. But it's definitely within Nvidias capabilities.
 
0
Wait, i was under the impression that the whole reason that Nintendo ships drivers with every piece of software, was to avoid compatibility issues with newer drivers. If it's not that, then why do they do it?
Yes and no. The games apparently do contain a substantial portion of the driver, which I assume is at least partially for compatibility reasons, but it's not the whole thing. The part of the driver that talks to hardware directly is part of the OS, and gets updated periodically. The interface of this part of the driver provides needs to maintain compatibility with the older versions shipped with games, but since Nvidia driver updates seem to be relatively seamless on platforms that let you hot reload the kernel driver (Windows), I suspect this may just be standard operating procedure regardless of platform.
 
what we know
  • 1536 Ampere cores
    • RT cores and tensor cores included
  • 8 A78 cores
  • 128-bit memory bus
  • hardware decompression block
what we don't know
  • clock speeds
  • memory type, amount, and speed
if you want to do comparisons, you'd have to do a lot of extrapolation. the closest gpu out there is a laptop gpu, the RTX 2050. that's listed up on 3D Mark at least
RT and DLSS aside, we're looking at something closer to a Pascal GTX 1050 Ti Mobile to GTX 1060 Max Q. Maybe GTX 1060 in the best-case scenario. I think.
You cannot conclude anything from this info power wise since we lack associated frequencies.

Like, seriously. Full stop.

The PS4+ part is likely valid. At the very least, in docked mode. Not holding my breath vs. the Series S, of course.. Though if we get it to 3 TFLOPs on Drake, it would be interesting to see how it holds up against games that aren't CPU constrained and with DLSS running. I'm excited to see how Drake generally holds up against last-gen and Series S.
too be fair, a number of resetera users were confident switch couldn't handle metroid prime at 60fps so...
Who? Not MP Remastered. There's no reason why MP4 can't handle 60 fps. It depends on how ambitious Nintendo/Retro Studios wants to be with the graphical detail, resolution, and overall performance. There's gonna be a balance between the 3. Considering it's gonna be a multiplatform port, this is why people were not expecting MP4 on Switch to be 60fps. But it's hard to say. Perhaps MP4 will be targeting 720p 60fps in docked mode.
ARM and Tencent will go into mobile RT with Tencent's SmartGI global illumination solution for Unreal Engine 5


there's a short article that went up about the solution not long ago, with some pretty pictures (and stats turned on!)

Ray-tracing-blog-image-2.png

Ray-tracing-blog-image-3.png

Ray-tracing-blog-image-4.png

Geesus. They had to sacrifice hard on resolution.
Nintendo just posted the date they will release their FY earnings report.

It's May 9th.


Is this true even considering the bare minimum clocks and low power draw?

It’s been awhile since I’ve read all the discussions pages ago…just curious.

So a Switch game that runs a variable 540p-720p and struggles a bit to keep 30fps can perform at native 4K steady 60fps on Drake hardware with minimum clocks and at 10w? Enough headroom to increase graphic iq even? (After assuming needing to push 4K textures and stuff)



I think the reaction to MVG is all because of the framing.

It’s ok to say in the middle of a broader discussion β€œhey, there might be a hurdle in terms of BC, but it can be overcome and I’m sure won’t be an issue”

But MVG whole point was to sensationalize the issue, present worst case scenarios and pretend it’s very plausible. And people just don’t like when social media people do that kind of BS just to increase engagement and views/clicks.

If Drake uses Switch's highest handheld and regular docked clocks (768Mhz and 460Mhz), we're looking at 1.4 TFLOPS/2.3 TFLOPs. Handheld alone at 1.4 TFLOPs will give OG PS4 a run for its money. Much more efficient architecture and more modern features. Something like a 3 TFLOPs docked would likely surpass PS4 Pro, but I can't give a definite answer in actual performance because of the differences in bandwidth without DLSS. We'd have to see for ourselves (102GB/s vs. 217GB/s). The Switch at 25 GB/s could do wonders though VS Xbone and PS4's bandwidth.

I'm not confident that demanding 540-720p 30fps games on Switch can perform at native 4k 60fps (without DLSS) on Drake unless we're talking about handheld switch mode vs. Drake docked. And Drake docked is very close or at 3 TFLOPs.

There's a lot to go into play, though, like bottlenecks. Going from 720p to 4k native resolution already requires 9x the number of pixels/ GPU power. Now you want to add 2x the framerate, which may or may not be GPU bottleneck or something else like CPU.
 
Sadly I don't think this will be meaningful. At the moment I expect a June-August inclusive reveal. Don't even think they'll mention it to investors until the trailer is out.

That said, we could see R&D suddenly fall off a cliff, which would imply a release soon.
Just watch them make an announcement trailer the day before.
 
@NintendoPrime @oldpuck @Alovon11 @Dakhil @LiC @Thraktor @ReddDreadtheLead (just naming people who can check my work here, I got 3 hours of sleep and am powering through work on my second cup of coffee right now)

I recommend scrolling to the bottom and reading the TL;DR: first. It should give the immediate answers, if there is more questions about other aspects of the hardware, or if my explanation is long winded/not clear, please @me.

In order to understand the upgrade "Switch 2" offers, we first need to look at Switch specs:

CPU-


TX1 ARM, 4 A57 cores @1GHz (one core reserved for the OS)
T239 ARM, 8*A78C cores ~1GHz-2GHz (one core reserved for the OS)

Upgraded result to CPU:
A78 is 3 times faster than A57 cores per clock, giving between a 7 times and 14 times performance jump, A78 cores are also faster than Ryzen 2 cores used in PS5/XBS per clock, but clocked much lower, so a 2GHz clock would result in somewhere above 50% of the CPU resources found in PS5/XBS, and far beyond last gen consoles.

When compared to Steam Deck, Steam Deck has 4 cores and 8 threads, while Drake has 8 cores/threads, if Drake is clocked at 2GHz, it would offer a similar CPU resource to Steam Deck, although Steam Deck's CPUs clock to 3.5GHz, because pairs of threads share resources between each core, the overall performance drops here, with somewhere in the neighborhood of 70-80% of having 8 cores at that clock, Drake's 2GHz cores would offer ~70% of 8 cores at 3.5GHz so while Steam Deck has more CPU performance, but it shouldn't be by very much.


RAM-


TX1 4GB 64bit LPDDR4/LPDDR4X ~20GB/s in handheld mode, 25.6GB/s docked (~800MB reserved for os iirc)
T239 8GB to 16GB 128bit LPDDR5(x?) over 60GB/s in handheld mode, up to 102GB/s (137GB/s if lpddr5x).

Upgraded result to the RAM:
3.2GB RAM @20-25GB/s vs 7-15GB RAM @60-102GB/s, we are talking about 3 to 4 times the capacity and speed of Switch, 12GB is probably the most realistic capacity.

102GB/s would be around PS4's 176GB/s RAM speed when architecture advantage is taken into account, as these architectures are far more bandwidth efficient. This should allow for third parties to bring their games forward onto the platform without much problem, bandwidth is less an issue of direct comparison with other devices, and more about individual system's available bandwidth, this is about preventing bottlenecks, rather than increasing performance, so hard to say how this compares to current gen consoles, Steam Deck for instance has 88GB/s of memory bandwidth, but it's a good balance for that system.


Storage-


While storage is unknown, what we do know is the range of storage that could be used:
First, Switch's internal storage is 100MB/s, it uses EMMC.
When compared to Drake, EMMC actually has a speed of 400MB/s, so if it uses this type of memory, expect a 4 times increase in read speeds.

UFS is also a type of storage that could be used, here the minimum speed is twice as fast, and could easily match XBS internal storage if needed.


Load times-


This is a reflection of above's specs, it also would have something to do with the decompression block found in Drake, but lets just go over minimum gains, as that is where we should discuss this, and we will also only be talking about Switch gen 1 titles, because next gen titles we have no real idea about.

If you run across a Switch game (not in the cloud) that takes 30 seconds to load, Drake should load that same data in 7 seconds or less. Most Switch games load in about half that time, so here we are talking about ~3 seconds on Drake. It could be faster if it does use UFS, and there will always be rare hiccups where games just take longer to load, but the direct comparison here is over 4 times faster than Switch.


GPU-


TX1 256 Maxwell cuda cores @ 460MHz and 768MHz for 235GFLOPs and 393GFLOPs
T239 1536 Ampere cuda cores @ 660MHz* and 1125MHz* for 2TFLOPs and 3.456TFLOPs, 48 Tensor cores, 12 RT cores

TX1 Maxwell is a 2015 design that is the 3rd iteration of Maxwell, much closer to Pascal architecture, borrowing most noteably 16fp at 2:1 cuda cores, or twice the flops at half the precision.

Ampere is over half a decade newer, it has mesh shaders, VRS, and a slew of other GPU features, that increase raw speed beyond what paper math can tell you, I'll discuss DLSS a little later, because it's much clearer to see what it offers if we separate it from the other GPU features.

Drake's GPU is 6 times bigger than Switch's, in handheld mode given these speculative (possibly real) clocks, it would out perform PS4 before DLSS is used, again even beyond just having more raw performance over the PS4, it also has those GPU features that the 2011 GPU architecture found in PS4, is lacking. VRS is said to offer a 20% increase in performance, and mesh/geometry shaders, can offer 25% increase in performance as well, just these do features combined can add 50% performance increase to the same architecture per flop. Comparing GCN to Ampere is much less precise, but we can look at the raw performance here and conclude that Drake > PS4. β€œif the engine supports the features that is, which will enable the game to make use of it. However, even if these aren’t accounted for there’s been a decade of improvements between architectures of the early 2010s and architectures now, Drake should be ahead, and if all things are considered it should be more efficient at doing the job if enabling other unique features” -Redddeadthelead

When compared to Steam Deck's RDNA GPU, it has these features and while the GPU is generally clocked lower for 1.3TFLOPs, it can reach 1.6TFLOPs, and it does have these features, as well as a flop advantage over Ampere in PCs, however in a closed environment, Ampere should pick up ground, I'd put 1.6TFLOPs Steam Deck around the same as a 660MHz clocked (2TFLOPs) Drake GPU, before DLSS is applied. Once DLSS is applied, it can significantly drop the required performance and offer a higher resolution, and if Drake is capable of frame generation, it could further expand this lead, basically a PS4 Pro to XB1X in your hands at the very best, however it's best to just think of it as a Steam Deck with DLSS on top. (Steam Deck is also a poor FSR2 system, so it really can't offer it's own competitive upscaling tech).

When docked, Drake at 1.125GHz offers 3.456TFLOPs, this should be similar to XBSS' 4TFLOPs. DLSS should help it match whatever XBSS can do with FSR2, and if it comes with 12GB or more RAM, it might actually have less of a RAM issue than XBSS, even though the RAM is half as fast, because RAM speed is more about bottlenecks as I discussed above.


The TL;DR
Drake's CPU is somewhere around Steam Decks, slower, but in the ballpark. (more cores, same threads, less clock) ~85% of SD?
Drake's GPU in handheld should offer similar, but better performance over Steam Deck, ~130-200%
Drake's GPU in docked should match or exceed XBSS, thanks to DLSS being superior to FSR2. ~80-100%
Drake's RAM is 3 to 4 times the capacity and speed of Switch's, and should fit well with current gen consoles.
Drake's Storage is at least 4 times faster than Switch's and load times should shrink in Switch gen 1 games by over 4 times.
 
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CPU-


TX1 ARM, 4 A57 cores @1GHz (one core reserved for the OS)
T239 ARM, 8*A78C cores ~1GHz-2GHz (one core reserved for the OS)

Upgraded result to CPU:
A78 is 3 times faster than A57 cores per clock, giving between a 7 times and 14 times performance jump, A78 cores are also faster than Ryzen 2 cores used in PS5/XBS, and a 2GHz clock would result in somewhere above 50% of the CPU resources found in PS5/XBS, and far beyond last gen consoles.

When compared to Steam Deck, Steam Deck has 4 cores and 8 threads, while Drake has 8 cores/threads, if Drake is clocked at 2GHz, it would offer a similar CPU resource to Steam Deck, although Steam Deck's CPUs clock to 3.5GHz, because pairs of threads share resources between each core, the overall performance drops here, with somewhere in the neighborhood of 70-80% of having 8 cores at that clock, Drake's 2GHz cores would offer ~70% of 8 cores at 3.5GHz so while Steam Deck has more CPU resources, it shouldn't be by very much.
I’d be careful about the phrasing, and since this seems like it’ll be on YouTube, it needs to take the audience into consideration.


For one, with the β€œA78 is faster than ryzen 2 cores used in these other consoles”


we have to contextualize this and also give caveats because the scenario will be painted for years.


A78 is more performant in single threaded applications without having to clock to the same level. however, the Zen 2 CPUs can clock higher and the A78 needs to be clocked sufficiently for this to be noticed. A78 do not have SMT that the Zen 2 cores can utilize, which does increase their performance ahead further, but nonetheless A78 is a really solid upgrade.


The 7-14x upgrade is from taking the cores available in both theoretical devices and finding the difference, assuming a linear ~3x IPC and assume the same clocks with no improvement.

You get 3 vs 7 cores, which means the theoretical device has 2.33x the core count to do the work, with a 3x IPC, which is 2.33 times 3 giving 6.99x without even changing the CPU speeds.

And if we have twice the GHz, it’s nearly twice that ~7x number, which is what gives us that 14x

Again, not targeted at you, but to keep in mind who it is you’re talking to, which is the less inclined to mess with this.

And when we consider this and turning it into as sentence, β€œwith these put into context, we can see how it can be such a big leap in just the CPU. With respect to the Zen 2 in the consoles, it will be quite performant but it will still be in a portable system and so it won’t hit it toe to toe, but if clocked enough it can be at a level where the CPU isn’t too much of an issue. It’ll still need work on dev side, but it should be a lot easier to bring games to this system compared to the switch and with respectable enough results”


The Steam deck part is mostly fine, just change resources to frequency. It has higher frequency but it has less physical cores to do the job. Drake would have more cores and the same number of threads, but it would be clocked lower so they should be able to trade blows, with Drake having a better battery life (theoretically).




Drake's GPU is 6 times bigger than Switch's, in handheld mode given these speculative (possibly real) clocks, it would out perform PS4 before DLSS is used, again even beyond just having more raw performance over the PS4, it also has those GPU features that the 2011 GPU architecture found in PS4, is lacking. VRS is said to offer a 20% increase in performance, and mesh/geometry shaders, can offer 25% increase in performance as well, just these do features combined can add 50% performance increase to the same architecture per flop. Comparing GCN to Ampere is much less precise, but we can look at the raw performance here and conclude that Drake > PS4.
When doing this comparison, add β€œif the engine supports the features that is, which will enable the game to make use of it. However, even if these aren’t accounted for there’s been a decade of improvements between architectures of the early 2010s and architectures now, Drake should be ahead, and if all things are considered it should be more efficient at doing the job if enabling other unique features”


Also, the clocks for Drake on the GPU side shouldn’t matter.

And DLSS should not be viewed as a multiplicative effect, but rather a percentage. It would help it provide a cleaner image without actually having to exert excess to do so.

And finally, β€œwith a proper dev support, they can make the most out of this to squeeze blood from stone and inch ahead.”

Once DLSS is applied, it can add 50% to 100% performance increase, and if Drake is capable of frame generation, it could further expand this lead, basically a PS4 Pro to XB1X in your hands at the very best, however it's best to just think of it as a Steam Deck with DLSS on top. (Steam Deck is also a poor FSR2 system, so it really can't offer it's own competitive upscaling tech).
I don’t know if it’s just me, but I feel like this should be phrased differently. Rather than increase, it makes the system perform with a lighter load while not causing a massive image degradation. It would offer a good enough, image quality to the end-user, while also massively saving Performance for other areas of importance, aka being more efficient. DLSS is a nifty tool but it shouldn’t be seen as literal magic, this is a small device that has to run off a battery and also not cause too much of disparity between one mode and the other.



LiC from Famiboards discovered a DLSS test using an Ampere GPU sometime after July 2021 and before February 2022, inside of this test, it shows 3 clocks, with names related to power consumptions:

660MHz called 4.2watts 1.125GHz called 9.3watts and 1.38GHz called 12watts.

This can't be 8nm Ampere, because no Ampere GPU can hit those clocks at those power consumptions. It also can't natively be running on real Drake hardware, because Drake hardware didn't exist yet, and because this is running natively in Windows, and Drake is an ARM SoC... However it could be running a simulation of Drake's GPU in isolation, as virtually in this time frame, Drake existed, and became an engineering sample (real hardware) just 2 months after this hack.

The power consumptions, and just the size of the SoC itself, lends credit to the idea that Drake is 5nm or better, from either Samsung or TSMC, the vendor and process node don't mean much, they just give us a range for clocks, however if this test revealed the clocks, the process node/vendor where the chip is produced no longer matters.
I’d honestly just leave this out as it isn’t important to the end viewer, and it opens a different can of worms. Basically while nice to see I don’t think this is really important, the node or why it can or can’t be this or that, as in the end it’s a wait and see with that approach.


I get where you’re coming from here, but this part of this discussion would really just be suitable for a specific niche of people, and not the important aspect of it anyway.


And of course, the final caveat: this is simply a possibility of happening, we don’t know for certain what is going on at nintendo HQ or Nvidia HQ, but it’s fun and meant only for speculative discussion purposes to consider. The hack is real, the information in the hack is real and confirmed real by nvidia (that they did get hacked), and the information relating to some of the topics discussed that is public in for is also real. However, the clockspeed’s are all speculative and how it’ll perform in the real world is also speculative, it is based on extrapolation of other systems/devices, and how they perform relative to other products to try to come up with a conclusion that seems accurate, based on how they perform in the real world. And this is all in good fun, it can be exact or it can be a bit or a lot off. Hardware wise it likely isn’t, as it mentioned information tied to Nintendo, but speed and performance wise it’s for fun and speculative purposes in the end.


TL;DR consider the audience at large and consider how somethings are phrased with them in mind. You mean well, and people who know what you mean are here mostly, but to the audience at large, they would literally take this as 100% truth, or as 100% lies with nothing in between, and it would cause a different type of discussion. So we should be careful and phrase it in a way that has people interested and considerate whether they believe it or not. And also be considerate of what the more technically savvy people would even bother with.
 
@NintendoPrime @oldpuck @Alovon11 @Dakhil @LiC @Thraktor @ReddDreadtheLead (just naming people who can check my work here, I got 3 hours of sleep and am powering through work on my second cup of coffee right now)

I recommend scrolling to the bottom and reading the TL;DR: first. It should give the immediate answers, if there is more questions about other aspects of the hardware, or if my explanation is long winded/not clear, please @me.

In order to understand the upgrade "Switch 2" offers, we first need to look at Switch specs:

CPU-


TX1 ARM, 4 A57 cores @1GHz (one core reserved for the OS)
T239 ARM, 8*A78C cores ~1GHz-2GHz (one core reserved for the OS)

Upgraded result to CPU:
A78 is 3 times faster than A57 cores per clock, giving between a 7 times and 14 times performance jump, A78 cores are also faster than Ryzen 2 cores used in PS5/XBS, and a 2GHz clock would result in somewhere above 50% of the CPU resources found in PS5/XBS, and far beyond last gen consoles.

When compared to Steam Deck, Steam Deck has 4 cores and 8 threads, while Drake has 8 cores/threads, if Drake is clocked at 2GHz, it would offer a similar CPU resource to Steam Deck, although Steam Deck's CPUs clock to 3.5GHz, because pairs of threads share resources between each core, the overall performance drops here, with somewhere in the neighborhood of 70-80% of having 8 cores at that clock, Drake's 2GHz cores would offer ~70% of 8 cores at 3.5GHz so while Steam Deck has more CPU resources, it shouldn't be by very much.


RAM-


TX1 4GB 64bit LPDDR4/LPDDR4X ~20GB/s in handheld mode, 25.6GB/s docked (~800MB reserved for os iirc)
T239 8GB to 16GB 128bit LPDDR5(x?) over 60GB/s in handheld mode, up to 102GB/s (137GB/s if lpddr5x).

Upgraded result to the RAM:
3.2GB RAM @20-25GB/s vs 7-15GB RAM @60-102GB/s, we are talking about 3 to 4 times the capacity and speed of Switch, 12GB is probably the most realistic capacity.

102GB/s would be around PS4's 176GB/s RAM speed when architecture advantage is taken into account, as these architectures are far more bandwidth efficient. This should allow for third parties to bring their games forward onto the platform without much problem, bandwidth is less an issue of direct comparison with other devices, and more about individual system's available bandwidth, this is about preventing bottlenecks, rather than increasing performance, so hard to say how this compares to current gen consoles, Steam Deck for instance has 88GB/s of memory bandwidth, but it's a good balance for that system.


Storage-


While storage is unknown, what we do know is the range of storage that could be used:
First, Switch's internal storage is 100MB/s, it uses EMMC.
When compared to Drake, EMMC actually has a speed of 400MB/s, so if it uses this type of memory, expect a 4 times increase in read speeds.

UFS is also a type of storage that could be used, here the minimum speed is twice as fast, and could easily match XBS internal storage if needed.


Load times-


This is a reflection of above's specs, it also would have something to do with the decompression block found in Drake, but lets just go over minimum gains, as that is where we should discuss this, and we will also only be talking about Switch gen 1 titles, because next gen titles we have no real idea about.

If you run across a Switch game (not in the cloud) that takes 30 seconds to load, Drake should load that same data in 7 seconds or less. Most Switch games load in about half that time, so here we are talking about ~3 seconds on Drake. It could be faster if it does use UFS, and there will always be rare hiccups where games just take longer to load, but the direct comparison here is over 4 times faster than Switch.


GPU-


TX1 256 Maxwell cuda cores @ 460MHz and 768MHz for 235GFLOPs and 393GFLOPs
T239 1536 Ampere cuda cores @ 660MHz* and 1125MHz* for 2TFLOPs and 3.456TFLOPs, 48 Tensor cores, 12 RT cores

TX1 Maxwell is a 2015 design that is the 3rd iteration of Maxwell, much closer to Pascal architecture, borrowing most noteably 16fp at 2:1 cuda cores, or twice the flops at half the precision.

Ampere is over half a decade newer, it has mesh shaders, VRS, and a slew of other GPU features, that increase raw speed beyond what paper math can tell you, I'll discuss DLSS a little later, because it's much clearer to see what it offers if we separate it from the other GPU features.

Drake's GPU is 6 times bigger than Switch's, in handheld mode given these speculative (possibly real) clocks, it would out perform PS4 before DLSS is used, again even beyond just having more raw performance over the PS4, it also has those GPU features that the 2011 GPU architecture found in PS4, is lacking. VRS is said to offer a 20% increase in performance, and mesh/geometry shaders, can offer 25% increase in performance as well, just these do features combined can add 50% performance increase to the same architecture per flop. Comparing GCN to Ampere is much less precise, but we can look at the raw performance here and conclude that Drake > PS4.

When compared to Steam Deck's RDNA GPU, it has these features and while the GPU is generally clocked lower for 1.3TFLOPs, it can reach 1.6TFLOPs, and it does have these features, as well as a flop advantage over Ampere in PCs, however in a closed environment, Ampere should pick up ground, I'd put 1.6TFLOPs Steam Deck around the same as a 660MHz clocked (2TFLOPs) Drake GPU, before DLSS is applied. Once DLSS is applied, it can add 50% to 100% performance increase, and if Drake is capable of frame generation, it could further expand this lead, basically a PS4 Pro to XB1X in your hands at the very best, however it's best to just think of it as a Steam Deck with DLSS on top. (Steam Deck is also a poor FSR2 system, so it really can't offer it's own competitive upscaling tech).

When docked, Drake at 1.125GHz offers 3.456TFLOPs, this should be similar to XBSS' 4TFLOPs. DLSS should help it match whatever XBSS can do with FSR2, and if it comes with 12GB or more RAM, it might actually have less of a RAM issue than XBSS, even though the RAM is half as fast, because RAM speed is more about bottlenecks as I discussed above.


*Possible clocks for GPU found in Nvidia Hack from last year-

LiC from Famiboards discovered a DLSS test inside the hacked NVN API using an Ampere GPU sometime after July 2021 and before February 2022, inside of this test, it shows 3 clocks, with names related to power consumptions:

660MHz called 4.2watts 1.125GHz called 9.3watts and 1.38GHz called 12watts.

This can't be 8nm Ampere, because no Ampere GPU can hit those clocks at those power consumptions. It also can't natively be running on real Drake hardware, because Drake hardware didn't exist yet, and because this is running natively in Windows, and Drake is an ARM SoC... However it could be running a simulation of Drake's GPU in isolation, as virtually in this time frame, Drake existed, and became an engineering sample (real hardware) just 2 months after this hack.

The power consumptions, and just the size of the SoC itself, lends credit to the idea that Drake is 5nm or better, from either Samsung or TSMC, the vendor and process node don't mean much, they just give us a range for clocks, however if this test revealed the clocks, the process node/vendor where the chip is produced no longer matters.


The TL;DR
Drake's CPU is somewhere around Steam Decks, slower, but in the ballpark. (more cores, same threads, less clock) ~85% of SD?
Drake's GPU in handheld should offer similar, but better performance over Steam Deck, ~130-200%
Drake's GPU in docked should match or exceed XBSS, thanks to DLSS being superior to FSR2. ~80-100%
Drake's RAM is 3 to 4 times the capacity and speed of Switch's, and should fit well with current gen consoles.
Drake's Storage is at least 4 times faster than Switch's and load times should shrink in Switch gen 1 games by over 4 times.

This is exciting stuff, reading this (providing this is the system we get from Nintendo) it seems they are looking to release a technically up to date console? Not something that will be out of date within a small timeframe I mean?
 
Ok I’m done. 🀭
This is exciting stuff, reading this (providing this is the system we get from Nintendo) it seems they are looking to release a technically up to date console? Not something that will be out of date within a small timeframe I mean?
It’s already out of date by virtue of using a CPU from 2020 and a GPU from 2020. But it’s modern to the mass consumers that it doesn’t matter much in the grand scheme.
 
For in-game results, I'm expecting something like 2/3 of a Series S when docked, 1/3 of a Series S when portable. Considering how obvious diminishing returns are this generation, that should be enough to run 99% of the third party games for the upcoming 5 years.
 
I’d be careful about the phrasing, and since this seems like it’ll be on YouTube, it needs to take the audience into consideration.


For one, with the β€œA78 is faster than ryzen 2 cores used in these other consoles”


we have to contextualize this and also give caveats because the scenario will be painted for years.


A78 is more performant in single threaded applications without having to clock to the same level. however, the Zen 2 CPUs can clock higher and the A78 needs to be clocked sufficiently for this to be noticed. A78 do not have SMT that the Zen 2 cores can utilize, which does increase their performance ahead further, but nonetheless A78 is a really solid upgrade.


The 7-14x upgrade is from taking the cores available in both theoretical devices and finding the difference, assuming a linear ~3x IPC and assume the same clocks with no improvement.

You get 3 vs 7 cores, which means the theoretical device has 2.33x the core count to do the work, with a 3x IPC, which is 2.33 times 3 giving 6.99x without even changing the CPU speeds.

And if we have twice the GHz, it’s nearly twice that ~7x number, which is what gives us that 14x

Again, not targeted at you, but to keep in mind who it is you’re talking to, which is the less inclined to mess with this.

And when we consider this and turning it into as sentence, β€œwith these put into context, we can see how it can be such a big leap in just the CPU. With respect to the Zen 2 in the consoles, it will be quite performant but it will still be in a portable system and so it won’t hit it toe to toe, but if clocked enough it can be at a level where the CPU isn’t too much of an issue. It’ll still need work on dev side, but it should be a lot easier to bring games to this system compared to the switch and with respectable enough results”


The Steam deck part is mostly fine, just change resources to frequency. It has higher frequency but it has less physical cores to do the job. Drake would have more cores and the same number of threads, but it would be clocked lower so they should be able to trade blows, with Drake having a better battery life (theoretically).





When doing this comparison, add β€œif the engine supports the features that is, which will enable the game to make use of it. However, even if these aren’t accounted for there’s been a decade of improvements between architectures of the early 2010s and architectures now, Drake should be ahead, and if all things are considered it should be more efficient at doing the job if enabling other unique features”


Also, the clocks for Drake on the GPU side shouldn’t matter.

And DLSS should not be viewed as a multiplicative effect, but rather a percentage. It would help it provide a cleaner image without actually having to exert excess to do so.

And finally, β€œwith a proper dev support, they can make the most out of this to squeeze blood from stone and inch ahead.”


I don’t know if it’s just me, but I feel like this should be phrased differently. Rather than increase, it makes the system perform with a lighter load while not causing a massive image degradation. It would offer a good enough, image quality to the end-user, while also massively saving Performance for other areas of importance, aka being more efficient. DLSS is a nifty tool but it shouldn’t be seen as literal magic, this is a small device that has to run off a battery and also not cause too much of disparity between one mode and the other.




I’d honestly just leave this out as it isn’t important to the end viewer, and it opens a different can of worms. Basically while nice to see I don’t think this is really important, the node or why it can or can’t be this or that, as in the end it’s a wait and see with that approach.


I get where you’re coming from here, but this part of this discussion would really just be suitable for a specific niche of people, and not the important aspect of it anyway.


And of course, the final caveat: this is simply a possibility of happening, we don’t know for certain what is going on at nintendo HQ or Nvidia HQ, but it’s fun and meant only for speculative discussion purposes to consider. The hack is real, the information in the hack is real and confirmed real by nvidia (that they did get hacked), and the information relating to some of the topics discussed that is public in for is also real. However, the clockspeed’s are all speculative and how it’ll perform in the real world is also speculative, it is based on extrapolation of other systems/devices, and how they perform relative to other products to try to come up with a conclusion that seems accurate, based on how they perform in the real world. And this is all in good fun, it can be exact or it can be a bit or a lot off. Hardware wise it likely isn’t, as it mentioned information tied to Nintendo, but speed and performance wise it’s for fun and speculative purposes in the end.


TL;DR consider the audience at large and consider how somethings are phrased with them in mind. You mean well, and people who know what you mean are here mostly, but to the audience at large, they would literally take this as 100% truth, or as 100% lies with nothing in between, and it would cause a different type of discussion. So we should be careful and phrase it in a way that has people interested and considerate whether they believe it or not. And also be considerate of what the more technically savvy people would even bother with.
Thanks Reddd, I made changes, I think ultimately the post is for Nintendo Prime's understanding and he can shape it to his audience. It's best if he understands the information as well as possible, I did remove the GPU clocks source, it's still quoted in your post, which is enough for historical sake IMO, I think you're right, if those clocks didn't exist, I'd have estimated right around there, actually have in the past with my suggestion of 600-700mhz portable, 1.1 to 1.2GHz docked.
 
For in-game results, I'm expecting something like 2/3 of a Series S when docked, 1/3 of a Series S when portable. Considering how obvious diminishing returns are this generation, that should be enough to run 99% of the third party games for the upcoming 5 years.
For ingame results, Im expecting it to behave more as the one X than the Series S. By that I mean higher resolution, but lower settings and/or framerate.
 
For in-game results, I'm expecting something like 2/3 of a Series S when docked, 1/3 of a Series S when portable. Considering how obvious diminishing returns are this generation, that should be enough to run 99% of the third party games for the upcoming 5 years.
So long as downporting is easy, yes
 
0
For ingame results, Im expecting it to behave more as the one X than the Series S. By that I mean higher resolution, but lower settings and/or framerate.
I think it will be case by case, they clearly have strength and weaknesses, DLSS allows for less resources at the same output resolution, so it should be able to match settings more often, unless Ampere has other bottlenecks there, it should also do RT at or above the other two more powerful consoles, so it could actually have settings higher than XBSS in that term.

I think another thing we will see is quicker / sloppier ports to XBSS, Drake is unique enough where you actually do have to do some work to port to it, not much but enough to "care" for lack of a better word, where as XBSS will get a sloppy down port from it's big brother, which is already getting a port from PC/PS5.
 
Drake's CPU is somewhere around Steam Decks, slower, but in the ballpark. (more cores, same threads, less clock) ~85% of SD?
Drake's GPU in handheld should offer similar, but better performance over Steam Deck, ~130-200%
Switch also had the advantage of compiled shaders and games being made for it specifically so the 85% clock speed issue should be negligible if not better.
Edit: Also having a lightweight OS. Steamdeck has tons of overhead just by using a multipurpose OS alone, not to mention proton.
 
too be fair, a number of resetera users were confident switch couldn't handle metroid prime at 60fps so...
I was permabanned on that hellsite. It's full of disablists, racists, and bad faith operators. I know I've been warned before for badmouthing the New Old Place, but I don't take a word back because that was my experience.

The Nintendo Misinformation Machine is unreal, and your comment is just one example of that (not you personally, I mean the case you highlighted), in that you know it's patently false, but a narrative must be peddled and it must persist because reasons.
 
Switch 2 will be a console and can be easily optimized for it, Steam Deck is a Portable PC and we know how it is nowadays with PC ports
 
Switch 2 will be a console and can be easily optimized for it, Steam Deck is a Portable PC and we know how it is nowadays with PC ports
This is very true, I believe I do mention that Ampere will perform differently in a closed environment, this was partly what I meant.
 
I think it will be case by case, they clearly have strength and weaknesses, DLSS allows for less resources at the same output resolution, so it should be able to match settings more often, unless Ampere has other bottlenecks there, it should also do RT at or above the other two more powerful consoles, so it could actually have settings higher than XBSS in that term.

I think another thing we will see is quicker / sloppier ports to XBSS, Drake is unique enough where you actually do have to do some work to port to it, not much but enough to "care" for lack of a better word, where as XBSS will get a sloppy down port from it's big brother, which is already getting a port from PC/PS5.
Most Third Party AAA developers choose PS5 as the leading platform, then port to Xbox/PC, which is supposedly easy because Xbox and PC are the same DirectX API, That's why Xbox First/Second Party Developers have it easier because they do everything under one API
 
This is very true, I believe I do mention that Ampere will perform differently in a closed environment, this was partly what I meant.
I'm curious what the RT performance on Drake will be like, Btw what do you think about Clocks? I bet it could be 2Teraflops In Handheald and 4teraflops In Docked
 
I'm curious what the RT performance on Drake will be like, Btw what do you think about Clocks? I bet it could be 2Teraflops In Handheald and 4teraflops In Docked
Depends entirely on node and targeted battery life, which are the biggest unknowns at this point.

Edit: and no matter what node, it won't be what you said.
 
I don't expect anything here, not even a hint of a next-gen system, TotK will release just 3 day after the report, you want all the attention on that title alone.
There will certainly be questions, but it depends on how they are answered. The previous one reiterated that a new system needs new unique software alongside it, which pours cold water on the idea of a iterative hardware model that starts with no unique software ala GBC/Xbox Series.
 
I'm curious what the RT performance on Drake will be like, Btw what do you think about Clocks? I bet it could be 2Teraflops In Handheald and 4teraflops In Docked
Depends entirely on node and targeted battery life, which are the biggest unknowns at this point.
Actually the GPU numbers I gave in my post were found in NVN from the hack, it's a curious DLSS test, where there are 3 clocks given that are named by power consumption. 4.2w is 660MHz, 9.3w is 1.125GHz and a 3rd which I believe is a stress test, called 12w, and is 1.38GHz.

This means the handheld would offer 2TFLOPs, docked would offer 3.456TFLOPs, and 4.24TFLOPs for what I believe to be a stress test, though maybe people will finally get a stand alone console and it's for that lol.

Drake docked could have the best RT performance of any current gen console, and even in handheld mode, be similar to PS5/XBSX's RT.

I think the only specs we don't have a real clue about is RAM and Storage, we know the general types available, and we have minimum numbers, which I used above, but we don't know what the overall capacities will be, or how fast it could be.

There will certainly be questions, but it depends on how they are answered. The previous one reiterated that a new system needs new unique software alongside it, which pours cold water on the idea of a iterative hardware model that starts with no unique software ala GBC/Xbox Series.
Gameboy Color have 100s of exclusive titles actually, I think it will probably be like PS4 and PS5 with a ~3 year crossgen period, and Switch could get forward compatibility through cloud streaming after that, Depends on how much Nintendo wants to cater to ~150M+ Switch owners.
 
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Gameboy Color have 100s of exclusive titles actually, I think it will probably be like PS4 and PS5 with a ~3 year crossgen period, and Switch could get forward compatibility through cloud streaming after that, Depends on how much Nintendo wants to cater to ~150M+ Switch owners.

That's why I said 'that starts with' and likened it to XSeries, there weren't any GBC exclusive titles in the first year.
 
@NintendoPrime @oldpuck @Alovon11 @Dakhil @LiC @Thraktor @ReddDreadtheLead (just naming people who can check my work here, I got 3 hours of sleep and am powering through work on my second cup of coffee right now)

I recommend scrolling to the bottom and reading the TL;DR: first. It should give the immediate answers, if there is more questions about other aspects of the hardware, or if my explanation is long winded/not clear, please @me.

In order to understand the upgrade "Switch 2" offers, we first need to look at Switch specs:

CPU-


TX1 ARM, 4 A57 cores @1GHz (one core reserved for the OS)
T239 ARM, 8*A78C cores ~1GHz-2GHz (one core reserved for the OS)

Upgraded result to CPU:
A78 is 3 times faster than A57 cores per clock, giving between a 7 times and 14 times performance jump, A78 cores are also faster than Ryzen 2 cores used in PS5/XBS per clock, but clocked much lower, so a 2GHz clock would result in somewhere above 50% of the CPU resources found in PS5/XBS, and far beyond last gen consoles.

When compared to Steam Deck, Steam Deck has 4 cores and 8 threads, while Drake has 8 cores/threads, if Drake is clocked at 2GHz, it would offer a similar CPU resource to Steam Deck, although Steam Deck's CPUs clock to 3.5GHz, because pairs of threads share resources between each core, the overall performance drops here, with somewhere in the neighborhood of 70-80% of having 8 cores at that clock, Drake's 2GHz cores would offer ~70% of 8 cores at 3.5GHz so while Steam Deck has more CPU performance, but it shouldn't be by very much.


RAM-


TX1 4GB 64bit LPDDR4/LPDDR4X ~20GB/s in handheld mode, 25.6GB/s docked (~800MB reserved for os iirc)
T239 8GB to 16GB 128bit LPDDR5(x?) over 60GB/s in handheld mode, up to 102GB/s (137GB/s if lpddr5x).

Upgraded result to the RAM:
3.2GB RAM @20-25GB/s vs 7-15GB RAM @60-102GB/s, we are talking about 3 to 4 times the capacity and speed of Switch, 12GB is probably the most realistic capacity.

102GB/s would be around PS4's 176GB/s RAM speed when architecture advantage is taken into account, as these architectures are far more bandwidth efficient. This should allow for third parties to bring their games forward onto the platform without much problem, bandwidth is less an issue of direct comparison with other devices, and more about individual system's available bandwidth, this is about preventing bottlenecks, rather than increasing performance, so hard to say how this compares to current gen consoles, Steam Deck for instance has 88GB/s of memory bandwidth, but it's a good balance for that system.


Storage-


While storage is unknown, what we do know is the range of storage that could be used:
First, Switch's internal storage is 100MB/s, it uses EMMC.
When compared to Drake, EMMC actually has a speed of 400MB/s, so if it uses this type of memory, expect a 4 times increase in read speeds.

UFS is also a type of storage that could be used, here the minimum speed is twice as fast, and could easily match XBS internal storage if needed.


Load times-


This is a reflection of above's specs, it also would have something to do with the decompression block found in Drake, but lets just go over minimum gains, as that is where we should discuss this, and we will also only be talking about Switch gen 1 titles, because next gen titles we have no real idea about.

If you run across a Switch game (not in the cloud) that takes 30 seconds to load, Drake should load that same data in 7 seconds or less. Most Switch games load in about half that time, so here we are talking about ~3 seconds on Drake. It could be faster if it does use UFS, and there will always be rare hiccups where games just take longer to load, but the direct comparison here is over 4 times faster than Switch.


GPU-


TX1 256 Maxwell cuda cores @ 460MHz and 768MHz for 235GFLOPs and 393GFLOPs
T239 1536 Ampere cuda cores @ 660MHz* and 1125MHz* for 2TFLOPs and 3.456TFLOPs, 48 Tensor cores, 12 RT cores

TX1 Maxwell is a 2015 design that is the 3rd iteration of Maxwell, much closer to Pascal architecture, borrowing most noteably 16fp at 2:1 cuda cores, or twice the flops at half the precision.

Ampere is over half a decade newer, it has mesh shaders, VRS, and a slew of other GPU features, that increase raw speed beyond what paper math can tell you, I'll discuss DLSS a little later, because it's much clearer to see what it offers if we separate it from the other GPU features.

Drake's GPU is 6 times bigger than Switch's, in handheld mode given these speculative (possibly real) clocks, it would out perform PS4 before DLSS is used, again even beyond just having more raw performance over the PS4, it also has those GPU features that the 2011 GPU architecture found in PS4, is lacking. VRS is said to offer a 20% increase in performance, and mesh/geometry shaders, can offer 25% increase in performance as well, just these do features combined can add 50% performance increase to the same architecture per flop. Comparing GCN to Ampere is much less precise, but we can look at the raw performance here and conclude that Drake > PS4. β€œif the engine supports the features that is, which will enable the game to make use of it. However, even if these aren’t accounted for there’s been a decade of improvements between architectures of the early 2010s and architectures now, Drake should be ahead, and if all things are considered it should be more efficient at doing the job if enabling other unique features” -Redddeadthelead

When compared to Steam Deck's RDNA GPU, it has these features and while the GPU is generally clocked lower for 1.3TFLOPs, it can reach 1.6TFLOPs, and it does have these features, as well as a flop advantage over Ampere in PCs, however in a closed environment, Ampere should pick up ground, I'd put 1.6TFLOPs Steam Deck around the same as a 660MHz clocked (2TFLOPs) Drake GPU, before DLSS is applied. Once DLSS is applied, it can significantly drop the required performance and offer a higher resolution, and if Drake is capable of frame generation, it could further expand this lead, basically a PS4 Pro to XB1X in your hands at the very best, however it's best to just think of it as a Steam Deck with DLSS on top. (Steam Deck is also a poor FSR2 system, so it really can't offer it's own competitive upscaling tech).

When docked, Drake at 1.125GHz offers 3.456TFLOPs, this should be similar to XBSS' 4TFLOPs. DLSS should help it match whatever XBSS can do with FSR2, and if it comes with 12GB or more RAM, it might actually have less of a RAM issue than XBSS, even though the RAM is half as fast, because RAM speed is more about bottlenecks as I discussed above.


The TL;DR
Drake's CPU is somewhere around Steam Decks, slower, but in the ballpark. (more cores, same threads, less clock) ~85% of SD?
Drake's GPU in handheld should offer similar, but better performance over Steam Deck, ~130-200%
Drake's GPU in docked should match or exceed XBSS, thanks to DLSS being superior to FSR2. ~80-100%
Drake's RAM is 3 to 4 times the capacity and speed of Switch's, and should fit well with current gen consoles.
Drake's Storage is at least 4 times faster than Switch's and load times should shrink in Switch gen 1 games by over 4 times.
And like that, I am reassured that my astronomical expectations will probably be met!
 
So true! πŸ˜‚

I mean not just from a personal side of overconfidence, but also because I know enough about the technical details to be aware of the performance range.

That said, I think ZombI3 is off about one thing:

I think 12W mode is for TV mode, not just a stress test.

Much like the current Switch, developers will have options as to what performance profiles their games use. Some max it out, some barely use it. I think the 9W and 12W modes are two of these additional operating modes. 12W is within the power envelope of the existing Switch.
I think 12W is for the GPU alone
 
I think 12W is for the GPU alone
That would imply that the 4W mode is intensely power hungry, since CPU, screen and fan motor go on top of that. I can't say I'm convinced that they will do that. Especially since 4W is the stated total power consumption of handheld mode at present. It would be one heck of a coincidence for the next console to use the exact same amount of power... Just for its GPU.

I could be wrong, of course, but personally I don't see it!
 
So true! πŸ˜‚

I mean not just from a personal side of overconfidence, but also because I know enough about the technical details to be aware of the performance range.

That said, I think ZombI3 is off about one thing:

I think 12W mode is for TV mode, not just a stress test.

Much like the current Switch, developers will have options as to what performance profiles their games use. Some max it out, some barely use it. I think the 9W and 12W modes are two of these additional operating modes. 12W is within the power envelope of the existing Switch.
I think 12W is for the GPU alone
Yes, 12w is just the GPU's power consumption. The whole system itself would likely draw an additional 4 to 6 watts over the OG model if this was the case, however the OG model drew 8w for just the GPU at 768MHz, so a 9w with DLSS (this was a DLSS test afterall) is in line with what we could expect.

I don't actually know if these clocks are even used, but they were within my estimations at 5nm, and the nature of where they were found is compelling to conclude. Ultimately we might have to wait to find out these finer details, the chip is big enough and those specs are known enough, to make some pretty conclusive assumptions about it's performance IMO.
That would imply that the 4W mode is intensely power hungry, since CPU, screen and fan motor go on top of that. I can't say I'm convinced that they will do that. Especially since 4W is the stated total power consumption of handheld mode at present. It would be one heck of a coincidence for the next console to use the exact same amount of power... Just for its GPU.

I could be wrong, of course, but personally I don't see it!
The original Switch's GPU used around 4w actually, and a little under for Zelda. The whole system used 7.1w (in botw) with the screen at minimum brightness and everything turned off. 9w with everything up and on.
 
Fuck, my thirst for this little beast of a machine has increased. Sweet sweet specs talk. Even the lower end of expectations is more than solid.
 
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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