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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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With how common ~6inch samsung 90hz panels are nowadays (I know, not 16:9, but still) I wonder if nintendo would even bother with HFR this gen...
up to 90hz in portable mode - 120hz in docked would be nice imo

Only reason why I think they'd want it is VR if they decide to invest further into the whole idea of the switch tablet as a headset idea they (kinda) tried with the switch. Because competitive games like splatoon? wouldn't be a worthwhile effort considering the server tick rates.
Maybe smash ultimate and 2d titles considering nintendo doesn't care much about online smash and focus on local play instead.
 
Another reason why I think nintendo won't bring HFR to the table this gen (maybe not even the next one after drake*) is how like nearly if not all nintendo first party titles are programmed with game physics and animation speed tied to framerate (use an emulator and you'll see it for yourself).
Can't see them patching a bunch of games.

*if nintendo decides to focus this gen on solid 1080p60 or 4k30 (upscaled, obviously), the next focus will probably be on 4k60.
Nintendo has always been pretty conservative when it comes to video output, I don't think they'll support 1440p, ever. ultrawide? no chance. FHD 120FPS is like a matter of "does it make sense for us to invest in VR now?" imo
 
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kimbo99 said:
Thoughts on Nintendo giving "free" upgrades to 1st part Switch games on Switch 2 via Expansion pass? Non-Expansion Pass would be some sort of charge for upgrade.
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If Nintendo is going to make upgrade patches, i doubt they'll ask money or an certain sub tier for them.

They would be free, but there won't be many. Only the evergreens and recent releases.
 
niconiconick64 said:
With how common ~6inch samsung 90hz panels are nowadays (I know, not 16:9, but still) I wonder if nintendo would even bother with HFR this gen...
up to 90hz in portable mode - 120hz in docked would be nice imo

Only reason why I think they'd want it is VR if they decide to invest further into the whole idea of the switch tablet as a headset idea they (kinda) tried with the switch. Because competitive games like splatoon? wouldn't be a worthwhile effort considering the server tick rates.
Maybe smash ultimate and 2d titles considering nintendo doesn't care much about online smash and focus on local play instead.
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panels are made to order, almost like chips are. if nintendo wants it, they'll get it.

kimbo99 said:
Thoughts on Nintendo giving "free" upgrades to 1st part Switch games on Switch 2 via Expansion pass? Non-Expansion Pass would be some sort of charge for upgrade.
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I just expect resolution and maybe frame rate updates. no other work, so no added costs
 
kimbo99 said:
Thoughts on Nintendo giving "free" upgrades to 1st part Switch games on Switch 2 via Expansion pass? Non-Expansion Pass would be some sort of charge for upgrade.
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If those aren't 100% free that certainly won't help them to sell more devices & get the current userbase to move to the better hardware.
 
NateDrake said:
Have been hearing a few things in recent weeks but nothing I want to comment on in the present until I'm given additional information.
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I don't know how you can take this as either good or bad, no matter what you're opinion on the Drake situation is. I mean, other than it being good that more info would seem to be forthcoming. Even then, no guarantee anything will be shared.

(pretend I shopped Nate's head onto the body and Mario Sunshine onto the tv screen)

35209b13-940f-4438-ac4a-5dd7d9d94c85_screenshot.jpg
 
kimbo99 said:
Thoughts on Nintendo giving "free" upgrades to 1st part Switch games on Switch 2 via Expansion pass? Non-Expansion Pass would be some sort of charge for upgrade.
Click to expand...

It is dumb enough that Nintendo would do it. But also? Nintendo isn't going to revisit anything that isn't selling a ton amd upgrade it so there is little point to doing so. Raising the framerate cap and raising the resolution is the most we should expect. And that will honestly be plenty.
 
kimbo99 said:
Thoughts on Nintendo giving "free" upgrades to 1st part Switch games on Switch 2 via Expansion pass? Non-Expansion Pass would be some sort of charge for upgrade.
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I don't expect them to charge for upgrades. Makes a whole lot more sense strategically to just release them as patches.
 
Nintendo's already released patches that use an increased CPU clock speed to improve loading times.

I can see resolution and frame rate patches being free, and Deluxe remasters down the line for more involved upgrades.
 
Stinky Horse said:
Same reason they did the same for the inside. Because it was new to them. And if it was new to them (giving details like the battery being moved away from the edge) why would you trust them to have a good insight on unreleased models?
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Ah, I missed your post from earlier addressing this. Apologies.
 
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I fully expect Nintendo to only pick a select few games and sell their upgraded versions as new full-priced "4K" editions, while the rest will be left untouched and at best hit native 1080p, better (or at least more stable) framerate and loading times. There's no such thing as a free upgrade across generations in the Nintendo ecosystem.

Third-party games will obviously be left to the discretion of their publisher.
 
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Hosermess said:
I don't know how you can take this as either good or bad, no matter what you're opinion on the Drake situation is. I mean, other than it being good that more info would seem to be forthcoming. Even then, no guarantee anything will be shared.

(pretend I shopped Nate's head onto the body and Mario Sunshine onto the tv screen)

35209b13-940f-4438-ac4a-5dd7d9d94c85_screenshot.jpg
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you're probably right but I get strong bad news vibes from that statement
 
We all know Nintendo is shitty about pricing but I cant see them coming out and charging full price for frame boosts and resolution increases with some minimal texture improvements. Those things will sell more copies on their own given their catalogue is already still full price than trying to squeeze the same consumers to buy a game again.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Making new textures isn't free, but neither is reprogramming a graphics engine to work with fancier hardware.
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they ain't gonna do either of those things. we've seen how this will play out with Series and PS5. BC+ as DF calls it is just the One/PS4 games with higher limits that's hidden. Nintendo can do the same. you don't need to reprogram an engine to go from 30fps to 60fps or from 900p to 1440p

if you did, then there's a much bigger problem with technical debt
 
kimbo99 said:
Thoughts on Nintendo giving "free" upgrades to 1st part Switch games on Switch 2 via Expansion pass? Non-Expansion Pass would be some sort of charge for upgrade.
Click to expand...

My realistic expectation as of now is that the next hardware will run Switch games better through backwards compatibility, but I'm not expecting any patches/upgrades to be free. I'm thinking that Nintendo might re-release 'definitive edition' versions of Switch games, i.e BOTW with 4k/60fps and all of the DLC in one $60 package
 
kimbo99 said:
Thoughts on Nintendo giving "free" upgrades to 1st part Switch games on Switch 2 via Expansion pass? Non-Expansion Pass would be some sort of charge for upgrade.
Click to expand...
Nintendo is not dumb, I expect the patches/upgrades to be free.
They have to make sure the next gen Switch sells no matter what, as they have only one line of hardware from now on.
I fully expect them to be as much "pro-consumer" as possible during the launch year. They cannot afford to screw this up, and they know it.
 
Truno said:
My realistic expectation as of now is that the next hardware will run Switch games better through backwards compatibility, but I'm not expecting any patches/upgrades to be free. I'm thinking that Nintendo might re-release 'definitive edition' versions of Switch games, i.e BOTW with 4k/60fps and all of the DLC in one $60 package
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That's more or less along the lines of what I was thinking(if they even bother doing it)
 
kimbo99 said:
That's more or less along the lines of what I was thinking(if they even bother doing it)
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Putting upgrades on the expansion pass would be ideal when compared to my expectation. All I know is that Nintendo doesn't work for free and they know that most people are picking up the new hardware for exclusive titles
 
Homura said:
Nintendo is not dumb, I expect the patches/upgrades to be free.
They have to make sure the next gen Switch sells no matter what, as they have only one line of hardware from now on.
I fully expect them to be as much "pro-consumer" as possible during the launch year. They cannot afford to screw this up, and they know it.
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The next Switch is gonna sell no matter what so the stance on upgrade fees is a negligible concern. The only way they get people to not buy the system is not offering BC and/or not having the software.

As we see with PS people are already being trained to expect upgrade fees so it wouldn’t be abnormal for Nintendo to join in. They’ve done it once already, if you wanted.
 
Here I thought something happened since we got a few pages in a day and it’s just baseless pessimism. Whelp.

Device obviously exists. We just don’t know when it’s coming.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Making new textures isn't free, but neither is reprogramming a graphics engine to work with fancier hardware.
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Patching the game isn't free (though they're not going to massively rework anything, just tweak some parameters and retest), but it doesn't make sense to charge for it. The smart move is just to have it ride along with other development efforts, like paid DLC.
 
I expect the free patches to be similar to what homebrew cheats have already done, edits via configuration file tweaks or modifying a flag in the game code to enable higher res or 60 FPS, taking advantage of an overclock.

Speaking of which, here's 60 FPS No Man's Sky on a Mariko Switch. For funzies.

 
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If the patches mainly are "play your game in 4K on the TV" it would be a really bad idea to not have them free because it would take away a direct selling point of this device. I mean the marketing alone would be really confusing. People will buy this new hardware for better visuals but then they have to pay even more.

Though I could see them having exclusive NSO stuff for the Switch 2. I want a Nintendo Switch Pro Shirt in TOTK.
 
ILikeFeet said:
they ain't gonna do either of those things. we've seen how this will play out with Series and PS5. BC+ as DF calls it is just the One/PS4 games with higher limits that's hidden. Nintendo can do the same. you don't need to reprogram an engine to go from 30fps to 60fps or from 900p to 1440p

if you did, then there's a much bigger problem with technical debt
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Even if the method of BC is friendly enough to just let base Switch games run with fewer limits (unlike GBA or DS or 3DS or Wii or Wii U), games specifically built around 30 are going to need work done to go to 60. And they're definitely still going to need work done to run at resolutions beyond the maximum possible base Switch resolution.
Truno said:
Putting upgrades on the expansion pass would be ideal when compared to my expectation. All I know is that Nintendo doesn't work for free and
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Some bigger Switch games continued getting random free updates for years. If they can bother to add updates to major games to support cardboard Labo contraptions or Ring Fit wheels, doing something with an actual new console seems a no-brainer.
Tentacle-tropes said:
As we see with PS people are already being trained to expect upgrade fees so it wouldn’t be abnormal for Nintendo to join in. They’ve done it once already, if you wanted.
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I don't think upgrade fees are unreasonable, but seems like the minority of games charging for upgrades got plenty of backlash. That training isn't going so well.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
I don't think upgrade fees are unreasonable, but seems like the minority of games charging for upgrades got plenty of backlash. That training isn't going so well.
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They got so much backlash that Sony is just trucking on ahead with upgrade fees. Whether people like it or not they will be trained much like with paid dlc, mtx, paid online, & possibly blockchain & nft.
Jim Ryan: "Moving forward, PlayStation first-party exclusive cross-gen titles (newly releasing on PS4 & PS5)-both digital and physical*-will offer a $10 digital upgrade option from PS4 to PS5," he wrote a blog post. "This will apply to the next God of War and Gran Turismo 7, and any other exclusive cross-gen PS4 & PS5 title published by Sony Interactive Entertainment."
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The current backlash is a blip all things considered. All Sony needs to do is get people to just (grudgingly) use it to set precedent for other companies to follow.
 
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JoshuaJSlone said:
Even if the method of BC is friendly enough to just let base Switch games run with fewer limits (unlike GBA or DS or 3DS or Wii or Wii U), games specifically built around 30 are going to need work done to go to 60. And they're definitely still going to need work done to run at resolutions beyond the maximum possible base Switch resolution.
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those games probably wouldn't get upgrades anyway if they're so beholden to their set resolution. and I don't think any nintendo game is now. as for the resolution, it's non-zero work to implement but I don't think they'll charge for it.

the only games I see even getting updates are the ones that are still selling, so the cost for the work would be covered by the continued sales of the games
 
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Eh, I think any little extra incentive for Switch owners to upgrade/Switch-holdouts to purchase Drake will be more beneficial to Nintendo in the long run than the dev cost of any free Drake patches. And the sooner the better.
 
Hosermess said:
Eh, I think any little extra incentive for Switch owners to upgrade/Switch-holdouts to purchase Drake will be more beneficial to Nintendo in the long run than the dev cost of any free Drake patches. And the sooner the better.
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Not sure how it’s gonna be beneficial in the long run since I think the Drake will be sold out/hard to find in the short & medium term. Anything after that is momentum in the software space.
 
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CypressFX said:
So what are these Asian forums whispering? Cancellation or what?
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The opposite.
ffr48 said:
Speaking of the backplate rumors, here is the latest post from factory uncle:
* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *

It’s a conversation between factory uncle and another user. Here is the original conversation.
-新机明年真的能出吗，生产线的消息感觉没爆出多少来啊
-明年还是很乐观的
067.png

不过效率这玩意不好说，得过了今年商战，明年再看了
067.png

And here is my personal translation:
Another user: Can the new model really come out next year? There is too less information from the production line.
Factory uncle: It’s still optimistic for expecting a next year launch. But the production efficiency is hard to say. Anyways, we should wait for the holiday season passing and the next year coming.

I checked his posting history and found he claimed the next year launch multiple times since September. So I assume the test production is over and the factory is waiting for the mass production.
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I'll never understand this forum's need for constant reassurance. Nothing has changed in the past few months, we've only gotten more hard evidence that this exists.
 
oldpuck said:
They just about have to use it in portable mode. DLSS isn't just an upscale, it also does AA, and requiring games to swap their AA implementation when going handheld mode is a bastard for a number of reasons.

Technically, I don't expect DLSS in handheld mode, but DLAA. I can't remember if this was in my post, like I said, it was eaten and hurriedly rewritten, but the tensor cores are obviously going to be slower in handheld mode. If you preserve the performance per-pixel scaling factor, then DLAA should take an identical frame time to your upscale in docked mode.
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The if any wasn’t about using DLSS, it was about using ultra quality mode in PM.

As for DLAA, I don’t know about that. DLAA has a performance penalty that is associated to it. Meanwhile with the SS, it doesn’t have that same kind of perf penalty.
 
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ReddDreadtheLead said:
The if any wasn’t about using DLSS, it was about using ultra quality mode in PM.

As for DLAA, I don’t know about that. DLAA has a performance penalty that is associated to it. Meanwhile with the SS, it doesn’t have that same kind of perf penalty.
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If it really does end up being the case that portable has 0% resolution increase, that should be fine. Or at least, whatever native resolution it's rendering will be much closer to 720p than the docked version gets to 4K or even 1440.
 
Skittzo said:
I'll never understand this forum's need for constant reassurance. Nothing has changed in the past few months, we've only gotten more hard evidence that this exists.
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In the time of transition between Nintendo consoles, doubt always springs eternal. I mean this is Nintendo, wildest card in the gaming space
 
It's like the time in between when Nate confirms a rough Direct timeframe and the actual announcement. Everyone asking him for reassurance day after day. Just stretched out to about 2 years.

When was the last time, if ever, that Nate let us down on a Direct date? He was still correct about the OLED/Drake snafu and everything he's said has been in line with Mochizuki's articles.
 
AxkilAvenger said:
In the time of transition between Nintendo consoles, doubt always springs eternal. I mean this is Nintendo, wildest card in the gaming space
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They're not really though. They release new hardware every two years, going back probably several decades.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
If it really does end up being the case that portable has 0% resolution increase, that should be fine. Or at least, whatever native resolution it's rendering will be much closer to 720p than the docked version gets to 4K or even 1440.
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In this scenario that the next device is 0% resolution increase, the difference would be rendering the game at 720p with DLAA, and having a perf penalty versus running the game at 540p and using DLSS up to 720p and not having that same perf penalty, but actually perhaps gaining more performance to better hold a target frame rate.

while still giving a comparable image at that screen size.


Just to be clear: This is assuming the most extreme scenario of course in which the games need to be super sampled to 720p


Like say a game that struggles to be 1440p on a Ps5 for example.



That said, I completely forgot about this other element, it’s not as though Nvidia cannot train the model to recognize images at the targets of 720p and tweaks the algorithm or alter the algorithm to be way more precise for 720p regardless of the input image resolution. Likewise for docked mode, it could be a much better trained model for 1440p, 1682p, 1800p or 2160p.


(this isn’t cheaper)
 
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ReddDreadtheLead said:
The if any wasn’t about using DLSS, it was about using ultra quality mode in PM.

As for DLAA, I don’t know about that. DLAA has a performance penalty that is associated to it. Meanwhile with the SS, it doesn’t have that perf penalty.
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DLAA's performance penalty is smaller than DLSS's, it's just not countered by a performance win by dropping the internal res. They're the same pipeline, DLAA is just running DLSS where the output and the input resolution are the same. DLSS performance scales with the upscaling factor, DLAA is DLSS as a 0% scaling factor, as fast as it is capable of running.

My point (poorly made) was that tensor core performance scales with GPU performance. If, in docked mode, you're running a game at 1080p internal, 4k output, then at 50% of that GPU, you should be able to render 720p internal at the same frame rate, which should be able to run DLAA (DLSS at 0% scaling) even at half the tensor core performance.

If, however, your performance gap doesn't match your internal resolution gap between handheld and docked mode, you get crunched from both sides. DLSS upscaling time goes up as tensor performance goes down, so if your handheld performance isn't enough to do 720p at the same frame rate, you need to upscale, but your upscaling process is running at reduced speed as well.
 
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