StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[LuffyDawn]

What a time ! Thank you !

 

[rick_C]

I remembered that Nintendo announced the codename so early, is to prevent people misunderstand that Nintendo going to leave console market, as Nintendo was making mobile game with DeNA. So I don't think the same case can be applied now.

 

[Andre3333456]

Is there any other use of the word muji in the code other than from Nintendo?

 

[chocolate_supra]

You got me there.

It's just that I'm skeptical the codename would somehow manage to remain a secret this close to tentative March 2025 launch. Haven't the real codenames always been known for every console before they launched, historically? Maybe not, but sure seems that way to me.

They have been known before launch but again, that's because Nintendo was referring to them by their codenames in the press before they were officially revealed. Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Nintendo was openly calling the Gamecube "Project Dolphin" and the Wii "Project Revolution" before the respective names were known.

do we have a figure for it? I don't recall

14mm I think

 

[Zedark]

I don't believe Switch 2 will use low quality assets.

The machine that have these is the XBox Series S because it targeting on 1080p only, but switch 2 probably will try to make a bigger resolutions, thanks to DLSS.

For what I read here, DLSS still needs the high quality textures to make a game in 4K. So, switch 2 will need to send these for the cuda cores and gpu do the trick.

But since a portable uses slow memory and has a lower bandwidth, that can be a little trick. The solution that looks like they will use is put a data's descompressor on the hardware. That way switch 2 will be able to receive a compacted texture (like a 1 GB of high quality textures compacted in 200 MB, for example) , what will make possible to traffic that amount of data without a hit because of bandwidth or lack of more memory.

That way games with 144p or 4k will look good on Switch 2.

Sure, Switch 2 could use higher quality assets than XSS, but probably lower ones than PS5 and XSX. There is a power limit that means that it doesn't make sense to use the same quality assets as PS5/XSX since raw power won't be able to hit similar visual fidelity even with DLSS. And that's fine and expected, of course. But it would suggest that asset quality (not only texture resolution, but also model polygon count and density) will be lower, which in turn suggests that you can make do with less RAM. Everything will always be a trade-off in console game development, and especially in hybrid console game development, but as far as trade-offs go, 12GB of RAM with better bandwidth seems like something of a sweet point in that trade-off to me.

 

[Semi Lazy Gamer]

GVG has joined the hype.

 

[Individualised]

They have been known before launch but again, that's because Nintendo was referring to them by their codenames in the press before they were officially revealed. Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Nintendo was openly calling the Gamecube "Project Dolphin" and the Wii "Project Revolution" before the respective names were known.

They did. They even released Wii renders to the press with a Revolution logo in place of the Wii one.

 

[carbvan]

GVG has joined the hype.

50 minutes?? I find GVG to be pretty alright so hopefully they didn't feed their viewers "It's a portable Series S!". I'd be pretty disappointed if so.

edit: 10 minutes in. Not too bad... but they brought up the Capcom increasing the Switch's ram story lol.

They got some wild takes. 3gb OS??? Dock with expandable storage?? They don't seem to know about the MicroSD Express stuff.

Steve seems pretty convinced the OS will need to be big for social features like VC, messaging, etc. Imo, I don't see Nintendo adding those features in for awhile. It's a big safety hazard for children and, maybe this is just a personal anecdote, most people just use 3rd party apps to communicate anyway.

Ok honestly there's not much to this video at all. Watched it at 1.5x speed. I think I'm gonna make a forum post asking a question about a major part of this video tho.

 

[LiC]

They have been known before launch but again, that's because Nintendo was referring to them by their codenames in the press before they were officially revealed. Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Nintendo was openly calling the Gamecube "Project Dolphin" and the Wii "Project Revolution" before the respective names were known.

Most or all of the ones that Nintendo didn't announce leaked too, though. CTR was leaked from an FCC filing in May 2010, and Cafe was leaked from reporting on Nintendo's communication with third-party devs all the way back in April 2011. The latter is especially relevant here.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

It is finally out, and makes it easier for me to talk about this below:

so when I found out about Muji 無印, of course I googled it to know the meaning of it, getting the result of “no-brand” especially from Mujiyoshi brand of stores. We have three stores across the entirety of the United States, and the closest one to me is almost 30 minutes away (they are nice goods btw, if you live in NY give it a visit but it’s not cheap!).


Anyway, I of course remembered to split up the word to its characters, we have Mu and we have Ji. Keep in mind this is with my limited understanding of the Japanese language and also limited understanding of what Buddhism is, with that out the way…

Mu, or 無, in the way of Buddha can be interpreted differently, a story of a priest or a Monk asking a Master if a Dog is Buddha Nature or not, to which he responds to the Monk with “Mu” or “Not”. Mu can be literally interpreted as him saying no, but the Zen Buddhist teachings has that anything (even a dog) can reach Buddha, so it is the Monk’s thought of not thinking of a Human but of any creature. A challenge of traditional dualistic concepts of Yes or No. To think outside of the box. To practice Mu, you open a space in your mind that lets you achieve enlightenment.

When it came to Ji, or 印, it meant simply Mark, or Stamp or a Seal, but like in the last one I took the Zen Buddhist approach and Ji can be a metaphorical representation of “the Seal of Buddha” or a confirmation of being enlightened..


You are saying, “ok redd, but what are you getting at?” The eagle eyed reader saw it, but this is the most Nintendo codename ever. It simply means “Muji” or “no-name” or “no-brand” or “unmarked” etc.


But if you just change your perspective, Muji can metaphorically reflect this:


“To challenge conventional thinking and duality, is to confirm being enlightened or allowing yourself to become the enlightened”


This is by far, in my opinion anyway, the most simple yet the most perfect Nintendo codename and perfectly reflects how and what they are and encapsulates.



(Note: I’m not a Buddhist or speak Japanese and it’s just from some researching and reading how something so simple can be more than, and for fun)

 

[Darknut85]

Well, atleast this time the codename has a meaning.

 

[TLZ]

Nintendo R&Ds, buys, and then ships console parts they have 0 intent to use just to fuck with us. Would be some pretty funny 4D chess.

This is Furukawa

 

[Jahranimo]

This is Furukawa

Please Be Aware

 

[ertaboy356b]

It is finally out, and makes it easier for me to talk about this below:

so when I found out about Muji 無印, of course I googled it to know the meaning of it, getting the result of “no-brand” especially from Mujiyoshi brand of stores. We have three stores across the entirety of the United States, and the closest one to me is almost 30 minutes away (they are nice goods btw, if you live in NY give it a visit but it’s not cheap!).


Anyway, I of course remembered to split up the word to its characters, we have Mu and we have Ji. Keep in mind this is with my limited understanding of the Japanese language and also limited understanding of what Buddhism is, with that out the way…

Mu, or 無, in the way of Buddha can be interpreted differently, a story of a priest or a Monk asking a Master if a Dog is Buddha Nature or not, to which he responds to the Monk with “Mu” or “Not”. Mu can be literally interpreted as him saying no, but the Zen Buddhist teachings has that anything (even a dog) can reach Buddha, so it is the Monk’s thought of not thinking of a Human but of any creature. A challenge of traditional dualistic concepts of Yes or No. To think outside of the box. To practice Mu, you open a space in your mind that lets you achieve enlightenment.

When it came to Ji, or 印, it meant simply Mark, or Stamp or a Seal, but like in the last one I took the Zen Buddhist approach and Ji can be a metaphorical representation of “the Seal of Buddha” or a confirmation of being enlightened..


You are saying, “ok redd, but what are you getting at?” The eagle eyed reader saw it, but this is the most Nintendo codename ever. It simply means “Muji” or “no-name” or “no-brand” or “unmarked” etc.


But if you just change your perspective, Muji can metaphorically reflect this:


“To challenge conventional thinking and duality, is to confirm being enlightened or allowing yourself to become the enlightened”


This is by far, in my opinion anyway, the most simple yet the most perfect Nintendo codename and perfectly reflects how and what they are and encapsulates.



(Note: I’m not a Buddhist or speak Japanese and it’s just from some researching and reading how something so simple can be more than, and for fun)

Thanks for the write-up. One thing that comes to mind after reading this is transparency. Would be great if we somehow get transparent or semi-transparent shells again.

 

[Superfirebros447]

Muji.

You knew lol.

 

[chocolate_supra]

It is finally out, and makes it easier for me to talk about this below:

so when I found out about Muji 無印, of course I googled it to know the meaning of it, getting the result of “no-brand” especially from Mujiyoshi brand of stores. We have three stores across the entirety of the United States, and the closest one to me is almost 30 minutes away (they are nice goods btw, if you live in NY give it a visit but it’s not cheap!).


Anyway, I of course remembered to split up the word to its characters, we have Mu and we have Ji. Keep in mind this is with my limited understanding of the Japanese language and also limited understanding of what Buddhism is, with that out the way…

Mu, or 無, in the way of Buddha can be interpreted differently, a story of a priest or a Monk asking a Master if a Dog is Buddha Nature or not, to which he responds to the Monk with “Mu” or “Not”. Mu can be literally interpreted as him saying no, but the Zen Buddhist teachings has that anything (even a dog) can reach Buddha, so it is the Monk’s thought of not thinking of a Human but of any creature. A challenge of traditional dualistic concepts of Yes or No. To think outside of the box. To practice Mu, you open a space in your mind that lets you achieve enlightenment.

When it came to Ji, or 印, it meant simply Mark, or Stamp or a Seal, but like in the last one I took the Zen Buddhist approach and Ji can be a metaphorical representation of “the Seal of Buddha” or a confirmation of being enlightened..


You are saying, “ok redd, but what are you getting at?” The eagle eyed reader saw it, but this is the most Nintendo codename ever. It simply means “Muji” or “no-name” or “no-brand” or “unmarked” etc.


But if you just change your perspective, Muji can metaphorically reflect this:


“To challenge conventional thinking and duality, is to confirm being enlightened or allowing yourself to become the enlightened”


This is by far, in my opinion anyway, the most simple yet the most perfect Nintendo codename and perfectly reflects how and what they are and encapsulates.



(Note: I’m not a Buddhist or speak Japanese and it’s just from some researching and reading how something so simple can be more than, and for fun)

A native Japanese speaker here said it strikes him as a placeholder.

 

[NateDrake]

The codename the successor to Nintendo Switch™ is very Nintendo like, definitely.

Not sure if sarcasm...

I didn't say the term wasn't the code name. I said it's not being use in communications or documentation with partners.

 

[ZonaiResearcher]

Well, atleast this time the codename has a meaning.

Has there ever been a codename that wasn’t in English though? Project Reality, Dolphin, Revolution, Project Cafe, NX were all English or English-based codenames in the case of NX.

 

[Wockio]

Someone already made a subreddit

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

... I am often made to feel uncomfortable by you, leading me to disengage, yes.

To be clear, I am a woman, not a girl. Please do not infantalise people. The history and culture of the infantalisation of women does not escape me.

Ok, ma’am. You don’t like when I challenge what you say because what you say is leading people to believe something that’s gonna put them in a position of being disappointed. I’m going by what is physically realistic, you’re going by something that is not at all physically realistic.


And when I say “always like this”, I was not referring to me. I was referring to anyone else because I actually avoid speaking with you due to this reason, it’ll end up drawn out and you’ll cover your ears and refuse to actually entertain or bother with what is said only saying the other is wrong without actually backing up why. If you don’t want to accept physics, that’s one thing. And that’s on you, and no one else. But I’m having a difficult time seeing how a GPU that is much smaller than the one in the PS4 Pro is going to beat it before DLSS. And the console thing I mentioned before etc.

Can it do things way more efficiently? Yes! Does that mean outperforms it? Absolutely not!



This isn’t far from someone saying Switch 2 will produce Series X tier visuals the other day, which while great, will lead to disappointment I fear! Thread goes through swings and I just wish we could better communicate it from the switch vs switch 2, rather than switch 2 vs say… PS5.

Getting to PS5, Xbox Series examples is pouring WUST energy where it shouldn’t really be!

 

[carbvan]

Someone already made a subreddit

this is goofy as hell lmao. Is there an NX subreddit that is still relevant? Seems like this kind of subreddit would die once the real name is revealed.

 

[Atheerios]

Not sure if sarcasm...

I didn't say the term wasn't the code name. I said it's not being use in communications or documentation with partners.

Sorry, yes, it was sarcasm.

 

[Darknut85]

Ok, ma’am. You don’t like when I challenge what you say because what you say is leading people to believe something that’s gonna put them in a position of being disappointed. I’m going by what is physically realistic, you’re going by something that is not at all physically realistic.


And when I say “always like this”, I was not referring to me. I was referring to anyone else because I actually avoid speaking with you due to this reason, it’ll end up drawn out and you’ll cover your ears and refuse to actually entertain or bother with what is said only saying the other is wrong without actually backing up why. If you don’t want to accept physics, that’s one thing. And that’s on you, and no one else. But I’m having a difficult time seeing how a GPU that is much smaller than the one in the PS4 Pro is going to beat it before DLSS. And the console thing I mentioned before etc.

Can it do things way more efficiently? Yes! Does that mean outperforms it? Absolutely not!



This isn’t far from someone saying Switch 2 will produce Series X tier visuals the other day, which while great, will lead to disappointment I fear! Thread goes through swings and I just wish we could better communicate it from the switch vs switch 2, rather than switch 2 vs say… PS5.

Getting to PS5, Xbox Series examples is pouring WUST energy where it shouldn’t really be!

How can the Switch outperform the much bigger PS3? Switch 2 will have a dedicated memory compression engine, a much better CPU, higher RAM, more modern architecture, more cache, etc. than PS4 Pro. We still don’t know the clocks, but it‘ll probably be near (or even possibly higher than) PS4 Pro in Teraflops performance docked. I don’t think it’s unrealistic that Switch 2 will outperform it, without taking DLSS into account (in most cases). Physical chip size just doesn’t matter.

 

[gnetc]

Man this thing sounds like it’s going to be a beast of a system.

An awesome moment would be when they finally present the console and show off some games and then say, “We’ve been missing something” throw on the DLSS switch and see the performance jump.

Just a cringey nerd moment for me personally.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

Ok, ma’am. You don’t like when I challenge what you say because what you say is leading people to believe something that’s gonna put them in a position of being disappointed. I’m going by what is physically realistic, you’re going by something that is not at all physically realistic.


And when I say “always like this”, I was not referring to me. I was referring to anyone else because I actually avoid speaking with you due to this reason, it’ll end up drawn out and you’ll cover your ears and refuse to actually entertain or bother with what is said only saying the other is wrong without actually backing up why. If you don’t want to accept physics, that’s one thing. And that’s on you, and no one else. But I’m having a difficult time seeing how a GPU that is much smaller than the one in the PS4 Pro is going to beat it before DLSS. And the console thing I mentioned before etc.

Can it do things way more efficiently? Yes! Does that mean outperforms it? Absolutely not!



This isn’t far from someone saying Switch 2 will produce Series X tier visuals the other day, which while great, will lead to disappointment I fear! Thread goes through swings and I just wish we could better communicate it from the switch vs switch 2, rather than switch 2 vs say… PS5.

Getting to PS5, Xbox Series examples is pouring WUST energy where it shouldn’t really be!

I agree with most of your conclusions, I only take issue with one of your points, while the switch2 is a hybrid gaming console, it is inevitably competing in the marketplace with 9th gen consoles, so while it's not possible to make any easy comparisons, you inevitably have to give with the average gamer to illustrate whether or not there is a comparative target for the switch2 in terms of visuals.

The underlying logic here is that Nintendo has been moving away from the Yokoi Gunpei era's "parallel thinking with withered technology" methodology since the Wiiu, so while Nintendo still doesn't compete in mainstream gaming, it's always keeping up with cutting-edge graphic technology.

 

[Wockio]

this is goofy as hell lmao. Is there an NX subreddit that is still relevant? Seems like this kind of subreddit would die once the real name is revealed.

There was a NX subreddit that was very active during 2016, but it was shut down the day of the Switch reveal in favor of the actual Switch subreddit.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

I definitely agree people should temper their expectations in comparison to the series S, but are you saying docked switch 2 won't even be able to match PS4 Pro just from a raw horsepower perspective?

I definitely agree people should temper their expectations in comparison to the series S, but are you saying docked switch 2 won't even be able to match PS4 Pro just from a raw horsepower perspective?

It shouldn’t be able to, it should be more efficient at handling certain tasks than the PS4 Pro’s GPU. But to keep in mind, the GPU was overspecced and underserved. It had a pathetic CPU and a really poor bandwidth increase from the base model.

It had features but they were more treated to supplant what was already there on the base model. It was a later iteration of the GCN Micro architecture. But it is still a much smaller GPU than that of the PS4 Pro’s GPU. Had it been say, hm, 24CUs as opposed to 36 I think a good argument can be made that it should outdo it just fine but it’s 50% more than that. That’s 36Cores vs 12! PS4 pro GPU for what it was, was fairly fast all things considered.


Series S is a modern GPU at the end of the day, not really old at all. It has all those modern feature sets and whatnot that the T239 also has.


But, that isn’t To say that Drake won’t have advantages, it definitely will especially having double the memory of the PS4 Pro and more mem than the series S, but it’s also lower in bandwidth. Optimization will matter a lot for this and also compared to the other systems as well.

DLSS allows them to achieve what a bigger GPU does while also not being larger, but better than the PS4 Pro and worse than Series S before DLSS doesn’t imply what it’s thought to mean! If it’s that good, then people would be getting PS5 and Series X class visuals!


A good way I would personally put it is that, it is able to achieve visuals of a system that would be sitting somewhere in between the Series S and the PS5/XBSX with DLSS.

And we have a console for that.

It’s called the One X.


Unless this thing is clocked obscenely high for some reason that is beyond what I’m thinking* at all for TV mode

*(2.8-3.9TFLOPS)

 

[Darknut85]

It shouldn’t be able to, it should be more efficient at handling certain tasks than the PS4 Pro’s GPU. But to keep in mind, the GPU was overspecced and underserved. It had a pathetic CPU and a really poor bandwidth increase from the base model.

It had features but they were more treated to supplant what was already there on the base model. It was a later iteration of the GCN Micro architecture. But it is still a much smaller GPU than that of the PS4 Pro’s GPU. Had it been say, hm, 24CUs as opposed to 36 I think a good argument can be made that it should outdo it just fine but it’s 50% more than that. That’s 36Cores vs 12! PS4 pro GPU for what it was, was fairly fast all things considered.


Series S is a modern GPU at the end of the day, not really old at all. It has all those modern feature sets and whatnot that the T239 also has.


But, that isn’t To say that Drake won’t have advantages, it definitely will especially having double the memory of the PS4 Pro and more mem than the series S, but it’s also lower in bandwidth. Optimization will matter a lot for this and also compared to the other systems as well.

DLSS allows them to achieve what a bigger GPU does while also not being larger, but better than the PS4 Pro and worse than Series S before DLSS doesn’t imply what it’s thought to mean! If it’s that good, then people would be getting PS5 and Series X class visuals!


A good way I would personally put it is that, it is able to achieve visuals of a system that would be sitting somewhere in between the Series S and the PS5/XBSX with DLSS.

And we have a console for that.

It’s called the One X.


Unless this thing is clocked obscenely high for some reason that is beyond what I’m thinking* at all for TV mode

*(2.8-3.9TFLOPS)

2CUs (64 Shader units) = 1SM (128 Shader units)
It‘s 18 to 12.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Well, atleast this time the codename has a meaning.

Technically it doesn’t have a meaning, I just gave it a different meaning.

 

[chocolate_supra]

Ok, ma’am. You don’t like when I challenge what you say because what you say is leading people to believe something that’s gonna put them in a position of being disappointed. I’m going by what is physically realistic, you’re going by something that is not at all physically realistic.

Are you seriously snarking her after she told you she's being made uncomfortable with the language you refer to her with? Really? And then acting like you're somehow protecting other users from what she's saying?

Especially when her initial argument about the Switch 2 not needing DLSS to come close to Series S or PS4 Pro is something that's been supported by the findings in this thread for a long time. Depending on the process node and clocks being used it was found like last year (or maybe even before) that it could possibly be around 3.5 TFLOPS, which according to everything I've seen is within spitting distance of those two consoles. Nintendo might clock it low for longevity and thermals but the SoC seems very capable of getting close. I don't understand why that suddenly seems to be a controversial position.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

Are you seriously snarking her after she told you she's being made uncomfortable with the language you refer to her with? Really? And then acting like you're somehow protecting other users from what she's saying?

Especially when her initial argument about the Switch 2 not needing DLSS to come close to Series S or PS4 Pro is something that's been supported by the findings in this thread for a long time. Depending on the process node and clocks being used it was found like last year (or maybe even before) that it could possibly be around 3.5 TFLOPS, which according to everything I've seen is within spitting distance of those two consoles. Nintendo might clock it low for longevity and thermals but the SoC seems very capable of getting close. I don't understand why that suddenly seems to be a controversial position.

Is there a need for a renewed discussion on the topic, or is there a link to a past discussion that I'll go over and look at.

 

[gabeplays]

50 minutes?? I find GVG to be pretty alright so hopefully they didn't feed their viewers "It's a portable Series S!". I'd be pretty disappointed if so.

Is it wrong that I think though that, when Docked, it'll certainly be on par with a Series S?

I heavily emphasize the "on par". It won't look that way on paper. For one thing the Switch 2 will have a more modern feature-set and more RAM, but the Series S has it's own advantages. With DLSS however, where the Switch 2 can't reach the XSS on paper, it "should" in the actual playing experience. From what I understand of the nitty gritty, the boost clock that was revealed in the Nvidia leak was 1.38GHz (4.24TFLOPs) which is slightly higher than the XSS. It has 20CU's and the Switch 2 has 12SM or 24 CU's...

That seems to be the consistent analogy that I've seen when it comes to Switch 2 rumors: portable will be basically a PS4 and Docked will be closer to a PS4 Pro...but because it'll punch significantly higher than it's weight with a much better CPU than the old Jaguars, file decompression like the PS5, super fast I/O, DLSS, and so-on and so-forth as a ninth generation console and not an eight-gen console like the PS4 or PS4 Pro...when it's all said and done, it'll effectively be like having Nintendo's version of an Xbox Series S.

It's got slightly different stuff (more RAM, less internal storage space, etc), but the stuff puts it within the same league. At least when it's Docked. In Portable though, it's more like having a souped up PS4 with none of weaknesses. That seems to be the impression that's constantly emphasized.

 

[Raccoon]

personally if it looks even adjacent to PS4 in practice I'll be surprised

 

[ZonaiResearcher]

But I’m having a difficult time seeing how a GPU that is much smaller than the one in the PS4 Pro is going to beat it before DLSS. And the console thing I mentioned before etc.

Can it do things way more efficiently? Yes! Does that mean outperforms it? Absolutely not!



This isn’t far from someone saying Switch 2 will produce Series X tier visuals the other day, which while great, will lead to disappointment I fear! Thread goes through swings and I just wish we could better communicate it from the switch vs switch 2, rather than switch 2 vs say… PS5.

Getting to PS5, Xbox Series examples is pouring WUST energy where it shouldn’t really be!

Just to give one example, iPhone 15 Pro scores a 27095 in Metal graphics Geekbench test. The MacBook Air M1 scores 29736 on the same Metal benchmark. A ~10% difference in performance despite the significant difference in form factor, power consumption, chip size, etc.The M1 and A17 Pro are 3 years apart. Looking back to 2016 when PS4 Pro was launched, iPhone 7 scored 3699 on Metal. More than a 7x difference between 2016 and 2023. And the iPhone 7 used 16nm just like PS4 Pro. When performance in a similar form factor increased 7x, why is it not a stretch that the same performance as baseline can be had in a much smaller form factor? Jaguar was a garbage CPU that absolutely held the GPU back, and Polaris is a significantly dated architecture missing many features. You aren’t going to find hardware ray tracing in a PS4 Pro.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

Yes, thinking about it Red's point is really too controversial and I think it needs more discussion.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

2CUs (64 Shader units) = 1SM (128 Shader units)
It‘s 18 to 12.

That’s not how that would work out. These are two different architectures from two different companies. A CU is a CU, and an SM is an SM, these are the GPU “Cores”.

Later gens, like RDNA2 (or RDNA1? I can’t remember) and later, offer a WorkGroup Processor where it more shares resources more evenly if need be.

There have been times where AMD and Nvidia have been toe to toe and it has the same CU to SM count! Nvidia edging ahead because they had a few more.

I agree with most of your conclusions, I only take issue with one of your points, while the switch2 is a hybrid gaming console, it is inevitably competing in the marketplace with 9th gen consoles, so while it's not possible to make any easy comparisons, you inevitably have to give with the average gamer to illustrate whether or not there is a comparative target for the switch2 in terms of visuals.

The underlying logic here is that Nintendo has been moving away from the Yokoi Gunpei era's "parallel thinking with withered technology" methodology since the Wiiu, so while Nintendo still doesn't compete in mainstream gaming, it's always keeping up with cutting-edge graphic technology.

Oh this doesn’t really have anything to do with that ideology on withered technology, I think they’ve been more loose with that for a few years now.

I think there’s a bit of a misunderstanding and taking what I’m saying as meaning “it’s dated and old”

How can the Switch outperform the much bigger PS3? Switch 2 will have a much a dedicated memory compression engine, better CPU, higher RAM, more modern architecture, more cache, etc. than PS4 Pro. We still don’t know the clocks, but it‘ll probably be near (or even possibly higher than) PS4 Pro in Teraflops performance docked. I don’t think it’s unrealistic that Switch 2 will outperform it, without taking DLSS into account (in most cases). Physical chip size just doesn’t matter.

Well, it helps that the switch doesn’t use the CELL processor, which was difficult. And it helps that it’s a much more popular system. And that it has a lower level API. And that it is a physically larger GPU, technically.

Are you seriously snarking her after she told you she's being made uncomfortable with the language you refer to her with? Really? And then acting like you're somehow protecting other users from what she's saying?

OK, you are somehow going way off topic here, you’re coming at me for talking to someone and addressing them as ma’am which is the most respectful way I can address someone that does not like to be infantilized by the term girl. If she doesn’t like that, she can say it herself. She has a voice and she can ask me how she wants me to address her and I’ll gladly comply as I’ve always done so. I can’t read minds. And this has nothing to do with the content of the post, there’s gonna be some extreme disappointment later on down the line when things are revealed because people were expecting PlayStation 4 Pro tier visuals before DLSS was even put there.

Teraflops does not translate to actual GPU performance of what people look for, when you’re comparing different architectures from different companies. 3.5 Tflop of Drake does not really mean it is going to be comparable to the PlayStation 4 Pro. It just means it is close to it in performing FP32 floating point operations per second, that’s all.


This reminds me of the whole “13TFLOPs of Turing would becomes 20TFLOPs of Ampere because it’s more efficient and somehow the same performance of Ampere despite having less! Means ampere is less efficient!” of 2020. A slog. (Yes those threads exist.)

 

[Zordian]

So, is Muji the code name or not?

 

[TheBlueBerryJelly]

I mean, I feel like I'm the only one remembering that Muji name was also dropped in the shipping data? Am I mistaken?

 

[carbvan]

Is it wrong that I think though that, when Docked, it'll certainly be on par with a Series S?

I heavily emphasize the "on par". It won't look that way on paper. For one thing the Switch 2 will have a more modern feature-set and more RAM, but the Series S has it's own advantages. With DLSS however, where the Switch 2 can't reach the XSS on paper, it "should" in the actual playing experience. From what I understand of the nitty gritty, the boost clock that was revealed in the Nvidia leak was 1.38GHz (4.24TFLOPs) which is slightly higher than the XSS. It has 20CU's and the Switch 2 has 12SM or 24 CU's...

That seems to be the consistent analogy that I've seen when it comes to Switch 2 rumors: portable will be basically a PS4 and Docked will be closer to a PS4 Pro...but because it'll punch significantly higher than it's weight with a much better CPU than the old Jaguars, file decompression like the PS5, super fast I/O, DLSS, and so-on and so-forth as a ninth generation console and not an eight-gen console like the PS4 or PS4 Pro...when it's all said and done, it'll effectively be like having Nintendo's version of an Xbox Series S.

It's got slightly different stuff (more RAM, less internal storage space, etc), but the stuff puts it within the same league. At least when it's Docked. In Portable though, it's more like having a souped up PS4 with none of weaknesses. That seems to be the impression that's constantly emphasized.

It's not necessarily wrong, but in the ball park of the PS4 Pro is still only speculation because we don't know the full details.

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Switch Attach sounds even more like an add on peripheral than a “Wii U” does.

famiboards.com

This comment and it's chain is why I'm a bit apprehensive about straight up telling people publicly to expect a Series S, or even PS4 Pro level console. Again, I think it's fully possible, and as long as some silly shenanigans didn't take place at Nintendo, there's a good chance that's true. I just don't think people with large audiences should go around saying what they think the full picture is, when we can only make educated guesses based on an incomplete picture.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

I’m not even sure what is controversial, I havent used teraflops to compare different devices because I’ve noticed it makes no sense to compare different devices of different architecture like that using flops. Flops is a measure of how many floating points operations it can do per second. Different architectures with different GPUs from different companies different levels of efficiency can all do 4TFLOPs, that doesn’t mean they’ll al translate perfectly to perform the same for a game.

I’m gonna use a crude example, probably perfect, probably not, I don’t think it matters.
QCOM has processors that are already 4-5 teraflops, older ones that are 2-3TFLOPs. You don’t see those outperforming the PlayStation 4 or the 4pro when it comes to a game like Genshin Impact. Despite being newer!

Just wait and see how things will turn out.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

I’m not even sure what is controversial, I havent used teraflops to compare different devices because I’ve noticed it makes no sense to compare different devices of different architecture like that using flops. Flops is a measure of how many floating points operations it can do per second. Different architectures with different GPUs from different companies different levels of efficiency can all do 4TFLOPs, that doesn’t mean they’ll al translate perfectly to perform the same for a game.

I’m gonna use a crude example, probably perfect, probably not, I don’t think it matters.
QCOM has processors that are already 4-5 teraflops, older ones that are 2-3TFLOPs. You don’t see those outperforming the PlayStation 4 or the 4pro when it comes to a game like Genshin Impact. Despite being newer!

Just wait and see how things will turn out.

My point is that no one here holds a "floating point supremacy" view.

 

[ExoticSpice]

I’m not even sure what is controversial, I havent used teraflops to compare different devices because I’ve noticed it makes no sense to compare different devices of different architecture like that using flops. Flops is a measure of how many floating points operations it can do per second. Different architectures with different GPUs from different companies different levels of efficiency can all do 4TFLOPs, that doesn’t mean they’ll al translate perfectly to perform the same for a game.

I’m gonna use a crude example, probably perfect, probably not, I don’t think it matters.
QCOM has processors that are already 4-5 teraflops, older ones that are 2-3TFLOPs. You don’t see those outperforming the PlayStation 4 or the 4pro when it comes to a game like Genshin Impact. Despite being newer!

Just wait and see how things will turn out.

That’s because of low bandwidth and Qualcomm GPUs architectures are not desktop class.

The Switch’s 2 GPU is desktop class.

 

[Darknut85]

That’s not how that would work out. These are two different architectures from two different companies. A CU is a CU, and an SM is an SM, these are the GPU “Cores”.

Later gens, like RDNA2 (or RDNA1? I can’t remember) and later, offer a WorkGroup Processor where it more shares resources more evenly if need be.

There have been times where AMD and Nvidia have been toe to toe and it has the same CU to SM count! Nvidia edging ahead because they had a few more.

But comparing CUs to SMs like that doesn’t make sense. It‘s a apples to watermelons comparison. 1536 to 2304 would be a better way to put it.

 

[ShadowFox08]

I'm well versed in Dragonball, but I've never heard at least half these forms. I'm assuming They're from the most recent movie?

You can say that.

The CPU has already been decently extrapolated by the tech heads of the thread, it's expected to be on par with Zen 2 IPC but obviously lower clocked. Overall not a bad fit, although it is more of a bottleneck than the amazing GPU we're getting that is.

Zen 2 cores seem to be beat it in single core performance by a good amount, or at least the A78s in Orion. While multi core is better on A78s. Will be interesting to see how A78cs perform.


Best case scenario for us I think is 2GHz CPU cores. I dunno if they can do that with a 1.6 handheld 4 docked GPU TFLOPs. Safe to say current gen x series and PS5 will be at least twice as fast in CPI

I'm well versed in Dragonball, but I've never heard at least half these forms. I'm assuming They're from the most recent movie?

Alright fine...

DBZ Cell Saga layman terms

SSJ2 Gohan: PS5 Pro
Super Perfect Cell: X Series X
Cell Jr: Xbox Series S
Ascended SSJ Goku: Switch 2
Ascended Vegeta: Xbone X
Ascended Trunks: PS4 Pro
Piccolo: PS4
Android 16: Switch

 

[Zedark]

Honestly, the whole discussion on whether or not Switch 2 is on par with PS4 PRO in raw performance is a rather uninteresting one. The latest slew of Switch ports from PS4 have shown that inferior hardware can approach better hardware when there is a software solution to make up the difference. TAAU, FSR, etc. make the hardware punch above its weight. As a corollary, I predict we will not see a significant Switch 2 game put in a worse performance than a PS4 PRO counterpart because a dev would either use DLSS or at least a different advanced upsampling technique. So it is purely a theoretical exercise based on partial information that we will probably never be able to verify.

 

[Aufhebung RPG]

Honestly, the whole discussion on whether or not Switch 2 is on par with PS4 PRO in raw performance is a rather uninteresting discussion. The latest slew of Switch ports from PS4 have shown that inferior hardware can approach better hardware when there is a software solution to make up the difference. TAAU, FSR, etc. make the hardware punch above its hardware. As a corollary, I predict we will not see a significant Switch 2 game put in a worse performance than PS4 PRO because a dev would either use DLSS or at least a different advanced upsampling technique. So it is purely a theoretical exercise based on partial information that we will probably never be able to verify.

The strangest thing about this whole debate is that I don't know exactly what technical details they are debating pointing to, the ps4pro doesn't even have ray tracing even though the switch2 is only ps4pro level of quality in docking mode, having modern graphical features added including dlss including ray tracing would make the switch2's graphical standard to be 9th gen as a standard instead of 8th gen.

 

[volcsia]

I don't think muji is the codename, as "muji" just mean "raw/beginning/plain" in japanese. For example, if NG is named "switch 2", then switch 1 maybe called as "switch muji", as it is the beginning of switch.

Would be hilarious if "muji" is actually for the backward compatibility layer to play Switch 1.

It is finally out, and makes it easier for me to talk about this below:

so when I found out about Muji 無印, of course I googled it to know the meaning of it, getting the result of “no-brand” especially from Mujiyoshi brand of stores. We have three stores across the entirety of the United States, and the closest one to me is almost 30 minutes away (they are nice goods btw, if you live in NY give it a visit but it’s not cheap!).


Anyway, I of course remembered to split up the word to its characters, we have Mu and we have Ji. Keep in mind this is with my limited understanding of the Japanese language and also limited understanding of what Buddhism is, with that out the way…

Mu, or 無, in the way of Buddha can be interpreted differently, a story of a priest or a Monk asking a Master if a Dog is Buddha Nature or not, to which he responds to the Monk with “Mu” or “Not”. Mu can be literally interpreted as him saying no, but the Zen Buddhist teachings has that anything (even a dog) can reach Buddha, so it is the Monk’s thought of not thinking of a Human but of any creature. A challenge of traditional dualistic concepts of Yes or No. To think outside of the box. To practice Mu, you open a space in your mind that lets you achieve enlightenment.

When it came to Ji, or 印, it meant simply Mark, or Stamp or a Seal, but like in the last one I took the Zen Buddhist approach and Ji can be a metaphorical representation of “the Seal of Buddha” or a confirmation of being enlightened..


You are saying, “ok redd, but what are you getting at?” The eagle eyed reader saw it, but this is the most Nintendo codename ever. It simply means “Muji” or “no-name” or “no-brand” or “unmarked” etc.


But if you just change your perspective, Muji can metaphorically reflect this:


“To challenge conventional thinking and duality, is to confirm being enlightened or allowing yourself to become the enlightened”


This is by far, in my opinion anyway, the most simple yet the most perfect Nintendo codename and perfectly reflects how and what they are and encapsulates.



(Note: I’m not a Buddhist or speak Japanese and it’s just from some researching and reading how something so simple can be more than, and for fun)

無印 is mujirushi
Muji is 無地, with 無 means no and 地 means earth/ground/texture. It essentially means no-texture or plain.

But we know how Japanese loves playing words with kanji, so muji could be written with 夢次 (dream+next) to imply that Switch 2 will be the next dream for Nintendo (after Switch 1).

 

[Remless]

DBZ Cell Saga layman terms

SSJ2 Gohan: PS5 Pro
Super Perfect Cell: X Series X
Cell Jr: Xbox Series S
Ascended SSJ Goku: Switch 2
Ascended Vegeta: Xbone X
Ascended Trunks: PS4 Pro
Piccolo: PS4
Android 16: Switch

I can’t wait for the ps5 pro to kick the Series X so hard it reverts back to a Xbox one S

 

[TheBlueBerryJelly]

For a time now I tried to wrap my head around the situation regarding upgrades. As the folks from GVG mentioned in their video, Nintendo COULD ask for an upgrade fee to unlock better visuals and performance for existing titles. As they also said, I think it's clear that this wouldn't fare with everyone that well and so I figured, why not make that a part of NSO too?
Hear me out, I know it's a bad move to lock everything in regards to performance behind a paywall, but I think implementing it for "free" for NSO user would get them a couple more subscribers and maybe that wouldn't look that bad compared to an upgrade fee of 10 bucks for every game you own.
Any thoughts and/or comments on that?

 

[Fuffelpups]

NX has been a codename for like 2 years.

NX was announced with their DeNa partnership. They only told us about NX this early was, because the Wii U was a disaster and to stop any rumors that Nintendo would quit the dedicated videogame business.