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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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bmfrosty said:
They valued Gamecube BC until the Wii U (or that other Wii hardware design if we want to get pedantic) and Wii (and Wii U) until the Switch. They supported DS (and 3DS) until the Switch.

There can and will be reasons that backwards compatibility will have less value than cost. We just haven't seen (and may never see) where that happens for the current Switch.

None of my 3DS, DSi, Wii, or Wii U eShop (or whatever it was called in each instance) purchases are downloadable and work on the Switch. None of my Wii U discs or 3DS cartridges work on the Switch.

They found reasons to drop backwards compatibility.
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Just to add to this whole BC talk, what Nintendo does value is their IPs, whether that means legacy titles, or current. And if they can find a reason to incorporate older titles onto new systems whether through emulation, or native support, they'll make it work.

But more than that, we're also in this age of hardware where everything is more standardized rather than bespoke and custom like it used to be. Nintendo considered on continuing using the same PowerPC 750 CPU (though heavily modified yet again) that they'd been using since the GCN era even after the Wii U with Mont Blanc, though it never appeared to make it out beyond the drawing stages.

In today's world of hardware, there's less emphasis on unique or special sauce hardware, and that leads to more off-the-shelf parts in a relative sense. T239 is custom, but its mother chip, the Tegra Orin, is not some super special custom one-off chip either. We're not dealing with a Super FX chip, or a small pool of EDRAM anymore. Those days are long gone, for better or worse.

For the future of Nintendo's platforms, I think their intention is to provide continued support for legacy software because they know it makes them money, plus there's a literal library of thousands and thousands of games. I just booted up Golden Sun on NSO last night, and personally think it's cool I don't have to break out my GBA SP, or my Wii U to play it. I want that kind of legacy experience to continue, and I believe Nintendo knows that.

The Virtual Console was kind of the beta version of NSO.

Shareholder Chad said:
I really feel like some of the hatred or dislike toward VR is unjust and sensationalist. It feels biased and extra. When we talk about other emerging technologies still in its infancy, We say "Oh, This is cool but they need to figure out XYZ first before its consumer or mass adoption ready". For VR I see A LOT of "fuck this thing, its terrible and will never be good" type of takes.

I understand the criticisms like fidelity, convenience, and price but I do not understand the vitriol behind some comments I've seen.
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I was watching CNET's video review on the Apple Vision Pro headset, and an interesting thought had occurred to me.

Perhaps we're thinking of VR all wrong here. We talk about it being the next big thing in gaming, but I still have trouble with that because it's too expensive, too bulky, and as it stands, too niche. It will get more popular in time, but I don't see it being the next revolution in gaming.

What I do see it having a rather useful, and perhaps underrated ability/feature is in its use for content creation, and productivity work. It's potential use in Video and Photo Editing, especially with a view that is as large as your eyesight is would be glorious. Suddenly, multi-tasking becomes an even greater feature, especially in the current era of multi-monitor desk setups (I have three screens for my setup at work, and love it).

Remember Minority Report? THAT is where I see VR in the future. All we need are the finger gloves for 99.9% precise gestures rather than what we have now.

Z8NOwys.gif
 
Kool Savis said:
While i get your point, i still think games like Mario Kart, Splatoon, Smash and some of the big franchises would benefit from their own servers. These games got a active fanbase and Nintendo could maintain them about 5 to 10 years.

Rollback Netcode for fighting games is a good idea. Maybe the game you mean, was DB FighterZ?
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Blazblue Central fiction, cross tag battle, guilty gear accent core +R, DNF duel, DBFZ and Persona 4 Arena are some if not all of the games that support rollback in all or some of the other platforms where they are available (usually PC and not PS, sometimes both) but not on Switch. The only exception I can think of is Melty Blood Type Lumina which supports Rollback even on Switch.
I'm guessing rollback is not supported due to hardware limitations since rollback is known to push the hardware a bit more.
BTW, none of this is related to servers or NSO. This is entirely a third party devs (arc system works etc) decision.

Edit: Them Fighting Herds also supports rollback on Switch iirc
 
ShadowFox08 said:
f we ever got upgraded NSO, I wouldn't be surprised locking GC and Wii games to Switch 2 just to get more people in them. Obviously emulation will be much easier with a 10x faster CPU, but also locks people to buying a switch 2 to play games on those VC platforms. I would do that if I was Nintendo.
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In the short term, it also allows Nintendo to continue to release various HD versions of GameCube games at $40-50 each. I do think we will be getting Metroid Prime 2 HD and probably F-Zero GX HD. Nintendo could do quite a few of these types of releases as a way to show continued support for Switch even after SNG has arrived. There was that rumor from Any Robinson about Nintendo padding out their lineup for Switch with a bunch of GameCube remasters. We already know about Paper Mario and they released Prime Remastered and Pikmin 1+2 HD last year, but there could be quite a few coming that are still unannounced. Fast forward 2-3 years, and Nintendo adds GameCube to NSO and have already done most of the work.
 
TheMindOfThomas said:
In all fairness, this is what sales data has shown from their past systems. Every Nintendo home console sold less than its predecessor until the Wii, which was an innovation. The Wii U then sold significantly less than the Wii, after which the Switch found success through "innovation" once again. The handhelds followed a similar trajectory.

I think it's laughable to call the Switch 2 "doomed", especially pre-announcement/release, but I also don't think we should say for certain that an iterative Switch successor will necessarily be a guaranteed success like it is for Sony.
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While what you said is correct, I personally think it’s outdated trying to reference a market that hadn’t been fully exposed and accustomed to the impact of the modern smartphone to try and give reason as to why an iterative successor could not be a success for Nintendo.

I say that bc smartphones dramatically changed consumers relationship with hardware and software and their expectations from successors. In the past Innovative hardware had to be introduced to justify new software but post smartphones and the rise of digital storefronts, consumers have been able to build long relationships with particular ecosystems that span past that generation. As a result, at minimum, consumers expect forward compatibility now. Switch is Nintendo’s first step into that world and it was fortunately a HUGE one. The failure Xbox’s iterative successor (Series X/S) was all Xbox’s doing by literally not putting any impactful software on XB1, the 1st generation of digital libraries for gaming. That alone is the reason for the PS5’s success in contrast to Xbox bc the PS4 built an excellent relationship with consumers that carries over to PS5. Phil Spencer even admitted that as the reason they can’t make up that ground. Overall, I can’t predict the future but as long as Nintendo doesn’t lazily rollout the hardware where they think they can just coast of the merits of Switch 1, the Switch 2 will be a success, but the extent of that success we’ll have to see what Nintendo has in store.
 
Terrell said:
Thickness can't do much, especially for an active-cooled portable device. The footprint of the SoC and heat pipe cannot have anything really layered over it aside from the panel that you use to disperse heat. And those 2 pieces dictate the minimum size you can reasonably achieve, as well. Lite's size was ultimately dictated by the necessary size of the heat pipe for portable-only use.
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Makes sense for a device like Switch. I still hope someday there will be a smaller dockable one.
 
Apenknul said:
So let's say that DS and 3DS at both launches differ in €/$100.
If the Switch 2 is €/$350/400, and the 3D Headset is a seperate product, I think €/$75 would be a fair price? :p
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theres one aspect that might make Switch sucessor less then Switch(2 in actuality)1- the console will be too similar to Switch(why do i need a Switch sucessor, when i have my Switch that can do everything the new console will do) 2-$70 games(meaning less people would be willing to buy the nexf 3D Mario)
 
Giancarlo said:
theres one aspect that might make Switch sucessor less then Switch(2 in actuality)1- the console will be too similar to Switch(why do i need a Switch sucessor, when i have my Switch that can do everything the new console will do) 2-$70 games(meaning less people would be willing to buy the nexf 3D Mario)
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The typical skipping of one generation. If you look at Windows you‘ll also notice that trend: People take XP but skip Vista, take 7 but skip 8, take 10 but skip 11. It‘s a balancing act of differentiating Switch 2 from Switch without distracting the original audience, so innovate without breaking the hybrid concept.
 
RedSpring said:
I think it's just Microsoft that consistently use dedicated server. I can't come up with any multiplayer series from Sony but Destiny doesn't use dedicated server last I checked.
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My fault, i assumed Sony had extra servers too, for their games. Wasn't this the biggest criticism for NSO going paid, besides party chat options?
 
Kool Savis said:
My fault, i assumed Sony had extra servers too, for their games. Wasn't this the biggest criticism for NSO going paid, besides party chat options?
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I think it's mostly people not knowing the technicality of how online works. Especially since it's mostly in reference to third party games which wouldn't be using Nintendo server at all for matchmaking or voice chat.
 
oldpuck said:
Nintendo has sold 135+ million Switches. They are the mainstream
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Oh, but that is where you're mistaken!

You see, the Switch isn't a TRUE console as it's a Hybrid system, so it's more of a handheld. So you really can't compare it to the regular mainstream in gaming.

/s (obviously)
 
Apenknul said:
In the announcement of a direct, they always state a small description of what the direct will look like. Perhaps they'll say "future Nintendo Switch games for 2024, and a new generation of Nintendo". Would be similar to a tweet of a new generation trailer. Although as a "one last thing" is perhaps something they don't want announce.
But perhaps the yolo bird Pyoro would say something for that to happen in a direct. If he is gonna say something

@NateDrake you still positive about something March, or do you want to save that in your podcast? I vaguely remember something in those lines came from you.
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I discuss what to expect come March in podcast.
 
Terrell said:
I just need to correct you here.
The Dock has:

A DisplayPort to HDMI converter
A USB hub controller for the USB ports
2 CMOS chips (I assume for firmware)
2 USB-C power delivery chips

And in order to dock to the TV, the Switch device itself demanded the presence of a USB/DisplayPort crossbar switch. This chip is not present in the Lite and, while not overtly expensive, it's not exactly cheap, either.

Just needed to clear up how that you were underselling the expense.
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I was talking only about hardware in the console itself. I even mentioned that the dock would have to be sold separately to keep the low cost (and I assume that price of the dock for switch is a well known information)

I remember the chip being below $1 before the chip shortage - now I found it for around $1.65 in a bulk of 1000pcs - I guess it'd be a bit cheaper in larger quantities needed for mass production.
 
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Apenknul said:
That, or just a VR headset with those glasses, without VR capabilities and just the 3D imaging
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I'm not really sure what kind of distinction you keep trying to make. If each eye is getting a unique image, and it has access to even simple head motion data... tada, you've got simple VR. You can make something like Virtual Boy games that don't take head movement into account at all, but that would just be some kind of... aggressively stubborn choice in any recent year where we've got gyros coming out the wazoo.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
I'm not really sure what kind of distinction you keep trying to make. If each eye is getting a unique image, and it has access to even simple head motion data... tada, you've got simple VR. You can make something like Virtual Boy games that don't take head movement into account at all, but that would just be some kind of... aggressively stubborn choice in any recent year where we've got gyros coming out the wazoo.
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Hm, no. I don't mean the head motion data. The gyro can be used from the joycons, for normal uses. Like if you play Splatoon, the gyro in the joycons would be used as how it is used normally. I was just aiming for the stereoscopic 3D in a headset without any gyro inside the product, for what a 3DS offered but in a headset.
 
Apenknul said:
Hm, no. I don't mean the head motion data. The gyro can be used from the joycons, for normal uses. Like if you play Splatoon, the gyro in the joycons would be used as how it is used normally. I was just aiming for the stereoscopic 3D in a headset without any gyro inside the product, for what a 3DS offered but in a headset.
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Even Switch comes with its own gyro inside the base unit alongside the ones in the Joy-Cons. And 3DS had a near-equivalent to moving with your head in games like Face Raiders where the view changed as you aimed with the system. Even if you do just want the equivalent of a 3D TV on your face, it can be more comfortable to calibrate it to being in a particular location rather than always directly in front of you regardless of how you move your head.
 
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Is it possible switch 2 will be able to stream content to the TV so you can use it like a wiiu-controller to display a map or an inventory on the switch or eben enable asynchronous multiplayer (or however Nintendo called this)? Would be a nice 'gimmick'. Sorry if this has already be discussed.

Also, hello everyone! After a long time of lurking I'm happy to finally participate in this nice place.
 
Ehl said:
Is it possible switch 2 will be able to stream content to the TV so you can use it like a wiiu-controller to display a map or an inventory on the switch or eben enable asynchronous multiplayer (or however Nintendo called this)? Would be a nice 'gimmick'. Sorry if this has already be discussed.
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I don't see why not. It'd basically be putting the "Wii U" in the tablet and the "gamepad" in the dock. I'd like for them to visit some version of this, but there's not really reason to think that's what they're going to do for Switch 2.
 
Ehl said:
Is it possible switch 2 will be able to stream content to the TV so you can use it like a wiiu-controller to display a map or an inventory on the switch or eben enable asynchronous multiplayer (or however Nintendo called this)? Would be a nice 'gimmick'. Sorry if this has already be discussed.

Also, hello everyone! After a long time of lurking I'm happy to finally participate in this nice place.
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Already extensively discussed - the technical reality is that it's possible, very possible, wireless 4K 60 steaming at low latency is a real thing... In the price bracket of $5000. The most recent example is if you have a capable Mac and an Apple Vision Pro, you can get a full refresh rate, low latency 4K image wirelessly.

Getting that technology to have reasonable battery life in a tablet formfactor for under $1000 when you have to include the receiver in the box is not practical, and getting it under $500, well, that will buy you the streaming hardware and nothing left over for memory, SOC, screen or controllers.

It's a great idea and I'd love to see it but we know it's not practical. However there's more than one way to enable "dual screen" gameplay, and the NSO app already presents us with a second screen for convenience features (like text input in Animal Crossing New Horizons). Expanding on that and relying on the home network is absolutely an option for Nintendo.
 
Concernt said:
Already extensively discussed - the technical reality is that it's possible, very possible, wireless 4K 60 steaming at low latency is a real thing... In the price bracket of $5000. The most recent example is if you have a capable Mac and an Apple Vision Pro, you can get a full refresh rate, low latency 4K image wirelessly.

Getting that technology to have reasonable battery life in a tablet formfactor for under $1000 when you have to include the receiver in the box is not practical, and getting it under $500, well, that will buy you the streaming hardware and nothing left over for memory, SOC, screen or controllers.

It's a great idea and I'd love to see it but we know it's not practical. However there's more than one way to enable "dual screen" gameplay, and the NSO app already presents us with a second screen for convenience features (like text input in Animal Crossing New Horizons). Expanding on that and relying on the home network is absolutely an option for Nintendo.
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I see, thanks for the reply. I had a feeling this would be too expensive or very limited.
 
Ehl said:
I see, thanks for the reply. I had a feeling this would be too expensive or very limited.
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Interesting side-thought. Have the Switch 2 as one would expect it, but give it the ability to stream a second screen to an app. Put out a cell phone grip that you can attach a pair of joycons to. If your lower screen is inventory or whatever, it can be a 720p30 stream and who cares if it has a few frames of lag. Would work for a bunch of Wii U ports pretty well and also would work for well for 3DS/DS emulation for a bunch of titles too. Nothing that uses both screens for action, but anything where the bottom screen is just menus.

It's a gimmick that probably requires next to zero hardware cost change and makes the hardcore fans excited.

#eurekamoment
 
Lugia667 said:
feel like sonic coming out in Autumn means Switch support will continue at least somewhat
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I expect at least a couple of years of strong support for the Switch after the Switch 2 comes out.

If Hades 3 or Dave the Diver 2 were to come out in 2030, I'd expect it to still run on the baseline Switch.

Unless a game needs that extra CPU/GPU grunt, there's no real reason to not have it work on both generations.

EDIT: Unless they get some actual data about playtime on each generation and it shows that nobody is playing on Switch 1 anymore.
 
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LiC said:
By the way, the A01 product codes appear to just be an incrementing number for each one of these pieces of equipment custom ordered from Chroma. Most of the listings don't have chip names, but from the ones that do, we can make a small timeline:
  • 0012xx = GA104
  • 001760 = GH100
  • 001783 = LS10
  • 001935 = AD102
  • 001941 = T239
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Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
 
darthdiablo said:
* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
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I think at this point the chance of it being 8nm is almost zero, it wouldn't make any sense for them to launch a device in 2024 with such a bad and old lithography. I believe we are more likely to see TSMC 7nm or another Samsung Node, even if they are not in common use from NVidia, than we are to see SEC 8nm.
 
Giancarlo said:
i want to know of Nintendo next hardware by Nintendo own words, i dont want Ubisoft or any developers that is working on Switch sucessor, ruin the surprise
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im still annoyed that AI shark may have spoiled it for us ... fall of 24, was it?

would they release products for the previous switch?

-note- AI shark IS and ill say that again, IS gameshark reborn

source :: https://shark.loginto.me/ :: and look at the CEO : Todd Hays : snippet from the main page : "Formerly founder and CEO InterAct Accessories and introduced the original GameShark in 1994"

the leak that broke the internet(?) :: https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/nintendo-switch-2-release-september-2024-altec-lansing/
 
LinkURL said:
I think at this point the chance of it being 8nm is almost zero, it wouldn't make any sense for them to launch a device in 2024 with such a bad and old lithography. I believe we are more likely to see TSMC 7nm or another Samsung Node, even if they are not in common use from NVidia, than we are to see SEC 8nm.
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SEC8N cannot really be completely ruled out yet still.

But even if it's not SEC8N, I am extremely skeptical it'll be TSMC 7nm or another Samsung node, mainly because you don't really see many modern/recent nvidia chips use anything other than SEC8N or TSMC 4N.
 
TheMindOfThomas said:
In all fairness, this is what sales data has shown from their past systems. Every Nintendo home console sold less than its predecessor until the Wii, which was an innovation. The Wii U then sold significantly less than the Wii, after which the Switch found success through "innovation" once again. The handhelds followed a similar trajectory.

I think it's laughable to call the Switch 2 "doomed", especially pre-announcement/release, but I also don't think we should say for certain that an iterative Switch successor will necessarily be a guaranteed success like it is for Sony.
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But the Wii U was innovative, not iterative. It was meant to position Nintendo in the TV space and take over as your main set top box in the living room.

It failed at doing so miserably and also failed because it didn’t iterate on the Wii’s power.
 
Hyrulian_Zer0 said:
im still annoyed that AI shark may have spoiled it for us ... fall of 24, was it?

would they release products for the previous switch?

-note- AI shark IS and ill say that again, IS gameshark reborn

source :: https://shark.loginto.me/ :: and look at the CEO : Todd Hays : snippet from the main page : "Formerly founder and CEO InterAct Accessories and introduced the original GameShark in 1994"

the leak that broke the internet(?) :: https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/nintendo-switch-2-release-september-2024-altec-lansing/
Click to expand...

They know shit lol, it was all about marketing...
 
Hyrulian_Zer0 said:
im still annoyed that AI shark may have spoiled it for us ... fall of 24, was it?

would they release products for the previous switch?

-note- AI shark IS and ill say that again, IS gameshark reborn

source :: https://shark.loginto.me/ :: and look at the CEO : Todd Hays : snippet from the main page : "Formerly founder and CEO InterAct Accessories and introduced the original GameShark in 1994"

the leak that broke the internet(?) :: https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/nintendo-switch-2-release-september-2024-altec-lansing/
Click to expand...
We've been over this already. They were just making up shit.

Even if September ends up being the release month after all, that still doesn't make the CEO right either, he was making up shit. ("a broken clock is right twice a day")
 
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