• Hey everyone, staff have documented a list of banned content and subject matter that we feel are not consistent with site values, and don't make sense to host discussion of on Famiboards. This list (and the relevant reasoning per item) is viewable here.

StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

Reader mode
BingBong43 said:
But the Wii U was innovative, not iterative. It was meant to position Nintendo in the TV space and take over as your main set top box in the living room.

It failed at doing so miserably and also failed because it didn’t iterate on the Wii’s power.
Click to expand...

My sense is that people were not hungry for more Wii at the time, the console was out of breath. Was very different from the Gameboy and, today, the switch.
 
casualreader said:
My sense is that people were not hungry for more Wii at the time, the console was out of breath. Was very different from the Gameboy and, today, the switch.
Click to expand...
Nintendo made everyone want a Wii Remote. That's why the Wii did so well. Nintendo really couldn't make anybody want a tablet as part of a (not an entire) game machine in 2012. It was an expensive anchor. Even if they had found a way to excise the tablet as a requirement for the machine, it would have been too late and the machine had other problems (the OS for one) that were keeping it back.

A Wii HD that had a modern GPU in 2009 and modern download infrastructure would have probably been able to keep Wii mania going if it could also have solved the big limitations that the Wii had at a reasonable price.
 
ItsukaKasuga said:
Umm it would make sense to use 4N if is is customized since t239 is custom too, but we will see soon how this turn out i suppose
Click to expand...
It's a TSMC node process customized for nvidia products; this doesn't mean custom SoCs will be using 4N.

But yes, 4N would be ideal for us. Better clock speeds, better power draw scenarios, etc. Better performance potential for Switch 2 compared to SEC8N.
 
karmitt said:
There’s so much of a focus on 8N or not - this wouldn’t be happening were it not for kopite7kimi right? There’s not a hint otherwise out there?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if the 8N rumor around here first came from Famiboards (nvidia leaks?) or from Kopite7kimi. But yeah, Kopite7kimi has said in the past T239 is SEC8N fab.
 
NateDrake said:
I discuss what to expect come March in podcast.
Click to expand...
e6972eb15457671385550188b42dffc5bdb90faf.png
 
darthdiablo said:
SEC8N cannot really be completely ruled out yet still.

But even if it's not SEC8N, I am extremely skeptical it'll be TSMC 7nm or another Samsung node, mainly because you don't really see many modern/recent nvidia chips use anything other than SEC8N or TSMC 4N.
Click to expand...
SEC 8N in 2024 would be the same as receiving a Switch with the Wii U lithograph in 2017.
I know that here in the thread we are all rational and I believe almost methodologically scientific in how we deal with data we have obtained about T239.
But let's be honest for a moment, do we seriously expect a 12SM mobile chip in theory "cutting edge technology" but with SEC 8N? Can we seriously believe that Nintendo will use a lithograph worse than that of the PS5 launched in 2020, in its hybrid device in 2024 and think it will work?
 
A Wii 2 (hd) surely would have done better than the Wii U (same console sans 80-100$ from no tablet and R&D?). But that's not saying much really. It probably would have gone down like the early/mid 3ds life span (at best). Better at treading water until the Switch, but pretty mediocre over all.
 
casualreader said:
My sense is that people were not hungry for more Wii at the time, the console was out of breath. Was very different from the Gameboy and, today, the switch.
Click to expand...

It was much more Nintendo trying to shoehorn an Apple TV-like product into a Wii without making it clear to potential customers that it was the successor to the Wii or without making it clear that the TV aspect didn’t require altering your cable/satellite subscription.

To casuals it looked like a poorly executed TV add-on to the Wii, not an entirely new product.

To the few folks who might’ve been interested in the TV functions, it was confusing trying to understand how it integrated into your set top box setup.

It was almost exclusively innovation and it bombed.

Making catch-all statements about Nintendo’s innovation versus iteration strategies is almost always a bad idea. They usually balance both in each of their new products to achieve success.
 
seyfeselassie said:


Nintendo shadow dropped a demo for Mario vs Donkey Kong. This is also something they would typically announce during a Direct.
Click to expand...

they can always remind people on the direct about it, in last year direct they didnt mention anything about Another Code getting a demo before the release so there is still chance this get presented in the next direct
 
ItsukaKasuga said:
they can always remind people on the direct about it, in last year direct they didnt mention anything about Another Code getting a demo before the release so there is still chance this get presented in the next direct
Click to expand...
Did they make a tweet about the Another Code demo before the Direct? It would be kind of strange to talk about M vs DK then say, "the demo has already been available on the eShop!". Maybe I don't remember but I can't think of any situations like this in recent memory.

Edit: Like a typical scenario would be like the Triangle Strategy announcement, where they drop the demo after talking about the game, although it was still in development at the time.
 
LinkURL said:
SEC 8N in 2024 would be the same as receiving a Switch with the Wii U lithograph in 2017.
I know that here in the thread we are all rational and I believe almost methodologically scientific in how we deal with data we have obtained about T239.
But let's be honest for a moment, do we seriously expect a 12SM mobile chip in theory "cutting edge technology" but with SEC 8N? Can we seriously believe that Nintendo will use a lithograph worse than that of the PS5 launched in 2020, in its hybrid device in 2024 and think it will work?
Click to expand...
Nintendo have made a lot of stupid decisions that harmed it own consoles, so Nintendo choosing this process node for it next console, would not suprise me at slightly
 
seyfeselassie said:
Did they make a tweet about the Another Code demo before the Direct? It would be kind of strange to talk about M vs DK then say, "the demo has already been available on the eShop!". Maybe I don't remember but I can't think of any situations like this in recent memory.

Edit: Like a typical scenario would be like the Triangle Strategy announcement, where they drop the demo after talking about the game, although it was still in development at the time.
Click to expand...
i dont remember, but i think they upload a video about the game where they mention the demo at the end and the demo, is what im trying to say, they could have mention it on the direct but never did until they game was about to release

 
darthdiablo said:
Did you think Nintendo made stupid decisions about Switch?
Click to expand...
no, but when Nintendo have a sucesufull console, they become arrogant and complacent, this lead to a series of bad decisions that lead to a Wii U level of failure, let pray they learned the lesson with Wii U, and will not try to do someting funny that will alienate both the fans and third party
 
Giancarlo said:
no, but when Nintendo have a sucesufull console, they become arrogant and complacent, this lead to a series of bad decisions that lead to a Wii U level of failure
Click to expand...
It’s been 20 years since that happened and a couple of leadership changes. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt
 
ItsukaKasuga said:
i dont remember, but i think they upload a video about the game where they mention the demo at the end and the demo, is what im trying to say, they could have mention it on the direct but never did until they game was about to release

Click to expand...




I believe this was the trailer used in the Direct, the demo actually did release at the same time of the announcement. Pyoro also leaked the trailer+demo for the Direct.
 
seyfeselassie said:
I believe this was the trailer used in the Direct, the demo actually did release at the same time of the announcement. Pyoro also leaked the trailer+demo for the Direct.
Click to expand...
No mention of the demo during the direct. The demo was announced later via tweet, which is preceded by tweets from Pyoro.

From memory, demo releases come at least 2 weeks before the game is due to release, so waiting for a direct to announce the demo is too late for a first mention. Also, I'm not sure this is the right thread for this discussion.
 
Giancarlo said:
no, but when Nintendo have a sucesufull console, they become arrogant and complacent, this lead to a series of bad decisions that lead to a Wii U level of failure, let pray they learned the lesson with Wii U, and will not try to do someting funny that will alienate both the fans and third party
Click to expand...
if they were complacent they would have just made a wii hd lol. They definitely for better or worse did try with Wii U

MAYBE you could make this argument for the 3ds which was much more interative
 
darthdiablo said:
It's a TSMC node process customized for nvidia products; this doesn't mean custom SoCs will be using 4N.

But yes, 4N would be ideal for us. Better clock speeds, better power draw scenarios, etc. Better performance potential for Switch 2 compared to SEC8N.
Click to expand...
And cheaper overall, right? Folks love to say that Nintendo cheaps out on tech, but they can't also say they'd use the larger, less efficient node if the smaller, more efficient node is cheaper.
 
Discostew said:
And cheaper overall, right? Folks love to say that Nintendo cheaps out on tech, but they can't also say they'd use the larger, less efficient node if the smaller, more efficient node is cheaper.
Click to expand...
Cheaper now but maybe not cheaper 1-2 years ago.

The question is when they/nvidia made the decision.
 
seyfeselassie said:


Nintendo shadow dropped a demo for Mario vs Donkey Kong. This is also something they would typically announce during a Direct.
Click to expand...

I imagine they want the demo out X period of time before the game is, and "demo available for remake of GBA title, expected to sell less than a million copies" is low on the list of bombshell announcements worth holding to pad out a Direct.

I remember when, before the June Direct last year, the YouTube channel was third party drop after third party drop, and then we got just a normal Direct. I am a little wary of the idea that an announcement in late january of any kind is more than just business as usual.
 
darthdiablo said:
I'm not sure if the 8N rumor around here first came from Famiboards (nvidia leaks?) or from Kopite7kimi. But yeah, Kopite7kimi has said in the past T239 is SEC8N fab.
Click to expand...
8N was largely dismissed here as a possibility once Thraktor's power estimates came into play, only for that to be challenged based on Kopite's word (Being the closest known Nvidia leaker that would have the know how of Drake's litography). Kopite has been the main source of contention here due to being regarded as a reputable Nvidia source by the majority, although so far his Tegra sources have been the exception to that (See getting SM count wrong, wrongfully calling it Lovelace-esque, etc) I personally think given Kopite's trackmatter with Tegra that he's about as much in the dark about Drake's lithography as we are, & his positive interactions with people on Twitter arguing in favor for 4N lean towards him not being 100% sold on his source either. That's just my two cents on the matter.
 
darthdiablo said:
That’s thinking far too simplistically. You don’t think they evaluate costs based on future expectations?
Click to expand...
Chip shortage during the pandemic is a very uncommon era in the history.
We really are not able to tell what decision they make.

Companies made all kind of ridiculous decisions during the pandemic. They overhired and laid off people without reasons. Even my grandma won’t run a company like this
 
Erika said:
Chip shortage during the pandemic is a very uncommon era in the history.
We really are not able to tell what decision they make.

Companies made all kind of ridiculous decisions during the pandemic. They overhired and laid off people without reasons. Even my grandma won’t run a company like this
Click to expand...
Too "Because Nintendo" for my tastes. I'm dialing out of this discussion.
 
Last edited:
Giancarlo said:
no, but when Nintendo have a sucesufull console, they become arrogant and complacent, this lead to a series of bad decisions that lead to a Wii U level of failure, let pray they learned the lesson with Wii U, and will not try to do someting funny that will alienate both the fans and third party
Click to expand...
The Wii U bombing wasn’t a result of Nintendo being arrogant nor complacent lol, the advertising for it was just extremely poorly crafted.

Instead of showcasing, well, the CONSOLE, they were like “Experience the New Controller” (yes the first trailers are like that), thus making everyone think there was no new Wii and that the whole thing was packaged as the GamePad, that’s why people were so quick to disregard that new generation, consumers legit thought it was an original Wii accessory rather than an actual console, and didn’t see a reason to upgrade. It really hurt their bottom line
 
burningup said:
The Wii U bombing wasn’t a result of Nintendo being arrogant nor complacent lol, the advertising for it was just extremely poorly crafted.

Instead of showcasing, well, the CONSOLE, they were like “Experience the New Controller” (yes the first trailers are like that), thus making everyone think there was no new Wii and that the whole thing was packaged as the GamePad, that’s why people were so quick to disregard that new generation, consumers legit thought it was an original Wii accessory rather than an actual console, and didn’t see a reason to upgrade. It really hurt their bottom line
Click to expand...
Dang, you weren't kidding.

If I had a dime for every time they said "<verb> on the New Controller!" (play, draw, etc), I'd retire early.

A definite marketing failure. Way too much emphasis on "New Controller" and not even bothering to differentiate itself as a new console separate from Wii. Looks like they're trying to ride on the success of Wii brand (and that's exactly what happened, probably)

 
darthdiablo said:
Dang, you weren't kidding.

If I had a dime for every time they said "<verb> on the New Controller!" (play, draw, etc), I'd retire early.

Click to expand...

It was so bad, they’d barely mention the new HD capability... Which was a huge sticking point among Wii owners

Edit: Just watched the trailer again. Out of 13 slides there’s 12 simply mentioning “the new controller!!!!!!1!1”
 
darthdiablo said:
Dang, you weren't kidding.

If I had a dime for every time they said "<verb> on the New Controller!" (play, draw, etc), I'd retire early.

A definite marketing failure. Way too much emphasis on "New Controller" and not even bothering to differentiate itself as a new console separate from Wii. Looks like they're trying to ride on the success of Wii brand (and that's exactly what happened, probably)

Click to expand...


I still remember that day, crystal clear. I was watching it while interacting online on a forum where everyone should be a "hardcore gamer", and it was basically just me and two others saying "guys, c'mon, look the design of that console! IT'S CLEARLY NOT A WII!!! IT'S A NEW CONSOLE!!!", and it was like talking to a wall. If even in a place where people should know better they couldn't realize what was going on, imagine then the tens of millions of Wii users (who didn't even know what E3 was to begin with lol).

But just to be clear, I'm not saying the Wii U failed because of this (or just because of this). For me it was simply an uninteresting console, and presenting it that way was just the icing on the cake.

edit: I was watching the E3 video again and I saw some of the lines I remember using as an argument at the time (to affirm it was a new console): the first one was even before the trailer, where Reggie says "the new controller for Wii U", and after the trailer Iwata repeats saying "the new controller for Wii U", and he also says "it's backward compatible, so all Wii games, Wii Remote controllers, and other accessories such as the Wii balance board can be used" as well as "the images displayed on the new controller are generated only by Wii U". There was also that techdemo of a bird flying, and Reggie said "let me show you just an early example of what the system can do" (for me it's still funny people were thinking that could be running on a Wii lmao)
It was clear for me they both were referring to a new hardware, but almost no one on that forum full of nerds was able to understand it. "Hardcore gamers"
1


Still, the trailer that really mattered was total garbage to explain everything, and it was by far the most viewed one (13 million views. I said 13... million... :unsure::sneaky:)


Anyway, I miss E3...
 
Last edited:
darthdiablo said:
Dang, you weren't kidding.

If I had a dime for every time they said "<verb> on the New Controller!" (play, draw, etc), I'd retire early.

A definite marketing failure. Way too much emphasis on "New Controller" and not even bothering to differentiate itself as a new console separate from Wii. Looks like they're trying to ride on the success of Wii brand (and that's exactly what happened, probably)

Click to expand...


It’s funny that with the reveal I was so wholly focused on what the new system would be like and what games it might launch with that it never dawned on me that somebody might mistake this for just a controller. It was already a given that this was the next console for me.

Watching it again, the video is an absolute mess.
 
Erika said:
Cheaper now but maybe not cheaper 1-2 years ago.

The question is when they/nvidia made the decision.
Click to expand...
How expensive it would be would come after Nintendo set their targets. No matter what they chose, their targets would have dictated the costs.

And those targets would have either resulted in a large 8N die (and on a dead node) resulting in an expensive chip or a 4N node that has higher R&D costs but cheaper per chip costs (and a node that will be alive for many years).

Samsung and Nvidia would have made this decision for Nintendo if Samsung said they aren't taking orders or if Nvidia said they are not making 8N designs
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.
Please read this new, consolidated staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
Last edited by a moderator:


Back
Top Bottom