StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[gnetc]

I'm going to try to word this in the most respectful way possible, but it feels like the people here talking about things like tabletop mode and local multiplayer being underused are not aware of Nintendo Switch being used outside their own bubble.

Nintendo Switch is a very mainstream product. I see all kinds of people in public with a Switch. And I have seen many settings/been in situations where someone with a Switch says "hey, wanna play Mario Kart/Mario Party/etc?" and hands over a joycon/sets up tabletop mode. These are ideas that are fundamental to the appeal of the Switch. It's not just a portable console, it's the most convenient and casual way to play multiplayer games on the go or in a public setting. If anything Switch 2 will refine and improve these concepts, not get rid of them.

I love tabletop mode, if I just wanna lay back with the joycons and have the switch set up on a table/desk somewhere it’s really nice. Holding a console in your hands 24/7 gets annoying imo.

 

[NintendoMariah]

I've literally seen people play Switch in tabletop mode in the school library multiple times. It's definitely a thing

This!

When we did our Splatoon 2 and 3 catch ups, thats exactly how most of my friends played!

 

[Aether]

I love tabletop mode, if I just wanna lay back with the joycons and have the switch set up on a table/desk somewhere it’s really nice. Holding a console in your hands 24/7 gets annoying imo.

I would have loved it more with a better stand and more options (see oled), with the original I only use it occasionally.

In my constellation it is rarely useful, cause my desks also where my dock is.

But for others I could totally see it, in the kitchen, on their desk if they don't have a screen there, heck I could see some have it on a stand next to the bathtub and risking their joy cons or a third party gamepad ..

 

[adiGuba]

Games are dropped on Twitter which normally would be used for a direct.

I don't think that there is any relation..

Mario VS DK will soon be released, and Nintendo show trailer like usual.
They have done similar thing last year with Kirby, with a trailer in january just before the direct in february.

And Ace Combat is a multiplat game. They don't always have a large place on ND...

 

[SwitchEmUp]

Did a little snooping around and I can confirm that, if there is a car that's using it, I can't find it. The T234 is definitely available for manufacturing and use in vehicles, it's just that there isn't a high-profile/publicly available car in develop that plans to utilise it. Doesn't help that the majority of ways to search for it are blocked by "THE NINTENDO SWITCH 2 - WITH THE POWER OF THE T239, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, LIKE SOLVING MY MARRIAGE!!"

But the Switch 2 could solve your marriage. Using the Joy-Con's multiplayer capabilities, you can play the famous games It Takes Two and Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury which will look even clearer in 4K, clearing any blocks in your relationship, it will also go smoother too because it's at 60fps, but the relationship could be based on weak grounds as it could be interpolated.

 

[Horror Kid]

For playing Switch in bed with detached Joy-cons, I use something similar to this (can recommend this a lot; tabletop mode is way too flimsy and inflexible for me):

 

[Charamiwa]

One of the coolest use of tabletop mode I had was being to keep up my Ring Fit streak one day despite a global power outage. It wasn't ideal but perfectly usable and a testament to the console's flexibility.

 

[Mirev]

Nintendo just please keep the Tabletop mode, best one to me.

 

[Adulfzen]

Nintendo for Switch 2 just need to release their own version of "pro" joycons that horii sorta makes but with all the bell and whistles and I'll be a happy camper.

 

[ShadowFox08]

That's not good. I thought worse case was PS4 level. There were some people stating this thing would perform better than series S in some cases.

Somebody ready mentioned it (before I press, "post reply..."

Even if we get something like 1.3-1.4 TFLOPs, that should be around PS4 level alone. FLOPs numbers only give a part of the picture Newer GPU hardware and from different companies, is not straight forward to compare.

I Believe DF was saying PS5/X Series architecture was 1.5x more performant than the old GPUs on Xbone and PS4. That was before release. It's likely a good ball park now still. Even Switch punched well above its weight due to more efficient architecture, more advanced newer tools, and tile based rendering vs older GPU architecture for Xbone and PS4.

And we also will have much more RAM and CPU power available on switch 2 handheld mode. I didn't even count DLSS

Samsung Galaxy S24 comes in 8GB (128GB/256GB storage) and 12GB (256GB/512GB) flavors and the ultra has a 4900 mAh battery

if there is any barometer for what Nintendo could use, it's the generic android phone, being the Galaxy series

Wait what. In what context?

If we are talking about SKUs, I think looking at Nintendo did with the different Switch SKUs and the well as the different Steam Dock Models, is what we should expect. Not mobile.

Storage size, battery size, and screen quality + size will the biggest differences in the switch skus.
For a switch lite scenario, non detachable controls, smaller screen, and no dock will likely happen.

I know you aren't implying differences in RAM amount being viable on switch 2 skus.. Unless we get a pro model.

 

[dumbass_rabbit]

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[Danny]

I mostly play my switch docked and with a pro controller. Though i don't see why Nintendo can't just keep the joycons and just put in the effort to make them better, with less problems with drifting joycons.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Wait what. In what context?

If we are talking about SKUs, I think looking at Nintendo did with the different Switch SKUs and the well as the different Steam Dock Models, is what we should expect. Not mobile.

Storage size, battery size, and screen quality + size will the biggest differences in the switch skus.
For a switch lite scenario, non detachable controls, smaller screen, and no dock will likely happen.

I know you aren't implying differences in RAM amount being viable on switch 2 skus.. Unless we get a oro model

If we had to assume that Nintendo would use a similar ram (and storage) setup as the leading phone in launch year, these would be our options. If course there's not much correlation and we only have one data point (the Switch matched the top end Samsung at the time).

 

[kasparov77]

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I think the left/right change might be related to how potentially, in switch 2 nintendo is going to give both joycons gyro.
Well, at least I hope so.

 

[LuigiBlood]

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[LuigiBlood]

I think the left/right change might be related to how potentially, in switch 2 nintendo is going to give both joycons gyro.
Well, at least I hope so.

...they already have Gyro, though? They really have both an accelerometer and gyroscope.

 

[kasparov77]

...they already have Gyro, though? They really have both an accelerometer and gyroscope

Oh... well, when I play splatoon the gyro only works on one joycon. I think it might be related to how it would be completely disorienting if it worked on both at the same time, lol.

 

[LuigiBlood]

Oh... well, when I play splatoon the gyro only works on one joycon. I think it might be related to how it would be completely disorienting if it worked on both at the same time, lol.

It only uses one because there's no need for two sensors for this, that's all there is to it. Wario Ware Move It makes use of both, and other titles like Nintendo Labo as well.

 

[Bonejack]

I wonder what they could improve and/or add to a possible Ring-Con 2.

 

[Jersh]

I'm going to try to word this in the most respectful way possible, but it feels like the people here talking about things like tabletop mode and local multiplayer being underused are not aware of Nintendo Switch being used outside their own bubble.

Nintendo Switch is a very mainstream product. I see all kinds of people in public with a Switch. And I have seen many settings/been in situations where someone with a Switch says "hey, wanna play Mario Kart/Mario Party/etc?" and hands over a joycon/sets up tabletop mode. These are ideas that are fundamental to the appeal of the Switch. It's not just a portable console, it's the most convenient and casual way to play multiplayer games on the go or in a public setting. If anything Switch 2 will refine and improve these concepts, not get rid of them.

Yep. I personally don't see much tabletop mode (it does happen for me, but maybe a few times a year), but like I said in my own post, docked local multiplayer still happens a lot. And of the Switch owners I know that don't use theirs for local multiplayer, the reason is actually purely because they live in a house with another Switch that is the primary group one.

It's way easier to get to 4 players (or more) with individual Joy-Cons used as controllers than without. Just because the Switch is docked doesn't mean we have four traditional controllers on hand.

 

[NineTailSage]

So in looking at the Orin block diagram as we were talking about cache amounts earlier and what the total might look like.
Seeing as how both the CPU and GPU can access system cache in a similar way to GPU and its access to separate L2 cache.
Could we see Nintendo and Nvidia just go for a larger system cache amount in order to kill 2 birds with 1 stone so to speak?

Also I don't remember much if the Nvidia hacks said anything of importance about the APE and specifics of its capabilities...

 

[Terrell]

BYD, Great Wall Motor (GWM), Li Auto, Nio, Volvo, VinFast, Xiaomi, and ZEEKR. (Drive Orin uses T234.)

Well, looks like Nvidia's eating well for the next decade then. Even leaving out that this is nearly every major Chinese EV maker aside from Wuling, BYD alone is a big get for them right now.

 

[Koren Lesthe]

I've literally seen people play Switch in tabletop mode in the school library multiple times. It's definitely a thing

I've seen 4 dudes with their Switch playing Super Bomberman R in the train.

I can confirm, it is a thing.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I wonder what they could improve and/or add to a possible Ring-Con 2.

4 joycon mode for extra tracking. I don't know how they can even sell that mode, but it would be cool

 

[navierStokes]

Geekerwan looked at the Snapdragon 8 gen 3.



Cool that Asus allows so much customisation to tune Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 to certain performance profiles (allowing you to set frequencies etc.).
They also test some emulators, but they'll eventually make a video about using Android phones to run PC games (we've already seen some things with people running GTA V through mobox on android phones etc.).

I wonder what they could improve and/or add to a possible Ring-Con 2.

To the ring itself, not much I suppose, without also increasing the costs.
Perhaps with a front facing camera, do some body pose estimation, I think that could enable some interesting applications and higher accuracy. But it primarily has to be enabled through the joy cons itself.
The New 3DS had head tracking through IR for creating a better 3D experience; Super-Stable 3D.

Nintendo has already invested in motion-based experiences for three generations (Wii, Wii U, Switch).
I hope they iterate on it as hardware with ML acceleration can open up the fidelity of the experiences compared to before, which also doesn’t need as expansive hardware as the Kinect 2.0.

4 joycon mode for extra tracking. I don't know how they can even sell that mode, but it would be cool

Or retrofit the joy con motion sensors to make something similar to Sony's Mocopi. They already made those pedometers which were quite accurate compared to dedicated pedometer/step trackers. But the joycon's are much more useful for that as its primary use is a controller and I'm sure they don't want consumers to buy an extra thing (again) just for 1 dedicated game.

 

[Individualised]

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[Bonejack]

4 joycon mode for extra tracking. I don't know how they can even sell that mode, but it would be cool

Oh man, that would be expensive. ^^

And if ReDraketed Joy-Cons would have the same "reliable" connection as current Switch Joy-Cons, it wouldn't be fun. So many potential error sources. ^^

To the ring itself, not much I suppose, without also increasing the costs.
Perhaps with a front facing camera, do some body pose estimation, I think that could enable some interesting applications and higher accuracy. But it primarily has to be enabled through the joy cons itself.
The New 3DS had head tracking through IR for creating a better 3D experience; Super-Stable 3D.

Nintendo has already invested in motion-based experiences for three generations (Wii, Wii U, Switch).
I hope they iterate on it as hardware with ML acceleration can open up the fidelity of the experiences compared to before, which also doesn’t need as expansive hardware as the Kinect 2.0.

Hm, you would need to allow some leeway from the tracking though, it's hard to keep exactly the same positioning during those exercises after all.

 

[Concernt]

4 joycon mode for extra tracking. I don't know how they can even sell that mode, but it would be cool

Well, next generation, I imagine they'd use next generation Joy-Con with hopefully improved tracking. If they want an additional IR camera, extra sensors in different locations and so on, they should be able to put those in the ring itself, rather than engineering new attachment points.

 

[Shoulder]

I guess tabletop mode, plus dualing joy cons is more popular than I thought, which is cool to see actually!

So next question: Do you folks actually use tabletop mode when lying in bed? Because that just seems very inconvenient. I also can see your neck being bent like a hunchback, and looking very uncomfortable after awhile.

I occasionally game before bed while lying down, and i just hold my Switch, or Steam Deck like a handheld. Play until I’m tired, and have wined down enough.

 

[Concernt]

I guess tabletop mode, plus dualing joy cons is more popular than I thought, which is cool to see actually!

So next question: Do you folks actually use tabletop mode when lying in bed? Because that just seems very inconvenient. I also can see your neck being bent like a hunchback, and looking very uncomfortable after awhile.

I occasionally game before bed while lying down, and i just hold my Switch, or Steam Deck like a handheld. Play until I’m tired, and have wined down enough.

Tabletop Mode used to be by far my most used mode, and handheld mode least used. This has actually flipped since 2017. I've always used handheld mode in bed, though. If one wants to use tabletop mode, there's a few options. You can use a tablet holder that holds it above and in front of you and attaches to the bed frame. So you can lay flat, hands by your side and still play. You could prop it up on a beside table and just turn your head, or position the table relatively towards the foot of the bed so you don't need to look at it sideways. I know of at least one person who lays flat and props it up on their chest with hands by their side.

 

[Shoulder]

Tabletop Mode used to be by far my most used mode, and handheld mode least used. This has actually flipped since 2017. I've always used handheld mode in bed, though. If one wants to use tabletop mode, there's a few options. You can use a tablet holder that holds it above and in front of you and attaches to the bed frame. So you can lay flat, hands by your side and still play. You could prop it up on a beside table and just turn your head, or position the table relatively towards the foot of the bed so you don't need to look at it sideways. I know of at least one person who lays flat and props it up on their chest with hands by their side.

Now I’m curious how Fami reads physical books…

 

[navierStokes]

Hm, you would need to allow some leeway from the tracking though, it's hard to keep exactly the same positioning during those exercises after all.

Yes, but that is what the research field is developing for (frontal detection is already robust, from the side it becomes more difficult, but you can integrate other sensors or objects for better identification, such as a joy-con or ring fit)

real-time performance on jetson nano boards

Application 1
Application 2



etc. you can find a lot about it and real-time use is becoming more feasible on mobile-tier hardware (I’d argue that it already is possible).

Idk I feel like this is an area where I expect Nintendo to really make use of NVIDIA's partnership.

 

[ezidro3]

This is definitely not feasible (nor is it rumoured) but it would be kind of cool if Nintendo went with a 4K 120Hz screen.

In portable mode, it could run at 1080p that scales perfectly to 2160p, running at 120Hz so input latency at 60 and 40fps is minimized. But then a theoretical VR mode could take full advantage of the 4K screen and the higher refresh rate. Like the Pimax Portal.

But this is more Switch 3 than whatever is next.

 

[TheMindOfThomas]

If they get rid of detachable controllers/Joy-Con then what's even the point of making a Switch 2 lol. Downgrade for no reason.

 

[John Omaha]

Joy-Con are such a cornerstone of the Switch's identity, such a key feature, an icon all to themselves, the LITERAL, ACTUAL LOGO.

They aren't THE POSTER CHILD.

They are THE POSTER.

Their use as individual controllers is not minor nor niche, Mario Kart, Mario Party, ARMS, 1-2 Switch, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and many more all either support or require single Joy-Con play.

As I've said before, I think this site and indeed this thread can be a little insular. I would think we are mostly closer to the "hardcore" side of gamers. We have a Pro Controller or equivalent, we leave the Joy-Con attached permanently and barely even think of them.

I want to be extremely clear, this is not the mass market. This is not how the mass market treats Joy-Con. In the eyes of parents this is "the system is a handheld and comes with two controllers, wow!", in the eyes of broke college students it's "I don't need to spend an extra sixty bucks to play with my roomie? Sweet!", in the hands of casual gamers who find themselves more immersed by accurate motion controls than button inputs, they are what enable their sessions of Ring Fit Adventure and Fitness Boxing. Families buy one extra Joy-Con pair and they're sorted for every family game night of Mario Party, or 51 Worldwide Games, or Monopoly.

Joy-Con are a masterful gambit not in design, though their size for their features is impressive, but in sheer market penetration, sheer people pleaser factor. For hardcore gamers they are a full set of controls attached to what was for a time the world's most powerful handheld, for the train commuter they are a full set of controls they don't have to pack for the train ride, throw it in the bag because they're attached to the system and fit in the carrying case (this one is me). They satisfy nearly every segment of the market with an unmatched elegance, and no matter how maligned the hardware, not for one second can I justify even entertaining the idea of a Nintendo hybrid without Joy-Con.

Nintendo's Switch era has shown they are masterful at marketing, for better or worse, they are good at it. I am certain they know all this already. Joy-Con were the result of developer input internally and became a product that defined an entire formfactor. They are a success story with obvious flaws, and if the next generation truly is bigger, there's easy wins to be found in improving them.

Permanently attached controllers are for handhelds. Nintendo Switch and NG Switch are not just handhelds.

I agree, but can we get some Pro Joycons?

 

[AceBandage]

I agree, but can we get some Pro Joycons?

That'll be $80 per Con, please.

 

[Concernt]

I agree, but can we get some Pro Joycons?

That's pretty much what I expect the next generation 'Cons to be. Bigger, more comfortable, more inputs.

 

[Bonejack]

That'll be $80 per Con, please.

That would be a real Con.

 

[LiC]

 

[VagrantValmar]

It only uses one because there's no need for two sensors for this, that's all there is to it. Wario Ware Move It makes use of both, and other titles like Nintendo Labo as well.

Do you have any idea why the system uses the joycon gyro instead of the system gyro when in handheld mode?
I wish it used the system gyro so that I could play with my hori cons

 

[Ozeiyo]

I'm going to try to word this in the most respectful way possible, but it feels like the people here talking about things like tabletop mode and local multiplayer being underused are not aware of Nintendo Switch being used outside their own bubble.

Nintendo Switch is a very mainstream product. I see all kinds of people in public with a Switch. And I have seen many settings/been in situations where someone with a Switch says "hey, wanna play Mario Kart/Mario Party/etc?" and hands over a joycon/sets up tabletop mode. These are ideas that are fundamental to the appeal of the Switch. It's not just a portable console, it's the most convenient and casual way to play multiplayer games on the go or in a public setting. If anything Switch 2 will refine and improve these concepts, not get rid of them.

Tabletop mode owns. I took my Switch to a trip with friends and the apartment we rented didn't have a TV so we ended up playing FIFA and Mario Kart 64 on tabletop. It's really fun

 

[Concernt]

Do you have any idea why the system uses the joycon gyro instead of the system gyro when in handheld mode?
I wish it used the system gyro so that I could play with my hori cons

I believe that's up to the developer. Some games use the system, some use the Right Joy-Con, some use all three.

 

[Serif]

This is definitely not feasible (nor is it rumoured) but it would be kind of cool if Nintendo went with a 4K 120Hz screen.

In portable mode, it could run at 1080p that scales perfectly to 2160p, running at 120Hz so input latency at 60 and 40fps is minimized. But then a theoretical VR mode could take full advantage of the 4K screen and the higher refresh rate. Like the Pimax Portal.

But this is more Switch 3 than whatever is next.

This would be nice if console or display manufacturers enabled nearest neighbor scaling, which they sadly don't tend to do.

 

[TheMindOfThomas]

Part of me hopes the Switch 2 is as gimmicky as possible just so people in this thread can get a wake-up call about what makes Nintendo hardware special.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Part of me hopes the Switch 2 is as gimmicky as possible just so people in this thread can get a wake-up call about what makes Nintendo hardware special.

Wowie Zowie

 

[oldpuck]

Also I don't remember much if the Nvidia hacks said anything of importance about the APE and specifics of its capabilities...

It's the Audio Processing Engine (as per the diagram) and yes, Drake has it. You can get deep in the weeds if you want with Orin's docs, if you have an Nvidia account.

The high level summary - it provides the industry standard hardware to output audio over HDMI (called a High Definition Audio controller), provides a decent, programmable 10 channel mixer, and decompression/muxing/demuxing hardware.

The Switch has the same hardware, with Drake/Orin's only slightly updated - I believe it now supports enough output audio channels for 7.1 surround sound instead of just 5.1, but considering very few Switch games got past basic stereo sound, I'm not sure we'll see much take advantage of it.

 

[bmfrosty]

I agree, but can we get some Pro Joycons?

I have a pair of these that are pretty reasonable - https://a.co/d/ikLu75S - I want Nintendo do official ones for Switch 2 though.

 

[Jersh]

Negative electricity, even. https://www.wired.com/2010/02/pooch-power-dog-leash-generates-electricity/

Hah. I don't think this writer understands how little power this thing would actually generate. An LED is all I can imagine it being good for.

 

[John Omaha]

That's pretty much what I expect the next generation 'Cons to be. Bigger, more comfortable, more inputs.

The problem is that anything that would significantly improve comfort in handheld mode (grips and slightly offset sticks and face buttons) would be terrible for ad-hoc multiplayer with the sideways Joycons. That's why I would rather have a standalone Pro design that completely disregards the sideways Joycon feature.

 

[Langstonboy]

It's the Audio Processing Engine (as per the diagram) and yes, Drake has it. You can get deep in the weeds if you want with Orin's docs, if you have an Nvidia account.

The high level summary - it provides the industry standard hardware to output audio over HDMI (called a High Definition Audio controller), provides a decent, programmable 10 channel mixer, and decompression/muxing/demuxing hardware.

The Switch has the same hardware, with Drake/Orin's only slightly updated - I believe it now supports enough output audio channels for 7.1 surround sound instead of just 5.1, but considering very few Switch games got past basic stereo sound, I'm not sure we'll see much take advantage of it.

I was hoping for Atmos tbh. It was introduced in the Xbox One VCR (or was it only the One S, I haven’t tested it on my VCR since I got my Atmos setup) and I don’t have a 7.1 setup because bedroom. But I do have a very budget 5.1.2 setup made out of hopes and dreams with enough chips and scratches to kill a bear. Maybe they just don’t want to pay Dolby labs the license, and most switch games that are only in stereo are games that wouldn’t really benefit from it, or aa games (and Pokémon and xenoblade 2 for some reason).