Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
I guess we’re at “time to discuss things that won’t happen” cycle
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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They take the promise of wiimote+nunchuk and fulfill them by giving both sides equally advanced motion control, a full button layout, not having them literally tethered together, and not being nearly as bulky.
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I don’t think they’ll ditch Joy-Cons entirely, but I do think there’s going to be V2 Joy-Cons with zero externally visible changes (but several under the hood including hall-sensor sticks). I also wouldn’t be surprised if they introduced some new optional “premium Joy-Cons” that are a little more in-line physically with something like Hori’s Split Pad Compact.
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You think the next Joy cons won’t be visually different at all?
ezidro3
Moblin
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Curious what would be the limits of a more modern wireless streaming solution like the Wii U. Nintendo and Broadcom were doing an entirely lag-free 480p experience in 2012. Would 12 years and more modern Wi-Fi solution (6E and 7) be enough for a lag-free 4K HDR experience at 60FPS? Would video compression that wasn't noticeable on the GamePad be visible on a large 4K TV?
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Honestly, not really. Maybe some slight ergonomic differences (like an ergonomic bump on the back) but nah, not notably different.
Stephen
Hi. I'm not a demon. I'm a person just like you.
I was baffled by how they decided to bill an episode as being about Nintendo leaks that didn't come true and then bungled their explanation of the Grinch leak extremely hard. One guy had the classic misunderstanding that it was literally about the Grinch being added to Smash but then the person who tried to correct him was also completely wrong about why it was called the Grinch leak (something about cross promotion that I didn't really understand). Sure I was there when the Grinch leak came onto the scene but I don't think the particulars are too esoteric to research properly five years later. It makes an incredibly poor impression if you're going to talk about something without doing even the bare minimum to look into it.
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I mean I expect it to look like a standard controller, but I can’t help but expect or at least hope they figure out better comfort. I think they can have a rounded back / give the joycons a bit more thickness. The extra room i assume would also enable them to put better tech in.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
I would be interested to see how that anemic Switch 2 simulation with the 4GB 2050 fares with games that combine dynamic resolution scaling and DLSS. I'm assuming the frametime costs wouldn't change (since it will always render to the same output resolution) but it should in theory smooth out the FPS.
Apparently Ratchet and Clank has dynamic DLSS as well as the Spider Man games (ironically games that have 0% of releasing on a Switch 2). I think this is a neat feature for a console to have.
Apparently Ratchet and Clank has dynamic DLSS as well as the Spider Man games (ironically games that have 0% of releasing on a Switch 2). I think this is a neat feature for a console to have.
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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Like this?
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I have no particular attachment to the joycons, so no loss if they drop that. They are not particularly good as controllers, or from a button/stick perspective, and I assume the ability to pop them off hampers the overall hardware design, and in being able to provide larger/better sticks, an actual d pad, better triggers, etc.
I'm not sure they have much to offer in keeping them. They probably made sense when Nintendo was designing stuff like 1-2 Switch, which wasn't particularly popular, and the ability for multiple people to play on the small screen, which seemingly no one uses.
I'm not sure they have much to offer in keeping them. They probably made sense when Nintendo was designing stuff like 1-2 Switch, which wasn't particularly popular, and the ability for multiple people to play on the small screen, which seemingly no one uses.
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SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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Technically we got that trailer earlier today but not through a [Nintendo of ____] account, instead via Bamco, but Nintendo is clearly marketing the game so this is just kinda reaffirming it a bit more for me.
This is something that only gets more confirmed as more things are posted, so we'll see if this trend keeps up tomorrow... and the day after... and after the weekend... and Tuesday and so on until we get like a Metroid Prime 4 trailer or someshit.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
The solution to addressing the joy-con's weaknesses is to design better, more ergonomic split controllers (like third party controllers and the Legion Go have done) and not to abandon the idea altogether, ship bolted-on controls and make the hybrid aspect of the Switch more clunky.
Making the Switch 2 a non-detachable unit would require shipping an extra controller in the box for docked mode which is a regression. I assume the existing joy-con in the grip have been sufficient as a wireless controller for millions of Switch owners and I assume a larger, more comfortable pair of joy-con (ideally with hall-effect sticks) would be even more sufficient.
Making the Switch 2 a non-detachable unit would require shipping an extra controller in the box for docked mode which is a regression. I assume the existing joy-con in the grip have been sufficient as a wireless controller for millions of Switch owners and I assume a larger, more comfortable pair of joy-con (ideally with hall-effect sticks) would be even more sufficient.
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FloofGaming
bruh I be out here emoting
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I would make use of joycons more if they weren’t so prone to drifting, I have several pairs of joycons and almost all of them have some stick drift to them.
I hope with the switch 2 that they make these joycons have better sticks, because I find it a little bit ridiculous how the sticks on the switch lite or pro controller rarely have stick drift but the main controllers that are used to market the console have stick drift super super bad.
I hope with the switch 2 that they make these joycons have better sticks, because I find it a little bit ridiculous how the sticks on the switch lite or pro controller rarely have stick drift but the main controllers that are used to market the console have stick drift super super bad.
Joy-Boy
Bob-omb
There's already a Switch that is 100x more ergonomic, has no Joycons, and retains compatibility with external controllers (including Joycons)
Slap all the Switch 2 Features on this puppy, stick on a lil OLED screen, enable docking, and BAM, you got the best handheld of all time.
Slap all the Switch 2 Features on this puppy, stick on a lil OLED screen, enable docking, and BAM, you got the best handheld of all time.
D
Deleted member 645
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Good. Hopefully that isn't spoken of again.
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Out of morbid curiosity, do we have any info on which auto manufacturers intend on using the T234 yet?
Get the drop on the haters, call Switch 2 whatever car uses it as our vehicle to fun lol
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I think the Series S comparisons were somewhat nuanced. It was proposed that Switch 2 games may run at higher resolutions (via DLSS) than Series S games but with worse quality assets. It’s entirely subjective if that’s a better experience. For me it probably would be.
I think the Series S comparisons were somewhat nuanced. It was proposed that Switch 2 games may run at higher resolutions (via DLSS) than Series S games but with worse quality assets. It’s entirely subjective if that’s a better experience. For me it probably would be.
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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Did a little snooping around and I can confirm that, if there is a car that's using it, I can't find it. The T234 is definitely available for manufacturing and use in vehicles, it's just that there isn't a high-profile/publicly available car in develop that plans to utilise it. Doesn't help that the majority of ways to search for it are blocked by "THE NINTENDO SWITCH 2 - WITH THE POWER OF THE T239, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, LIKE SOLVING MY MARRIAGE!!"
BreakAtmo
Moblin
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Interesting. So cache actually does have an advantage over extra CUs in terms of the power budget. Maybe they really did go for more, then.
I just hope that at some point we can get 3D stacked cache in mobile devices, to help offset the slower RAM. Unless Wide I/O goes nuts and we get 1TB/s on Switch 3.
maniacmaison
Art bitch
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The Series S has mediocre raytracing, while Drake should be able to produce decent quality raytracing, potentially on par or better than base PS5.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Persistently policing other people's expectations has been their shtick, the nuance of the comparison doesn't matter. If Switch 2 and Series S are uttered in the same breath it's yet "another instance of people overhyping a Nintendo console pre-release".
Some more UE5 games with RT were announced at Samsung's Galaxy presser (as well as Diablo Immortal). Considering these are from separate companies, I think this is the work of Epic and partners integrating HW lumen for mobile devices as Qualcomm shown last year. We just might see a new lumen performance tier under High this year for low end devices and mobile. Could also be the solution to keeping the same general look for Drake ports without turning off RT entirely
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
is Switch sucessor a Ferrari or a Fusca?
omniryu
Bob-omb
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I heard that with DLSS the vram is reduce, is that true?
crazybenjamin
Boo
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It's not like there aren't plenty of people out there who don't care about the functionality, but the games that use the functionality still have an audience. With Nintendo wanting a smooth transition, I doubt they would have targeted Warioware Move It for a November 2023 release if they knew that the game would be completely unplayable on the successor console releasing in 12 or less months. And if they didn't know that the game would be unplayable...then let's just say that Nintendo has much bigger things to worry about.
lattjeful
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Depends on how you look at it. Iirc the allocated VRAM is larger than it would be for the native input resolution, but lower than it would be if the output resolution was native. So kinda in between the two.
BreakAtmo
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Exactly. Native 2160p uses considerably more RAM than native 1080p, but DLSS 2160p using 1080p as the internal resolution (so, Performance Mode) will use an amount between those two. Overall it's worth the cost, I think, since it allows Switch 2 to be a "4K system" worth less resources. It's the same as how the dogs cost is generally less than the cost of traditional rendering.
LiC
Member
Yeah, dogs require a lot less electricity and render at a pretty much unlimited framerate too.
Gingerbread Man
Paratroopa
Let's be real, Ring Fit sold more than 15M, and Switch Sports more than 10M. Those are games that need separate JoyCons. Plus, we had WarioWare and Everybody's 1-2-Switch very recently, and games that - while supporting other options - are made with the two JoyCons in mind (e.g., Skyward Sword HD, Pikmin 3 DX with the pointer, and dare I say, Splatoon). JoyCons as two separate controllers is also a very popular option for simpler multiplayer games that Nintendo has supported since the launch. It is not very talked about because... it's there, and everybody knows it's there.
JoyCons are part of Switch's identity, and they aren't going anywhere. They will likely be tweaked (and they have at least size-wise if Switch 2 really has an 8 inch screen) and they might change their name, but conceptually, they'll stay.
JoyCons are part of Switch's identity, and they aren't going anywhere. They will likely be tweaked (and they have at least size-wise if Switch 2 really has an 8 inch screen) and they might change their name, but conceptually, they'll stay.
OP
OP
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Joy-Con are such a cornerstone of the Switch's identity, such a key feature, an icon all to themselves, the LITERAL, ACTUAL LOGO.
They aren't THE POSTER CHILD.
They are THE POSTER.
Their use as individual controllers is not minor nor niche, Mario Kart, Mario Party, ARMS, 1-2 Switch, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and many more all either support or require single Joy-Con play.
As I've said before, I think this site and indeed this thread can be a little insular. I would think we are mostly closer to the "hardcore" side of gamers. We have a Pro Controller or equivalent, we leave the Joy-Con attached permanently and barely even think of them.
I want to be extremely clear, this is not the mass market. This is not how the mass market treats Joy-Con. In the eyes of parents this is "the system is a handheld and comes with two controllers, wow!", in the eyes of broke college students it's "I don't need to spend an extra sixty bucks to play with my roomie? Sweet!", in the hands of casual gamers who find themselves more immersed by accurate motion controls than button inputs, they are what enable their sessions of Ring Fit Adventure and Fitness Boxing. Families buy one extra Joy-Con pair and they're sorted for every family game night of Mario Party, or 51 Worldwide Games, or Monopoly.
Joy-Con are a masterful gambit not in design, though their size for their features is impressive, but in sheer market penetration, sheer people pleaser factor. For hardcore gamers they are a full set of controls attached to what was for a time the world's most powerful handheld, for the train commuter they are a full set of controls they don't have to pack for the train ride, throw it in the bag because they're attached to the system and fit in the carrying case (this one is me). They satisfy nearly every segment of the market with an unmatched elegance, and no matter how maligned the hardware, not for one second can I justify even entertaining the idea of a Nintendo hybrid without Joy-Con.
Nintendo's Switch era has shown they are masterful at marketing, for better or worse, they are good at it. I am certain they know all this already. Joy-Con were the result of developer input internally and became a product that defined an entire formfactor. They are a success story with obvious flaws, and if the next generation truly is bigger, there's easy wins to be found in improving them.
Permanently attached controllers are for handhelds. Nintendo Switch and NG Switch are not just handhelds.
They aren't THE POSTER CHILD.
They are THE POSTER.
Their use as individual controllers is not minor nor niche, Mario Kart, Mario Party, ARMS, 1-2 Switch, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and many more all either support or require single Joy-Con play.
As I've said before, I think this site and indeed this thread can be a little insular. I would think we are mostly closer to the "hardcore" side of gamers. We have a Pro Controller or equivalent, we leave the Joy-Con attached permanently and barely even think of them.
I want to be extremely clear, this is not the mass market. This is not how the mass market treats Joy-Con. In the eyes of parents this is "the system is a handheld and comes with two controllers, wow!", in the eyes of broke college students it's "I don't need to spend an extra sixty bucks to play with my roomie? Sweet!", in the hands of casual gamers who find themselves more immersed by accurate motion controls than button inputs, they are what enable their sessions of Ring Fit Adventure and Fitness Boxing. Families buy one extra Joy-Con pair and they're sorted for every family game night of Mario Party, or 51 Worldwide Games, or Monopoly.
Joy-Con are a masterful gambit not in design, though their size for their features is impressive, but in sheer market penetration, sheer people pleaser factor. For hardcore gamers they are a full set of controls attached to what was for a time the world's most powerful handheld, for the train commuter they are a full set of controls they don't have to pack for the train ride, throw it in the bag because they're attached to the system and fit in the carrying case (this one is me). They satisfy nearly every segment of the market with an unmatched elegance, and no matter how maligned the hardware, not for one second can I justify even entertaining the idea of a Nintendo hybrid without Joy-Con.
Nintendo's Switch era has shown they are masterful at marketing, for better or worse, they are good at it. I am certain they know all this already. Joy-Con were the result of developer input internally and became a product that defined an entire formfactor. They are a success story with obvious flaws, and if the next generation truly is bigger, there's easy wins to be found in improving them.
Permanently attached controllers are for handhelds. Nintendo Switch and NG Switch are not just handhelds.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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This is outright false. I mean, no offence, I'm not trying to be combative, but this isn't true.
1-2 Switch is a multi million seller.
Ring Fit and Switch Sports are over 10 million each.
Tabletop mode isn't some niche thing they use in advertising, I see it all the time. Switch is mainly used in the house, maybe break rooms and public transport. If you're not visiting other people's houses a lot, you probably don't see anyone's usage but your own. Because of how my college social life ended up going, I saw all sorts. Met all sorts. Saw so many Switches.
Siblings playing together on the kitchen table, and not hogging the living room. Tiny bedrooms with enough room for their laptop and a tabletop Switch. People in the cafeteria, or the common room, switches propped on tables, playing Smash. People on the train, Switch laid flat, playing chess (this is me again).
Tabletop mode and Joy-Con are not throwaway, minor, insignificant features. They are core to its mass market appeal.
I definitely use Tabletop mode for some Mario Kart when a TV isnt available, Handheld mode cramps my hands after a while so it can be painful to play handheld for long sessions because of the way the right joycon is setup with its analog sticks (Which makes sense from being able to use it as a sideways controller also)
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Yeah I don’t agree with any of this (other than 1-2 Switch not being popular). Over the life of the Switch I’ve used joycons countless times. I’ve also seen friends only use sideways joycons to play titles like Mario Kart. When Splatoon 3 dropped I played tabletop with detached joycons while my wife played on the TV with a separate console. It’s also especially handy for travel, where I’ve played some multiplayer games in tabletop mode with my partner.
They feel totally essential to what Switch is, and are yet another major differentiator from the Deck / (most) Windows handhelds.
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Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
Tabletop with an ~8" screen (if it indeed is true) is gonna be crazy. Mario party with my nephew on my V1 wasn't ideal but playable. Imagine going from 6.2" to 7.91". That will be massive.
Also, I love tabletop so I can properly use motion controls (like playing some single-player Splatoon)
Also, I love tabletop so I can properly use motion controls (like playing some single-player Splatoon)
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
Nintendo can keep the Joy-Con for it next console, but change it to adress Joy-Con drift and add a few winkles on it, like adaptative trigger, better ergonomics(i mean the next controller)
carbvan
Chain Chomp
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This is already a feature for some games, it's just not utilized much.
Yeah I think Mario Party uses it, But the Switches dont actually physically connect together, I mean like actually being able to prop it up somewhere also instead of just on a flat surface
rêverie
Bob-omb
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the new definition of insanity: checking the Future Nintendo Hardware & Speculation thread over and over and expecting to see something not related to 2025-release worries, (warranted) YouTuber hate, "does switch 2 really need exclusives?" talk, begging NateDrake for info, or any other general hysteria.
consider me insane!
consider me insane!
hooperdooper
Rattata
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Nintendo, please give us some breadcrumbs to break up this little cult of insanity on Fami for a bit
You mean connect via the Joycon rails, or some external rail that holds the units via the top? Sounds useful for an ad-hoc superwide display, though I imagine Nintendo would be skittish because of durability. If that rail breaks, then a bunch of 2witch units likely break with it.
Individualised
Bob-omb
I'm going to try to word this in the most respectful way possible, but it feels like the people here talking about things like tabletop mode and local multiplayer being underused are not aware of Nintendo Switch being used outside their own bubble.
Nintendo Switch is a very mainstream product. I see all kinds of people in public with a Switch. And I have seen many settings/been in situations where someone with a Switch says "hey, wanna play Mario Kart/Mario Party/etc?" and hands over a joycon/sets up tabletop mode. These are ideas that are fundamental to the appeal of the Switch. It's not just a portable console, it's the most convenient and casual way to play multiplayer games on the go or in a public setting. If anything Switch 2 will refine and improve these concepts, not get rid of them.
Nintendo Switch is a very mainstream product. I see all kinds of people in public with a Switch. And I have seen many settings/been in situations where someone with a Switch says "hey, wanna play Mario Kart/Mario Party/etc?" and hands over a joycon/sets up tabletop mode. These are ideas that are fundamental to the appeal of the Switch. It's not just a portable console, it's the most convenient and casual way to play multiplayer games on the go or in a public setting. If anything Switch 2 will refine and improve these concepts, not get rid of them.
BreakAtmo
Moblin
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Negative electricity, even. https://www.wired.com/2010/02/pooch-power-dog-leash-generates-electricity/
Individual Joy-Cons is the defacto standard for single-console multiplayer. I know 5 people counting myself that own a Switch and use it with people over, and all of us end up resorting to some amount of individual Joy-Cons. Outside of that, I know one person who seems to prefer a single Joy-Con when playing Mario Kart. Traditional controllers are used when able but there's never enough.
But that's the thing. While just about no one really prefers to use them like that, it's economical and convenient. I prefer that option to needing a $60 controller per-person (and IIRC it launched at $70), or a third party controller that doesn't support every feature (rumble matters in stuff like Mario Party!).
I've literally seen people play Switch in tabletop mode in the school library multiple times. It's definitely a thing
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