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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

I doubt Nintendo does either, they don't want to strain their relationships with retailers.
I think that should have further examination.

I used to work for a major department store chain doing a technical thing that helped them sell mobile phones. Mobile phones were a complicated thing that they'd be happy to do in order to get more people in buying groceries and blue t-shirts. I have no idea if they made money on it or not. It is definitely questionable if they did, and if they did, it was because of payment from the carriers for signing people up for 2 years of service. It was weird and twisty. As far as anyone could tell, it was there so they could be a 1-stop shop department store. The guy who ran the subsidiary said as much.

It would not shock me if some retailers have similar interactions with console manufacturers. They may not so bothered by Nintendo being a direct retailer on a new console. Even less so if the hurdles to buy a console through Nintendo being a bit restrictive.
 
How is Team January Reveal feeling? Optimistic? Looking to jump forward a couple months?

I feel like we're likely in a similar place to where the Switch was in October of 2016, something is coming soon, but we're not sure when. We know enough about the hardware, but not enough to be satisfied. We'll likely hear about the reveal within 24 hours of it's announcement.

We are truly in uncharted territory aren't we Furukawa?
 
I think it's not. Unofficially, Toyota Tacoma owners refer to their vehicles as Tacos, but I don't see a lawyer present, nor any trademarking. ;)
This was an amusing thing to read while literally sitting in my Tacoma, which I do call a Taco 😅

Sakurai is chaos

fawjwqcvsamkda4.large.jpg
He's just nostalgic for the western version of the NES, is all

More meat?
Hear that Noah...

Speaking from the heart, needs more Jazz

220px-Solo_Jazz_design.jpg
If I weren't so dead-set on atomic purple or SNES colors for the next Switch I'd totally reskin the dock with this design.

That would, of course, require a closed-face dock though
 
I hope it's 400, only just because that could imply it's more likely to have some decent juice in it. 350 or lower, I'd be more concerned about the gap between it and other current gen consoles.
 
Relying on Nintendo's server infrastructure for a console launch sounds like some kind of punishment.
 
How is Team January Reveal feeling? Optimistic? Looking to jump forward a couple months?

I feel like we're likely in a similar place to where the Switch was in October of 2016, something is coming soon, but we're not sure when. We know enough about the hardware, but not enough to be satisfied. We'll likely hear about the reveal within 24 hours of it's announcement.

We are truly in uncharted territory aren't we Furukawa?
I think the majority of folks have abandoned team January, but I'm in a firm "Team February" right now. Got a lot of hopium rn.
 
only a powerful console, is pretty boring, where is the concept/gimmicky that will defy the console
The brilliance about Switch is that the modular design allows for Nintendo to add in the quirkiness through software and peripherals like Ring Fit and Labo. Instead of force feeding everyone down the road of having a high concept gaming system (as in the Wii).
The Switch design is the best solution they could have come up with in decades and should be improved upon before moving on from...
 
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Thank you for sharing these articles, they're always very interesting to read.
 
We really are in uncharted territory with Furukawa as he may well have the Nintendo has to make something that can only be done on Nintendo consoles but he is also open to not just going for the least power and keeping the console as cheap as possible.
I still say and agree with other members that the likes of having a mic and camera would be brilliant to be able to give more ips like Nintendo dogs etc. Also I would love for Animal crossing to be done in AR.
 
How is Team January Reveal feeling? Optimistic? Looking to jump forward a couple months?

I feel like we're likely in a similar place to where the Switch was in October of 2016, something is coming soon, but we're not sure when. We know enough about the hardware, but not enough to be satisfied. We'll likely hear about the reveal within 24 hours of it's announcement.

We are truly in uncharted territory aren't we Furukawa?
I think the only lead we had on a January reveal was Zuby_Tech on Twitter. No one else came out with anything similar and today they mentioned they haven't heard anything since. Sorry for the prime jumpscare.
 
There was also an IR sensor in the 3DS. It's mostly known for being used by the circle pad pro, but Pokemon also had it as an option to pair 3DS's for battling/trading before swapping over to local wireless. This was actually carried over from the gen 5 games, which included infrared sensors/transmitters in the cartridges for the same purpose.
Quoting myself because I forgot to mention in the post - this was implemented for things like conventions, where simply doing a local wireless scan could result in an unreasonably large list of users. Infrared, by nature of being direct line of sight, would easily communicate with just the desired partner - but it didn't actually do the battle/trade over it, it just paired the two systems for communicating over local wireless instead. This way, you could easily connect to the device you wanted, but you were still able to properly hold the system and break line of sight throughout the actual battle (or trade).
 
If there's any solace to Toto essentially regurgitating most of this thread's expectations it's that it'll get those on the outside on the same page as us, at least to some extent. We still don't know everything about this system and likely won't until launch, but I'd say it's a step in the right direction in terms of informed discussions across social media.
 
If I weren't so dead-set on atomic purple or SNES colors for the next Switch I'd totally reskin the dock with this design.

That would, of course, require a closed-face dock though
I mean, even if you have a white OLED Taco, then all you need is a high quality vinyl sticker to slap on that bad boy...and by Jove I think I know what I'm gonna try to order online tonight!
 
I was today years old when I learned the Steam Deck doesn't have clickable trackpads. It's all haptics. The fuck.

Nintendo... work some magic with some haptic touch so I can scroll my way to freedom, thanks.
 
Let's hope we will soon go over to the "We actually have something substantial to discuss about Switch 2" Season.
For which, I want to bring up a topic that'll probably annoy people.

January, for those who aren't as aware... is kind of a dead-zone for industry news as a whole. It's probably the least active month of the year. Not as many games, and far less press-releases, showcases or news released compared to what comes later. While leaks tend to happen as companies prepare for later months, with February having many releases ready to be spoilt, January sadly isn't as active in terms of official information. While there might be something, don't expect it to be so.

I am hoping for leaks and discussions, but I ain't expecting an info dump for a while.
 
I think that should have further examination.

I used to work for a major department store chain doing a technical thing that helped them sell mobile phones. Mobile phones were a complicated thing that they'd be happy to do in order to get more people in buying groceries and blue t-shirts. I have no idea if they made money on it or not. It is definitely questionable if they did, and if they did, it was because of payment from the carriers for signing people up for 2 years of service. It was weird and twisty. As far as anyone could tell, it was there so they could be a 1-stop shop department store. The guy who ran the subsidiary said as much.

It would not shock me if some retailers have similar interactions with console manufacturers. They may not so bothered by Nintendo being a direct retailer on a new console. Even less so if the hurdles to buy a console through Nintendo being a bit restrictive.
Nintendo is already a direct retailer in many regions, what I think could damage their relationship is keeping console shipments exclusively for themselves, which only they can sell, which they will only sell to their customers.
 


EA is going to talk about how they have adapted the latest version of frostbyte to Switch at the future CES


Ojoloco covered the subject, but just in case, machine-translation if anyone is looking for one:

One of Electronic Arts' talks during CES 2024 next week will talk about adapting the Frostbite engine to other devices including the Nintendo Switch

I'll take a look to see if they comment on anything interesting.
 
Quoting myself because I forgot to mention in the post - this was implemented for things like conventions, where simply doing a local wireless scan could result in an unreasonably large list of users. Infrared, by nature of being direct line of sight, would easily communicate with just the desired partner - but it didn't actually do the battle/trade over it, it just paired the two systems for communicating over local wireless instead. This way, you could easily connect to the device you wanted, but you were still able to properly hold the system and break line of sight throughout the actual battle (or trade).
I swear X and Y had an IR only option, unless I'm remembering very poorly, I remember battling and the game telling us to bring our consoles together after EVERY TURN so the IR transceivers could see each other.
 
January, for those who aren't as aware... is kind of a dead-zone for industry news as a whole. It's probably the least active month of the year. Not as many games, and far less press-releases, showcases or news released compared to what comes later. While leaks tend to happen as companies prepare for later months, with February having many releases ready to be spoilt, January sadly isn't as active in terms of official information. While there might be something, don't expect it to be so.

I am hoping for leaks and discussions, but I ain't expecting an info dump for a while.
This isn't. Terribly true, though?

Nintendo events in January are far from uncommon. One was even planned, with exclusive demos, and got cancelled. They've had Directs and presentations in January.

They had the January 2017 Nintendo Switch showcase. In January. With new game reveals, press releases, trailers, etc., it was probably their biggest month of announcements in a LAUNCH year.

Nintendo revealing things in January isn't just precedented, it's what they did for their CURRENT console.

It may be true for the industry at large but it is demonstrably untrue for Nintendo.
 
Nintendo is already a direct retailer in many regions, what I think could damage their relationship is keeping console shipments exclusively for themselves, which only they can sell, which they will only sell to their customers.
I don't think I suggested keeping them exclusive to themselves. I suggested they hold back a percentage of them. I don't think I specified what percentage, because I didn't want to play in that detail, but I was thinking 30%.
 
For which, I want to bring up a topic that'll probably annoy people.

January, for those who aren't as aware... is kind of a dead-zone for industry news as a whole. It's probably the least active month of the year. Not as many games, and far less press-releases, showcases or news released compared to what comes later. While leaks tend to happen as companies prepare for later months, with February having many releases ready to be spoilt, January sadly isn't as active in terms of official information. While there might be something, don't expect it to be so.

I am hoping for leaks and discussions, but I ain't expecting an info dump for a while.
Oh I get that. Though to be fair it's not impossible for Nintendo who sometimes have at least a small to medium sized news the past 5 years in January. Like when they bought Next Level, announced the Metroid Prime Delay or that Mini Direct. This year they even wanted to have a full on Convention in Japan. It isn't necessarily a pattern, but I always felt like if Nintendo wants to get something out of their way fast, they'll do it usually at the beginning of the year.
 
It's been three days...
I'm not referring to "WE JUST GOT HERE AND WE SHOULD ABANDON ALL HOPE BECAUSE IT HASN'T HAPPENED IN THOSE THREE DAYS!!", I'm just talking about people thinking about "when is most likely" and January doesn't make sense for a lot of people. Production will likely start alongside the reveal, and the reveal likely won't happened before the Lunar New Year. It's not impossible, it just isn't likely.
This isn't. Terribly true, though?

Nintendo events in January are far from uncommon. One was even planned, with exclusive demos, and got cancelled. They've had Directs and presentations in January.

They had the January 2017 Nintendo Switch showcase. In January. With new game reveals, press releases, trailers, etc., it was probably their biggest month of announcements in a LAUNCH year.

Nintendo revealing things in January isn't just precedented, it's what they did for their CURRENT console.

It may be true for the industry at large but it is demonstrably untrue for Nintendo.
For all intents and purposes, you're right. Hell, I'm one of the weird people that believes in a potential Nintendo Direct Mini either this or early next month. I'm just saying that, on the whole, January isn't the most active month. I do want to point out that, barring the Switch Presentation and a Nintendo Direct Mini in 2018, not many events of significant weight have happened in January for Nintendo since the Switch was revealed, and I'm saying that a reveal in January is just... very unlikely on the whole.

However, Devil's Advocate, I have noticed a lot of weird behaviors in previous Januarys in the industry at large. Xbox's Developer Direct last year released the best game of that year via shadow drop, 2022 had several big announcements of acquisitions such as ABK and Bungie, and even 2021 had Nintendo purchasing Next Level Games. Long-term track record says "Nothing really ever happens", but maybe things are changing up on the whole? I'm trying to set my own expectations, but maybe a bit of weirdness can happen that shatters expectations. As it stands, I (and a few others) setting expectations that'll lead to surprise instead of disappointment is likely for the best.
 
Alright bubs, which one of you replied to me on Reddit and called Nate a liar over his Final Fantasy VII Remake comments?
 
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Is there really much reason to believe in a January reveal other than hopium? I huff it too so I ain't judging.
 
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This isn't. Terribly true, though?

Nintendo events in January are far from uncommon. One was even planned, with exclusive demos, and got cancelled. They've had Directs and presentations in January.

They had the January 2017 Nintendo Switch showcase. In January. With new game reveals, press releases, trailers, etc., it was probably their biggest month of announcements in a LAUNCH year.

Nintendo revealing things in January isn't just precedented, it's what they did for their CURRENT console.

It may be true for the industry at large but it is demonstrably untrue for Nintendo.

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I was today years old when I learned the Steam Deck doesn't have clickable trackpads. It's all haptics. The fuck.

Nintendo... work some magic with some haptic touch so I can scroll my way to freedom, thanks.
Yeah I didn’t figure it out until I was messing around with it while it was off. Pretty impressive stuff.
 
I'm not referring to "WE JUST GOT HERE AND WE SHOULD ABANDON ALL HOPE BECAUSE IT HASN'T HAPPENED IN THOSE THREE DAYS!!", I'm just talking about people thinking about "when is most likely" and January doesn't make sense for a lot of people. Production will likely start alongside the reveal, and the reveal likely won't happened before the Lunar New Year. It's not impossible, it just isn't likely.

For all intents and purposes, you're right. Hell, I'm one of the weird people that believes in a potential Nintendo Direct Mini either this or early next month. I'm just saying that, on the whole, January isn't the most active month. I do want to point out that, barring the Switch Presentation and a Nintendo Direct Mini in 2018, not many events of significant weight have happened in January for Nintendo since the Switch was revealed, and I'm saying that a reveal in January is just... very unlikely on the whole.

However, Devil's Advocate, I have noticed a lot of weird behaviors in previous Januarys in the industry at large. Xbox's Developer Direct last year released the best game of that year via shadow drop, 2022 had several big announcements of acquisitions such as ABK and Bungie, and even 2021 had Nintendo purchasing Next Level Games. Long-term track record says "Nothing really ever happens", but maybe things are changing up on the whole? I'm trying to set my own expectations, but maybe a bit of weirdness can happen that shatters expectations. As it stands, I (and a few others) setting expectations that'll lead to surprise instead of disappointment is likely for the best.
I'm sorry to wheel this out on you, but.

Pessimism is not the same thing as realism.

If you're stating expectations not based on precedent, but wanting to avoid disappointment, is that even what you really think?
 
I don't think I suggested keeping them exclusive to themselves. I suggested they hold back a percentage of them. I don't think I specified what percentage, because I didn't want to play in that detail, but I was thinking 30%.
I never said keeping the console exclusive itself to their store, I said keeping shipments exclusive to their store, not distributing them beyond themselves, which is the sort of thing this would require.

Nintendo keeping OVER THIRTY PERCENT of all shipments to sell either direct or to "loyal customers", while Game Stop and Target and so on scrounge for scraps would absolutely leave a bad taste in retailers' mouths. Nintendo's very own ANNOUNCED plans to ensure adequate stock is to simply PROVIDE adequate stock at launch.
 
Is it expected to have an extra cost for the DLSS when using this concurrent feature? Like if it costs 10ms it would cost 12ms doing it concurrently.

Let's say the game is running at 40fps with traditional DLSS. Using your 10ms prediction for DLSS, we would have 15ms for CPU+GPU work. If we use the concurrent feature, we have a frame completed in 15ms, then we go to the second frame and while the 2nd frame is being worked on, DLSS is also working on the last frame. Even if we add 2ms as a penalty, we would have the last frame ready with 12ms. Do we need to wait the 2nd frame to be finished (we need 3ms more) or can we already send this frame to the display?

If we don't need to wait for the 2nd frame to be ready, then it isn't as bad as I thought. Applying the same example to a 30fps game. Let's say we have the first frame done with 31ms. Then we start the 2nd frame and DLSS start working on the last frame. With 12ms the frame is completed, while the 2nd frame still need more 19ms. But if you don't need to wait these 19ms, you just send the 1st frame with a delay of 12ms and that's it. It's not thaaaat bad.

But it's possible I didn't understand all the nuances of the process of generating a frame. Let me know about any mistakes.

edit: actually, I think I'm missing something here. Because if we take a 30fps game (again), we have this: 33ms to make the 1st frame. Then we go to the 2nd frame and add 12ms for DLSS and send it to the display (total latency of 45ms). At this point, we delivered the 1st frame and we need more 21ms to complete the 2nd frame. Then we go to the 3rd frame, 12ms more to DLSS do its work and we delivery the 2nd frame with... 33ms of latency, which is the normal latency we would expect for a 30fps game. So only the first frame has an additional latency. I definitely must be doing something wrong here.

I'm just guessing when it comes to the costs, but I believe the way it works is simply that the tensor cores make the DLSS frame in parallel with the shader and RT cores rendering the next frame. The thing is that normally, the tensor cores only do DLSS after the frame has been rendered but before it's been delivered, so they sit idle during the normal rendering process. I don't know if there would be any additional cost to the upscaling process doing it this way, but it would still be being done in parallel with the standard rendering.
this was the post where I first learned about it, including a visual representation from Nvidia.
Regarding the DLSS cost discussions, one thing that is often brought up is how it's a fixed cost and it will be very heavy to do 4k upscaling with the limited amount of tensor cores that would be available in a Switch 2. But I almost never see any mention of DLSS concurrency which Nvidia introduced with Ampere. See this video where Nvidia goes through some changes from Pascal to Turing to Ampere:


cruZby1.png


You can see here how, by running DLSS concurrently with the RT and shader cores, the frame-time can be reduced by 0.7ms. Now this is obviously not a very significant boost, but this is a 3080 so this is pretty much the time it takes to do DLSS upscaling on such a powerful card, but the slower the DLSS calculation the bigger the potential gain. There will obviously be a latency cost from this, as DLSS is calculated on the previous frame while the current frame is being rendered, but while something like 10ms would be a significant chunk of your frame-time budget, it's would be a barely noticeable increase in input latency.

Is there a reason this isn't talked about? I don't know if it's ever implemented on PC games, I think most non-Turing cards capable of DLSS would upscale so quickly it might not be worth bothering with it but Nvidia clearly states that Ampere is capable of this type of concurrency. Turing on the other hand is not, so using a 20xx series card as a benchmark for Switch 2 DLSS performance seems like it could be quite misleading.


Maybe the latency increase wouldn't be an entire frame's worth, but just the cost? I'm not sure.
 
I'm sorry to wheel this out on you, but.

Pessimism is not the same thing as realism.

If you're stating expectations not based on precedent, but wanting to avoid disappointment, is that even what you really think?
I want to point out before going further that I am not claiming to be a realist nor a pessimist. I personally think those words harm speculation on the whole because they bring an artificial layer of "feeling" based on a claim into the mix instead of perspective based on personal analysis, which I believe the majority of people in this thread are doing. While you may see my claim as one of either, it is not the same as me saying I am one.

I'm trying to set expectations based on what I perceive as precedent. While I can understand how someone interprets information differently, this is what I believe to be the most likely outcome and is sensible to believe based on industry news and the current state of Nintendo's release plans. I'm not saying it's the correct one, nor is it infallible. It is fine (and probably healthier ngl) to think that Jan/Feb is far too early.

I will fully admit that I am hoping that something is announced in January, as most of us probably are, but I'm setting expectations slightly further out because that's what I believe Nintendo to be doing. Expectation and Hope are not synonymous. While hope can be expectation and vis versa, it is dangerous to use them interchangeably unless provided with a reason to believe otherwise, such as a solid leak or a confirmation of reveal.

I can see an argument for why someone would expect something to be announced in January. It is an argument which, for me personally, I do not agree with, but it is not a stance for which I want or see reason to quarrel about.
 


Everyone has an opinion now!

LETS GO!!!!!

Translation

How much fuss surrounds a "forecast" made by an analyst, huh?! This is what I made clear in the article and yet people took it as religionI make the prediction myself, it doesn’t mean it will be something absolute:• Announcement in March• Launch in June• More powerful than the Steam Deck• Continues hybrid• Improved Joy-Con• Backwards compatible with Switch 1• Improved UI with themes and music• Support for DLSS, Wi-Fi 6, 12GB of RAM, HDR and initially with 256GB of storage• Suggested Price of R$3,599• 3D Mario, Pokémon and Metroid as main lineupThis is a prediction, nothing special
 
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