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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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I'm fine with improved motion controls as long as they are not mandatory for big releases. Video gaming has really become more accessible and I hope Nintendo follows suit.
 
Concernt said:
Absolutely absurd, isn't it? It brought online play to GameBoy. Pokémon Crystal in Japan introduced the Trade Corner, basically, the GTS. On Game Boy Color.

The first Mario Kart with online play was Super Circuit in Japan, because of this accessory. Just incredible.

The NSO app for GBA doesn't support Mobile System GB, in fact the Super Circuit copy on it in Japan specifically doesn't even have the menu for it anymore, unfortunately. This gives me pause for thought, because it has me doubting if say, Pokémon Crystal on the GB app, even in Japan, would still support the trade corner, as it was non-functional in the 3DS VC version. That said, the NSO apps obviously have more of a focus on online features, so maybe they bother.

The real concern with this is of course, DS NSO, where online was very much built in and a backbone in several games. When DS NSO comes about, I really hope they include full WiFi Connection support. Or what's the point, really?
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Would it really be relevant when you can just link systems together via online emulated link cable on GB NSO instead of using Mobile System GB, tbh?
Using Mobile System GB would be a little more complicated for many reasons.

Shoulder said:
Don't forget that Nintendo had online functionality with the SNES in the form of the Satellaview add-on for JPN, and in the case with F-Zero, had actual broadcasts with real players racing, and announcers talking in the background. John Linneman with Digital Foundry talked about this in his DF Retro of F-Zero.

Like you said, it's pretty crazy what Nintendo will test trial if you will.
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Concernt said:
Whoops, I definitely forgot Satellaview was two-way. 64DD of course had RANDNET, but the base N64 had Morita Shogi 64, which used a cartridge with a built in modem for online play.

Being by far the oldest player in online console games, it's kind of shocking how bad it still is. I think perhaps a function of how slapped together Switch really was at release. Going into the next generation with revisions of the mobile app and NPLN under their belt, as well as YEARS of investing in it, even creating subsidiary for it, I am hopeful for better online.
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Satellaview WAS NOT TWO-WAY. It was physically impossible to have real players playing at the same time together in the game.
It just receives the satellite signal and nothing else. The competition was purely done by playing on each player's end, and then the game shows a password that contains the player's records to put on a postcard with the address mentioned and send it that way.
Real time multiplayer is impossible.

64DD had Randnet but there was no multiplayer titles for it, the only one that kind of did had passwords to send too, no real time multiplayer. Only Morita Shogi 64 did and it didn't have Randnet lol
 
Serif said:
People don't seem to have an agreed upon definition of 'gimmick' and have cited the analog stick and shoulder buttons as gimmicks.
The connotation I associate with gimmick is that it is something of minimal or transient value. Like the IR sensor on the GBC.


An open screen exposes the screen to scratches or worse, at all times. There's very deliberate reasons they didn't go with it in the first place, such as to emphasis the Switch is in 'home console mode' when docked.
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What about clear plastic for the face. Or a mesh.
 
@Brofield Speaking of Switch Tacos, I was going to suggest a Taco mascot, and this...thing...came up.

giphy.gif


Too much?

Serif said:
Sakurai is chaos

fawjwqcvsamkda4.large.jpg
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I'm getting buttered toast vibes here. Will it land buttered side up, or down when it pops out inevitably?
 
Concernt said:
So does a gyro pointer in Splatoon 3! I don't have any problems selecting the right beakon, and it doesn't freak out like the Wii pointer did either, whenever the sunlight got reflected or a candle flickered or some such.

An improved gyro module with say, a magnetometer to calibrate it to the earth's magnetic field continuously, would be fine for pointer controls!
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Then I guess it shows how little I've actually used the gyro in my Switch games 😅 Last time must have been either Super Mario Odyssey when I was first playing it. I've still yet to actually go through Galaxy in SM3DAS, so I have no idea how the Wii pointer was translated to gyro, but if they implemented what you suggest to ensure consistent accuracy that would be pretty rad
 
Shoulder said:
Just asking here, how do folks here typically setup their Switch dock? Mine is clearly visible from my couch, and is easy to undock at any time. I just assumed that is how most people have their Switch all setup, hence why a small sensor bar on the Switch on top of the screen seemed reasonable.

But maybe some folks here put their docks inside somewhere, or align it perpendicular to their TV?
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Mine is bellow my PC monitor. Really easy for a possible camera on the tablet to see me using my joy-cons.

But we can always have someone positioning it like Masahiro Sakurai does:

ZRNHE04.png
 
LuigiBlood said:
Satellaview WAS NOT TWO-WAY. It was physically impossible to have real players playing at the same time together in the game.
It just receives the satellite signal and nothing else. The competition was purely done by playing on each player's end, and then the game shows a password that contains the player's records to put on a postcard with the address mentioned and send it that way.
Real time multiplayer is impossible.

64DD had Randnet but there was no multiplayer titles for it, the only one that kind of did had passwords to send too, no real time multiplayer. Only Morita Shogi 64 did and it didn't have Randnet lol
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Then I probably misheard what was said in the DF Retro video then. Good to know.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
What about clear plastic for the face. Or a mesh.
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While it would solve the screen protection issue I don't think Nintendo would go for it since it still 'shows' that there is a screen there. I made this point on the last page that one reason they went with a cover is to emphasize that it's 'transformed' into a home console, so no screen should be visible at all since it's not relevant to the state of being docked.

I think it's just an element of their product design and marketing that the Switch is 'transforming' between these states as opposed to just being a handheld in an adaptor. In the reveal trailer it was really effective to see the dude slide joy con into a little black box and have the tablet pop out, the screen only being visible when it's fully ready to be played in handheld mode.

Also if there's going to be a clear plastic front then it feels like they would intend for something to display on the screen during docked mode, which I don't think they would do.
 
Concernt said:
Perpendicular for me, I used to have it behind the TV, before that it was high up, and off to the side. Facing me would be less convenient for sure, and having to make sure nothing is in the way? What a headache. Plus, unlike the Sensor Bar, Switch is often placed beside the TV, and not directly over or under it, so pointing at the TV wouldn't necessarily be pointing at it or have it in frame.

People put it in perpendicular, or inside a TV unit, or on its side- INCLUDING THEIR OWN DEVELOPERS, Sakurai uses the dock on its side to save space. They put it off to the side, or who knows where. This was fine with a home console and a seperate sensor bar on a huge long wire, not so much for a hybrid with it built in.

Also pointing at a TV isn't comfortable for everyone. Having to hold the controller up, facing the right way, for hours at a time, that couldn't fly nowadays. Remember the Switch presentation in 2017? They showed how seperate Joy-Con mean you can play with them down by your side. For some that's an accessibility feature, those with weak arms, or just people who are old and can't spend ages holding it up and pointing it at the screen. Mandating it in ANY sense, even just for calibration, is less comfortable.

Improved motion controls can happen without it, but even if they just kept motion controls the same, I gladly sacrifice the "accuracy" of Wii (which I feel is grossly overstated, anyway), for the convenience of a gyro pointer that just WORKS, in any mode, with my hands anywhere, in any position. In general, people would prefer comfort to accuracy, no? And with modern technology Nintendo could have both if they want, the Sensor Bar isn't just midly inconvenient, it's also very much antiquated, not sure that would help image wise.
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The accuracy of the Wii pointer is definitely way superior to the Switch and playing Pikmin 3 is proof of that.
I think a better gyro sensor could get closer to that though.

However, I think a built in motion sensor could still be useful even if it's just for calibrating once and improving the overall accuracy of it.
 
LuigiBlood said:
Would it really be relevant when you can just link systems together via online emulated link cable on GB NSO instead of using Mobile System GB, tbh?
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For Pokémon Crystal specifically, yes, since the Trade Corner was essentially GTS, you didn't have to just trade with friends live, you could provide a Pokémon and request a Pokémon, disconnect, come back, and someone could have fulfilled it. On DS this will be even more relevant.

Do I expect it in the NSO release of Crystal, even in Japan? No, but I would definitely like it.

I'm fairly sure for Super Circuit, that was just friends anyway, but if it was more than that, like leaderboards, downloadable ghosts from non-friends, then I'd say that's relevant, but I can't find anything readily available on what exactly Mobile Susyem GB did for Super Circuit/MK Advance. It does mean the NSO version of MK Advance doesn't have Ghost Exchange at all, if I'm not mistaken, so, hmm.

Ultimately Mobile System GB support not existing is more of a shame than a great loss- though I will note homebrewers have gotten it working to some degree, Nintendo could have done it if they really wanted to.

Nintendo WiFi Connection will be far more impactful if it's missing.
 
Serif said:
People don't seem to have an agreed upon definition of 'gimmick' and have cited the analog stick and shoulder buttons as gimmicks.
The connotation I associate with gimmick is that it is something of minimal or transient value. Like the IR sensor on the GBC.


An open screen exposes the screen to scratches or worse, at all times. There's very deliberate reasons they didn't go with it in the first place, such as to emphasis the Switch is in 'home console mode' when docked.
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i would say a gimmick, in the way people seem to be talking about them in regards to nintendo, is a novel idea that is the main marketed selling point/"innovation" of a given generation. in this sense, the IR sensor is more of a feature, much like the shoulder buttons or analog stick. much like the handheld nature of the GB, that then iterated into the GBA, i feel like the switch will iterate into the switch 2 based off of it's primary gimmick of being hybrid rather than reinventing the wheel again.

Concernt said:
I want to Yeah! this but I won't stand for Wii U GamePad slander and hope Nintendo lets me use my Switch 1 as a GamePad with Switch 2 games.

Even though I hope for this, I certainly don't expect it to happen, really Tile Mode showed that the concept is possible on the existing Switch, and the mobile app's integration with Animal Crossing New Horizons to input text and do reactions shows that inventory management or a map display woild be possible with a mobile app and they choose not to do it.
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unfortunately despite our agreement on switch 2, i can not align myself as a wii u gamepad fan. sorry to disappoint 😔
 
VagrantValmar said:
The accuracy of the Wii pointer is definitely way superior to the Switch and playing Pikmin 3 is proof of that.
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Wii U with touch or Wii Remote, and Switch, I've played Pikmin 3 with all three pointer inputs and I cannot say I agree. Improved comfort wins for me when the tradeoff, for me, was not significant.
 
Concernt said:
Microsoft tried to counter scalping with Xbox Series X|S by briefly making them available only by buying them ON an Xbox One. It's a neat idea, but I'm not sure how well it would work in practice. Ultimately the best solution to have enough stock!
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I don't think they can. What would they need, 20 million at launch?

I'd argue that they could hold a significant percentage to be sold direct, and put some limitations on it who can buy while they're stock limited (account holders who are proven to buy games on the system), and allow some preorders that way. Maybe do something like the Steam Deck invite system.
 
What the hell???? I turn my back for a few hours and now I'm 5 pages behind????? Is this because of that VGC article?
 
D36 said:
What the hell???? I turn my back for a few hours and now I'm 5 pages behind????? Is this because of that VGC article?
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i am so happy i was actively a part of this spurt in conversation or else i too would have come back to 5+ new pages and would've gotten so excited only to be let down by an analyst saying things.
 
Brofield said:
Still waiting for all that money they've made off NSO subscriptions to be reinvested into better network coding and more stable servers for online play.

Any day now...
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It annoys me massively that they seem to get a free pass on this particular issue. I want improved online stability in multiplayer games, built in voice chat / instant messaging, a better eshop that doesn’t lag and more features like folders just as much as improved specs for Switch 2.
 
Samuspet said:
It annoys me massively that they seem to get a free pass on this particular issue. I want improved online stability in multiplayer games, built in voice chat / instant messaging, a better eshop that doesn’t lag and more features like folders just as much as improved specs for Switch 2.
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I don't know that they get a free pass, Nintendo is criticized plenty for their shortcomings with their online approach. Most people would describe it as bare bones or just really poor overall. Its functional, but is missing things like voice chat that are industry standard. Its not the specs of the Switch that hold these things back, COD dating back to Black Ops on Wii supported voice chat, and voice chat in COD Black Ops 2 and Ghost was perfectly fine on Wii U. Nintendo deliberately chose to create a barrier for implementing those features on Switch. We ended up using Discord for voice chat with our online Switch games, but I would prefer it to be done on the system, even if its limited like it was on Wii U.
 
redmutineer75 said:
Imagine if you could purchase Switch 2 with My Nintendo Gold Points? It would require you to purchase around $8000 worth of games to do so in full, but it could be a compelling option for the diehard fans if they allow you to put your points towards it while paying the rest in cash.
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For reference, you would have to buy at least 2667 copies of Suika Game or 134 copies of MK8D.
 
Nintendo scares me every time they are about to launch a new console.
 
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Samuspet said:
It annoys me massively that they seem to get a free pass on this particular issue. I want improved online stability in multiplayer games, built in voice chat / instant messaging, a better eshop that doesn’t lag and more features like folders just as much as improved specs for Switch 2.
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Right? I don't even think they get a free pass as much as the average consumer doesn't care/isn't aware of what other competitors are offering.

Hell, I've given Nintendo slack for too long. First real foray into online with Wii? Yeah, it's janky, Friend Codes, SSBB sucks, The Conduit got hacked, but it functioned well enough. Wii U? Well, you've had some time to learn, but you're also grappling with HD development for the first time (by somehow pratfalling into every avoidable hole in the ground that was well documented already from PS3 and 360s growing pains), and it's still free; that's a pass. We even got proper NNID handles! That's a dub!

Switch's online presence has been abysmal. With the announcement of a mobile app for voice chat and returning to friend codes, I damn near gave up on my pre-order thinking I might as well stick with Wii U for online gaming. In the long run I'm glad I didn't, but it still soured me massively in the lead up to launch. The painfully slow rollout of NES, SNES, and N64 has not done anything to assuage my fears, and my bellyaching is well-documented throughout the NSO ST here.

Sony and MS managed to get it right from the beginning. I don't know why Nintendo can't. I'm still all too painfully aware of that Cammie Dunaway interview on GoNintendo during the Wii days how "Nintendo doesn't want to copy what others do" when it comes to online, and my god did that ever reek of a company being completely divorced from reality. She got a lot of flak for no reason, but in hindsight NoA really propped her up to be the bad guy delivering all the news no one wanted with a false smile.

There's a time for trailblazing, but when the best path forward was already forged over two decades ago by Xbox Live why are you still hacking away at the brush with a machete in the wrong direction?
 
I think I don't even talk about the online part because I don't have the strength to complain about it anymore LOL
Their p2p really won the battle against me. I lost all interest or hope.
 
As someone who's online gaming experience is largely limited to:

-User-hosted stuff, like Minecraft

-The occasional MMO

-Nintendo games

I largely stay out of these discussions because I don't really know what people want or are expecting lol. Smash is a fairly complex game where rollback is more difficult than a traditional fighter (and supports up to 8 players at once); Splatoon is a uniquely network-heavy shooter due to how ink works. Dedicated gameplay servers wouldn't fix either problem, and a better Wi-Fi setup in the Switch itself would likely go further. Games that can pull tricks to mask an unstable connection, like Mario Kart, generally do exactly that and work well enough in my experience. I also seem to have much better luck than others in Smash and Splatoon though, so who knows.

A controller with a jack for voice chat would be nice, though I have my own solution for that so I'm not too bothered.

Concernt said:
I dare to say it wasn't even a gimmick, it was their first attempt at built in wireless multiplayer, even if it didn't work out. It was the jumping off point for things still present in Switch, Ad Hoc and wireless LAN play, as well as the IR Motion Camera.
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There was also an IR sensor in the 3DS. It's mostly known for being used by the circle pad pro, but Pokemon also had it as an option to pair 3DS's for battling/trading before swapping over to local wireless. This was actually carried over from the gen 5 games, which included infrared sensors/transmitters in the cartridges for the same purpose. HGSS had infrared even earlier, which was used for Pokewalker communication. This is the reason HGSS and the gen 5 carts are black instead of grey; they're also slightly translucent, and appear translucent red under a black light.
 
bmfrosty said:
I resemble that. I was thinking more like $400 over the life of the account. That is fantastic though.
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I checked my PayPal to see how much I've spent on the eShop and oh dear.

Oh goodness, oh dear, oh my.
Oh goodness.

And that doesn't include hardware purchases.

I'd definitely qualify for 400$ equivalent, maybe not 200 individual games.

I doubt Nintendo does either, they don't want to strain their relationships with retailers.
 
Scrawnton said:
If there's anything today taught me, it's that Nintendo fans are going to lose their minds very quickly this year.
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I feel like there needs to be an iceberg on specific stuff about the Switch 2 and how "aware" people are about the device. Ranging from "Oh, everyone can expect this" to "Actually the Switch 2 holds an ancient code to reviving the Old Gods" levels of niche information.
 
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