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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

I hope they emphasize customization in the UI like with the 3DS. From home screen layouts, to themes, Mii integration, and all the special editions, it really felt like your 3DS was yours. I want that Nintendo personality back!
This so much.

I absolutely hate the direction they've gone with Platinum Points and profile icons. I have a feeling its only going to get worse like this. Everything charming about Nintendo feeling like its a fomo/lootbox/middle finger to your soul.
 
please Nintendo let me see my playtime, i dont want to wait until end of the year, to see my Switch playtime, do it like the 3DS playtime journal
This. I love seeing my playtime with as much accuracy as possible and I don't like using parental controls for that
 
I hope they emphasize customization in the UI like with the 3DS. From home screen layouts, to themes, Mii integration, and all the special editions, it really felt like your 3DS was yours. I want that Nintendo personality back!
Yup, my 3ds screen was crazy bat shit and I loved it. But I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.
 
I absolutely hate the direction they've gone with Platinum Points and profile icons. I have a feeling its only going to get worse like this. Everything charming about Nintendo feeling like its a fomo/lootbox/middle finger to your soul.

I don't mind the platinum points being the currency we use to buy customization things like themes and whatever, but profile icons being the only thing we can use them for is lame. There might be other uses for them that I don't know about, but I don't pay much attention to that stuff really.
 
I don't mind the platinum points being the currency we use to buy customization things like themes and whatever, but profile icons being the only thing we can use them for is lame. There might be other uses for them that I don't know about, but I don't pay much attention to that stuff really.
You can get physical goods, I have a Kirby tote bag.

Themes seem like an obvious addition to the Platinum Points system I really hope they do, come launch.
 
I think when it comes to more recent games what has happened is developers no longer have to support PS4/Xboxone which have outdated gpu architecture. What gets lost in translation usually is that even if those same games were created from the ground up for more modern hardware like the Steamdeck, these games like Horizon Forbidden West would look vastly improved over the PS4 original.
Yeah exactly. Just some evidence that we need to temper expectations for Switch 2. Many are expecting Monster Hunter Wilds/FFVII trilogy/GTAVI etc to be on it.
 
Admittedly I don't know much about Monster Hunter but I don't see any reason why the upcoming title can't be on Switch 2. Hell, people were using it as a showcase for what Switch 2 games will look like generally. I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually being developed primarily as a Switch 2 title, they just haven't publicly stated so yet.
 
Oh, they wouldn't use it on a 30fps game, not a chance. It would be used to take a game that manages 30-40fps with the traditional DLSS frametime cost (which I expect to be a good 10ms on Switch 2) to 60fps with the extra 16.6ms of latency instead

Is it expected to have an extra cost for the DLSS when using this concurrent feature? Like if it costs 10ms it would cost 12ms doing it concurrently.

Let's say the game is running at 40fps with traditional DLSS. Using your 10ms prediction for DLSS, we would have 15ms for CPU+GPU work. If we use the concurrent feature, we have a frame completed in 15ms, then we go to the second frame and while the 2nd frame is being worked on, DLSS is also working on the last frame. Even if we add 2ms as a penalty, we would have the last frame ready with 12ms. Do we need to wait the 2nd frame to be finished (we need 3ms more) or can we already send this frame to the display?

If we don't need to wait for the 2nd frame to be ready, then it isn't as bad as I thought. Applying the same example to a 30fps game. Let's say we have the first frame done with 31ms. Then we start the 2nd frame and DLSS start working on the last frame. With 12ms the frame is completed, while the 2nd frame still need more 19ms. But if you don't need to wait these 19ms, you just send the 1st frame with a delay of 12ms and that's it. It's not thaaaat bad.

But it's possible I didn't understand all the nuances of the process of generating a frame. Let me know about any mistakes.

edit: actually, I think I'm missing something here. Because if we take a 30fps game (again), we have this: 33ms to make the 1st frame. Then we go to the 2nd frame and add 12ms for DLSS and send it to the display (total latency of 45ms). At this point, we delivered the 1st frame and we need more 21ms to complete the 2nd frame. Then we go to the 3rd frame, 12ms more to DLSS do its work and we delivery the 2nd frame with... 33ms of latency, which is the normal latency we would expect for a 30fps game. So only the first frame has an additional latency. I definitely must be doing something wrong here.
 
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Just a follow up to why I think Nintendo is being extra careful with this reveal, here is Scott's opinion on why WiiU had a terrible marketing cycle. He makes some good points:


I'll have to give my obligatory "Fuck Scott the Woz" on account of him...
Featuring a known sexual abuser (RelaxAlax) in one of his videos after blatantly ignoring the warnings of the victim (& unfollowing said victim, Bobdunga). Scott only removed the cameo after facing pressure from the community to do so, & gave Bobdunga a half-assed apology according to her.

So yeah, fuck Scott the Woz. Protect Black women.


Admittedly I don't know much about Monster Hunter but I don't see any reason why the upcoming title can't be on Switch 2. Hell, people were using it as a showcase for what Switch 2 games will look like generally. I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually being developed primarily as a Switch 2 title, they just haven't publicly stated so yet.
MH6 is pushing for bigger areas with more monsters running about, it's definitely a current-gen game. Though the TGA stream & the drab environment didn't do the game any favors from the start.
 
What with what? tempering expectations? or expecting those titles?
The latter. The whole idea of Switch 2 is that it will be a much more viable platform (performance wise) for PS5/XSeries ports than Switch ever was for PS4/XOne. There's nothing wrong with people expecting titles like MH Wilds, GTA, Final Fantasy, etc for the next console given it's following Switch huge sucess and will be a much more powerful platform.
 
Admittedly I don't know much about Monster Hunter but I don't see any reason why the upcoming title can't be on Switch 2. Hell, people were using it as a showcase for what Switch 2 games will look like generally. I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually being developed primarily as a Switch 2 title, they just haven't publicly stated so yet.
Monster Hunter World wasn't on Switch. We got our own version. World might come to Switch 2. I don't see any evidence that Wilds will make it. We might get our own version again. The switch 2 is not as strong as a PS5.
 
Monster Hunter World wasn't on Switch. We got our own version. World might come to Switch 2. I don't see any evidence that Wilds will make it. We might get our own version again. The switch 2 is not as strong as a PS5.
Again, I see no reason why Wilds cannot come to Switch 2 based on the gameplay footage shared so far.

Respectfully you don't need to explain to everyone here where the Switch 2 stands power-wise. Plus ports from current gen consoles are going to be much easier than it was for Switch 1 due to the power gap being lesser, so even if Wilds does make good usage of current gen hardware that doesn't rule it coming to Switch 2 out.
 
Monster Hunter World wasn't on Switch. We got our own version. World might come to Switch 2. I don't see any evidence that Wilds will make it. We might get our own version again. The switch 2 is not as strong as a PS5.
MH World wasn't on Switch for two reasons...
  1. Power
  2. Sony's console exclusivity deal in most Asian markets, including Japan
 
the one scenario I see least mentioned is that Switch 2 may simply be a “boring” upgrade that doesn’t require a big marketing cycle and is just “dropped” after only a 2-3 month announcement/marketing cycle.

No special sauce. Just a better switch that can do better stuff. It would go against their philosophy of “we don’t make consoles until our developers want something the current one doesn’t give” or something like that. Or maybe the devs just simply want a more powerful switch with just maybe a scroll button or some minor thing.

Not saying this is the case but it’s a worthy possibility.
 
Sorry but Monster Hunter Wilds didn't impress me more than that compared to Monster Hunter World, there's no big visual jump, I don't see anything a Steam Deck wouldn't be able to run here
 
the one scenario I see least mentioned is that Switch 2 may simply be a “boring” upgrade that doesn’t require a big marketing cycle and is just “dropped” after only a 2-3 month announcement/marketing cycle.

No special sauce. Just a better switch that can do better stuff. It would go against their philosophy of “we don’t make consoles until our developers want something the current one doesn’t give” or something like that. Or maybe the devs just simply want a more powerful switch with just maybe a scroll button or some minor thing.

Not saying this is the case but it’s a worthy possibility.
It having a short marketing cycle and them marketing it as part of the Switch family has been brought up a few times, but I don't know how well that would work out for Nintendo as they will want to make it clear which games are for which system. It's not like mobile phones where apps are designed for many different models. Marketing it as just a "Switch Pro" is out of the question in my opinion for reasons I've stated before.

I don't think anyone is really expecting a new gimmick/massive design change though, that era of Nintendo has passed. And based on what we know the system is going to just be an upgraded Switch in the eyes of consumers regardless of how they market it.
 
Again, I see no reason why Wilds cannot come to Switch 2 based on the gameplay footage shared so far.

We've barely seen any footage.

This isn't me saying it isn't coming. This is me saying that games targeting 2025 with barely 1 minute of footage can't tell you about the viability of ports to a system that hasn't even been announced yet.

Monster Hunter World wasn't on Switch. We got our own version. World might come to Switch 2. I don't see any evidence that Wilds will make it. We might get our own version again. The switch 2 is not as strong as a PS5.

There is no evidence to say Wilds wont make it either. Wilds is more than a year out and the Switch 2 while having decent ball park info available still has lots of unknowns. It would be worthwhile to see at least 1 actual game running on it before saying what it is or isn't capable of.
 
the one scenario I see least mentioned is that Switch 2 may simply be a “boring” upgrade that doesn’t require a big marketing cycle and is just “dropped” after only a 2-3 month announcement/marketing cycle.

No special sauce. Just a better switch that can do better stuff. It would go against their philosophy of “we don’t make consoles until our developers want something the current one doesn’t give” or something like that. Or maybe the devs just simply want a more powerful switch with just maybe a scroll button or some minor thing.

Not saying this is the case but it’s a worthy possibility.
Would it be considered a hot take that I kinda hope this new console is strictly iterative? I'm sure they can find something else inside the hardware to upend the tea table, but for all the times they've reinvented the wheel, this feels like the first time where it's actually circular.
 
We've barely seen any footage.

This isn't me saying it isn't coming. This is me saying that games targeting 2025 with barely 1 minute of footage can't tell you about the viability of ports to a system that hasn't even been announced yet.
I personally think that the amount of current gen games that won't be viable on Switch 2 are very slim anyway. Steam Deck proves that.
 
It having a short marketing cycle and them marketing it as part of the Switch family has been brought up a few times, but I don't know how well that would work out for Nintendo as they will want to make it clear which games are for which system. It's not like mobile phones where apps are designed for many different models. Marketing it as just a "Switch Pro" is out of the question in my opinion for reasons I've stated before.

I don't think anyone is really expecting a new gimmick/massive design change though, that era of Nintendo has passed. And based on what we know the system is going to just be an upgraded Switch in the eyes of consumers regardless of how they market it.

But what if...
grabs flame shield
There are no exclusive Switch 2 games? What if....
All switch games work on all switch systems?

What then?

runs
 
the one scenario I see least mentioned is that Switch 2 may simply be a “boring” upgrade that doesn’t require a big marketing cycle and is just “dropped” after only a 2-3 month announcement/marketing cycle.

No special sauce. Just a better switch that can do better stuff. It would go against their philosophy of “we don’t make consoles until our developers want something the current one doesn’t give” or something like that. Or maybe the devs just simply want a more powerful switch with just maybe a scroll button or some minor thing.

Not saying this is the case but it’s a worthy possibility.
I mean, it is a possibility yes. But iirc, didn't Nintendo say in the past that when hardware is released, the Hardware development already begins on the next system? It would be a shame if after 7 years, Nintendo's devs would be like ''yeah, let's just upgrade the whole thing without any new touches'' :p
 
I get that the NX Switch situation was brought out by the mobile announcement. But in the past Nintendo has always announced their plans for new hard ware well before the actual reveal? I can’t think of a time they didn’t?
They were planning to announce the 3DS much closer to (or at) E3 2010 but had to get ahead of leaks, and announced it in a really short and dry statement on their investor relations page.
 
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But what if...
grabs flame shield
There are no exclusive Switch 2 games? What if....
All switch games work on all switch systems?

What then?

runs
I’ve definitely had that thought. It would be a way for Nintendo to keep its extremely high user base. But it falls apart when it comes to 3rd party games. Would Nintendo mandate 3rd parties to make games for both? Just seems like it would cause confusion if they allow a few exclusives but not many.
 
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Monster Hunter World wasn't on Switch. We got our own version. World might come to Switch 2. I don't see any evidence that Wilds will make it. We might get our own version again. The switch 2 is not as strong as a PS5.

I vaguely recall hearing that they experimented with World on Switch and couldn’t get it working. They informed shareholders that title(s) would be developed specially for the platform and that culminated in Rise.

Switch 2 is not Switch, and its capabilities (gaps) relative to the rest of the market won’t be identical. And Wilds is not going to be a game that demands PS5 capabilities - it’s coming to Series S for example, and will likely scale a bit on PC when that hits. Not saying it for certain will come to Switch 2, but saying it won’t come is just pessimism.
 
But he did also specifically say they were focused on supporting Switch through March 2024 and will continue to support it in the next fiscal.

Corporate speak. The alternative would have been "No, we're not supporting Switch this fiscal year ending March 2024", I'm sure you wouldn't expect him to say that.

To me this is one of those statements that, in retrospect after the announcement, makes it obvious we won't get hard Switch 2 news until late March.

No, it does not remotely mean that at all. All it means is Switch 1 will continue to get support. They're not going to throw Switch 1 out on the street to die while Switch 2 is on the way.

March announcement/reveal. June direct games blowout. Sept-Nov launch.
That's fine, that's your own speculation. Nothing Furukawa said explicitly rules out a Switch reveal between now and then either. Switch 2 isn't going to be released as soon as it is revealed, you know that right?

When console ends and another begins, there has always been overlapping releases. This is no exception.
 
I vaguely recall hearing that they experimented with World on Switch and couldn’t get it working. They informed shareholders that title(s) would be developed specially for the platform and that culminated in Rise.

Switch 2 is not Switch, and its capabilities (gaps) relative to the rest of the market won’t be identical. And Wilds is not going to be a game that demands PS5 capabilities - it’s coming to Series S for example, and will likely scale a bit on PC when that hits. Not saying it for certain will come to Switch 2, but saying it won’t come is just pessimism.
Didn't say it won't. I just am not so sure we will get versions of these games that run acceptably. Nor am I sure we will get them at all. I would get it on Switch 2. I just have a feeling I'll be forced to get these games on my PC. I'll feel like I'm missing out with how they will perform. At a price point of 400 dollars Switch 2 is not going to be extremely powerful.
 
It's a good perspective ngl, and sounds like pretty good for a 1-year reveal to release plan, I just took a smidge of issue with the example provided.

That being said, everything else is a very reasonable. An announcement at a shareholder meeting, to a proper trailer soon-ish, to a release in November makes sense. I'm still with a lot of hope of the "February reveal" theory, but we'll see how it pans out.

As for your question... uhhhhh... I believe there's going to be acting agencies for trailers (though they managed to avoid scrutiny in 2016 and 2017 when they had lotsa commercials so it's not that high risk), potential conversations with marketing partners (namely stuff at Summer-Game Season or with Geoff if he didn't completely burn bridges with them), and... like... maybe other retailers? That last one I need some double-checking for, but otherwise not many other companies will be talking with Nintendo about the Switch 2 to any large capacity.
Honestly it's difficult to split out my wishful thinking that stems from wanting to know everything (right now!).

I think the question in the timeline for information dissemination in regards to a new console release is of where knowledge has to go wide enough that an NDA is just not going to hold.

Things that I can think of quickly:

Communications to retailers
Preparation that happens at the retailer side
Device Manufacturing
Packaging Design and Manufacturing
Production of advertising

Each of these could probably be broken apart into multiple subtopics.
 
Monster Hunter World wasn't on Switch. We got our own version. World might come to Switch 2. I don't see any evidence that Wilds will make it. We might get our own version again. The switch 2 is not as strong as a PS5.
Have you actually played Rise on Switch?

I don't see any evidence Wilds is too advanced for Switch 2 based on footage we have seen.
 
Idk. They squeezed titles like Witcher 3 and DOOM Eternal on a Tegra X1, essentially off the shelf, throttled, with zero upscaling tech. And those were acceptable enough state to release those games in.

The new Switch seems custom tailored to receive more current gen ports. Not all of them, but more in proportion to the current Switch, no? I can't imagine publishers releasing games on Series S but won't even try a 540p -> 1080p DLSS on Switch 2. Especially titles like Monster Hunter.
 
Didn't say it won't. I just am not so sure we will get versions of these games that run acceptably. Nor am I sure we will get them at all. I would get it on Switch 2. I just have a feeling I'll be forced to get these games on my PC. I'll feel like I'm missing out with how they will perform. At a price point of 400 dollars Switch 2 is not going to be extremely powerful.

I think we need to reset our expectations a bit on the Switch 2.

We already have some including our own @necrolipe indicating we’ll see a lot more third party announcements by end of year alongside PS5 and Series consoles. If I remember correctly “the next mainline Monster Hunter” was called out specifically, although it’s not clear if this was speculative.
 
But what if...
grabs flame shield
There are no exclusive Switch 2 games? What if....
All switch games work on all switch systems?

What then?

runs
In full honesty, it's an interesting concept. I honestly couldn't tell you if there are any xbox series x games that couldn't be done on the xbox one with the graphics turned way down.

I'm super happy to scale it down a bit though. What if a supermajority of titles that come out during the Switch 2 generation also work on the OG Switch?

And when I say majority, I mean majority. No removing Dave the Diver scale games just because they're low res 2d pixel games and only count games that are big budget AAA titles. Gollum counts just as much as Suika Game.

Crap shovelware that doesn't sell still counts.

Another interesting thought experiment is what if we're hitting the wall on die shrinkages and after the Switch 3, it's just not feasible to squeeze much more performance out of 15w? What is Nintendo's path forward?
 
the one scenario I see least mentioned is that Switch 2 may simply be a “boring” upgrade that doesn’t require a big marketing cycle and is just “dropped” after only a 2-3 month announcement/marketing cycle.

No special sauce. Just a better switch that can do better stuff. It would go against their philosophy of “we don’t make consoles until our developers want something the current one doesn’t give” or something like that. Or maybe the devs just simply want a more powerful switch with just maybe a scroll button or some minor thing.

Not saying this is the case but it’s a worthy possibility.
Isn't that what we all expect? For Switch 2 to be a iterative evolution of Switch? Nintendo knows they can't handle and support an modern HD platform on their own and that they need strong 3P support (Which is also something they have been boasting quite happily on their Financials about how 3P make nearly 50% of Switch software sales). Iterative, safe platforms, is something that Nintendo hasn't been able to provide ever since SNES (Or arguably GC) and one of the strongest points of Playstation consoles. Nintendo finally replicating this would be an immense boon for them.
 
There are no exclusive Switch 2 games? What if....
All switch games work on all switch systems?
This is literally technically impossible because the Switch and the Switch 2 not only have different APIs that are incompatible with each other, but they have GPUs with different architectures that are also incompatible with each other.
A game can only be made for one of them, unless you develop 2 separate versions of each game.
The possibility that this is a Pro system is zero because the Switch 2 hardware as it is, is incapable of running switch 1 games at all, which is something you wouldn't want if you were designing a pro system.
It's why backward compatibility has been such a hot topic after all, and we are currently assuming that a translation/emulation layer for the GPU will be the solution they will use to get the Switch 1 games to run on the Switch 2.
 
I managed to convince my parents to pay for half a ps2 because it was a DVD player (And my father really wanted to watch the LOTR extended edition). They tried the same thing with the ps3, but the effect was not has strong I actually do not know anyone you still buys physical BR movies
Lots of people still do. Not the majority obviously, but its the only true way. Streaming is convenient and great, but unlike a digital game library, you obv compromise on fidelity and the next day yiu could wake up to your favourite being pulled. Eg westworld. For the record, I buy 4k discs of movies I like.
 
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