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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Rockstar are the one and only development house that can tell their huge publishers no and there’s plenty of examples of this in the past. They’ve earned Take Two’s trust. This imo is why there’s no PC version at launch (rather than the conspiracy theories that they want console players to buy the game again on powerful PC’s they may or may not have when they’ve completed the story mode two years prior on console and most likely play the online mode with their console friends).

A much simpler explanation is that they instead want to focus on three platforms instead of four (which of course includes many different possible configurations on PC which is a much more time consuming endeavour) to avoid a Cyberpunk / numerous other current gen AAA game launch fiasco in terms of optimisation.

I was under the impression NVMe speed SSD’s run incredibly hot and have their own heat sync inside PS5?

Sorry, I forgot to reply to this. On Rockstar, it's important to remember that Rockstar are Take Two, it's just a publishing brand they use for big budget open world games. The creation of the Rockstar publishing brand, and the renaming of DMA Design to Rockstar North was part of a move to exert more control over the studio; they literally forced the studio heads to move to New York so that they'd be in the same building as Take Two's management. They can't tell Take Two no any more than I can tell myself no when there are tasty snacks in front of me (I try, it doesn't work).

On the NVMe drives, they can run hot, but it depends on a few different things. Firstly whether it's reading or writing data. If a drive is only reading data, it consumes a lot less power, as shown in the graphs in the post I linked to. This is because there's not a lot for the flash controller to do when reading data, it's literally just passing data from the NAND to the PCIe link. The flash controller is a lot more busy when writing data, because it has to manage the health of the NAND while doing so. If you just rewrite data over and over to a single NAND cell, it loses its ability to hold charge, and can no longer store any data. So when you write files to an SSD, the flash controller has to keep track of what condition every block of NAND cells is in, and write to the least damaged cells, to maintain the health of the drive (this is called wear levelling). This requires a lot more processing power than just passing data across, so it consumes a lot more power than when reading, and the faster you write data, the more power is consumed.

The reason this isn't an issue on consoles is that you're never really going to be writing data that fast. The MP600 Mini I linked to consumes up to 3.6W while writing, but that's at a rate of around 3.7GB/s. There's no need for a console to write data that fast, as generally you're only writing to the drive when you're downloading a game, or a patch, or saving a game. In the first two scenarios, you're limited by your broadband speed, which even for the fastest connections would be around 0.1GB/s (assuming Nintendo even had servers which could keep up with that, which they don't). Saving games only involves very small amounts of data, and similarly doesn't need much bandwidth. In theory if you're doing an Xbox style quick-resume where you're dumping the entire contents of RAM to storage, you could hit higher write speeds, but it would only be very briefly.

The other factor is what kind of drive it is. Higher-end drives usually have on-board DRAM to improve performance, and these will usually consume more power (around 2-3W for reads for PCIe 4.0 drives these days, it seems). Lower-end drives, like the ones I showed you, don't have DRAM, and consume less power. Both Xbox Series and PS5 use SSDs without DRAM, and the smaller M.2 2230 drives I was looking at (which are as large as you could fit in a Switch style device) are all made without DRAM, so if Nintendo were to use an NVMe drive, it's safe to say it would be one of the cheaper, more efficient drives without DRAM.
 
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Other than Mana, what games announced today would ever be considered realistic for the Switch 1.

Metaphor is eating shit on the 12 teraflop Series X and it’s honestly impressive, I have no idea how it’s running so badly despite looking this bad and being small environment.

Sega Super Game is scheduled for 2026.

So like…
 
Remember how DQ's Horii flat out said that DQ11 comes to Switch, or rather NX at that time? While the console was technically "announced" already (as in "We're working on the next system blablabla" Nintendo PR), it was basically still breaking NDA.
I dont think the DQXI announcement was breaking NDA because Ubisoft also announced Just Dance for NX very deliberately, loudly and proudly on their E3 stage before Switch was revealed, and SEGA also announced Sonic Frontiers for NX as well. I think it's clear Nintendo had given everyone thengo ahead to announce NX games, after that codename was officially made public :)

As for the psychology of NDA breakage. In my opinion it's pretty clear. If you've ever been in a situation where almost all of your time is going into your job, and you don't have much free time, you might find that when you do socialise, you feel you don't have much to talk about except for job related things. I've certainly been in this situation recently.

Anyway, it's going to sound silly, but the absolute truth is that during face to face conversations there are strong psychological pushes for us to make as interesting conversation as possible. It's just how we function, we like to, and can sometimes feel pressured into, making interesting conversation, out of fear of seeming boring and losing people's attention and friendship.

So it's pretty easy to imagine how people end up talking about things they've agreed to keep private (if they feel they can get away with it, which in this context, they very often can).
 
World of Goo 2 not having platforms announced while Goo 1 was Wii Ware and everything Tomorrow Corporation has been Nintendo console exclusive (possibly input limitations, but still), makes me strongly suspect it's for the successor, possibly even a launch day eShop title.

This doesn't tell us much about the hardware if this is the case, other than it'll have touch and a pointer (which could still be gyro), although I dare to say if that is what they're doing, it means the incredibly small team at Tomorrow Corporation is in contact with Nintendo, and may have SDK or even hardware devkit access. With such a small team being clued in and presented with development access, I think it's reasonable to think that development kits are now pretty widespread, including in the hands of indie developers, and that's reassuring.
 
SO you guys think that Baldurs Gate 3 is Switch 2 bound ? well there was that thing with a Nintendo employee right?
I think so, absolutely, in fact I think a lot of what was shown at TGA will end up on Switch 2. Monster Hunter Wilds, World of Goo 2, Baldur's Gate 3, and more. It was a Nintendo light presentation because nobody can discuss the big Nintendo news, or that their games are headed to a platform that isn't when announced yet
 
Tough to say if BG3 can be on Switch 2 without knowing the CPU power.

Maybe they can cut some NPC interactions or massively tone down the earthquake effect or move a bunch of CPU functions to the GPU.
 
Screenshot_2023-12-08-15-19-58-95_f9ee0578fe1cc94de7482bd41accb329.jpg

World of Goo official platforms is so tongue in cheek it's practically drilling a hole in its own mouth.

Also I think I heard the GameBoy startup sound in the trailer.

No reason to be coy unless you don't have a choice! Especially when according to the website, it's releasing "soon".

Oh, also, in the trailer, the World of Goo 1 footage was the Wii version, with the player using a stylised Wii remote on a CRT. When it switches to Goo 2 gameplay, no input device is shown.

I find it... Almost hard to believe they'd reference the console version of the first one, and how it was only on a Nintendo console with a pointer, if it wasn't for a Nintendo platform, and I find it hard to believe they wouldn't announce platforms if it was only going to Switch.

Thus, I suspect this is being intentionally cheeky, referencing coming to a Nintendo console, but not stating anything outright. So people can draw their own conclusions.
 
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I dont think the DQXI announcement was breaking NDA because Ubisoft also announced Just Dance for NX very deliberately, loudly and proudly on their E3 stage before Switch was revealed, and SEGA also announced Sonic Frontiers for NX as well. I think it's clear Nintendo had given everyone thengo ahead to announce NX games, after that codename was officially made public :)

As for the psychology of NDA breakage. In my opinion it's pretty clear. If you've ever been in a situation where almost all of your time is going into your job, and you don't have much free time, you might find that when you do socialise, you feel you don't have much to talk about except for job related things. I've certainly been in this situation recently.

Anyway, it's going to sound silly, but the absolute truth is that during face to face conversations there are strong psychological pushes for us to make as interesting conversation as possible. It's just how we function, we like to, and can sometimes feel pressured into, making interesting conversation, out of fear of seeming boring and losing people's attention and friendship.

So it's pretty easy to imagine how people end up talking about things they've agreed to keep private (if they feel they can get away with it, which in this context, they very often can).
Sonic Forces not frontiers
 
Other than Mana, what games announced today would ever be considered realistic for the Switch 1.

Metaphor is eating shit on the 12 teraflop Series X and it’s honestly impressive, I have no idea how it’s running so badly despite looking this bad and being small environment.

Sega Super Game is scheduled for 2026.

So like…
Well Persona 3 but that's a dead horse already.
 
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with the question positioned about stuff like Monster Hunter Wilds, I have to recall back to the whole "capcom asked for 4GB" misinformation. I think what was happening was Nintendo was fielding inquiries from third parties about their desired minimum specs. with Wilds being in development for a while, Nintendo asking them about desired minimums for Drake could be met with some possible cpu spread that Monster Hunter 6 might require. and I think Nintendo would do their best to hit those measures
 
Other than Mana, what games announced today would ever be considered realistic for the Switch 1.

Metaphor is eating shit on the 12 teraflop Series X and it’s honestly impressive, I have no idea how it’s running so badly despite looking this bad and being small environment.

Sega Super Game is scheduled for 2026.

So like…
World of Goo 2!

But then why wouldn't they announce platforms... Unless 🤫

As for everything else, well, end of a generation lull. Switch 2 should be capable of dealing with most of these things, so I think we quietly saw a number of games being announced thst will come to Switch 2, that just can't say it yet.
 
So, switch was definitely targeting around an XBox360+ performance spec. Where you basically had an Xbox 360, or a PS3, but better. We know for a fact that the Switch 2 has to target at least that, with no tricks like DLSS and the like. It's interesting that the games showed basically look like PS4 + games, especially from Capcom and Square Enix.
Tough to say if BG3 can be on Switch 2 without knowing the CPU power.

Maybe they can cut some NPC interactions or massively tone down the earthquake effect or move a bunch of CPU functions to the GPU.
You can easily play Baldurs Gate 3 on the steam deck. It's not going to be an issue. Especially because Larian can optimize the game specifically for the system, and Nintendo does not have a parity agreement like Xbox.
 
With such a small team being clued in and presented with development access, I think it's reasonable to think that development kits are now pretty widespread, including in the hands of indie developers, and that's reassuring.

Image and Form were the first 3rd parties in all of Europe to get access to NX, so I don't think it tells us anything about how many, or what category of, developers have access to a console just because one indi studio has access. It's clearly all about the personal relationship between Nintendo and the studio, and not about the size of the developer.

 
So, switch was definitely targeting around an XBox360+ performance spec. Where you basically had an Xbox 360, or a PS3, but better. We know for a fact that the Switch 2 has to target at least that, with no tricks like DLSS and the like. It's interesting that the games showed basically look like PS4 + games, especially from Capcom and Square Enix.
Not exactly. It was very much current gen at release, feature wise, and Microsoft states its performance relative to Xbox One as 0.75TF to Xbox One's 1.4TF, which places it closer to Xbox One than 360.

It was well positioned to play 360 games but looking even better, yes, but it was a current gen handheld through and through at launch, and one should expect the same of their next console.

It's not a handheld "PS4+". It's a handheld current gen console, with an architecture coming in a version ABOVE current home consoles.

Capable of playing PS4 games but... More, bigger, prettier? Absolutely. But also built to get games from PS5.

I would tend to very much believe the statement that this time next year, we'll be seeing multiplats doing an awful lot of "Coming to Xbox, PS5 and Switch 2". It appears built with getting current gen multiplats in mind from what we can glean of T239.
 
Image and Form were the first 3rd parties in all of Europe to get access to NX, so I don't think it tells us anything about how many, or what category of, developers have access to a console just because one indi studio has access. It's clearly all about the personal relationship between Nintendo and the studio, and not about the size of the developer.


That's just not true.

If you don't think the larger European studios didn't get access with or before them, I don't know what to tell you. Ubisoft, also European, was 100% kept in the loop before they even announced the codename. Especially since they launched a Switch exclusive using the Mario property year one.
 
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with the question positioned about stuff like Monster Hunter Wilds, I have to recall back to the whole "capcom asked for 4GB" misinformation. I think what was happening was Nintendo was fielding inquiries from third parties about their desired minimum specs. with Wilds being in development for a while, Nintendo asking them about desired minimums for Drake could be met with some possible cpu spread that Monster Hunter 6 might require. and I think Nintendo would do their best to hit those measures
If that happened, it would have been before T239 was taped out, so while it's definitely reassuring, we can't infer much from it other than "T239 PROBABLY GOOD".
 
SO you guys think that Baldurs Gate 3 is Switch 2 bound ? well there was that thing with a Nintendo employee right?
Yeah that's the 3rd party relations person at Nintendo, also credited in Divinity. Larian also said "not on Switch but maybe in the future" when asked about a Switch version of BG3 few years ago.
 
Its weird that Nintendo didn't at least announce the switch 2 yet even in a press text release or something like they did for the wii u or 3ds and even the nx, it seemed like a ton of tga games would have been announced for switch 2 but they can't show it cause switch 2 hasent been announced yet. A press release type announcment before tga saying Nintendo is working on switch successor would have sense to avoid that.
 
Its weird that Nintendo didn't at least announce the switch 2 yet even in a press text release or something like they did for the wii u or 3ds and even the nx, it seemed like a ton of tga games would have been announced for switch 2 but they can't show it cause switch 2 hasent been announced yet. A press release type announcment before tga saying Nintendo is working on switch successor would have sense to avoid that.
I suspect they want to hold the cards close to the chest until the moment of. A press release would send, well, the press, absolutely bonkers. There's already plenty of articles about Switch 2 without them needing to announce anything. Unlike NX's codename announcement, there isn't a dying console they need to excuse with an early press release.

I don't think we get a code name this time. One day, a trailer will drop, and that will be that.
 
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Its weird that Nintendo didn't at least announce the switch 2 yet even in a press text release or something like they did for the wii u or 3ds and even the nx, it seemed like a ton of tga games would have been announced for switch 2 but they can't show it cause switch 2 hasent been announced yet. A press release type announcment before tga saying Nintendo is working on switch successor would have sense to avoid that.
It's definitely unclear why they wouldn't have announced it so that MHWilds could be announced for it too. Like I get holiday sales might take a hit even with an announcement at the game awards, but it's sort of like robbing your future success to maintain a steady drop of your current success. Switch is down 600k units yoy in Japan and sold about half as many units as it did this week last year there, so it's not like we are talking about 5M sales or something.
 
I mean, at a certain position/rank, you're kinda "above the law".

Remember how DQ's Horii flat out said that DQ11 comes to Switch, or rather NX at that time? While the console was technically "announced" already (as in "We're working on the next system blablabla" Nintendo PR), it was basically still breaking NDA.

But outside of a "please don't do it again, ok?" you can bet that Horii didn't have issues with both SQEX and Nintendo. He's simply too important.

Question about that. Say some "important" developer does in fact casually mention their game will be coming out for Switch 2, and/or says Nintendo's next system. What is the worst that could happen in that case? Lawsuit? Game is barred from coming to the system? Fines? What would Nintendo be prepared to do besides the usual sending the Ninjas? Would they actually bar a game from coming to the system as spite?

Officially, Switch 2 does not exist, but unofficially, it's roaming around like mice in your basement. We know it's there, and we've seen rumblings, but we cannot nail down specifically what is going on.
 
Also anyone remember that super secret August 2019 Nintendo press event for a game? We speculated about it on the Nintendo thread at Era. Turned out to be Divinity. Yeah Nintendo held a press event just for Divinity port. They do care for Larian's support.
 
Question about that. Say some "important" developer does in fact casually mention their game will be coming out for Switch 2, and/or says Nintendo's next system. What is the worst that could happen in that case? Lawsuit? Game is barred from coming to the system? Fines? What would Nintendo be prepared to do besides the usual sending the Ninjas? Would they actually bar a game from coming to the system as spite?

Officially, Switch 2 does not exist, but unofficially, it's roaming around like mice in your basement. We know it's there, and we've seen rumblings, but we cannot nail down specifically what is going on.
i mean didn't Square announce DQ11 for the NX before it was even shown off/announced?
 
If that happened, it would have been before T239 was taped out, so while it's definitely reassuring, we can't infer much from it other than "T239 PROBABLY GOOD".
and they probably have. the 4GB comment happened after Nintendo already decided on 4GB, so asking after they designed the chip could still give some useful information
 
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It's definitely unclear why they wouldn't have announced it so that MHWilds could be announced for it too. Like I get holiday sales might take a hit even with an announcement at the game awards, but it's sort of like robbing your future success to maintain a steady drop of your current success. Switch is down 600k units yoy in Japan and sold about half as many units as it did this week last year there, so it's not like we are talking about 5M sales or something.
Furukawa, unlike Iwata or Yamauchi, makes decision for short term metrics and his own job security.
 
It's definitely unclear why they wouldn't have announced it so that MHWilds could be announced for it too. Like I get holiday sales might take a hit even with an announcement at the game awards, but it's sort of like robbing your future success to maintain a steady drop of your current success. Switch is down 600k units yoy in Japan and sold about half as many units as it did this week last year there, so it's not like we are talking about 5M sales or something.
No one should be surprised.
 
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It's definitely unclear why they wouldn't have announced it so that MHWilds could be announced for it too. Like I get holiday sales might take a hit even with an announcement at the game awards, but it's sort of like robbing your future success to maintain a steady drop of your current success. Switch is down 600k units yoy in Japan and sold about half as many units as it did this week last year there, so it's not like we are talking about 5M sales or something.
Yeah it is odd that they are going about it this way. Forces the 3rd parties to have to ignore Nintendo on announcement of their games, continuing the trend of associating these types of games with PS and XB.
 
I quoted Bonejack's comment for exactly that reason as he stated in his post.
i need to drink my fucking coffee then. I just glanced over it so that's on me.

The answer is nothing really cause Square was probably Nintendo biggest 3rd party supporter in terms of quality and quantity. Or at least top 3 lol. I can't think of who would be higher. Square did walk back the comments a little but the cat was out of the bag.
 
Just "watched" TGA by mashing YouTube's skip button for a few minutes. People said Nintendo didn't bring anything this year, but that's not true at all, there was a Super Nintendo World ad.

But yeah, obviously the new hardware is coming next year, but in terms of third party announcements for Switch, it wasn't all that different from most years. It's just the kind of show TGA is. I don't think the slate of Switch games has just suddenly dried up; if anything it's been recently accelerated with a lot of eleventh hour ports. Nintendo's own presence (or lack thereof) you can debate as to what it means about hardware, but the third party stuff is not really anything (suspicious no-platforms-announced games aside).
 
Its weird that Nintendo didn't at least announce the switch 2 yet even in a press text release or something like they did for the wii u or 3ds and even the nx, it seemed like a ton of tga games would have been announced for switch 2 but they can't show it cause switch 2 hasent been announced yet. A press release type announcment before tga saying Nintendo is working on switch successor would have sense to avoid that.
Even had they done a text announcement prior I don’t think it would matter here.
 
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Question about that. Say some "important" developer does in fact casually mention their game will be coming out for Switch 2, and/or says Nintendo's next system. What is the worst that could happen in that case? Lawsuit? Game is barred from coming to the system? Fines? What would Nintendo be prepared to do besides the usual sending the Ninjas? Would they actually bar a game from coming to the system as spite?

Officially, Switch 2 does not exist, but unofficially, it's roaming around like mice in your basement. We know it's there, and we've seen rumblings, but we cannot nail down specifically what is going on.
Any breach of NDA would damage the studio's relationship with Nintendo and make them unlikely to get any advance communication on future hardware, and reduce Nintendo's willingness to support or promote their current games. If it was serious and intentional, like actually revealing branding, specs, release date, etc., then Nintendo probably would sue them.

I quoted Bonejack's comment for exactly that reason as he stated in his post.
Wait, are people imagining that the DQ announcement was a breach of NDA? That was definitely sanctioned by Nintendo. They had already announced NX and even its release window, so they let a couple close partners (Square and Sega) announce games for it.
 
Any breach of NDA would damage the studio's relationship with Nintendo and make them unlikely to get any advance communication on future hardware, and reduce Nintendo's willingness to support or promote their current games. If it was serious and intentional, like actually revealing branding, specs, release date, etc., then Nintendo probably would sue them.


Wait, are people imagining that the DQ announcement was a breach of NDA? That was definitely sanctioned by Nintendo. They had already announced NX and even its release window, so they let a couple close partners (Square and Sega) announce games for it.

My memory is better served elsewhere for retaining information, so I have no recollection of that DQ11 on Switch thing.

As far as the first part of your post though, thank you for detailing that out. (y)
 
It's definitely unclear why they wouldn't have announced it so that MHWilds could be announced for it too. Like I get holiday sales might take a hit even with an announcement at the game awards, but it's sort of like robbing your future success to maintain a steady drop of your current success. Switch is down 600k units yoy in Japan and sold about half as many units as it did this week last year there, so it's not like we are talking about 5M sales or something.
Maybe can simple mean that MH Wilds isn’t going to be release at Switch 2, at least not day 1.

Same can be said for Visions of Mana.
 
Other than Mana, what games announced today would ever be considered realistic for the Switch 1.

Metaphor is eating shit on the 12 teraflop Series X and it’s honestly impressive, I have no idea how it’s running so badly despite looking this bad and being small environment.

Sega Super Game is scheduled for 2026.

So like…
I wouldn't even consider Mana realistic, unless it got butchered in the process.
 
It's definitely unclear why they wouldn't have announced it so that MHWilds could be announced for it too. Like I get holiday sales might take a hit even with an announcement at the game awards, but it's sort of like robbing your future success to maintain a steady drop of your current success.
Robbing the future success how? Whose sale is lost if a game is announced for a platform 1 year before it releases instead of 1.5 years?
 
It's definitely unclear why they wouldn't have announced it so that MHWilds could be announced for it too. Like I get holiday sales might take a hit even with an announcement at the game awards, but it's sort of like robbing your future success to maintain a steady drop of your current success. Switch is down 600k units yoy in Japan and sold about half as many units as it did this week last year there, so it's not like we are talking about 5M sales or something.
Am I the only one who doesn't get why it would've been a good idea to announce MHWilds for Switch 2 last night? Switch 2 is a 2024 console, Wilds is 2025. They still have time to announce the game for the console. Just seems unnecessary if the game is that far away. There's no benefit and holiday sales could potentially be made worse than they already are.
 
Am I the only one who doesn't get why it would've been a good idea to announce MHWilds for Switch 2 last night? Switch 2 is a 2024 console, Wilds is 2025. They still have time to announce the game for the console. Just seems unnecessary if the game is that far away. There's no benefit and holiday sales could potentially be made worse than they already are.
No, I am of the same opinion.

Was the PlayStation version of MH Rise announced simultaneously? I am really asking because I am unsure.

But either way the game isn’t even releasing next year. Calm down folks!
 
Was the PlayStation version of MH Rise announced simultaneously? I am really asking because I am unsure.
MH Rise was Switch exclusive for a decent amount of time, before coming to PC, and then eventually other platforms. But yes I also agree that there is no need to announce Switch 2 this early, just for the sake of some third party announcements. Whenever the next system gets shown, I'm sure we will see announcements from said third parties in a sizzle reel or whatever.
 
Looking forward to january now, holiday sales obsession will be over and Switch sales will be dropping hard all over the world, so Nintendo leadership can then begin to speak about Switch 2.
 
Looking forward to january now, holiday sales obsession will be over and Switch sales will be dropping hard all over the world, so Nintendo leadership can then begin to speak about Switch 2.
They are already dropping hard, but as you say the holiday period will be over. Hopefully they don’t make us wait too long…
 
I'm kinda half expecting a Direct about Switch games in the usual February slot where midway through, totally nonchalantly, they say "We are currently working on new hardware to succeed the Nintendo Switch. Please look forward to an announcement at a future date" then get back to showing us Luigi's Mansion 2

Everybody when Nintendo says they are working on the successor to the Switch and nothing else:



Would be a bad idea.
 
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