lemonfresh
#Team2024
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
- Start date
easternlights
Rattata
Hah, I should have specified I meant a thread where anything goes as long as it's about the successor. But the mods stepped in already, so I don't have more to say.
On the topic of hardware: what do people think the signature colour of the new system (or the Joy-cons and dock, at least) is going to be? One of the easiest ways to visually differentiate the new system even if its general shape stays the same would be to use a colour scheme that the Switch has never had.
I assume we might get a completely black version (which was reserved for devkits in the case of the Switch), but that won't really pop out enough in ads to be the flagship launch edition, I think.
How does Nintendo benefit from the use of Mesh Shaders?
I think it's a given that the Switch 2 will support Mesh Shaders since Nvidia's GPUs had hardware support for Mesh Shaders when Turing released in 2018. Does Mesh shaders allow for more complex environments and character models without it being taxing to the GPU?
From what I read on Mesh Shaders from PC Mag:
"TL;DR version to begin with. Mesh shaders let game developers process polygons with far more power and control than the old vertex shaders ever did. So much so, that games of the near future could be throwing billions of triangles around the screen and your GPU will just breeze through it all."
www.pcgamer.com
From what I can understand...I may be wrong because my brain is a little dumb with articles like this...Is that Mesh Shaders isn't taxing on the gpu and we can see developers utilize Mesh Shaders in a way to get better visuals over the traditional method Vertex shaders. This could lead to better geometry, environmental details, and character modals.
Would this hardware feature lead to games we may think is impossible to run on the Switch 2 actually run on the Switch 2.
Edit: idk if this question is suitable for this thread or the other switch thread so I do apologize if I crossed the line.
I think it's a given that the Switch 2 will support Mesh Shaders since Nvidia's GPUs had hardware support for Mesh Shaders when Turing released in 2018. Does Mesh shaders allow for more complex environments and character models without it being taxing to the GPU?
From what I read on Mesh Shaders from PC Mag:
"TL;DR version to begin with. Mesh shaders let game developers process polygons with far more power and control than the old vertex shaders ever did. So much so, that games of the near future could be throwing billions of triangles around the screen and your GPU will just breeze through it all."
Mesh shaders explained: What are they, what's the big fuss, and why are they only in Alan Wake 2?
Why it's taken so many years for mesh shaders to actually be used in a game.
From what I can understand...I may be wrong because my brain is a little dumb with articles like this...Is that Mesh Shaders isn't taxing on the gpu and we can see developers utilize Mesh Shaders in a way to get better visuals over the traditional method Vertex shaders. This could lead to better geometry, environmental details, and character modals.
Would this hardware feature lead to games we may think is impossible to run on the Switch 2 actually run on the Switch 2.
Edit: idk if this question is suitable for this thread or the other switch thread so I do apologize if I crossed the line.
Joy-Boy
Bob-omb
My kingdom for an Indigo one
carbvan
Paratroopa
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- he/him
That's exactly what it is yes.
OctoSplattack
Chain Chomp
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Low-effort posts not related to hardware discussion are strongly discouraged and subject to moderation. - meatbag, MissingNo, Dardan Sandiego
Page Wii. The wait continues.
GamerJM
Chain Chomp
RumHamRigRunner
Giant
- Pronouns
- any
I didn’t even know that he featured Alax in a video (probably because it was removed). How in the hell did he get a TV deal after the fact? Infuriating. Never gonna watch that fucker again.
Also pivoting on-topic again but is it really true that apart from the supposed ‘Super Nintendo Play’ code name there were no hardware related leaks for the last two weeks or so?
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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Derilian
Cappy
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A heaping bowl of Hope’n’Cope, part of every balanced breakfast!
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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Why though? I think even Pyoro would know that's trollish. Hyping up Warioware game?
Edit: Pyoro was just updating his profile pic, he said so in the tweet. That tweet isn't supposed to be a hint of anything. Right?
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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- he/him
No way in hell that Pyoro has more stuff to leak. Genuinely refuse to believe that ngl.
lemonfresh
#Team2024
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carbvan
Paratroopa
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- he/him
He trolls all the time. Updating his pfp doesn't really mean much imo.
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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- he/him
Ah ok, got it. Didn't realize he has trollish tendencies (haven't followed Pyoro until literally like after the last Direct)
Waffles245
Struggling Engineer
The thing is, Pyoro is never on twitter unless they have something to leak. And the timing for this is extremely sus too. Maybe some birds will sing for us soon
Pacobob
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- He
As you said, he's only on Twitter when he has something to say.
RumHamRigRunner
Giant
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- any
Basically the benefit is efficiency gains for rasterization, specifically when running games that utilize hardware for mesh shaders. Look at the Digital Foundry video of Alan Wake 2 and its optimized rasterized settings by Alex Battaglia. Towards the end he compares a GTX 1080 Ti, RX 5700 XT, and RTX 2080 in a like-for-like scenario. In terms of traditional raster performance in older games that do not benefit from mesh shader hardware, these GPUs have performance that is similar, but in Alan Wake 2, the RTX 2080 has performance that is more consistent and considerably better than the other two. And this is with hardware-accelerated ray-tracing disabled.How does Nintendo benefit from the use of Mesh Shaders?
I think it's a given that the Switch 2 will support Mesh Shaders since Nvidia's GPUs had hardware support for Mesh Shaders when Turing released in 2018. Does Mesh shaders allow for more complex environments and character models without it being taxing to the GPU?
From what I read on Mesh Shaders from PC Mag:
"TL;DR version to begin with. Mesh shaders let game developers process polygons with far more power and control than the old vertex shaders ever did. So much so, that games of the near future could be throwing billions of triangles around the screen and your GPU will just breeze through it all."
Mesh shaders explained: What are they, what's the big fuss, and why are they only in Alan Wake 2?
Why it's taken so many years for mesh shaders to actually be used in a game.
From what I can understand...I may be wrong because my brain is a little dumb with articles like this...Is that Mesh Shaders isn't taxing on the gpu and we can see developers utilize Mesh Shaders in a way to get better visuals over the traditional method Vertex shaders. This could lead to better geometry, environmental details, and character modals.
Would this hardware feature lead to games we may think is impossible to run on the Switch 2 actually run on the Switch 2.
Edit: idk if this question is suitable for this thread or the other switch thread so I do apologize if I crossed the line.
Basically mesh shaders are a more efficient shading paradigm compared to traditional vertex shaders. If what necrolipe was saying about ray-tracing being common on NG is true, that would mean that Nintendo would also have to maximize raster efficiency since the better performance you have in rasterization, the more headroom you have to implement ray-tracing. So yes, mesh shaders are key to that. It’s no mistake that DX12 Ultimate, Microsoft’s current-gen API designed around ray-tracing and upscaling technologies also supports mesh shaders.
yea, it can definitely lead to better looking games. the high level of mesh shaders is that it squashes the old geometry pipeline into a simpler pipeline that's much more flexible to the developer's whims. with that simplification, devs can program finer grain culling that allows for more polygons on screen, so models can be much more detailed without taking up more resources. they can generate polygons on the fly, so you don't have to create and store a mesh in storage or ram. geometry to the developer's content.How does Nintendo benefit from the use of Mesh Shaders?
I think it's a given that the Switch 2 will support Mesh Shaders since Nvidia's GPUs had hardware support for Mesh Shaders when Turing released in 2018. Does Mesh shaders allow for more complex environments and character models without it being taxing to the GPU?
From what I read on Mesh Shaders from PC Mag:
"TL;DR version to begin with. Mesh shaders let game developers process polygons with far more power and control than the old vertex shaders ever did. So much so, that games of the near future could be throwing billions of triangles around the screen and your GPU will just breeze through it all."
Mesh shaders explained: What are they, what's the big fuss, and why are they only in Alan Wake 2?
Why it's taken so many years for mesh shaders to actually be used in a game.
From what I can understand...I may be wrong because my brain is a little dumb with articles like this...Is that Mesh Shaders isn't taxing on the gpu and we can see developers utilize Mesh Shaders in a way to get better visuals over the traditional method Vertex shaders. This could lead to better geometry, environmental details, and character modals.
Would this hardware feature lead to games we may think is impossible to run on the Switch 2 actually run on the Switch 2.
Edit: idk if this question is suitable for this thread or the other switch thread so I do apologize if I crossed the line.
despite what people might think, Nintendo's "simpler styles" can still use more geometry. if they want Mario to have that rounded CGI look, they need more polygons. and Zelda can finally have rocks that don't look like blobs any more
Hosermess
Koopa
4 new videos posted on their youtube account today. They're obviously clearing the deck for something.
/s
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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- he/him
His timing being near the release of a Warioware game.
Look, I appreciate the optimism with this, but until he actually says something, I'm not going to lost another 3 hours and a half of sleep waiting for an announcement... At least the copium from last night was kind of funny.
Leakers sneezing doesn't mean there's something big. Just because Snitch or Pyoro typed letters, doesn't mean there will be something big soon.
ERezaSwitch
Piranha Plant
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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How does Nintendo benefit from the use of Mesh Shaders?
I think it's a given that the Switch 2 will support Mesh Shaders since Nvidia's GPUs had hardware support for Mesh Shaders when Turing released in 2018. Does Mesh shaders allow for more complex environments and character models without it being taxing to the GPU?
From what I read on Mesh Shaders from PC Mag:
"TL;DR version to begin with. Mesh shaders let game developers process polygons with far more power and control than the old vertex shaders ever did. So much so, that games of the near future could be throwing billions of triangles around the screen and your GPU will just breeze through it all."
Mesh shaders explained: What are they, what's the big fuss, and why are they only in Alan Wake 2?
Why it's taken so many years for mesh shaders to actually be used in a game.
From what I can understand...I may be wrong because my brain is a little dumb with articles like this...Is that Mesh Shaders isn't taxing on the gpu and we can see developers utilize Mesh Shaders in a way to get better visuals over the traditional method Vertex shaders. This could lead to better geometry, environmental details, and character modals.
Would this hardware feature lead to games we may think is impossible to run on the Switch 2 actually run on the Switch 2.
Edit: idk if this question is suitable for this thread or the other switch thread so I do apologize if I crossed the line.
Don't worry, your question is entirely on topic for this thread (in fact pretty much the only on-topic post in the last 10 pages). It's a Hardware & Technology thread, so questions on graphics technologies like mesh shaders are welcome.
robertman2
Chain Chomp
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- He/him
Is it didn't know, or don't give a shit?
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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- he/him
Both?
Warioware isn't all that popular as a series compared to many others and the hype surrounding this one was kinda overshadowed by the fact that a brand new 2d Mario game released a couple of weeks ago. Kinda clear to see what happened here.
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
due to Switch Lite been the Switch model that sell the least, Nintendo might launch Switch sucessor as base model, and some years later then launch a OLED model for Nintendo next hardware
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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I mean even still Pyoro changing their pfp to the new Pyoro from the new game with Pyoro should've triggered a response of "oh yeah the new game with Pyoro is coming out" instead of "hint?????"
goombaicebro
Luma
me seeing the mod warnings about off topic posts at the pages before:
Hosermess
Koopa
I did not know who or what a Pyoro was until somebody mentioned it on this page just now.
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
i would be more hyped if instead of another WarioWare, Nintendo has anounced a Wario Land or even a Wario World 2, this would be worthy be hyped for a new Wario game
everything is gonna be a hint until the 7th.
People just need to chill and not jump on tiny things(or nothing at all) like a nintendo youtuber.
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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IMO this is fine because it relates to the hardware that is within the device itself. With mesh shaders, games of the PS5/ Series X/Series S would be easier to bring to Drake without having to do as aggressive cuts, the GPU will bette handle the geometry in a more efficient manner that reduces memory bandwidth constraint and memory footprint compared to the last generation of systems. So you can do more with less relative to say, the PS4 or XB1. With mesh shader, culling is also more efficient or feasible: you have what you need, you don’t show what you don’t see so it’s not needed, hence more efficient.How does Nintendo benefit from the use of Mesh Shaders?
I think it's a given that the Switch 2 will support Mesh Shaders since Nvidia's GPUs had hardware support for Mesh Shaders when Turing released in 2018. Does Mesh shaders allow for more complex environments and character models without it being taxing to the GPU?
From what I read on Mesh Shaders from PC Mag:
"TL;DR version to begin with. Mesh shaders let game developers process polygons with far more power and control than the old vertex shaders ever did. So much so, that games of the near future could be throwing billions of triangles around the screen and your GPU will just breeze through it all."
Mesh shaders explained: What are they, what's the big fuss, and why are they only in Alan Wake 2?
Why it's taken so many years for mesh shaders to actually be used in a game.
From what I can understand...I may be wrong because my brain is a little dumb with articles like this...Is that Mesh Shaders isn't taxing on the gpu and we can see developers utilize Mesh Shaders in a way to get better visuals over the traditional method Vertex shaders. This could lead to better geometry, environmental details, and character modals.
Would this hardware feature lead to games we may think is impossible to run on the Switch 2 actually run on the Switch 2.
Edit: idk if this question is suitable for this thread or the other switch thread so I do apologize if I crossed the line.
Also allows for more complex geometry and environments for say, xenoblade. So, to use another example even if they’ll probably still mess it up, a series like Pokemon which has a lot of creatures moving about as of the most recent game to attempt to make the world believable can make excellent use of Mesh Shaders/Task Shaders to achieve the goal while also not absolutely tanking the framerate as much as SV did.
And can fit higher textures and other things to make the world look better or more believable and cohesive.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
Posts not related to hardware discussion are strongly discouraged and subject to moderation. - meatbag, Dardan Sandiego, MissingNo
I made fun of the idea that Nintendo would announce the Switch 2 today because they wouldn't want to bury Wario Ware, but then Nintendo ended the preview embargo of SMRPG today.
These sickos fucking hate Wario Ware.
These sickos fucking hate Wario Ware.
7hatDeadCat
Piranha Plant
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- he/him
are there performance differences between amd and nvidia when it comes to mesh shading? is it anything like raytracing where the t239 may actually be competitive with the ps5/xsx?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
Both use mesh shaders. The PS5 uses something weird that is slightly different from mesh shaders, but the performance gap is apparently not large at all.
HankyPanky
Bob-omb
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- Funcle
this post is far too grounded & sensible. which probably means it's totally on the money.
i expect the launch to be at the start of the next FY, could mean anytime between May-Summer potentially. definitely not March.
it's looking increasingly likely that the March date is going to be a software blow-out, hence why it would be relevant to third-party devs. 3-4 months is more than long enough between this event and release.
this leaves us with with the various things that point to imminent mass production & a potential reveal (presumably involving software if we're giving any weight to the amiibo theory).
leaves us with a few scenarios:
- mass production isn't about to begin but will do sometime at the start of next year. radio silence.
- mass production is about to begin and Nintendo will say something very minor at the Investor Call. they run the risk of Funcles/Buncles etc scooping something although they don't seem to be saying much lately (silenced?). cmon Funcles where are you???
- announcement as production begins in November. we're shown a trailer revealing the look of the system, features and a preview of selected first party launch titles (games relevant to the amiibo restocks). launches May/June.
- same as the above but more extensive reveal including selected third party titles. March date could be a submission deadline for launch titles with more trusted partners having their games ready some time ago.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
Why would Nintendo launch the Switch 2 in July or August.
7hatDeadCat
Piranha Plant
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yeh i know that both amd and nvidia have mesh shading, im asking if theres any known difference in performance between their methods of mesh shading like there is with raytracing
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
I don't think so. The PS5 might be a tiny bit slower.
yohoopzcrazy
Cappy
To be 100% honest, I too do not understand what Mesh Shaders exactly are, but here's a tangible way to know why they are really important:How does Nintendo benefit from the use of Mesh Shaders?
I think it's a given that the Switch 2 will support Mesh Shaders since Nvidia's GPUs had hardware support for Mesh Shaders when Turing released in 2018. Does Mesh shaders allow for more complex environments and character models without it being taxing to the GPU?
From what I read on Mesh Shaders from PC Mag:
"TL;DR version to begin with. Mesh shaders let game developers process polygons with far more power and control than the old vertex shaders ever did. So much so, that games of the near future could be throwing billions of triangles around the screen and your GPU will just breeze through it all."
Mesh shaders explained: What are they, what's the big fuss, and why are they only in Alan Wake 2?
Why it's taken so many years for mesh shaders to actually be used in a game.
From what I can understand...I may be wrong because my brain is a little dumb with articles like this...Is that Mesh Shaders isn't taxing on the gpu and we can see developers utilize Mesh Shaders in a way to get better visuals over the traditional method Vertex shaders. This could lead to better geometry, environmental details, and character modals.
Would this hardware feature lead to games we may think is impossible to run on the Switch 2 actually run on the Switch 2.
Edit: idk if this question is suitable for this thread or the other switch thread so I do apologize if I crossed the line.
At the 15:00 mark, Alex from DF showcases a comparison between GPUs that do and do not support Mesh Shaders. On paper, these GPUs should be comparable, but comparing them head-to-head like this, it's obvious that Mesh Shaders play a huge role on why AW2 can have so much geometric detail (as Alex points out).
HankyPanky
Bob-omb
- Pronouns
- Funcle
seems unlikely. if productions is indeed imminent, it'll be May/June.
if it isn't, we're looking at the Sep-Nov timeframe (with the big reveal in March).
goombaicebro
Luma
Low-effort posts not related to hardware discussion are strongly discouraged and subject to moderation. - meatbag, Dardan Sandiego, MissingNo
wario when he sees nintendo doing wario erasure:
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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PS5 has primitive shaders fwiw, which aren’t 100% DX12U compliant (but PS5 also doesn’t use DX12U so it’s a bit of a wash) which is what Mesh Shaders are, but it’s in that general direction, so close enough
Sebastian
Locuza replying to Sebastian
Locuza continuing his previous tweet:
Locuza continuing his previous tweet:
Sebastian replying to Locuza at the end.
Put in the chain of tweets for those who don’t have Tw*tter
Sebastian
Locuza replying to Sebastian
Locuza continuing his previous tweet:
Locuza continuing his previous tweet:
Sebastian replying to Locuza at the end.
Put in the chain of tweets for those who don’t have Tw*tter
I was having a hard time understanding what Necrolipe meant about RT being common on the NG because in my mind I don't see Nintendo having enough RT cores to make it effective but with other hardware techniques Nintendo and other 3rd parties have at their disposal they could make RT work if the utilize the resources saved from using mesh shaders over the traditional vertex shaders, RR, and DLSS to make RT playable in Nintendo games.
ILikeFeet thank you for simplifying it for me, with the new hardware features the Switch 2 supports. I am now understanding the saying of working smarter and not harder when it comes to game development. If this means we will see more complex rocks in zelda games I am all for it!!!
Thank you for sharing this with me, I didn't realize the Ps5 does not support Mesh Shaders but instead they use Primitive shaders. This could best explain some of the frame rate differences between the Series X and ps5. What excited me the most in this video is the fact the Series S didn't sacrifice too much in terms of graphical fidelity in comparison to the Series X performance mode. It makes me feel like we could see very similar performance between the Series S and the switch 2 if Alan Wake 2 is ported over to it.
there is a performance difference, but it's not much.
the number of RT cores isn't as important as you think. it's important, but in the context of too few, it's not. what's important is the data that the RT cores work on. the cores do testing and traversal of a BVH data structure. if the data structure is large, 12 RT cores would take more time than a higher clock or larger quantity of RT cores. but games built for Drake or games with scalability in mind will have smaller BVHs or alternative data structures (probes, voxels, surface caches, etc)
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