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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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People just seeing the Switch 2 Devkit now are not priority partners. The people Nintendo wants titles from immediately already have devkits in hand. People seeing stuff for the first time at gamescom are the fill in the Catalog Developers between the major guys.
 
Rich is mentioning down-clocking an RTX 2050 to try to simulate t239 settings. Obviously Id be curious how one would match the CPU in that situation, given there really isnt a good direct equivalent of an 8-core arm CPU in real world settings (ignoring benchmarks), but if it happens I'd need to see how simulated Portal RTX runs. One has to imagine freed from the shackles of running alongside a PC operating system and with the benefits of console optimization, the real thing would only run better. It seems, interestingly, that the 2050 is less capable than the 2060 super especially considering differences in architecture, but close enough that it warrants noting, Alex was able to get Portal RTX running at 1080p >40 fps on performance mode on a 2060 super at Portal RTX launch, again, with all the constraints I just described.

Definitely implies a greater challenge, for instance an open world game like BoTW, might be difficult to fully ray trace on the hardware, but it also does open up the possibility that with optimization it could happen. Worst case in ultra performance mode.
 
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Beansy said:
No way will it be 32. 8-12 has been more than enough for quite some time.
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That won't be the case for a system meant to operate throughout most of the 2030s, though. But I think it's way too early to speculate with any certainty about what a system designed for that decade with the tech of the late 2020s will be like.
Slash said:
Nate says BoTW demo was shown running at 4k/60 fps, paired with DLSS
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For so long I've had it in my head "They'll maybe have to choose between 1440p60 or 4K30" that this is great to hear. Though using a Switch 1 game is a pretty edge case which theoretically makes it very easy to allow a large amount of frame time to be used for DLSS. But even at that, it gives us an upper limit of how much time DLSS might take. Like, if 4K60 is feasible at all then both 4K30 and 1440p60 would definitely use less than half the frame time.
 
quelseydilla said:
We out here bois
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Matrix demo with Ray-Tracing equal or better then current gen consoles? this seen too farfect to be true, Nintendo doing a powerful console, i have doubt, Nintendo has stopped doing powerful console(GC was the last), no way a console such as this exist, without a horrible battery and a prohibitive price
 
Kenka said:
In a nushell:

2023-09-1116_36_00-boy1iyv.png


Two key takeaways:

  • The tensor cores in Drake can generate a 4k output in less than 16.6 ms
  • Drake can draw 2.25 more pixels than Switch (900p -> 1080p) at half the time at most, making it at least 4.5 times more powerful at raw rasterization
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1080p is 1.44x the pixels of 900p not 2.25x (that would be the gap between 720p and 1080p) but also because of the not insignificant cost of 4K DLSS (likely 5-6ms), it would be rendering that in substantially less than half the time (I'm guessing closer to 10ms/100fps which is a bit less than 1/3), which means you're probably not far off with that 4.5x number. Of course I wouldn't be surprised if there was even more headroom, as I'd expect raw raster to have improved by a bit more than 4.5x.

Anyone up for a 120fps Zelda with DLSS disabled?
 
Giancarlo said:
Matrix demo with Ray-Tracing equal or better then current gen consoles? this seen too farfect to be true, Nintendo doing a powerful console, i have doubt, Nintendo has stopped doing powerful console(GC was the last), no way a console such as this exist, without a horrible battery and a prohibitive price
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Ray tracing better than next gen consoles is not out of the question at all. The other consoles are all AMD stuff which Nvidia's hardware blows out of the water when it comes to raytracing. Nvidia vs AMD ray tracing is almost not a fair comparison. As for battery life, I'm sure they'll tone down the lighting and stuff and rendering the game at like 480p internally then upres for portable so there's not as much power being used.
 
Giancarlo said:
Matrix demo with Ray-Tracing equal or better then current gen consoles? this seen too farfect to be true, Nintendo doing a powerful console, i have doubt, Nintendo has stopped doing powerful console(GC was the last), no way a console such as this exist, without a horrible battery and a prohibitive price
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It's not like it's an article of faith for them. "No, please, NVIDIA, stop being so good at ray tracing, we've stopped doing powerful consoles!"
 
For God's sake, Gamecube wasn't the last powerful hardware from Nintendo. It was Switch. It was a powerful mobile hardware which left a lot of people impressed. At times the talk about Switch power feels like revisionism.
 
Coco98bisFR said:
Okay thanks. It looks like usual fake leaks including what people exactly want so I don't believe in it, even though it would be very cool, obviously.
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The reason this is even discussed is because of how much they got right, which is everything apart from the last bit which is unproven. This wasn't just a "saw the presentation a few days early" thing either, the content they talked about spanned multiple months of reveals.

There's always the chance they're a good guesser, or tacked on the bit on the end just to be a troll, but I think it's worth keeping in mind.
 
korok said:
For God's sake, Gamecube wasn't the last powerful hardware from Nintendo. It was Switch. It was a powerful mobile hardware which left a lot of people impressioned. At times the talk about Switch power feels like revisionism.
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For a 2017 tablet, it was pretty nuts. The only reason why it's not so highly praised anymore is because we're 7 years since launch lmao
 
Bonejack said:
Nintendo to nVidia: "Hey, remember how your fault enabled the most fucked-up pirating on the Switch? Yes? Anyway, we want something good, real good, and we want it for cheap."
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John brought up some really good points in the DF Direct. Nvidia probably wanted to lead this project as much as Nintendo wanted to partner with them again. Switch was a runaway succus and Nintendo has been a great partner with them.

This is yet another opportunity to flex their tech and this time they get to cut down an Orin chip and give Nintendo something more specific than what was essentially a mobile Android GPU that people were iffy on back in 2015-2017.
 
Ryuji said:
I noticed Rich from Digital Foundry also mentioned he “wouldn’t be surprised” if Switch 2 launched earlier than late next year.
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With Nate's March 2024 info, I see it no later than July 2024 now. Nintendo said their future consoles would also like to have a quicker announcement-to-launch time right? Well March 2024 is either an announcement, or a release. If it's an announcement, we're not waiting 8 months until November because that wouldn't be quick at all. This is H1 2024 and it might even be this fiscal year which is insane.
 
TSMC 4N has to be a given at this point, right?

4K 60 FPS BotW, Matrix Awakens with better RT than PS5 and Series X.....it just sounds like the CPU and GPU clocks will have to be running much faster than the current Switch. Which means this needs to be on a pretty modern and advanced node to maintain efficiency.
 
Keep in mind that when the Switch was released in March 2017, the NX was 'leaked' months prior in July 2016 and we basically knew what the system design was going to be.

www.eurogamer.net

Nintendo NX is a portable console with detachable controllers

Nintendo's upcoming NX will be a portable, handheld console with detachable controllers, a number of sources have confi…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

In 2023, we're close to mid September and we still don't have a similar style of leak yet.

Is this because the launch is further out than March 2024 and developers don't have finalised development kits yet?
 
Giancarlo said:
Matrix demo with Ray-Tracing equal or better then current gen consoles? this seen too farfect to be true, Nintendo doing a powerful console, i have doubt, Nintendo has stopped doing powerful console(GC was the last), no way a console such as this exist, without a horrible battery and a prohibitive price
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Heres an analysis of the 3080 against a very similarly performant (in rasterization) GPU from AMD, and explaining how much more performant Nvidia's ray tracing architecture is than AMD when removed from the bottlenecks of the rest of rendering



It isn't that Nintendo is magically out-performing the ray tracing of some higher end machine. Its that, in my opinion, the PS5 and Series X were never equipped to perform in ray tracing to begin with. That alone doesnt necessarily explain the gap, but add in the performance gains of DLSS, and yeah, the idea the Switch could output more rays in the time that a Series X or PS5 does isnt surprising at all. Not guaranteed, but not surprising either. Its also just a good explainer on how the ray tracing architecture is implemented in the first place.
 
Should the new Switch be able to 4k/60fps (DLSS) all Switch games that are 720p/60fps if patched and the only difference between versions is resolution?
 
YolkFolk said:
Keep in mind that when the Switch was released in March 2017, the NX was 'leaked' months prior in July 2016 and we basically knew what the system design was going to be.

www.eurogamer.net

Nintendo NX is a portable console with detachable controllers

Nintendo's upcoming NX will be a portable, handheld console with detachable controllers, a number of sources have confi…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

In 2023, we're close to mid September and we still don't have a similar style of leak yet.

Is this because the launch is further out than March 2024 and developers don't have finalised development kits yet?
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We already know It's just the same form factor, and on steroids thanks to Nvidia.

The main gimmicks didn't leak last time until January Presentation like the HD Rumble etc we still have to see what kind of magic gimmicks they are gonna put out of their hat
 
Sol said:
TSMC 4N has to be a given at this point, right?

4K 60 FPS BotW, Matrix Awakens with better RT than PS5 and Series X.....it just sounds like the CPU and GPU clocks will have to be running much faster than the current Switch. Which means this needs to be on a pretty modern and advanced node to maintain efficiency.
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Yep. 3.45-4.2TF methinks.
 
P4bl0 said:
H1 Fam


yes-sir-yes-boss.gif
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You lot have no shame.

For months you were saying 2023 and if anyone thinks differently (i.e 2024) then they're wrong.

When it becomes clear 2023 is just not happening then you switch and celebrate being 'right' for 2024.

You genuinely mocked me two months ago for saying 2024 hahaha

All good fun. :)
 
Concernt said:
I still expect 399

All the "impressive" stuff is thanks to the SOC and RAM. Some calculations have been run in this very thread, and 4N fabbed T239 would be... very, very affordable. It's impressive, but it's not a lot of silicon in the grand scheme of things. Meanwhile RAM prices are in the toilet.

Let's be realistic. The beating heart of this device? It's cutting edge- not bleed you dry. As I would expect from Nintendo.
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Yup it's actually quite well balanced and efficient. It fits with Nintendo's hardware goals except this time it's paying off massively with efficiency gains (node, DLSS, CPU).
 
tgtCG said:
Heres an analysis of the 3080 against a very similarly performant (in rasterization) GPU from AMD, and explaining how much more performant Nvidia's ray tracing architecture is than AMD when removed from the bottlenecks of the rest of rendering



It isn't that Nintendo is magically out-performing the ray tracing of some higher end machine. Its that, in my opinion, the PS5 and Series X were never equipped to perform in ray tracing to begin with. That alone doesnt necessarily explain the gap, but add in the performance gains of DLSS, and yeah, the idea the Switch could output more rays in the time that a Series X or PS5 does isnt surprising at all. Not guaranteed, but not surprising either. Its also just a good explainer on how the ray tracing architecture is implemented in the first place.
Click to expand...

Correct, back when developers were asked what they wanted for the successors to the PS4 and the Xbox One, they said NVME SSDs and better CPUs. Raytracing was an afterthought and something they didn't personally ask for, but it runs regardless.
 
Giancarlo said:
Matrix demo with Ray-Tracing equal or better then current gen consoles? this seen too farfect to be true, Nintendo doing a powerful console, i have doubt, Nintendo has stopped doing powerful console(GC was the last), no way a console such as this exist, without a horrible battery and a prohibitive price
Click to expand...

The last powerful console is the Switch. If the Switch doesn’t exist and Sony released a successor to the Vita that can trounce the PS3 mind would be blown. What would you considered a prohibitive price? Is $500 like all the other consoles prohibitive?
 
YolkFolk said:
You lot have no shame.

For months you were saying 2023 and if anyone thinks differently (i.e 2024) then they're wrong.

When it becomes clear 2023 is just not happening then you switch and celebrate being 'right' for 2024.

You genuinely mocked me two months ago for saying 2024 hahaha

All good fun. :)
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This is all fun and speculation!!! Most important is that Nintendo will satisfy us with a good piece of hardware and fantastic software 🙌🏼🙌🏼
 
YolkFolk said:
Keep in mind that when the Switch was released in March 2017, the NX was 'leaked' months prior in July 2016 and we basically knew what the system design was going to be.

www.eurogamer.net

Nintendo NX is a portable console with detachable controllers

Nintendo's upcoming NX will be a portable, handheld console with detachable controllers, a number of sources have confi…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

In 2023, we're close to mid September and we still don't have a similar style of leak yet.

Is this because the launch is further out than March 2024 and developers don't have finalised development kits yet?
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Well, I understand your point but not every new hardware has to follow the same pattern for pre-release leaks. This time, the form factor is pretty much known, so it isn't a topic of so much interest for the leaks. However, the SoC was leaked, the amount of RAM was presumably leaked, the tech demos that Nintenfo showed to developers were leaked...It's not like we don't have anything substantial right now.
 
korok said:
For God's sake, Gamecube wasn't the last powerful hardware from Nintendo. It was Switch. It was a powerful mobile hardware which left a lot of people impressioned. At times the talk about Switch power feels like revisionism.
Click to expand...
Technically, it was a powerful mobile hardware made with a chip they took from the bargain bin of powerful mobile chips at Nvidia's garage sale.

But it was still impressive. I agree
 
Lancelot said:
Correct, back when developers were asked what they wanted for the successors to the PS4 and the Xbox One, they said NVME SSDs and better CPUs. Raytracing was an afterthought and something they didn't personally ask for, but it runs regardless.
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Yup. And the end result has been we get reflections at best, which I feel earnestly adds little to most games, and for a while made people misunderstand what ray tracing was, what it adds, and made them feel it was pointless. I do honestly wonder how much compute would have been gained if they hadnt added the limited RT hardware they did add, I guess not much based on what I know about AMD hardware. But also, well, there really wouldnt be that much lost. With DLSS (again, ultra performance mode is just waiting there) and Nvidia's architecture, I do wonder if RT Global Illumination on console will be come a reality, I really hope it does. (and my pipe dream of fully ray traced "current" Switch games)
 
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Dark Cloud said:
Don’t read Era on this topic today. They’re so pathetic. “This can never happen”. So much negative responses
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As expected there is a lot of insecurity going on over there from people from people that spent trashing/trolling most Nintendo related threads because of Switch hardware.

Next year could be rough for some of them.

lexony said:
I mean a March release would align with the rumor that Nintendo is "trying" to get this to be out sooner than later.
Though connecting such things is dangerous. Dangerously Speculative Muhahaha.
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I dont see them dropping TotK, Wonder and new hardware in the same FY.
I can see an April/May launch appening though.


March would be really aggressive.
 
Bait02 said:
Technically, it was a powerful mobile hardware made with a chip they took from the bargain bin of powerful mobile chips at Nvidia's garage sale.

But it was still impressive. I agree
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From my understanding Nintendo decided on the Tegra X1 in 2015, when it wouldn't have been in the bargain bin by then.
 
Cuzizkool said:
So, with all these leaks, nothing yet on a “gimmick”. Could this be just a more powerful Switch?
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Hopefully! If anything gets added it'll probably be better motion controls or capacitive buttons, like extra cameras, or touch surfaces on the shoulder buttons.
 
For people who want Dragon Ball Comparisons, this is my visual representation and no context

  • OG Switch vs any Next Gen Console
    • 6f0a555c80dbd0aac5040b7736efed835df29c65_00.gif
  • Switch 2 vs PS5 when comparing a scene using Ray Tracing and Upscaling
    • dragon-ball-z-battle-of-gods.gif
 
carbvan said:
For a 2017 tablet, it was pretty nuts. The only reason why it's not so highly praised anymore is because we're 7 years since launch lmao
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I remember all the "Even with downgrades Doom 2016 can't run on Switch", "Dragon Quest XI is announced for Switch? It must be an upres port of the 3DS version!", "The Witcher III is impossible on Switch" and so on.
 
cw_sasuke said:
As expected there is a lot of insecurity going on over there from people from people that spent trashing/trolling most Nintendo related threads because of Switch hardware.

Next year could be rough for some of them.


I dont see them dropping TotK, Wonder and new hardware in the same FY.
I can see an April/May launch appening though.


March would be really aggressive.
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Don‘t get me wrong, I can‘t imagine this FY either. Even from a consumer perspective it feels like too much. I stay with Summer 2024.
 
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