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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
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Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
10/11 GB RAM dedicated to games, is a massive jump for Switch that dedicate 3GB RAM for games
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
There's also 'dynamic DLSS', added in 2020.
Quick searching shows only a few games supporting this though, presumably because of how dynamic res is implemented in PC games.
On Switch however, where dynamic res is common? Oh boy.
I'd be really curious to see how well this could work in a console environment and how they could tweak it to reduce the costs of upscaling between distant resolutions.
Alovon11
Like Like
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Indeed, especially as it can let them be far more fexible.
We already sort of see this with UE-TSR in Fortnite where it hovers between two ranges usually but always outputs 4K.
A dev could set a resolution cap internally if they really wanted to make sure the GPU doesn't go overbudget for too long for example (So like, 720p-1440p internally at a 4K output)
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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I doubt many games (even including the highly intensive Monolith Soft games) will use dynamic upscaling like the Switch 1 games did, however I do think this is another huge boon for the system.
Give it 6 years when Monolith Soft makes Xenoblade 4 and they'll singlehandedly snap the system in half somehow. At that time they'll use Dynamic DLSS effectively and still look great somehow.
PedroNavajas
Boo
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- He, him
If I were Nintendo, I would really push for 16GB.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Maybe this is pessimistic of me, but the idea of a next gen Splatoon 3, or even 4, using DRS with DLSS, keeping a rock solid framerate the whole time by allowing the internal resolution to fall all the way to 720p in TV mode. That's really the dream with this kind of technology.
pelusilla6
Bob-omb
What tweet?
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Think of things this way instead:
DLSS Super Resolution (for Upscaling the 2.x that gets updated)
DLSS Frame Generation (interpolation of Frames or 3)
DLSS Ray Reconstruction (the 3.5 one)
Sol
Moblin
I'm trying to catch up on all this news and am confused on the chronology of events regarding DLSS claims.
- VGC initially published article claiming the Switch 2 was doing DLSS 3.5 with the Matix UE5 demo
- Retracted the 3.5 part and just mentioned DLSS
- So we then all assume that it was really just DLSS 2.2 since it's (presumably) an Ampere based GPU
- Now Universo Nintendo is claiming that the UE5 demo was running using DLSS 3.1.....which is frame gen?
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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- he/him
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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I'm salivating from all this juicy facts. Nintendo games art style are so suitable for the ray tracing. No need to push realism games likes PS5. Just put ray tracing into a Super Mario Odessey 2 for Switch 2 launch title and it's will be selling likes crazy
Just to clarify, the word relative is pretty important there. I'm not saying that the Switch 2 will have crazy ray tracing performance, just that it will have very good RT performance relative to its overall power level (keeping in mind it's running on a tiny fraction of the power draw of something like the PS5). That doesn't mean it's going to match the more powerful consoles in games with RT, just that the heavier the use of RT is, the smaller the gap.
One thing I will say is that I honestly kind of expect Nintendo to make more use of RT in first party games than either Sony or MS currently do, just because it's cheaper (in terms of performance) for them to do so. For any given ray traced effect in a game, developers have to weigh up whether the performance cost is worth it compared to the non-RT alternative (and the RT version is almost always slower). So moving from regular shadows to RT shadows has some performance cost associated with it, so does moving from SSR to RT reflections, or from non-RT GI to RT GI, etc. On Switch 2, the relative extra cost of moving to a ray traced effect is going to be lower than it is on PS5 or Series X, because it has much better RT capabilities.
As an example, (with 100% hypothetical numbers to illustrate my point) let's say on PS5 the non-RT version of an effect takes 1ms, but the RT version takes 3ms. On Switch 2, let's say it takes 3ms to run the non-RT version, but 4.5ms to run the RT version of the effect. The Switch 2 is slower in both cases, and adding RT still runs slower than the effect without RT, but it's much easier to justify a 50% increase in cost compared to a 200% increase in cost. When a Switch developer asks themselves "how big is the impact of going with the RT approach here?" they're going to see a lower percentage impact than when a PS5 developer asks themselves the same question in pretty much every single case.
Now that doesn't mean they'll always use RT, as it's still going to be slower than non-RT approaches in almost all cases, and they still have a limited amount of time to render a frame. I'm sure there will be Nintendo-developed games with no RT. There are just going to be more cases where that extra X% cost for going with the ray traced version of something is worth it.
PedroNavajas
Boo
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TLZ
Like Like
Yes yes. Should've said it earlier heh.
Game freak
Omg 11 new pages....
LiC
Member
It is just a version number. The main problem is "DLSS" meaning two things. Nowadays, Nvidia primarily uses it marketing to refer to the entire "DLSS SDK" or DLSS suite of gaming tech, which includes the AI upscaler, frame generation, and the new ray tracing thing. And the 3.x is referring to the latest version of the toolset including all those things. However DLSS actually stands for "deep learning super sampling," which is specifically the AI upscaler part. When people say a game has DLSS or uses DLSS, they still mostly (although maybe not always these days) mean the upscaling thing. But if they say it has DLSS 3, that means it for sure has the upscaling, and also has access to the frame gen, or if it has DLSS 3.5, it has access to the ray reconstruction, although it may not be using those unless specified. Whereas prior to DLSS 3, people usually strictly talked about DLSS 2.1 or 2.3 or whatever to mean the latest update to improve the AI upscaler.
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SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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Happens all the time.
"Ridley is too big for Smash" is the funniest comment in retrospect and that was a creative-decision.
D
Deleted member 645
Guest
I’m ready for legit info.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
The goalposts will be moved to 'it's not even Series S power'.
for Splatoon 4, people just want better netcode and tick rate
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Or 'the T239 chip was old tech at release'
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P4bl0
Project Oz H2 2024
That's accurate
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I wonder how a Mario game with RT would looks like. Or just how will the next Mario game look on a more powerful hardware. They can have AA, better resolution, textures, lighting, but they can’t really go too far on a Mario game in terms of details and shit. Readability has become kind of a big problem on current-gen games, and the last place where you want this kind of issues is in a Mario game.Nintendo, gimme 3D Mario with RT please
PedroNavajas
Boo
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I would not be surprised if Nintendo did the math and found out that using hall effect sticks is more cost effective than another massive wave of guarantee claims.
John Omaha
Moblin
That's honestly pretty good. They could make it even simpler:
Nintendo Switch Second
- Another way of clearly saying "Switch 2"
- Not your typical numbered naming convention
- Works well in several languages
MadMechanic
Yee diddly
And then they 'forget' that the tech behind Xbox series X/S and PS5 are older than T239
PedroNavajas
Boo
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- He, him
"The iPhone 15 has higher (theoretical) performance!"
John Omaha
Moblin
A good way to trojan horse DLSS into more PC games as well.
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
- Pronouns
- He
I'm pretty sure Nintendo profited off of the bad joysticks
Vanillalite
Bob-omb
Hell the fact that just a year or two ago we were debating if we could even hit PS4 like numbers or if it would closer to 1TF let alone what we seem to be getting which is beyond what last gen (non pro) consoles were doing is a total win.
People will still shit on it though. Everything is cap or slap to the bros these days, and too many people out here just rooting for it to be cap. Meanwhile I’m just out here enjoy games and experiencing of the of the best video game years in the history of our hobby.
Haters stay losing.
TheSentry
Piranha Plant
Highly interesting and suspicious that Nvidia revealed the Ray Restoration (DLSS 3.5) at the same event and same week as their partner Nintendo showed off their new mobile hardware with an impressive raytracing demo.
It wouldn’t surprise me what so ever if Nintendo did show off ray restoration on the NG Switch or at the very least Nvidia shared with Nintendo that they’d be able to do it on the NG Switch and maybe shared that info with developers.
I don’t know, I’m just willing to bet DLSS 3.5 got mentioned in some of those behind the scenes meetings after Nvidia announced it.
It wouldn’t surprise me what so ever if Nintendo did show off ray restoration on the NG Switch or at the very least Nvidia shared with Nintendo that they’d be able to do it on the NG Switch and maybe shared that info with developers.
I don’t know, I’m just willing to bet DLSS 3.5 got mentioned in some of those behind the scenes meetings after Nvidia announced it.
TLZ
Like Like
Well, it could be running just the same on Switch 2. It's still comforting of course. And being released in 2024 should mean newer/more modern hardware than Steam's, which should help more.
I quite like that, and I almost never like anything other than "Switch 2". Easy to go Third or Fourth (or Forth!) later. It's very self explanatory, and anyone who wants to call it "Switch 2" can because it's very interchangeable.
I should put my updated post there, but I don't think this Steam Deck video is even running lumen. once you go lower than high settings, Lumen is turned off, which most people do to squeeze out more performance from the Steam Deck. so the Drake demo is absolutely running better than this by virtue of having lumen on
The following info is extremely vague, and only fit for entertainment purposes. If vaguebooking frustrates you, feel free to skip.
Short version: On Tuesday buyer uncle encountered a leak that shookt him. His cryptic tweets seem to be related to either Nintendo or Sony’s console models. The timing led him to suspect an announcement at the Tokyo Game Show.
Long version: At 1:04 PM on Sep. 5th (Japan time), buyer uncle posted the following tweet.
23 minutes later he posted an update:
55 more minutes passed and he tweeted:
My interpretation is that buyer uncle saw something regarding a certain console model on his wholesale ordering system. The info was so surprising that he immediately questioned its confidentiality. Lo and behold the info was hastily fixed (modified or deleted? unclear) in the system, causing buncle to suspect that it wasn’t a simple mistake. His last tweet seems to suggest it being a Nintendo or Sony product. Possibly due to the timing, he speculated that the info may be revealed at the Tokyo Game Show.
Personally I believe that it’s too early to see the Switch NG in the wholesale system. A few potential explanations include a new PS5 revision, end-of-life for Switch v2, or permanent price cut for a Nintendo/Sony model. There’s not enough to go on, but fun to chew on.
Short version: On Tuesday buyer uncle encountered a leak that shookt him. His cryptic tweets seem to be related to either Nintendo or Sony’s console models. The timing led him to suspect an announcement at the Tokyo Game Show.
Long version: At 1:04 PM on Sep. 5th (Japan time), buyer uncle posted the following tweet.
Based on his past tweeting pattern (example), I think that “某〇〇” mean “某機種” (certain console model). If so, the tweet can be translated to: “A surprising disclosure regarding a certain console model. Confidentiality?”
23 minutes later he posted an update:
“It has been corrected, hastily. This is peculiar.”
55 more minutes passed and he tweeted:
“〇－ムショウ” is obviously “ゲームショウ” (Tokyo Game Show), and “〇〇〇” is likely either “任天堂” (Nintendo) or “ソニー” (Sony). The translation would be: “That thing was corrected, but one would notice before [Nintendo or Sony fixed it]. Perhaps they’ll announce it at the Tokyo Game Show. I don’t know.”
My interpretation is that buyer uncle saw something regarding a certain console model on his wholesale ordering system. The info was so surprising that he immediately questioned its confidentiality. Lo and behold the info was hastily fixed (modified or deleted? unclear) in the system, causing buncle to suspect that it wasn’t a simple mistake. His last tweet seems to suggest it being a Nintendo or Sony product. Possibly due to the timing, he speculated that the info may be revealed at the Tokyo Game Show.
Personally I believe that it’s too early to see the Switch NG in the wholesale system. A few potential explanations include a new PS5 revision, end-of-life for Switch v2, or permanent price cut for a Nintendo/Sony model. There’s not enough to go on, but fun to chew on.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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That's more a matter of design and formfactor than capabilities. Splatoon 3 actually has pretty good netcode, with my point of comparison being Halo (MCC and Infinite) and Forza Horizon 5 on Xbox, it has to keep a track of far more things and does so more accurately. It uses relays, fallbacks, virtual hosts, NAT bypass, just about everything it can, and runs it all through Google Cloud. The low tickrate is what makes it work at all in low network quality environments. Like say, on a handheld. Like I get it, better is better, and it should be better, but I think the complaints about Splatoon 3 networking are overblown. Do people even remember 2? Splatoon 2 WIRED was worse than Splatoon 1 over WiFi.
Plus, they could improve networking for 3 with updates, and have already done so. Dare I say I have confidence in the Splatoon dev team!
LinkURL
Bob-omb
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I'm sure otherwise.
I don't know about other countries, but in Brazil the support for drift repair is very good, and most of the time they don't even repair it, they send you an entirely new joy-con.
I'm pretty sure they didn't. They definitely took a lot of heat from it, and it's mostly because the low profile joysticks seem like they get drift a bit faster than the full profile sticks used in the pro controller and the xbox/ps joysticks.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Yeah, initial supply chain cost estimations put the manufacturing cost of Joy-Con ABOVE retail price. If they were making any profit at ALL from selling Joy-Con, it was minimal. Joy-Con have never been a profit driver, and really they can't be. You basically HAVE to sell TWO units per player, people only want to pay the price of one controller for them, but each device costs as much or even more than a standard controller to manufacture because they contain MORE complexity than say, the standard Xbox controller, EACH.
The stick drift problem isn't one Nintendo is eager to repeat, I'm sure. It damaged their image, it reduced engagement and worst of all, it hit them where it hurt, in their wallet, with their free repairs programs.
robertman2
Chain Chomp
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I miss that era of Smash shitposting tbh
D
Deleted member 5146
Guest
And bots - matches automatically ending because a player disconnects with no AI fill isn't acceptable, hopefully something to be fixed with whatever network changes or online overhauls will come with the NG
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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- She/Her
$399.99/€399.99/£399.99
Is it a little brave to suggest they'll unify prices so drastically? Maybe, but it slooowly took place in Europe due to currency fluctuations, and the Pound is... well. Weakening. You know how many Euro cents I get from a CREDIT UNION for a pound? 93! That's LESS than one to one, and for profit banks offer even worse rates. The pound is in a position right now where it's... almost valuable, but it's becoming harder to spend as it gets withdrawn as a reserve currency and is used less and less in international trade. Almost as if they left a huge international trading bloc or something, huh. Point is, Euro strengthening, Pound weakening, we could see the first Nintendo launch with a unified price across Europe and the US, and I think that's a single SKU (well, not counting possible controller colours), $399.99 offering.
OLED drops to $299.99 to make room in the market.
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