StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[Concernt]

Not if the new cards are that much cheaper.

If they're that much cheaper and can at least theoretically be compatible, we could see the technology go the other direction, with the new cards' flash technology attached to a Nintendo Switch (Gen 1) game card once it's available, unless the way it's read is drastically different.

 

[Bonejack]

Honest question:

I’m of the opinion that Nintendo will release the Switch 2 during 2H of 2024, but, the fact they’re releasing a Mario Red OLED, and now once again the MK8D Switch V2 bundle, makes me think they want to ship as many units as they can before something big comes close next year. As close as March, April 2024. I know it could just be a case of maximization of sales and wanting to empty out supply chain and store shelves, but is it possible for the Switch Next Gen to come out early next year?

My uninformed opinion:

Wether ReDraketed is H1 or H2 2024 somewhat depends on the next Direct.

Personally, i expect MP 4 to be the last "big" Switch release after Mario Bros Wonder. If that game is featured in the Direct, likely with a H1 2024 release date, then i think (in my uninformed mind) that Switch 2 will be H1 too.

Every Nintendo game releasing in 2024 might also have a cross-gen release for it. MP 4 definitely, since that could very well be called a "tech showcase".

 

[Giancarlo]

Honest question:

I’m of the opinion that Nintendo will release the Switch 2 during 2H of 2024, but, the fact they’re releasing a Mario Red OLED, and now once again the MK8D Switch V2 bundle, makes me think they want to ship as many units as they can before something big comes close next year. As close as March, April 2024. I know it could just be a case of maximization of sales and wanting to empty out supply chain and store shelves, but is it possible for the Switch Next Gen to come out early next year?

Nintendo always did hardware bundles for the holiday season, this dont not hint, Nintendo want to clear inventory for it next hardware

 

[Concernt]

Honest question:

I’m of the opinion that Nintendo will release the Switch 2 during 2H of 2024, but, the fact they’re releasing a Mario Red OLED, and now once again the MK8D Switch V2 bundle, makes me think they want to ship as many units as they can before something big comes close next year. As close as March, April 2024. I know it could just be a case of maximization of sales and wanting to empty out supply chain and store shelves, but is it possible for the Switch Next Gen to come out early next year?

To me, at present, it seems more likely to come out early next year than late. As it stands, supply chain and industry analysts seem to be speculating, and some outright claiming, the first or second quarter of 2024. Meanwhile, the SOC has been ready for over a year at this point. Unless there's a serious stumble in software production, I doubt it would be pushed into late 2024. Additionally, most Nintendo handhelds typically release early in the year. There's a bunch of reasons for this. They're popular gifts around Golden Week in Japan, exam results season worldwide, popular items during tax return season in the USA, and just plain historical precedence.

I'm not holding my breath for a 2023 release, at least not anymore, but I do think a reveal this year is fairly likely.

 

[Hosermess]

Nintendo always did hardware bundles for the holiday season, this dont not hint, Nintendo want to clear inventory for it next hardware

7 weeks before Black Friday? (Nov 24th). Seems a little early. But yeah, still not a big hint either way.

 

[Z0m3le]

A binned Xbox One S APU was briefly available, with the GPU disabled. And of course, folks have installed Linux on Switches. So while both machines are overclocked, we can directly compare them

Switch vs Xbox One S: The Switch outperforms in single threading so handily, that it is likely that for most tasks, even at base clocks, it outperforms last gen. And as for multithreading, while the 8 cores of the Jaguar get ahead, they don't double the performance. Last gen games were dominated by single threaded code, this is an ideal scenario from a game's perspective.

Similarly, the PS5 APU is available to purchase with the GPU disabled, and while we don't have Switch NG, we do have Orin NX, which is a similar configuration of similar cores. Here are the two, back to back, at clock speeds that looks like the real world.

Orin vs PS5: The single threaded score has widened, exactly as you'd expect. But so has the multicore. Now, you might be right. Practically speaking, this extra horsepower might rarely be a barrier to ports. But there isn't a question that the gap is wider than last gen on both fronts.

Is the PS5 CPU generally using 16 threads, the clock is also slightly higher on here than PS5's max clock for the CPU correct? The other issue is does the error correcting play any slow down role on Orin? Or is it a flag that must be enabled? Just general questions.

I think it's also worth noting that at this point, we could actually see higher CPU clocks for Switch 2 with it's 8inch screen and that the CPU could end up doing less work than the PS5's CPU because of differences to the architectures here. It's in line with my estimations of 2/3rds the CPU performance, I'm just trying to figure out exactly how the known specs for PS5 are generally used to more accurately speculate, since in general, whenever there is an opportunity, I try to learn whatever I can.

 

[Salah Kalajo]

A thing I've been trying to communicate for a while, this seems like a good moment.

Stop trying to compare the Switch NG's power to other consoles, you will make yourself dizzy.

Gamers like to power rank things, tech nerds like to compare technologies, it's all understandable. And for the most part, they're not wrong! If you weren't busy being a fanwanker, you could pretty easily see at launch that the PS4 was going to be a better console, graphically, than the Xbox One. But here is the dirty secret - that's because, within a generation, GPUs are basically the same design.

The N64, the GameCube, the Wii, the Wii - all had GPU's designed by the same team. You know what other GPUs they designed? The Xbox 360, the PS4, the Xbox One, the PS5, the Xbox Series - in the 21st century, the same team has designed every GPU in every major console, save 3.

Is it surprising that these devices have been easy to compare? But it's not just that, Nvidia and AMD heavily influence each other on their designs. The GPU in the Switch shares a lot in common with the GPU in the PS4, despite them coming from different companies.

Nvidia has changed the game. DLSS and RT both fundamentally alter how pixels get to screen. And while AMD has answers for both technologies it hasn't built the hardware around them. When we talk about raw power we're no longer talking about what Nvidia is actually bringing to the table.

On the other hand, trying to talk about Nvidia's new tech is difficult, because folks still want to cram it into the same box as the raw power. We get things like "effective FLOPS" or Nvidia's own "RT FLOPS" which are nonsensical.

Because Nvidia has changed the way pixels get on the screen, you can get huge leaps in some places, and tiny leaps - or even back steps - in others. If you try to take Nvidia's new tech, and the say it turns the Switch 2 into a PS4 Pro you are both wildly overselling and underselling what the thing can do at the same time. A motorcycle is not a freight truck is not a sports car, and trying to whittle it all down to a MPH number is missing the plot.

This is why I talk about the experiences you'll get instead of the console's power.

While i Respect and Agree with most of what you says but Referring to the Similarities between all the GPU Architecture in the market and give an Example of Switch and PS4 then compare Switch 2 and PS4 Pro to a "Freight truck vs Motorcycle vs Sport Car" was not Accurate ...

i Do Think while there are many differences in Architectures and Feature set between T239 and PS5 GPU but not to the point to make them Truck vs Sport Car , they are much more similar than this and Fundamentally can do the exact same thing "i don't mean Power" in a little different ways ..

 

[Individualised]

Fundamentally can do the exact same thing in a little different ways ..

Just like a truck and a sports car fundamentally do the same thing. I think you might be taking the analogy too literally.

 

[Deleted member 887]

so from my dumb understanding, it's best to "stop" comparing the hardware (based on what we know so far at least) to any other hardware on the market and instead think on how well a multiplat game would work there? (be it previous gen game [PS4 & XONE] or a current gen game [PS5 & XSX])

Basically. I'm saying that Switch NG is different enough in how it works, that there isn't one comparison that can tell you the whole story.

Since like, 2005, there has really only been two measures for how "good" a machine could get, graphically.

• How fast could that GPU execute shading operations?
• How big could textures get, ie: how much memory is there?

Every console cycle there are folks who try to point to this or that Cool New Feature of their Favorite Console, and why it Makes Them Better Than The Numbers. And it almost never matters, because for the last 20 years or so, all GPUs have worked basically the same.

That makes console comparisons easy. If a system is "as powerful as an Xbox One" then you expect all Xbox One games to be able to look basically the same. And if it isn't then you expect cuts to most games. It's very simple.

But modern systems has two new measures of graphic power.

• How good is it at reconstruction? (DLSS/FSR)
• How good is it at ray-tracing?

And unlike past consoles where the Cool New Feature mostly turned out to not matter*, these two things are actually really important. Games are already making heavy use of them! Nvidia has custom hardware for both these things, AMD (mostly**) does not. That means the Switch NG, when compared to other consoles, will be much better at some of these metrics and much worse at others.

Trying to collapse it all down to one comparison point is misleading, especially to the people who are most likely to need a simple comparison. On the other hand, there are really detailed takes that might be accurate, but don't tell non-tech folk what they want to know which is: what will my games look like? Which is why I try to answer it like this:

This is a true next-gen upgrade for Nintendo games. Expect games that look good on a 4k TV. Expect advanced lighting. Expect high quality anti-aliasing.

This is a true upgrade over base last-gen systems. Switch NG is more powerful than the PS4 on every single metric, even the obscure ones. Last gen ports should be golden

This is not a Pro device - this is a different kind of 4K machine. If you want the resolution bumps that the last gen Pro consoles got, NG can get you there - but it requires new engineering work. Don't expect every studio to do that work, and don't expect pixel-identical results.

This is not a Series S - but it is a modern console. That means all the bells and whistles - faster storage, big RAM pools, RT hardware - are going to be there. There will be some games which can take really good advantage of NG's strengths, and may run better on NG - at least with the help of a loving port. There will be other games where a port is a nigh-impossible nightmare. Expect a whole bunch of "passable but uglier" ports, and expect their number to get smaller over the course of the generation.

* at least for Graphics.

** Without getting too deep in the weeds, AMD reuses some pre-existing parts of the GPU to do ray-tracing. So while it has "ray tracing hardware" it's not dedicated hardware. A bunk bed doubles your number of sleeping places, but it doesn't double your number of bedrooms.

 

[necrolipe]

This is a personal opinion but, I feel weird to see bundles being announced and released so soon before holidays
Even considering Mario Wonder launch, they've already announced the OLED themed to sell along

In comparison, last year MK8 Deluxe bundle was announced two weeks before Black Friday (in November) and for this year, the press release states that all bundles will be available "while quantities last" — maybe they don't even be available anymore on Black Friday this year tbh

To me, this is a "let's clear our stock before this year ends" scenario

 

[Bonejack]

This is a personal opinion but, I feel weird to see bundles being announced and released so soon before holidays
Even considering Mario Wonder launch, they've already announced the OLED themed to sell along

In comparison, last year MK8 Deluxe bundle was announced two weeks before Black Friday (in November) and for this year, the press release states that all bundles will be available "while quantities last" — maybe they don't even be available anymore on Black Friday this year tbh

To me, this is a "let's clear our stock before this year ends" scenario

Well, i have lots of time in January, bring on the announcement event Nintendo! ;D

 

[Skittzo]

Well, i have lots of time in January, bring on the announcement event Nintendo! ;D

It'll be October 20th, just like last time.

They're gonna follow the Switch playbook to the letter, no room for error!

 

[SoldierDelta]

This is a personal opinion but, I feel weird to see bundles being announced and released so soon before holidays
Even considering Mario Wonder launch, they've already announced the OLED themed to sell along

In comparison, last year MK8 Deluxe bundle was announced two weeks before Black Friday (in November) and for this year, the press release states that all bundles will be available "while quantities last" — maybe they don't even be available anymore on Black Friday this year tbh

To me, this is a "let's clear our stock before this year ends" scenario

I'm not an insider, but the second I saw those announcements I heard loud sirens that said "Wait, this is way too fucking early for this..."

Going by past record, they introduced bundles just a smidge before Black Friday (as you said) as a nice enticing deal. There's no reason to announce these bundles this early unless, say, you're planning on getting some last minute buys before you announce a new piece of kit.

So basically I'm saying a NEW PIECE OF LABO KIT BABE, FIRST SYSTEM TO SELL ONE CARDBILLION COPIES WOOOOOOO-!

 

[LiC]

Worth nothing that the Animal Crossing Lites are the first new color/edition for the Lite since BDSP in November 2021. The MK8D bundle on its own isn't indicative of anything, as they've done the same thing for a few years, but given the above I think it's pretty obvious they're trying to clear out stock.

Of course, regardless of when the new hardware launches next year, this would be the Switch's last holiday. The earlier-than-usual announcement/release of these models, compared to coming just before Black Friday in prior years, may not mean anything either, but we'll see.

 

[Bonejack]

It'll be October 20th, just like last time.

They're gonna follow the Switch playbook to the letter, no room for error!

Dunno man, i wouldn't launch with BotW in 2024 when TotK exists. ;D

 

[SoldierDelta]

It'll be October 20th, just like last time.

They're gonna follow the Switch playbook to the letter, no room for error!

I decided to run the numbers and the week of October 23rd makes the most sense. Let the initial sales of the funky Mario game set in and then announce your brand new funky system.

Granted I could be very wrong with this because Nintendo might want to have more sales with Mario Wonder before announcing the system. Idk, regardless the Q1 2024 dream isn't dead yet.

 

[BlueKing]

This is a personal opinion but, I feel weird to see bundles being announced and released so soon before holidays
Even considering Mario Wonder launch, they've already announced the OLED themed to sell along

In comparison, last year MK8 Deluxe bundle was announced two weeks before Black Friday (in November) and for this year, the press release states that all bundles will be available "while quantities last" — maybe they don't even be available anymore on Black Friday this year tbh

To me, this is a "let's clear our stock before this year ends" scenario

I would say the holiday season this year has been badly affect by the inflation and cost of living crisis. The company I work for already has Christmas merchandise for sale and is getting all our stock weeks earlier than normal.

Also, new backplate designs on both Lite systems does not scream "let's clear our stock before this year ends" you dont make new parts for stock clearance.

 

[Giancarlo]

This is a personal opinion but, I feel weird to see bundles being announced and released so soon before holidays
Even considering Mario Wonder launch, they've already announced the OLED themed to sell along

In comparison, last year MK8 Deluxe bundle was announced two weeks before Black Friday (in November) and for this year, the press release states that all bundles will be available "while quantities last" — maybe they don't even be available anymore on Black Friday this year tbh

To me, this is a "let's clear our stock before this year ends" scenario

this is to reach the 15 milions consoles target Nintendo need to reach

 

[Dekuman]

Just like a truck and a sports car fundamentally do the same thing. I think you might be taking the analogy too literally.

I think you are trying to line up the expected power gap into the vehicle space and you have the right idea.

Honestly the different consoles are more like comparing Sedan to a mini van to a SUV to a pickup.

A motorcycle is mostly (in the west) recreational and not very functional as other types of vehicles. This is why the other poster disagreed

 

[LiC]

Also, new backplate designs on both Lite systems does not scream "let's clear our stock before this year ends" you dont make new parts for stock clearance.

Stock doesn't mean only finished units, of which the shell is one of the least expensive parts, but the stock (or more accurately capacity/allocation) of Switch Lite motherboards, screens, and other components.

 

[Foltzie]

While i Respect and Agree with most of what you says but Referring to the Similarities between all the GPU Architecture in the market and give an Example of Switch and PS4 then compare Switch 2 and PS4 Pro to a "Freight truck vs Motorcycle vs Sport Car" was not Accurate ...

i Do Think while there are many differences in Architectures and Feature set between T239 and PS5 GPU but not to the point to make them Truck vs Sport Car , they are much more similar than this and Fundamentally can do the exact same thing "i don't mean Power" in a little different ways ..

Ehh, unless your post is satire I think you and @oldpuck are saying the same thing.

Using the vehicle simile/metaphor is more reference to their power in terms of watts and thermals. The Switch as a mobile platform has to do more with less, whereas the PS/Xbox lines can brute force some things.

The underlying point is also that due to dwindling returns on fabrication improvements (Moore's Law), means that at least for now, graphical and other improvements themselves will be primarily architectural/software driven rather than just driven by more transistors for example via DLSS & FSR.

I am curious if there will be something like Grand Central Dispatch in future game engines to help with CPU bottlenecks where additional cores are available. (note, fully willing to find out that there is something already in Unreal, but my basic Google failed me).

 

[The Competition]

I decided to run the numbers and the week of October 23rd makes the most sense. Let the initial sales of the funky Mario game set in and then announce your brand new funky system.

Granted I could be very wrong with this because Nintendo might want to have more sales with Mario Wonder before announcing the system. Idk, regardless the Q1 2024 dream isn't dead yet.

I feel like the Q1 2024 dream has almost been killed by the January Nintendo Live that was recently announced.
I know some people here would say it makes no difference, but I think it at least kills the possibility of a Q1 release.

I feel like if we asked Kit and Krysta, they'd say something like:
'Nintendo wouldn't put so much resource into an event like that, especially with such a focus on old games, if they're releasing a new generation within the next two months. Nintendo will want all consumer and staff focus to be on the new console if theyre revealing it in January and launching by the end of March'
If anyone is on their Patreon, it might be an interesting question to pose to them

I feel like that event is among the final marketing push for Switch 1, try to sell a few more systems in this fiscal year, then in late Feb or March or April, NG Switch announcement for a summer release.

 

[eye0h]

They've announced enough fkn special editions and bundles in the last week to make my eye start twitching

 

[BlueKing]

Stock doesn't mean only finished units, of which the shell is one of the least expensive parts, but the stock (or more accurately capacity/allocation) of Switch Lite motherboards, screens, and other components.

Hard disagree, especially when the console is being bundled with a free $60 game.

 

[SoldierDelta]

I feel like the Q1 2024 dream has almost been killed by the January Nintendo Live that was recently announced.
I know some people here would say it makes no difference, but I think it at least kills the possibility of a Q1 release.

I feel like if we asked Kit and Krysta, they'd say something like:
'Nintendo wouldn't put so much resource into an event like that, especially with such a focus on old games, if they're releasing a new generation within the next two months. Nintendo will want all consumer and staff focus to be on the new console if theyre revealing it in January and launching by the end of March'
If anyone is on their Patreon, it might be an interesting question to pose to them

I feel like that event is among the final marketing push for Switch 1, try to sell a few more systems in this fiscal year, then in late Feb or March or April, NG Switch announcement for a summer release.

I mean... hmm.
So I discussed it a bit elsewhere and generally came to the conclusion that a April-May launch is very possible. Idk, Nintendo could play this in any way they want and could probably make a very fine dime.

I also went on a general crack theory rant (also elsewhere) after basically 4 hours of sleep on a hot summer's day, so maybe I'm not in the best state of mind to talk about these things, idgaf I'm tired.

 

[LiC]

Hard disagree, especially when the console is being bundled with a free $60 game.

I'm not sure what argument you're making here. The bundled game is there to make it sell more units, obviously. You and I just disagree on why Nintendo is interested in trying to sell lots of Lite units this October (when it's their smallest segment and they haven't bothered with any kind of edition for it in almost two years).

 

[The Competition]

I mean... hmm.
So I discussed it a bit elsewhere and generally came to the conclusion that a April-May launch is very possible. Idk, Nintendo could play this in any way they want and could probably make a very fine dime.

I also went on a general crack theory rant (also elsewhere) after basically 4 hours of sleep on a hot summer's day, so maybe I'm not in the best state of mind to talk about these things, idgaf I'm tired.

I totally agree April - May is possible I was just saying I don't think Jan - March are (though I hope I'm wrong!)

 

[Giancarlo]

the septembre Direct/first 2024 Direct, will be determinant if Switch sucessor actually launch in 2024 or later, a lot of new anouncements: Switch sucessor in 2025/2026, few new anouncements: Switch sucessor actually in 2024

 

[SoldierDelta]

I totally agree April - May is possible I was just saying I don't think Jan - March are (though I hope I'm wrong!)

Okay then, best rephrase it.

I am SoldierDelta, the number 1 Q2 2024 believer.

 

[Deleted member 5146]

This is a personal opinion but, I feel weird to see bundles being announced and released so soon before holidays
Even considering Mario Wonder launch, they've already announced the OLED themed to sell along

In comparison, last year MK8 Deluxe bundle was announced two weeks before Black Friday (in November) and for this year, the press release states that all bundles will be available "while quantities last" — maybe they don't even be available anymore on Black Friday this year tbh

To me, this is a "let's clear our stock before this year ends" scenario

To add to this, where I live (Ireland) the Switch is noticeably becoming less visible in Game, HMV, Smyths, Curry's shelves and even on the Argos site as the breaks between restocks are becoming longer and longer while the European sales figures aren't on the rise, additionally many Switch titles on the online retailers here are now being sold at a discount with the 'Special offer' tag - as little as 10% to 20% off for the flagships to as much as 65% off for the smaller titles in addition to an ongoing 2-for-1 special sale through Argos

This only began recently, maybe a month or two ago

 

[Deleted member 887]

I am curious if there will be something like Grand Central Dispatch in future game engines to help with CPU bottlenecks where additional cores are available. (note, fully willing to find out that there is something already in Unreal, but my basic Google failed me).

The problem with threadpools - and work stealing which is my personal favorite solution to this problem - is you need to be able to schedule work without dependencies. One of the reasons that multi-threading in games is so bad is because it's difficult to parallelize, and it tends to be per-game rather than per-engine.

Unreal uses implicit multithreading by splitting the render thread from the sound thread from the loading thread. Explicit multithreading is directly creating a worker and assigning a task to it, and the worker goes away when the task completes (under the hood there is some thread reuse, so that you're not paying the cost of creating and tearing down new threads all the time).

 

[Stefan51278]

Switch NG is more powerful than the PS4 on every single metric, even the obscure ones. Last gen ports should be golden

In my humble opinion Switch NG won't achieve the memory bandwidth of a Vanilla PS4.

 

[Concernt]

This is a personal opinion but, I feel weird to see bundles being announced and released so soon before holidays
Even considering Mario Wonder launch, they've already announced the OLED themed to sell along

In comparison, last year MK8 Deluxe bundle was announced two weeks before Black Friday (in November) and for this year, the press release states that all bundles will be available "while quantities last" — maybe they don't even be available anymore on Black Friday this year tbh

To me, this is a "let's clear our stock before this year ends" scenario

While I think the Lite will stick around in some capacity, given this isn't a special edition V2, this COULD be the nail in the coffin for the V2.

While stocks last. Of what. Digital codes they can infinitely reproduce?

Maybe this is the last V2s. Maybe this is the last run of Nintendo Switch consoles that aren't OLED, Lite or Gen 2.

 

[TheSentry]

It'll be October 20th, just like last time.

They're gonna follow the Switch playbook to the letter, no room for error!

I personally don’t think they’ll say a word about a NG Switch until after Christmas.

Why follow the same playbook when they’re in a completely different situation in 2023 than they were in Oct. 2016?

The WiiU was a failure and not selling, where as the Switch is still selling well for a console in its 6th year and has a huge new Super Mario game coming out.

 

[Concernt]

To add to this, where I live (Ireland) the Switch is noticeably becoming less visible in Game, HMV, Smyths, Curry's shelves and even on the Argos site as the breaks between restocks are becoming longer and longer while the European sales figures aren't on the rise, additionally many Switch titles on the online retailers here are now being sold at a discount with the 'Special offer' tag - as little as 10% to 20% off for the flagships to as much as 65% off for the smaller titles in addition to an ongoing 2-for-1 special sale through Argos

This only began recently, maybe a month or two ago

Wait, Argos is still in Ireland?

Wait.

HMS is still in Ireland?

Wait.

GAME IS STILL IN IRELAND?

D'ya mean "the six counties" or do you mean the country that is named Ireland? I only have Smyth's, Curry's, and sometimes Harvey Norman for physical retailers. Tesco sometimes does them, but you'd have more luck in Tesco Extra.

Side note: it comes to my attention, and I find it amusing, that Ireland's major chains aren't even brands, they're just the founder's surname. More things change the more they stay the same.

 

[LiC]

I feel like the Q1 2024 dream has almost been killed by the January Nintendo Live that was recently announced.
I know some people here would say it makes no difference, but I think it at least kills the possibility of a Q1 release.

I feel like if we asked Kit and Krysta, they'd say something like:
'Nintendo wouldn't put so much resource into an event like that, especially with such a focus on old games, if they're releasing a new generation within the next two months. Nintendo will want all consumer and staff focus to be on the new console if theyre revealing it in January and launching by the end of March'
If anyone is on their Patreon, it might be an interesting question to pose to them

I feel like that event is among the final marketing push for Switch 1, try to sell a few more systems in this fiscal year, then in late Feb or March or April, NG Switch announcement for a summer release.

If it's launching in March or April, it's being announced this year.

I disagree about Nintendo Live but it's kind of pointless to debate. We can just wait a couple months and see if hardware gets announced. Then we'll know if it's coming early 2024 or not.

 

[Deleted member 887]

In my humble opinion Switch NG won't achieve the memory bandwidth of a Vanilla PS4.

I stand corrected. You are right, that the memory bandwidth won't match. Not an issue, but you are correct it's a difference.

 

[Giancarlo]

It'll be October 20th, just like last time.

They're gonna follow the Switch playbook to the letter, no room for error!

i higly doubt that, Switch anouncement was a completely different situation, Wii U was a flop and Nintendo did care if that impacted Wii U holiday sales(the console was pratically dead), Switch is different, the console still selling well, revealing it sucessor now, would destroy it holiday sales

 

[Deleted member 5146]

Wait, Argos is still in Ireland?

Wait.

HMS is still in Ireland?

Wait.

GAME IS STILL IN IRELAND?

D'ya mean "the six counties" or do you mean the country that is named Ireland? I only have Smyth's, Curry's, and sometimes Harvey Norman for physical retailers. Tesco sometimes does them, but you'd have more luck in Tesco Extra.

Side note: it comes to my attention, and I find it amusing, that Ireland's major chains aren't even brands, they're just the founder's surname. More things change the more they stay the same.

Tá cónaí orm i dTír Eoghain ach caithim go leor ama i nDún na nGall, i nGaillimh agus i mBaile Átha Cliath! Níl Argos ach ag oibriú sa Tuaisceart faoi láthair, 's osclaíodh HMV nua i mBÁC cúpla mí ó shin - ní dheachaigh mé ansin go fóill!

HMV opens first store in Dublin in a decade | BreakingNews.ie

HMV are set to open a new store on Henry Street on Friday.

www.breakingnews.ie

nóta: Féach ar na cluichí atá á ndíol acu ar lacáiste

https://www.argos.co.uk/browse/technology/video-games-and-consoles/nintendo-switch/nintendo-switch-games/c:30292/

 

[The Competition]

I come from an HPC background myself. A lot of what I've picked up is just by osmosis, I haven't found a great text on modern rasterization. The best book by far on the subject is The Black Book, which is 26 years old at this point, and describes how the Quake engine works, but is extremely low level and unconnected to modern hardware.

Jason L. McKesson's Learning Modern 3D Graphics Programming is highly fixated on OpenGL which is hardly modern anymore in a DX12/Vulkan world, but can bring up up to speed on the unified shader model that the Xbox 360 created, and all GPUs since are based on. If anyone else has some better texts on modern GPU designs, I'd love to see them.



I think you're right that diminishing returns are real. But we also say that every generation, and we're stepping into a totally different rendering paradigm with ray tracing. And the other console manufacturers have an incentive to create experiences that play best on their machines, and to create machines that play games best. That financial dynamic will drive games to take advantage of the hardware available to them.

But that's what I picked the CPU out as the limiting factor. Graphics scale, but CPU logic doesn't Geralt fights an enemy, that enemies AI is the same whether it's 1080p or 4k.

Late follow up to this.
First of all thanks for the graphics reading list!

Secondly, a question about CPU. Do we know if there were other more powerful CPU options that could have been used at the cost of fewer resources elsewhere e.g. weaker or lower clocked GPU or something? If it had to be this way, i.e. this is obviously, undoubtedly the best balance of components for x, y, z reasons, then ok, i have nothing else to say
But if it didn't have to be this way, and its not clear why more CPU resource wasn't traded for less resource elsewhere, then perhaps this choice was specifically made because the collective data from Nvidia and partner developers about real games, ultimately concluded that most games aren't going to be CPU bottlenecked beyond the selected NG CPU's capabilities? We've now seen that Starfield runs on Steam Deck even (which is only marginally faster CPU wise than NG right?) so perhaps it's the case that realistically, games are getting prettier, but most aren't getting that much more demanding on the CPU?

Maybe we already have data on this that disproves this theory, I don't follow game tech analysis that much, so I don't know, I'm just saying purely based off my eyes looking at video games, it seems like game logic isn't getting drastically more demanding is it? Even some games that I imagine would stand above others in terms of CPU demand seem to be older games like World War Z most notably, which does run on the original Switch! And maybe GTA with better than normal physics and vehicle destruction processing, yet both of those were present strongly in the PS3 era version, GTA IV.
Of course, I know the CPU is doing more in modern games that isn't obvious to me, e.g. you mentioned newer animation techniques right? But hopefully the NG's CPU will be enough for those.

 

[The Competition]

If it's launching in March or April, it's being announced this year.

I disagree about Nintendo Live but it's kind of pointless to debate. We can just wait a couple months and see if hardware gets announced. Then we'll know if it's coming early 2024 or not.

You might be right, but I don't yet see the reason that the system has to be announced this year if it releases in April.

 

[LemonLime]

I really don't think it should even still be up to debate at this point if this next console is even going to be mentioned this year. It just isn't happening.
Nintendo has a strong lineup of games and DLC to sell for this holiday season and will want the attention of consumers to be solely focused on that.

Besides, the only reason the Switch was initially revealed in the way that it was is due to the failure of the Wii U. They were eager to move on from the quickly, which prompted a fall reveal with a winter release date. They didn't have to worry about affecting sales of the Wii U hardware and software because as far as Nintendo was concerned, those sales were nonexistent.

The Switch is still selling very strong, and I'm sure Nintendo wants to maximize the number of units sold units before they even think about revealing this next console. Sure, sales are starting to decline a little bit, but I don't think anyone really expected both software and hardware to still be selling as well as they are. This is pretty unheard of for Nintendo.

It is also worth considering that if Nintendo is just now starting to show developers the hardware and features, to me that says that this thing is still a bit of a ways off. I'm thinking the second half of 2024 at the absolute earliest.

 

[necrolipe]

the septembre Direct/first 2024 Direct, will be determinant if Switch sucessor actually launch in 2024 or later, a lot of new anouncements: Switch sucessor in 2025/2026, few new anouncements: Switch sucessor actually in 2024

The quantity of announcements means ultimately NOTHING for a Switch NG
With or without launch, the actual console will keep receiving games for a bare minimum of two calendar years after 2023

 

[Concernt]

Tá cónaí orm i dTír Eoghain ach caithim go leor ama i nDún na nGaill, i nGaillimh agus i mBaile Átha Cliath! Níl Argos ach ag oibriú sa Tuaisceart faoi láthair, 's osclaíodh HMV nua i mBÁC cúpla mí ó shin - ní dheachaigh mé ansin go fóill!

HMV opens first store in Dublin in a decade | BreakingNews.ie

HMV are set to open a new store on Henry Street on Friday.

www.breakingnews.ie

It bugs me that there's a genuine geopolitical difference between "Tuaisceart" with a capital T and "tuaisceart" with a lower-case t, but THAT is a pretty political arena for a console discussion thread.

Ceart go leor.

I'll probably be getting my NG Switch at Smyth's, that or store.nintendo.ie.

 

[Concernt]

It just isn't happening.

That's an awfully definitive statement. I think it's quite likely to happen, really. As as been explored here countless times, the end of year lineup for Nintendo Switch focusses strongly on the lowest rung, the truly out there casuals, the latest of late adopters. That's just not the same audience that a new console appeals to, or would be marketed towards. They wouldn't really take away from each other. If anything all this marketing for games backwards compatible, or even enhanced for NG Switch, could benefit it. Furthermore, part of the upcoming lineup is Scarlet and Violet DLC that leaked with someone who got everything else right claiming that it's going to be alongside a next gen patch.

The waters are anything but clear right now. They're pretty muddy. Nothing is certain.

 

[Deleted member 5146]

It bugs me that there's a genuine geopolitical difference between "Tuaisceart" with a capital T and "tuaisceart" with a lower-case t, but THAT is a pretty political arena for a console discussion thread.

Ceart go leor.

I'll probably be getting my NG Switch at Smyth's, that or store.nintendo.ie.

Only for the next couple decades ná bí buartha faoi sin

Might just do the same!

 

[Deleted member 5146]

I really don't think it should even still be up to debate at this point if this next console is even going to be mentioned this year. It just isn't happening.
Nintendo has a strong lineup of games and DLC to sell for this holiday season and will want the attention of consumers to be solely focused on that.

Besides, the only reason the Switch was initially revealed in the way that it was is due to the failure of the Wii U. They were eager to move on from the quickly, which prompted a fall reveal with a winter release date. They didn't have to worry about affecting sales of the Wii U hardware and software because as far as Nintendo was concerned, those sales were nonexistent.

The Switch is still selling very strong, and I'm sure Nintendo wants to maximize the number of units sold units before they even think about revealing this next console. Sure, sales are starting to decline a little bit, but I don't think anyone really expected both software and hardware to still be selling as well as they are. This is pretty unheard of for Nintendo.

It is also worth considering that if Nintendo is just now starting to show developers the hardware and features, to me that says that this thing is still a bit of a ways off. I'm thinking the second half of 2024 at the absolute earliest.

A couple of points to be considered here are that many of the Switch's components are no longer even in production including (I think) the Tegra X1 SoC which was supposedly discontinued last year, meaning Nintendo can only produce with whatever component stockpiles they're currently holding onto which is a finite and ever diminishing supply - also worth mentioning if you check VGchartz you can see the Switch got a big boost in sales in all its markets from Zelda throughout May but is now stagnating while being propped up by a disproportionate amount of Japanese buyers vs. European and North American buyers

Not to mention the economic crisis worldwide that is painting a very bleak Christmas picture for many, the only way Nintendo will realistically get ahead of this is with a significant price drop and a significant price drop would be in itself a sign of the Switch's end times

So far there's only a couple of known big Switch hitters left; Metroid Prime 4 which Nintendo have insisted is to be a Switch release, and the Wind Waker/Twilight Princess HD ports which insiders have been stating for the last year or longer are ready but being held onto for the right time

So if this next Direct closes off with MP4 and WW/TP HD, it effectively means the Switch showcase era is over and whatever is planned to be shown from February onwards will be for something else entirely

 

[Deleted member 887]

Late follow up to this.
First of all thanks for the graphics reading list!

Secondly, a question about CPU. Do we know if there were other more powerful CPU options that could have been used at the cost of fewer resources elsewhere e.g. weaker or lower clocked GPU or something?

The CPU we're 90% certain is in the chip (A78C) was probably the most powerful ARM CPU available at the time.

There was at least one other option (X1), possibly two (A710) - but in both cases it's likely it was a performance-per-watt situation. While the maximum performance for each was potentially higher, the performance available for the amount of electricity Nintendo was willing to spend was lower.

If it had to be this way, i.e. this is obviously, undoubtedly the best balance of components for x, y, z reasons, then ok, i have nothing else to say
But if it didn't have to be this way, and its not clear why more CPU resource wasn't traded for less resource elsewhere, then perhaps this choice was specifically made because the collective data from Nvidia and partner developers about real games, ultimately concluded that most games aren't going to be CPU bottlenecked beyond the selected NG CPU's capabilities? We've now seen that Starfield runs on Steam Deck even (which is only marginally faster CPU wise than NG right?) so perhaps it's the case that realistically, games are getting prettier, but most aren't getting that much more demanding on the CPU?

I think you're right that CPU was the place to compromise. And looking at currently released games, I think NG is going to be fine. It's really a question of what the market is going to do going forward.

There are two things that might cause the market to shift to driving CPUs harder. The first is just UE5 - those games are just starting to come out, and UE4 isn't built to drive modern CPUs hard. It's technically multithreaded, but just barely. Pull up any analysis tool on a PC, and you'll see lots of cores/threads sitting idle.

The second is that while there is a huge power gap in the GPU between Series S, PS5, Series X, and the likely PS5 Pro - there isn't a huge CPU gap between them. The PS4 and the Series S are both 4 TFLOP AMD machines - but the Series S has a massive CPU upgrade. So current gen developers don't need to think about CPU scaling in the way that they need to think of GPU scaling, while the CPU provides a path to do some things "last gen couldn't do".

Maybe this plays out so the CPU doesn't actually bottleneck anything that is likely to come to NG anyway. This is me prognosticating a little bit.

Maybe we already have data on this that disproves this theory, I don't follow game tech analysis that much, so I don't know, I'm just saying purely based off my eyes looking at video games, it seems like game logic isn't getting drastically more demanding is it? Even some games that I imagine would stand above others in terms of CPU demand seem to be older games like World War Z most notably, which does run on the original Switch! And maybe GTA with better than normal physics and vehicle destruction processing, yet both of those were present strongly in the PS3 era version, GTA IV.
Of course, I know the CPU is doing more in modern games that isn't obvious to me, e.g. you mentioned newer animation techniques right? But hopefully the NG's CPU will be enough for those.

When you think CPU limited, think physics complexity, yeah, but also think of "objects on screen"

 

[PandaAndino]

I saw that grid was the new trend:

 

[ILikeFeet]

motorcycle is not a freight truck is not a sports car, and trying to whittle it all down to a MPH number is missing the plot.

red bull is reading this thread, I see