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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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MP! said:
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It was easier in photoshop haha
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tysm!
 


Not sure if anyone has posted but this video is interesting for the SD card storage topic. Not the biggest tech head but if storage on the next console is fast and it's backwards compatible, I will definitely be careful to compartmentalise my games and optimise these damn load times lol.

TLZ said:
I don't believe any of this. This sounds like an expensive system. Nintendo likes more accessible $.
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I'm pretty sure the point is that flash memory is cheap and an LCD screen are meant to save money, so you're in agreement :) . I also think common consensus (in this thread) for the new system is that it's gonna be like $399
 
eye0h said:
I'm pretty sure the point is that flash memory is cheap and an LCD screen are meant to save money, so you're in agreement :) . I also think common consensus (in this thread) for the new system is that it's gonna be like $399
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Is 512gb flash memory cheap? I've no idea.
 
TLZ said:
Is 512gb flash memory cheap? I've no idea.
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Way cheaper now than a few years ago is the idea. Nate also said that he heard 512gb was the ceiling not that it was fact. Could be 256gb, could be 128gb. But that isn't really enough for modern games so I think Nintendo would adopt more fast storage since running games off an SD card can be a considerably worse experience.
 
Innolux offers a miniLED BLU display which they market on their website as below:

Innolux first demonstrated TFT driven active matrix(AM) circuits to drive the miniLED backlight, called "AM miniLED''. This technology can confront OLED's disadvantages including burn-in issues, poor sunlight readability and shorter lifetime. Innolux's AM miniLED not only can be used for any panel sizes but also can realize greater than 5k local dimming zones . The more zones in a backlight, the more precisely illumination can be controlled to enhanced picture quality and show the amazing shadow details. In addition, since the AM miniLED backlight reduces the flashing lights trigger user's eyes, it makes people feel more comfortable. Innolux's AM miniLED can used in TV, automotive monitor displays, gaming monitor, tablet and laptop with high dynamic range (HDR) technology.
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Hmmm. This development is interesting to say the least.
 
tommorow fiscal earning for Nintendo is gonna be very intereting, i wonder if Switch would already surpassed DS sales or the successor codiname
 
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DariliumA said:
Innolux offers a miniLED BLU display which they market on their website as below:



Hmmm. This development is interesting to say the least.
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Price comparison vs OLED and modern LCD? I want a reason to hope for MiniLED as a compromise but I don’t see a ton of adoption. Makes me wonder if it’s at all cheaper at this stage
 
oldpuck said:
Not with anything resembling the current Switch power draw, certainly, which I think isn't just a battery life limit, but heat as well.


Totally different tech. Short version - 3D NAND would make bigger cartridges cheaper and faster. NAND has 3 problems that the current tech does not have. It doesn't have as long a shelf life (usually NAND is rated for like 5 years), it is easily rewritable, and it doesn't have built in DRM.

One of the reasons NAND isn't rated for long is because it can be written too. So if Nintendo builds in some kind of chip that blocks rewrites, and implements DRM (along with decrypt on console, presumably), they might get the shelf life back as well.
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Thanks!
 
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karmitt said:
Price comparison vs OLED and modern LCD? I want a reason to hope for MiniLED as a compromise but I don’t see a ton of adoption. Makes me wonder if it’s at all cheaper at this stage
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I don't keep up much in terms of display technology but MiniLED Is a more expensive technology usually than OLED and wouldn't be a "compromise"
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
your optimism is rather concerning
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I mean technically any game could run on Switch if a dev really wants that. In this case for sure not a 1:1 port but if someone puts enough money and time in it I‘m sure in its core elements even RDR2 is possible on Switch.
 
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karmitt said:
Price comparison vs OLED and modern LCD? I want a reason to hope for MiniLED as a compromise but I don’t see a ton of adoption. Makes me wonder if it’s at all cheaper at this stage
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Kazuyamishima said:
I don't keep up much in terms of display technology but MiniLED Is a more expensive technology usually than OLED and wouldn't be a "compromise"
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A quick search yields this analysis from ArsTechnica: ‘OLED PC monitors and TVs remain pricier than Mini LED alternatives, but economies of scale mean OLED laptop panels are cheaper to source and come in a better variety than Mini LED screens.´
 
It would be pretty amazing if this new LCD screen for Switch NG is laminated like the screens on iPads. Removing all that scattered light in the air gap of a non-laminated display makes a huge difference to the quality of the image.
 
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Kazuyamishima said:
I don't keep up much in terms of display technology but MiniLED Is a more expensive technology usually than OLED and wouldn't be a "compromise"
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MiniLED is a compromise on many fronts. MicroLED might be what you’re thinking or, but Mini does not have per-pixel dimming.

My only reference point for price is the TV market where MiniLED’s positioning is kind of broken. Samsung in 2022** pitched it as more premium than their QDOLED line, but the image just isn’t as good. Also reviews worse than Sony/LG OLEDs, perhaps with the exception of brightness. Anyway, the TV market is dealing with totally different sizing, so not really relevant.

** Just checked things as of 2023 and the latest Samsung "OLED" (QD-OLED) seems to be positioned as a better product than their "NeoQLED" (MiniLED) equivalent.

DariliumA said:
A quick search yields this analysis from ArsTechnica: ‘OLED PC monitors and TVs remain pricier than Mini LED alternatives, but economies of scale mean OLED laptop panels are cheaper to source and come in a better variety than Mini LED screens.´
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This is exactly what I was considering around this. Doesn't mean the situation can't change.
 
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Sol said:
It would be pretty amazing if this new LCD screen for Switch NG is laminated like the screens on iPads. Removing all that scattered light in the air gap of a non-laminated display makes a huge different to the quality of the image.
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OLED Model is laminated, and yes, it's nice!
 
oldpuck said:
Tricky question to answer with just public data. The earliest production date on a "final" devkit is (I believe) July of 2016. By November of 2016, Nintendo was making devkits in batches of thousands. Worth noting that Nintendo was really trying for an October 2016 release, and had to delay for software, not hardware, related reasons.



I'm very excited for the lurking group of material physicists Nintendo fans to finally start contributing to this thread ;) For me, I'll wait till someone actually confirms SC.
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(Quick question). Danke. And for rephrasing too !
 
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karmitt said:
How much does 7.0” -> 7.9” move the needle on the “no OLED because cost savings” discussion? Does it start to feel a bit more legitimate?
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I dunno what to make of that. I don't have any deep insights into the cost of one tech over the other. The one useful data point I have is that replacement LCDs for the Switch are <$40 and replacement OLED screens at ~$150. Assuming those rough price differences hold industry wide (and they might not), at least the short term cost savings, even with a significant screen bump, are real. But that's one datapoint.

Samsung basically dominates the OLED market, and own most of the patents, still don't put OLED screens on anything but their premium tablets, the S series. Apple still puts LCD on the iPad mini (though that's due for a refresh which might bring it up to OLED).

1080p at 7.9 inches is 278 PPI. If this were an Android tablet, it would be a very good Android tablet. Of course most Android tablets suck, so there is that.
 
I'm a little bit scared that, with the possibility of 512GB (edit: and 3D NAND/higher capacity catridges), it might mean that Nintendo's approach to fast load times might be using that technique that basically duplicates assets to make them load faster (I think CoD uses it) and the storage type might just be a faster-than average SD Card.
 
oldpuck said:
I dunno what to make of that. I don't have any deep insights into the cost of one tech over the other. The one useful data point I have is that replacement LCDs for the Switch are <$40 and replacement OLED screens at ~$150. Assuming those rough price differences hold industry wide (and they might not), at least the short term cost savings, even with a significant screen bump, are real. But that's one datapoint.

Samsung basically dominates the OLED market, and own most of the patents, still don't put OLED screens on anything but their premium tablets, the S series. Apple still puts LCD on the iPad mini (though that's due for a refresh which might bring it up to OLED).

1080p at 7.9 inches is 278 PPI. If this were an Android tablet, it would be a very good Android tablet. Of course most Android tablets suck, so there is that.
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FYI I mostly throw what I think are pertinent questions in here and see what sticks. I don't really contribute answers, but the thread is collectively smart and/or knowledgeable in countless areas so there's usually something interesting to be said.

I was just thinking that OLEDs are probably only affordable (ie. due to economies of scale) at a specific size. While OLED seems abundant in phones, phones aren't 8". So then we're stepping into the tablet space, and as you're pointing out, it's not a given. While Nintendo was willing to afford a 7" OLED screen, it might actually be a substantial cost jump to reach 8".
 
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justanotherperson said:
I'm a little bit scared that, with the possibility of 512GB (edit: and 3D NAND/higher capacity catridges), it might mean that Nintendo's approach to fast load times might be using that technique that basically duplicates assets to make them load faster (I think CoD uses it) and the storage type might just be a faster-than average SD Card.
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Nah, it wouldn't be enough. 512GB won't all be available to games. I assume 400~GB for games, after you factor in OS, filesystem. So it can hold maybe 8 50GB games, which wouldn't be unreasonable

If it works like Switch, your video recordings/screenshots and other junk also gets saved there so that's probably another several GB unavailable.

I know for a fact the Warframe devs (Panic Button/Digital Extremes) routinely remaster their game to be around 17-20GB so someone picking up a brand new Switch can immediately download warframe without needing to go out a get a microSD.

It's basically that idea but with enough space for a few more downloads. I am very certain 3rd parties told Nintendo they need that space for straight downloads as well as DLC and other content even for physical people. And realistically, Nate is aying 512GB is the top end. That could well be what the dev kits have with the retail release getting less. Maybe only 256.
 
As much as I'd love it be 8" since I was craving this since OG Switch, I'll keep my expectations in check as to not get disappointed, and just believe 8" and 1080p is for devkits that usually are larger than retail units.
 
Since the device will likely be larger in area, the NSW docks will be incompatible. Therefore, there is potential to also make the device thicker. That would be great for easier cooling solutions and greater batteries. Looking forward to hearing about RAM and possibly tensor cores from actual sources outside of the NV leak.
 
TLZ said:
I don't believe any of this. This sounds like an expensive system. Nintendo likes more accessible $.
It's either a 2nd, more expensive sku, which I still don't believe, or some fantasy based on wanting something as good, or even better than the Steam Deck.
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The storage is obviously not super cheap, but we're talking about as much storage size as the PS4, for a device whose performance is about that of a PS4. If game installs are also about the same size as a PS4, Nintendo may not have much of a choice.

But I believe Nate phrases the 512GB storage as a ceiling. Which could easily be "what they're sticking in devkits, and not told devs to expect more than" rather than any sort of final number.
TLZ said:
Is this info being confused with PS project Q's 8 incher?
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I'm 100% certain that is not a mistake ZCG would make

bmfrosty said:
With the idea of 3D and for cartridges, what's the chance of including a small ROM or other chip on the cartridge to handle some drm or encryption functions?
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I'd say 75%. The current carts do this. In theory, Nintendo could just use the cart to store encrypted data, and put the decryption keys in the NG itself (using the Tegra Security Module to hide them from hackers). But I think Nintendo would also want to make the NAND unwritable, and that would likely require an ASIC around it anyway.
 
TLZ said:
As much as I'd love it be 8" since I was craving this since OG Switch, I'll keep my expectations in check as to not get disappointed, and just believe 8" and 1080p is for devkits that usually are larger than retail units.
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Not really sure why they'd provide larger screens on dev kits, I'd imagine they'd want developers to have a true to life image if there is even a screen on the devkits. We also don't even know if the 8 inch screen info came from the dev kits to begin with.
 
eye0h said:
Not really sure why they'd provide larger screens on dev kits, I'd imagine they'd want developers to have a true to life image if there is even a screen on the devkits. We also don't even know if the 8 inch screen info came from the dev kits to begin with.
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I don't know as well, but I don't want to have high hopes and be disappointed later 😐
 
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512 internal memory? Nice!. Oh its the speculated maximum, yeah no shit. I hope so, but don't expect it on the cheapest launch model.
8" would be neato. Families may really want a "lite" model then, that's reasonably large. This might imply 1080 handheld res, which might imply DLSS for handheld and not just docked. Lots of ifs, but that would be pretty cool and unexpected for me.
 
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I have a feeling that Nintendo might do multiple SKUs in this one like the PS5 Digital/Disc and the Series S/X (technically different consoles? but you know what i mean). Hopefully a more expensive OLED version, but i do think it's more likely for them to go the 256GB/512GB route for this.

Or, in a better example, how Sony did with the Vita having a 3G SKU and an OLED one [although i don't think it was ever marketed as an OLED version, they just put it on one of their revisions)
 
I'm worried about how Nintendo might pull off a larger screen. While I love the Steam Deck, I have to admit that it can feel large, awkward and heavy. After a while, holding the Deck causes numbness in the hands. With the next console's screen being up to an inch larger, would Nintendo sacrifice portability? A lite model might make a lot of sense if the console ends up wider than a Deck or an OLED with Hori split pads.
 
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