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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)




On the subject of Spain, there are also other sources (in the case of elanalistadebits, a reputable source) that seem to also know information about the development kit.

Thank you for this!

They're the next best thing to Digital Foundry, so I trust them to not bullshit. The caveats are probably stuff we discussed here already though (cpu differences, storage speed, etc)
DLSS 2 (too) - I am amazed at how many people are able to talk cogently about GPU performance, then totally fall apart when they try to talk about upscaling. It seems like even tech minded folk just don't get how you can have PS4 level power but get a PS4 Pro-esque experience.
 
Thank you for this!


DLSS 2 (too) - I am amazed at how many people are able to talk cogently about GPU performance, then totally fall apart when they try to talk about upscaling. It seems like even tech minded folk just don't get how you can have PS4 level power but get a PS4 Pro-esque experience.

I think for a lot of people it is hard to believe that Nintendo is seemingly going more "safe" rather than gimmicky. Furthermore, everything that has been found what the [REDACTED] can do is maybe hard to believe when you look at Nintendo's past.
 
Unrelated to the last couple posts but cant nintendo go the USB 3 micro approach to their next gen carts? those had an indent so USB 2 micro plugs could still connect but if you had the proper cable it could use all the pins, couldnt that solve the issue if they find that a die shrink to the nand isnt good enough?
 
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Edit. Forget it, I thought it was the original pokemon leaker but it turns out it's another one.
 
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I do not, this looks weirdly low compared to the current Mario Kart though lol

Is this from Mario Kart Arcade GP?
aye. don't recall what engine it's on (the vr game is UE4)



Thank you for this!


DLSS 2 (too) - I am amazed at how many people are able to talk cogently about GPU performance, then totally fall apart when they try to talk about upscaling. It seems like even tech minded folk just don't get how you can have PS4 level power but get a PS4 Pro-esque experience.
I typically don't like to add in DLSS because other systems can use FSR2. we're already starting to see those games target lower resolutions, and Epic's best practice for lumen is to render at 1080p. even with cuts, resolution will take a lot of rendering power
 
aye. don't recall what engine it's on (the vr game is UE4)
Thanks! This looks so busy visually hahaha. Even the VR one doesn't look like a leap over MK8 (Except in lighting) due to character modeling being sub-par. Gosh, MK8 really goes to show what talented artistry can do even on low-end hardware.
 
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Why is this thread (and that tweet) saying "what Kotick said about Switch 2" as if he actually said anything about its capabilities? He didn't. He said that whatever Nintendo's next hardware ends up being, he believes that their previous PS4 baseline means they'll be able to make CoD ports for it without difficulty. That doesn't mean the power is "close to PS4," it means it's at minimum enough to run PS4-level games without extra porting effort.

I thought this thread would have reached this conclusion already but I guess not.

Maybe the power is "close" to PS4, maybe it's lower, maybe it's higher. Nintendo doesn't go around telling people things in terms like this. What they might do is address a publisher or developer's question in terms of "hey, we make PS4 games with enhanced PS5 versions, can we plan on going multiplat with your new hardware aligning to our baseline?" and Nintendo would tell them yes, go for it. And Kotick wouldn't know or care about the technical details (with the e-mail from the court case being an "executive summary"), at most he might think of it in terms of, are we going to be making PS4-like or PS5-like games for this thing, and in that case we all know the answer is obviously closer to PS4. Doesn't mean they have their hands on hardware which he's learned has "close to PS4" power.
 
I don't know what's funnier, you guys trusting someone that's been proven to be incredibly sloppy or downright fraudulent on his comparison videos, or him confirming something Bobby Kotick never said in the first place.
 
Why is this thread (and that tweet) saying "what Kotick said about Switch 2" as if he actually said anything about its capabilities? He didn't. He said that whatever Nintendo's next hardware ends up being, he believes that their previous PS4 baseline means they'll be able to make CoD ports for it without difficulty. That doesn't mean the power is "close to PS4," it means it's at minimum enough to run PS4-level games without extra porting effort.

I thought this thread would have reached this conclusion already but I guess not.

Maybe the power is "close" to PS4, maybe it's lower, maybe it's higher. Nintendo doesn't go around telling people things in terms like this. What they might do is address a publisher or developer's question in terms of "hey, we make PS4 games with enhanced PS5 versions, can we plan on going multiplat with your new hardware aligning to our baseline?" and Nintendo would tell them yes, go for it. And Kotick wouldn't know or care about the technical details (with the e-mail from the court case being an "executive summary"), at most he might think of it in terms of, are we going to be making PS4-like or PS5-like games for this thing, and in that case we all know the answer is obviously closer to PS4. Doesn't mean they have their hands on hardware which he's learned has "close to PS4" power.
Probably because most of the news reports reporting on the emails were misleading. That's one of the reasons I didn't put that in the OP since so far, I couldn't find any reporting from any reputable source that wasn't misleading.
 
@Thraktor sorry to tag you with this, but assuming the next system is launching in H1 2024 at the earliest, what say you of the possibility of LPDDR5X memory with 8533MT for the system, and assuming another tape out happened from the initial H1 2022 tape out, and as a result there was a delay in place that allowed for this. Being 2 years after the initial H1 2022 tape out estimation.

Is it likely at all? Likely in the sense that it should be intertwined?
 
I'm just looking at games like Luigi's Mansion 3, Xenoblade 3, SMRPG remake, Metroid Prime Remastered, even Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom and think to myself "man, if Nintendo has PS4-level fidelity, the rest of the industry is just doomed right?"
I don't even care if Nintendo to pushes the cutting edge with that power lol. They could maintain the same graphical ambition they have now just use the new horsepower to lock every release to 108060 lol. Anything else is bonus in my eyes.
 
I typically don't like to add in DLSS because other systems can use FSR2. we're already starting to see those games target lower resolutions, and Epic's best practice for lumen is to render at 1080p. even with cuts, resolution will take a lot of rendering power
I get that, when talking about current gen and big multiplats. But when people hear "PS4 like performance" their brain says "PS4 games" which becomes "no way they can do 4k lolz". Not "PS4 Pro experiences will be possible with any half decent port."

Or in the opposite direction! "In handheld substantially under performs the PS4, but a combination of lower res screen and/or DLSS means it doesn't matter." People don't like nuance, they just want to rank these things.

FSR2 won't even run on PS4 - Nvidia requires GCN 4+, and GCN sees a massive performance drop per FLOP over RDNA. So while I do think DLSS is much more of a wash against 9th gen consoles, it really matters on that 8th gen comparison.

And yeah - all of this is more nuance than the average gamer processes, so "it's more complicated than that" is a reasonable response
 

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| nuanced enough

 
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remember when people thought Mario Kart on wii U would have looked like this?

800px-rosalina_mkagpdx.jpg


times-cosmo.gif
When people thought it would look... Bad?
 
I don't know what's funnier, you guys trusting someone that's been proven to be incredibly sloppy or downright fraudulent on his comparison videos, or him confirming something Bobby Kotick never said in the first place.
Wouldn't be the first time users wrongly trusted someone lol. I wonder how Polygon is doing.

People are too quick to jump on something that gives them hope especially cause the wait for something new has been rather draining. NX speculation was fun. Bring me back to the days of geolocating a fucking reflection of a tree lmao. #teamreal
 
All leakers screw over their sources. That's why information is leaked and not officially revealed. They're giving us the information corporations don't want us to know.
I mean I think there's a difference between vaguely leaking generalized information, and essentially outing your source given that MS is the only Spanish dev Nintendo works with.
 
Honestly I feel like ray tracing won’t even really big that big of a factor. It’ll be niche even on the X and 5, and even in the PC space it’s just such a performance hog unless you have the top of the top end cards.

I wouldn’t even worry about it on the Switch 2 regardless if it’s good implementation or not.
 
Luigi's Mansion feels like the perfect game to demonstrate raytracing.

  • Fixed camera angles to ease processor load and limit what is raytraced
  • Dynamic lighting and shadows are key to game design and atmosphere, which raytracing can flex
  • General technical showcase

I firmly believe that if there's one Nintendo game that benefits the most from raytracing, it's Luigi's Mansion.

That being said, I want Nintendo to stay away from raytracing and instead focus on 60fps. I would notice 60fps way earlier than raytracing.
 
Luigi's Mansion feels like the perfect game to demonstrate raytracing.

  • Fixed camera angles to ease processor load and limit what is raytraced
  • Dynamic lighting and shadows are key to game design and atmosphere, which raytracing can flex
  • General technical showcase

I firmly believe that if there's one Nintendo game that benefits the most from raytracing, it's Luigi's Mansion.

That being said, I want Nintendo to stay away from raytracing and instead focus on 60fps. I would notice 60fps way earlier than raytracing.
And maybe Mariokart.
 
remember when people thought Mario Kart on wii U would have looked like this?

800px-rosalina_mkagpdx.jpg


times-cosmo.gif
I'm not sure if I ever specifically expected that, but as someone who did not like the look of Mario Kart Wii at all and felt it was a disappointing progression compared to other Wii Nintendo franchise entries, seeing the leap Mario Kart 8 represented shocked me. At the time, I probably did expect something closer to the aesthetic of that screenshot you shared as opposed to the beauty of what we got. With my mindset coming directly off of the Wii, I certainly would not be anticipating Mario Kart to be a graphical showcase for [REDACTED] like I am now.
 
Wouldn't be the first time users wrongly trusted someone lol. I wonder how Polygon is doing.

People are too quick to jump on something that gives them hope especially cause the wait for something new has been rather draining. NX speculation was fun. Bring me back to the days of geolocating a fucking reflection of a tree lmao. #teamreal
Hey, at least the new console is 100% coming next year unless the sun explodes or something. The wait is almost over.
 
Luigi's Mansion feels like the perfect game to demonstrate raytracing.

  • Fixed camera angles to ease processor load and limit what is raytraced
  • Dynamic lighting and shadows are key to game design and atmosphere, which raytracing can flex
  • General technical showcase

I firmly believe that if there's one Nintendo game that benefits the most from raytracing, it's Luigi's Mansion.

That being said, I want Nintendo to stay away from raytracing and instead focus on 60fps. I would notice 60fps way earlier than raytracing.
Nintendo will almost certainly use raytracing in all of their exclusives, if not RTGI in their biggest ones considering RDNA2's poor support can already do that in select titles. Their cartoon styles are literally made for it, the implementations are likely to differ in intentions but it'll 100% be a thing in their overall rendering pipeline.
 
Luigi's Mansion feels like the perfect game to demonstrate raytracing.

  • Fixed camera angles to ease processor load and limit what is raytraced
  • Dynamic lighting and shadows are key to game design and atmosphere, which raytracing can flex
  • General technical showcase

I firmly believe that if there's one Nintendo game that benefits the most from raytracing, it's Luigi's Mansion.

That being said, I want Nintendo to stay away from raytracing and instead focus on 60fps. I would notice 60fps way earlier than raytracing.
I stand by wanting a Fluidity game on Drake where you use water to manipulate light. Take special shapes and become lenses, lay flat on a surface and become a mirror. A 3D space where you manipulate the gravity, and use it to get the light and the water to its goal.
 
why am i making myself believe that they’re gonna give us a foldable screen so we get some dual screen monstrosity. can someone please talk me out of this fallacy.
There'll be a peripheral to attach an original Switch so you can play DS/3DS games as they were meant to be played.
I don't think a foldable screen is a good idea, if a good portion of your audience are kids. ;)

Is this tech kidproof enough?
This recent article comes to mind:
 
Luigi's Mansion feels like the perfect game to demonstrate raytracing.

  • Fixed camera angles to ease processor load and limit what is raytraced
  • Dynamic lighting and shadows are key to game design and atmosphere, which raytracing can flex
  • General technical showcase

I firmly believe that if there's one Nintendo game that benefits the most from raytracing, it's Luigi's Mansion.

That being said, I want Nintendo to stay away from raytracing and instead focus on 60fps. I would notice 60fps way earlier than raytracing.
I think Nintendo can push Next Level Games for next LM to be a 3D game with free camera movement. Switch NG potential HW can make a very pretty/ambitious game and LM3 proved to be a +10 million seller. I think its worthy to give it more budget.

Something like RE4R or Village visual fidelity but more cartoon of course.
 
And maybe Mariokart.
I think any franchise games that are already known to play in 30fps would benefit. Zelda would benefit a lot. DLSS will ease the load on framerate when it comes to RT.

But I agree that a Luigi's Mansion game is a prime example. Hell even ports like LM2 would be interesting.
 
75% Chance 2023
25% Chance 2024
0% Chance 2025

Quick maths, Nintendo is not gonna drag the Switch 1 to death without a successor, let's be serious for a moment, it's a business.
I mean, last year everyone was saying 2023 is guaranteed. Now everyone says 2024 is guaranteed.

Feels like there's no hard evidence pointing to anything specifically, so why do some day next year is likelier than this year or 2025?
 
I think any franchise games that are already known to play in 30fps would benefit. Zelda would benefit a lot. DLSS will ease the load on framerate when it comes to RT.

But I agree that a Luigi's Mansion game is a prime example. Hell even ports like LM2 would be interesting.
But in Zelda they want to utilise the hardware to expand the gameplay in new ways. Even more realistic physics, even more crazy ways you can interact with the world, who knows what they come up with.

MK has changed very little gameplay wise over the history of the series. They can use most of the hardware power for visuals.
 
I mean, last year everyone was saying 2023 is guaranteed. Now everyone says 2024 is guaranteed.

Feels like there's no hard evidence pointing to anything specifically, so why do some day next year is likelier than this year or 2025?

We had all kind of leaks that people don't consider hard evidence and keep doing mental gymnastics around it so at this point the only thing that people will accept will be the Nintendo reveal trailer, because Nintendo won't communicate before that, and it's already impressive that they didn't deny next gen console existence in their shareholders meetings. And the reveal might come this week or the next if the NG is releasing this fall, especially since Studios are starting to get talkative with Dev Kits jumbo

People got traumatized with the Switch Pro and doesn't wanna get hyped, but Nintendo is not gonna keep Switch for more than 7 years without a NG by its side. Especially when there are handhelds and devices coming better than the Switch on the market in terms of power ( Rog Ally, Steam Deck, PS Q)
 
What makes next year any likelier than 2025?
Depends on when the launch titles are ready and how much steam the Switch will have left, the latter being crucial for the transitional period, imo. Frankly, I see no reason to wait that long to release the successor, when things seem to winding down.
 
I would change up those numbers a bit.

0% chance for 2023

95% chance fro 2024

5% chance for 2025

I would have put holiday 2024 higher if they didn't plan on doing a smooth transition from Switch 1 -> Switch 2 and something more aggressive like Wii U -> Switch but from a business point of view (taking in consideration financials and marketing), the best timing for them is this year, 2023 even if they don't have many launch titles, there will still be the huge Switch 1 library ready to be 4K patched
 
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I mean, last year everyone was saying 2023 is guaranteed. Now everyone says 2024 is guaranteed.

Feels like there's no hard evidence pointing to anything specifically, so why do some day next year is likelier than this year or 2025?

Next year is always the year!
 
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