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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Raccoon said:
how does this affect Nintendo?
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Nintendo already has a USB-C charging plug for all of its modern devices, so I don't think it will affect them at all. This was built thinking more of Apple which still pushes their proprietary format in their iPhone and some accessories.
 
Thraktor said:
It does. As pointed out by a couple of people when it launched, it wasn't technically in line with the full specification in certain ways, but this was typical of almost every USB-C product at the time (2017 was pretty early for USB-PD devices), and in my personal experience it's had no issue charging from every USB-PD charger I've used with it. It shouldn't be an issue for any new Switch hardware because (a) the newer USB-PD implementation and hardware should iron out these kinks and (b) there's no chance the EU will take action on a company with relatively minor discrepancies from the technical standard in any case. The legislation is intended to force Apple to use USB-C on their iPhones (which is ironic considering how much Apple were the ones pushing USB-C when it launched), and it will only be enforced if companies release devices with completely different charging connectors from USB-C.
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The main thing is this mandate may require the dock to act differently than it does/did (As they've had many chances to change how the dock handles voltages to make it fully compliant but haven't yet, even when they updated the dock for the OLED)

So if Nintendo doesn't want to refactor that functionality of the dock to make it fully USB-PD Compliant, they would want to release Drake before 2024 for that reason as the mandate only applies to new products releasing 2024 or later (So if Drake releases in 2023, the dock could still be as it is even after the mandate applies as that version of the dock would be released before the mandate)

(Also not to mention that it seems the Switch when docked may only expect the docked voltage so even if a third party dock is USB-PD compliant, that is why they highly recommend using the official AC adapter still, so the non-matching of the USB-PD spec is still on the console itself when docked)
 
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Simba1 said:
IMO thats most likely scenario, year-two after Drake launch we start getting "Drake" revisions, Drake Lite, Drake V2, Drake OLED,
or better said Switch 2 Lite, Switch 2 "something".
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Yeah. I know I beat this drum a lot, but this is exactly what they did with the 3DS/New 3DS, and roughly what they did with the DS/DSi. I think Nintendo would love to offer a new hardware revision every 18-24 months or so.

I don't know if those revisions will exactly parallel the base Switch revisions, of course.

niconiconick64 said:
IMO, 2 things:
1 - I think nintendo needs to reconsider the lite as a tv-capable switch next gen simply because doing so would allow them to:
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It would also drive up the cost. The Lite cuts the STDP2550 DisplayPort controller, the entire USB data controller, and uses a significantly smaller fan/heatsink because it never has to run at docked temps. Not only does this make the device cheaper components wise, but the heat sink and fan contribute to the weight reduction that makes shipping cheaper for Lites at scale. There are significant cost savings in the unibody design and not having to use Joy Con rails, the pulling of TV support is likely just as large a cost savings.
 
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I still think that Nintendo will release a Premium Switch 2 with a 256GB storage and Oled screen.

Later down the line they release both a Lite and none premium Switch 2 with LCD screen and 128GB storage
 
Thraktor said:
It shouldn't be an issue for any new Switch hardware because (a) the newer USB-PD implementation and hardware should iron out these kinks and (b) there's no chance the EU will take action on a company with relatively minor discrepancies from the technical standard in any case.
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Well so far, the OLED model's dock still only supports the fixed source voltage of 15 V (but with the fixed source current increased to 2.6 A), which is a violation of USB PD specifications since the USB PD specifications require that all relevant fixed source voltages be supported, which is 5 V, 9 V, and 15 V for the OLED model's dock.

And the AC adapter, which I believe has been unchanged since the Nintendo Switch first launched in March 2017, only supports the fixed source voltages of 5 V (with the fixed source current of 1.5 A) and 15 V (with the fixed source current of 2.6 A), which is again a violation of USB PD specifications.

Considering that non-compliance with USB PD specifications can cause Nintendo Switch consoles to be bricked, and the EU mentioning that medium-sized devices that support the USB PD standard at up to 100 W being under the EU's purview, I can see the dock's compliance with USB PD specifications potentially being scrutinised by the EU, especially if the EU considers the dock to be a medium-sized device that supports the USB PD standard at up to 100 W.
 
A TV only unit is the way to go for the mid budget unit, assuming the hybrid is more expensive this time around, which it will be.
And don't give me 'oh but that would contradict a 6 year old marketing line', because nobody should give a damn about that.
 
carbonaxiom said:
The marketing behind this device is the thing I most want to know about. The "successor or not" question has probably been the longest-standing mystery since the rumors first began, so when the reveal video for it finally comes out that'll be one of the first things to pay attention to.
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Yea it will be interesting to see how it plays out…but I don’t think there is any mystery when it’s announced and launched. Nintendo will present this model as an optional upgrade model alternative in the Switch family of systems. Like they did the Lite and OLED. It’s for those who want to play Switch games with a graphics performance boost.

They won’t position it any different than that.

What kind of exclusive support it gets and when the other models stop selling and being supported…that will be something we won’t find out for a long while.


The Lite still has enough sales to justify its existence, and the $100 difference is probably a major part behind that. I'm assuming that in a situation where the OLED is $300 and the new Switch is $400, most people would be buying the new one, but there would still be enough people buying the OLED because of that $100 difference. Though of course, an even bigger price difference would work better for this if Nintendo can manage it.
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The only thing that justifies the Lite’s existence right now is its bottom tier price tag. Its system is valued as the cheapest additional model for a household of Switch’s, or a bottom floor entry option for the truly cost conscious consumer.

When we talk about OLED being $300 and Drake being $400, it’s not the same value proposition. You still have the $199 and $250 options below it. The idea is, someone who is spending $300 or over are looking for the best features, everyone else is looking for the best price value. The $300 OLED doesn’t fit either profile.

Another thing to consider is how Nintendo views the differences between the devices. As they themselves say in the financial report explanatory material that came out after the OLED was announced:


Source (quote is from page 12): https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2021/210805_3e.pdf

Even here, just eliminating the OLED would be the easiest way to maintain those differences, but that's assuming the new Switch will just be marketed as an OLED with better internal specs. A more Nintendo-like solution, one focused on preferences and lifestyles, would be some external add-on that comes included with (and only works on) the new device.

I can't imagine what that could be, and it would bring up the question of how much more expensive the new Switch could become because of it, but it would be a very uniquely Nintendo move.
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Right. I don’t see this new model being anything more than the OLED Switch with a Drake SoC inside instead of Tx1+.

I’m willing to be shocked at something more uniquely different than that, but I doubt it.

So therefore, it would essentially replace what option the OLED Switch gave people this last year.
 
Hajeman said:
I'm prefer Sw OLED replacing Sw V2 and reduce the price to $300 because Sw OLED body will be use again for Sw Drake (assuming they will use the same body & only SOC is different). So in a long time it will becomes more cheaper to manufacture.
Sw Drake also will be the most powerful product in the same family ever
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I think this really depends on how many Tx1+ SoC’s they have produced and stored up (or still making?)

They are going to want to have system options that are $100-$300 on the market. I don’t think everything being Drake will allow that.

niconiconick64 said:
What if N replaces both the lite and v2 with a drake-powered new nintendo switch lite* within ~250-275$ and the OLED with a 400$ upgrade?

If a new nintendo switch lite launches with the new nintendo switch OLED* and their designs don't change too much from the original models, assembly lines would be able to shift production easier.
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They won’t want to replace the Lite with a Drake Lite cause that would erase the sub $200 system option.

This also depends on how many LCD screens they have produced (still manufacturing?)

In the end, there is no good reason to get rid of the Lite/v2 hybrid model for awhile until they can get OLED Drake systems manufactured and sold at ~$179 without losing money on it.


Simba1 said:
IMO thats most likely scenario, year-two after Drake launch we start getting "Drake" revisions, Drake Lite, Drake V2, Drake OLED,
or better said Switch 2 Lite, Switch 2 "something".

Sooner or later Nintendo will want all Switch consoles to be with same chip (in this case T239).
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I’m betting it’s later than sooner.

It doesn’t prohibit their software development to have their games run on both Mariko and Drake, so no rush?

Stinky Horse said:
A TV only unit is the way to go for the mid budget unit, assuming the hybrid is more expensive this time around, which it will be.
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A tv only model with a mobile Drake SoC inside? What’s the value in that? You aren’t saving that much money not having an OLED screen to make it worthwhile to consumers to choose over the hybrid. Won’t happen.
 
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Switch TV still works with 'anywhere' if they market the ability to seamlessly play your existing games and save files on the TV, emphasizing the family of devices that play the same titles. Someone could buy a Lite and TV and have a pseudo hybrid experience.

Yes, I'm obviously stretching the meaning of that slogan. I still kind of want a Switch TV as a cheap cute little set top box for Mario Kart and Ring Fit. Sue me.
 
20221004_150205z0c6i.jpg


I want a Switch 2 Mario game that looks as gorgeous as this. 😛
 
Simba1 said:
I think that every new Switch model will be only with OLED screen, IPS screen will not be used any more.
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I think the opposite. But this made me wonder about what is the cost difference between an LCD nintendo would use today VS oled. Does anyone have an estimate of the price difference?
 
Serif said:
I still kind of want a Switch TV as a cheap cute little set top box
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I wanted a mini GameCube lol
But they probably would keep the same board design (which makes sense), then it would be more like the shield TV. But that would be ok for me.

One thing I would have to get used is that there wouldn't be a battery anymore. I'm used to never closing the game I'm playing, and I rarely bother saving it. But without a battery, if there's a power outage I'm f*ed lol (and where a live it [unfortunately] happens a lot)

I would love it having a battery, but only as a secondary power source to be activated if needed, retaining RAM's content until primary power source is back). But that is a very specific need... I doubt most people would care for that (I should pay for a secondary battery solution myself)
 
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Serif said:
Switch TV still works with 'anywhere' if they market the ability to seamlessly play your existing games and save files on the TV, emphasizing the family of devices that play the same titles. Someone could buy a Lite and TV and have a pseudo hybrid experience.

Yes, I'm obviously stretching the meaning of that slogan. I still kind of want a Switch TV as a cheap cute little set top box for Mario Kart and Ring Fit. Sue me.
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Me too but with DLSS inside Drake there’s no longer a need for this as it would have been clocks that would have been able to be higher inside a larger case with better cooling enabling higher resolutions. DLSS obviously negates a lot of that need considering they’re going to have 2+tflops when docked even before DLSS.

An HDMI dongle is far more likely now unfortunately.
 
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Hermii said:
what are the odds they announce a game tie in, in this direct? Non zero?
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I think we've demonstrated ourselves to not exactly be masters of the Nintendo marketing predictions in this thread :D

But if I had to put money on it, I'd say pretty close to zero. Much like the Lego Movie, they want to tap nostalgia hard, while not smelling like "a 2 hour long ad".
 
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Kevin said:
20221004_150205z0c6i.jpg


I want a Switch 2 Mario game that looks as gorgeous as this. 😛
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I’m by no means an expert but that doesn’t look like industry leading CGI to me. I would expect a big budget 3D Mario on Drake could get close to those visuals at least at a glance.

Super Mario Odyssey looks ridiculous at 4k on PC as it is and it was built targeting a sub 200gflop GPU lol.
 
Stinky Horse said:
No the 'anytime, anywhere' one. Switch Lite already killed the idea that it needs to support hybrid play.
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Stinky Horse said:
And you're hung up on an ancient marketing line which was my point. They can brainwash people with a new phrase whenever they like!
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Your explicit point was that the Switch Lite in some way went back on the USP or branding of the Switch. But it didn't, because the Switch brand is for a handheld system that plays home console games "anytime, anywhere" and the Switch Lite is also exactly that. "Switch TV" isn't, and is never happening.
 
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Polygon said:
I’m by no means an expert but that doesn’t look like industry leading CGI to me. I would expect a big budget 3D Mario on Drake could get close to those visuals at least at a glance.
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While Illumination is not the highest end CG studio, this is well beyond what a console is capable off. Maybe I’m misjudging what “at a glance” means, but those are path-traced shadows being generated by fabric rendering. His denim isn’t a well textured model, it’s fabric simulation.

But, on the other hand, Nintendo has spent 20 years developing an aesthetic that is consistent for Mario and scales across resolutions. By being faithful to that, you’re going to preserve some of those qualities. Uprezzed Galaxy/Sunshine still look good for a reason
 
My Tulpa said:
The only thing that justifies the Lite’s existence right now is its bottom tier price tag. Its system is valued as the cheapest additional model for a household of Switch’s, or a bottom floor entry option for the truly cost conscious consumer.

When we talk about OLED being $300 and Drake being $400, it’s not the same value proposition. You still have the $199 and $250 options below it. The idea is, someone who is spending $300 or over are looking for the best features, everyone else is looking for the best price value. The $300 OLED doesn’t fit either profile.
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I was assuming the base Switch would be the one getting removed in this scenario, leaving the OLED as the new base option at $300. I understand that there are some plausible reasons for why the OLED could be the one that's removed. I think this depends on how small the profit margins on the OLED are. If Nintendo can at least break even with the device at $300, then they might prefer leaving that one over the base Switch because it would create a much better selection of device categories.

That's why I thought the argument about potential consumer confusion over the OLED and the new device would be a non-factor. Ultimately, it will come down to specific profit margins for each device and whether Nintendo thinks each price category holds unique value for consumers.
 
Dakhil said:
Well so far, the OLED model's dock still only supports the fixed source voltage of 15 V (but with the fixed source current increased to 2.6 A), which is a violation of USB PD specifications since the USB PD specifications require that all relevant fixed source voltages be supported, which is 5 V, 9 V, and 15 V for the OLED model's dock.

And the AC adapter, which I believe has been unchanged since the Nintendo Switch first launched in March 2017, only supports the fixed source voltages of 5 V (with the fixed source current of 1.5 A) and 15 V (with the fixed source current of 2.6 A), which is again a violation of USB PD specifications.

Considering that non-compliance with USB PD specifications can cause Nintendo Switch consoles to be bricked, and the EU mentioning that medium-sized devices that support the USB PD standard at up to 100 W being under the EU's purview, I can see the dock's compliance with USB PD specifications potentially being scrutinised by the EU, especially if the EU considers the dock to be a medium-sized device that supports the USB PD standard at up to 100 W.
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Yep, so no real way you slice it, Switch as it is is uncompliant for USB-PD
Whether it be the dock only accepting certain voltages, the AC adapter's voltages, or even the Switch itself

(I assume when it thinks it's docked it only expects that [email protected]/3A input, thus why even when some third-party docks are fully USB-PD compliant and is using an actual USB-PD compliant charger/battery bank, the Switch can still get bricked. Thus why third party dock companies insist you use the official AC adapter otherwise risk bricking your switch despite the dock working fine)

So if Nintendo was intending to keep that paradigm the same for Drake, they will have to release it in 2023 otherwise be forced to delay and refactor the system to make it (and it's accessories) USB-PD compliant
 
oldpuck said:
While Illumination is not the highest end CG studio, this is well beyond what a console is capable off. Maybe I’m misjudging what “at a glance” means, but those are path-traced shadows being generated by fabric rendering. His denim isn’t a well textured model, it’s fabric simulation.

But, on the other hand, Nintendo has spent 20 years developing an aesthetic that is consistent for Mario and scales across resolutions. By being faithful to that, you’re going to preserve some of those qualities. Uprezzed Galaxy/Sunshine still look good for a reason
Click to expand...

And that’s only taking into account up close details. There’s so much going on in the distance that nothing Nintendo has released (or arguably most games) comes close.

Nice looking denim is neat and all, but for sandbox style 3D Mario, seeing something like this in the distance would be way cool
 
carbonaxiom said:
I was assuming the base Switch would be the one getting removed in this scenario, leaving the OLED as the new base option at $300. I understand that there are some plausible reasons for why the OLED could be the one that's removed. I think this depends on how small the profit margins on the OLED are. If Nintendo can at least break even with the device at $300, then they might prefer leaving that one over the base Switch because it would create a much better selection of device categories.

That's why I thought the argument about potential consumer confusion over the OLED and the new device would be a non-factor. Ultimately, it will come down to specific profit margins for each device and whether Nintendo thinks each price category holds unique value for consumers.
Click to expand...

Right, I just don’t see them getting rid of the <$200 option though. At this point in the Switch lifecycle they have to have a $100-$200 option on the market.
 
karmitt said:
I’m kind of excited to see what comes of this movie. Will Nintendo treat it as something entirely separate, or will aspects of it leak into the 3D franchise?
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I hope some of the added details come over to the video games, like Mario having shoelaces and his gloves being a different design.
 
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carbonaxiom said:
I was assuming the base Switch would be the one getting removed in this scenario, leaving the OLED as the new base option at $300. I understand that there are some plausible reasons for why the OLED could be the one that's removed.
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In case it’s been lost, the whole reason this discussion kicked off was because of a currently unsubstantiated factory leak about OLED hardware (‘chips’ which was later confirmed to be motherboards) being phased and the new hardware replacing it.

I agree that I’d probably rather see the V2 axed but if it’s the OLED then so be it.
 
Serif said:
Switch TV still works with 'anywhere' if they market the ability to seamlessly play your existing games and save files on the TV, emphasizing the family of devices that play the same titles. Someone could buy a Lite and TV and have a pseudo hybrid experience.

Yes, I'm obviously stretching the meaning of that slogan. I still kind of want a Switch TV as a cheap cute little set top box for Mario Kart and Ring Fit. Sue me.
Click to expand...
Assuming Lite is $200 and TV-Only is $150, why not just buy a regular switch instead? That's like saying a Dex only Samsung, then marketing it like you can sync what you do on your Samsung Phone vice versa.
 
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