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Deleted member 1324
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Isn't there a 3D World level that starts with a view like that. Be cool to see the comparison.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
As I see it, a Switch TV would have price as its major selling point, just like the Lite model. There are people who are only interested in playing on TV. We have a very old usage data (I think it's from the end of 2017) from nintendo showing that ~18% of switch users would play in TV mode more than 80% of the time (that number would be ~30% for handheld or tabletop). I would really like to know what current numbers are like...
Anyway, to have I more 'console experience' I had to buy a pro controller. We know many did the same. So I could say the Switch cost me $370 (even though I ended up with more controllers). If someone is only interested in docked mode and $370 seems too high, a $200 model [with pro con] could be very appealing.
Now, I simply don't know if there is a demand for this specific case (as there was for the Lite model). We could presume there isn't because, in the end, nintendo didn't release such model. But personally I don't rule out the possibility of such model come to life with switch 2.
Anyway, to have I more 'console experience' I had to buy a pro controller. We know many did the same. So I could say the Switch cost me $370 (even though I ended up with more controllers). If someone is only interested in docked mode and $370 seems too high, a $200 model [with pro con] could be very appealing.
Now, I simply don't know if there is a demand for this specific case (as there was for the Lite model). We could presume there isn't because, in the end, nintendo didn't release such model. But personally I don't rule out the possibility of such model come to life with switch 2.
MP!
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I don't doubt your pricing
I do doubt what the product can offer
A lite ditches docking but gives you affordable portable play
Hybrid gives you portable and docked play
But a "TV only" ditches portable play and gives you a limited TV experience. It doesn't have anything to offer except a lower price point.
I'm sure it would sell to some people but I question its purpose without offering an improved docked experience over the hybrid.
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
Hosermess
Koopa
It's easy to see the appeal of a TV-only Switch for consumers. The incentive to Nintendo to offer one though, I don't think I've seen a good argument for that (or any argument really). And "they'll sell a lot of them" isn't a good argument if they'd just be cannibalizing sales from a more profitable model.
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
It's all about having more price points, giving consumers more options. If they have something that can substantially expand their market, they will explore that. If they haven't done it yet, high are the chances there isn't enough demand to justify all it takes to make another SKU.
Look over there
Bob-omb
There's a certain timeline out there where:
Intel's Atom line of CPUs evolve a certain way (especially improving core to core latency)
Intel continues to build on this foundation of Arc
& the... general climate of the consumer market(?) nudges consoles back towards sub-100 watts
Intel would make a very interesting candidate as vendor for a set top box system.
there was a time where Atom was better than the ARM at the time. but it involved cutting a lot of legacy stuff
Simba1
Bob-omb
To be fair, same could be said for Switch Lite, but at end point is to give more options with different price points to consumers.
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Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
If the next switch is going to cost between $400 and $450, and if Nintendo will need to wait for a shrink so they can release the cheaper Lite model, they could kinda of use a strategy similar to Microsoft and Sony by offering a more affordable option (yes, the TV model lol). Such model wouldn't need to wait for a die shrink. And if the hardware is what we are hoping for, I believe the next switch is going to be much more appealing as a TV experience only than the current model.
But don't worry, I'm not suggesting the hated TV model will be there for Nintendo's next generation
(Nintendo probably won't even be able to make enough units of the hybrid to meet demand - price will hardly be a factor within the first year)
But don't worry, I'm not suggesting the hated TV model will be there for Nintendo's next generation
(Nintendo probably won't even be able to make enough units of the hybrid to meet demand - price will hardly be a factor within the first year)
Gobias-Ind
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If Switch had sold like 50,000,000 to this point I'd think there'd be a good case to be made for a entry-level set top SKU.
The hardware sells enough as it is though. The platform is desirable enough that people with no interest in portability buy it anyways. Probably not much use in chasing a lower price point. I doubt there's tens of millions out there waiting on a cheaper SKU to jump on the Switch train.
The hardware sells enough as it is though. The platform is desirable enough that people with no interest in portability buy it anyways. Probably not much use in chasing a lower price point. I doubt there's tens of millions out there waiting on a cheaper SKU to jump on the Switch train.
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
Well, switch was released as a hybrid only. People used all arguments you could think of to deny the possibility of a switch that won't switch coming to existence (e.g. "it will destroy that hybrid format", "it will confuse consumers", "it will be a marketing disaster", etc). People got used to a switch that won't switch existing and now the 'stationary only' is the impossible SKU. Well, maybe it is...
Oh, I also doubt it. Even the Switch Lite didn't have tens of millions in sales (having sold 18.4kk as of March 31 2022)
RennanNT
Bob-omb
Thing is, Lite has 3 advantages:
The Switch TV would be no better than a Switch docked, except for a lower price. And since there's already a lower entry point you're not targeting "people who won't pay $300" but only the subset who won't buy a Lite either.
So, the potential to reach audiences beyond the current offering is quite smaller than it was for the Lite, which is already the least popular model. On top of it, by enforcing portability in all models, they can get some people to try it out when they wouldn't otherwise and end up valuing it more.
I'm not against one (I would have even bought one last year) nor I think it's impossible for them to do one, but until their supply greatly surpass demand, I don't see it as a worth investment for them right now. Maybe if they wanted a slice of the streaming dongles/boxes, but they don't care to the point they didn't even got Netflix.
- A lower entry point
- A smaller screen for those who prefer that
- Increased chances of multiple purchase per household (cheaper, sturdier, smaller and no multiplayer out of the box)
The Switch TV would be no better than a Switch docked, except for a lower price. And since there's already a lower entry point you're not targeting "people who won't pay $300" but only the subset who won't buy a Lite either.
So, the potential to reach audiences beyond the current offering is quite smaller than it was for the Lite, which is already the least popular model. On top of it, by enforcing portability in all models, they can get some people to try it out when they wouldn't otherwise and end up valuing it more.
I'm not against one (I would have even bought one last year) nor I think it's impossible for them to do one, but until their supply greatly surpass demand, I don't see it as a worth investment for them right now. Maybe if they wanted a slice of the streaming dongles/boxes, but they don't care to the point they didn't even got Netflix.
LinkURL
Bob-omb
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A TV only switch could use a Hard Drive, and with reduced costs (150 dollars?) it would be a very interesting product for emergent markets like Brazil (my country) and India.
D
Deleted member 887
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I wonder how much the cost reduction would be, actually, especially if it ships with a pro controller, but emerging markets represent a potential target I hadn’t considered
HankyPanky
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the analysis lines up perfectly with a cross-gen title - looks like it could run on OG Switch with scope for effects/resolution that would be pushed on Drake.
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I don’t really see why it would be a hard drive rather than just the SD card and have a smaller profile.
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That was only the guessed reason for the dock supporting HDMI 2.0 rather than 1.4
Not really for why the dock went from 18W to 39W as shown here:
USB slots don’t really consume a lot rightThe OLED Model dock is curious that the output power is greatly enhanced.
Normal: 18W, OLED: 39W
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Yeah the Shield TV is expandable with MicroSD.
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The Lite exists because Nintendo has for decades serviced and dominated the cheap handheld sector, and it makes sense for them to continue doing so. Base Switch is too large and too expensive to fill those shoes. Whether or not it “switches” probably has little to do with why it exists.
A TV only release just doesn’t feel like it needs to exist - and again, nothing to do with its lack of “switching.” The Switch has, relatively speaking, been one of the cheaper options on the market even at $300. If a person really wanted a Switch to play on TV, I suspect most haven’t held off because they won’t use the screen. There's probably a market for an even cheaper option, but I think Nintendo would be better off trying to reduce the cost of the base Switch after Drake launches. Perhaps we'll see a $149 Lite and $229 standard in another year or two.
For those proposing a TV-Only Drake along side a full featured one, I can’t think of a good reason they’d do this. The “I want a powerful Switch but don't use handheld mode” crew isn’t going to move the needle.
Do console manufacturers regularly target under $150 even late generation? If there’s a sweet spot for pricing late gen, I still think Nintendo would be better suited to get the base Switch to that point. It’s the compelling product the market loves.
A TV only release just doesn’t feel like it needs to exist - and again, nothing to do with its lack of “switching.” The Switch has, relatively speaking, been one of the cheaper options on the market even at $300. If a person really wanted a Switch to play on TV, I suspect most haven’t held off because they won’t use the screen. There's probably a market for an even cheaper option, but I think Nintendo would be better off trying to reduce the cost of the base Switch after Drake launches. Perhaps we'll see a $149 Lite and $229 standard in another year or two.
For those proposing a TV-Only Drake along side a full featured one, I can’t think of a good reason they’d do this. The “I want a powerful Switch but don't use handheld mode” crew isn’t going to move the needle.
Do console manufacturers regularly target under $150 even late generation? If there’s a sweet spot for pricing late gen, I still think Nintendo would be better suited to get the base Switch to that point. It’s the compelling product the market loves.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
I could see a Tegra X1 Switch Home post-Drake like Wii Mini, which released after the Wii U in the US.
$99, set top box intended as a Mario Kart and Wii/Switch sports machine. Only this time with internet, lol
I think there's a small audience for this and I think the chances of this happening are low, but nonzero.
$99, set top box intended as a Mario Kart and Wii/Switch sports machine. Only this time with internet, lol
I think there's a small audience for this and I think the chances of this happening are low, but nonzero.
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ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
Generally, they consume around 2.5W (0.5A, 5V).
There are 0 reasons for nintendo to make a switch with an HDD. Not only it would require them to add components in the pcb to support a sata drive (plus driver implementations for the OS which I assume aren't even in place since the switch doesn't support external HDDs) but they'd also need to account for the increase in power consumption (if they're working on a settled design like the tegra X1, if that's what you mean).
Even if it's a new (drake) design, it still makes zero sense because of how game developers have been moving towards targeting SSDs instead (their testbenches use SSDs, if their game performs poorly on HDDs they probably won't optimize for it since the paradigm shift to ssds has already happened years ago).
A TV-only switch would also need to be cheaper than 150$ simply because for just 50$ more you could get a lite which is an AIO device and way more compelling.
Unless... the tv-only switch comes with 2 joycons + a joycon grip instead of a single pro controller. Even then, I still think ~125$ would be a better price.
The end of your comment is the actually interesting part. I think people ITT need to better realize how nintendo could benefit from investing in developing countries. @LinkURL made a valid point about his country but I think a few other SA ones might be relevant enough as well*. To be fair, I don't know exactly about the Philippines and some of the countries within the European eastern bloc.
*Relevant as in, enough active consumers. By that I mean not just people who buy a switch console and maybe just one or two games or even worse: people who buy a console to hack it and run pirated copies. We know console unit sales don't really rake in too much of a profit for nintendo and their main source of income when it comes to switch is actually their games and the NSO service.
ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
The Philippines unfortunately is a mobile gaming country because people are poor so they can only afford to play free mobile games. It also says a lot about unemployment in the country.
The chart above is misleading because it is mostly skewed for mobile games like Mobile Legends and Call of Duty Mobile which is popular in the country. Nintendo and Playstation still exists but the market is not that big as compared to affordable phone games.
Also, piracy is rampant. Whenever a device gets hacked, it becomes popular. For example, the PSP wouldn't have been popular in the country if it wasn't hacked early. Now everyone is wearing a PSP like a necklace lol. Xbox 360 becomes semi-popular during the jtag hacks but Xbox One didn't because you can't pirate games on the device.
The only perks of being in a South East Asian country like the Philippines are Asian releases of the games.
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
You are comparing two completely different products. Why would someone who doesn't like handhelds choose the Lite in this situation?
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D
Deleted member 887
Guest
Regularly, no, but Nintendo has on more than one occasion. The Wii Mini was $100, the GameBoy Micro was $79 (not apples to apples obviously), and there was a China only DS variant that was a DS Phat motherboard in a DS Lite-esque s that was sold for extremely cheap after the DS Lite was out for a bit.
I don’t think anyone has been dismissive of it. But Nintendo’s market reach in those places is limited by forces that aren’t always solvable with hardware.
Within the context of this thread I think it is a stretch to imagine how Nintendo might shift their hardware strategy to accommodate markets they haven’t yet opened the eShop. Brazil and Argentina are interesting examples because Nintendo has started to market in those areas.
I can see an argument that a supremely budget device might play in those markets. I’ve thought about it a bit and I’m not sure a TV only device can get you a price much better than the Lite. A Pro controller is 70 bucks, you’d need to find 90 bucks of savings to get something compelling.
You might just get there by shipping a USB controller without rumble or amiibo support , but your upfront engineering costs have gone up because so little can be shared with your existing products and a lot of what you are cutting are exactly the kind of off the shelf components whose decrease in price usually enable these kinds of budget hardware revisions.
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Read the link. It says it’s currently less profitable, but you’re claiming it’s “barely profitable”.If I remember it was in one of FY meetings.
EDIT, you have link about OLED being less profitable down
Nintendo Switch price isn't going up, despite higher costs: president
Shuntaro Furukawa sees big game releases like Pokemon boosting salesasia.nikkei.com
First, you dont know how exactly big profit was back in 2017. or if shipping by planes also meant they were selling them with profit.
I think that with rise of general Switch costs (parts, production, shipping costs..) and inflation last two years (especially last 6 months), $50 price cut would most likely mean they wouldnt sold hardware at profit.
Also, I didnt said they cant afford not selling Switch hardware at zero or loss, just that they at this point they wouldn't do that (selling hardware without profit).
You are wrong, CAD dollar this years inflation is around 7% until now, while in 2021. was around 3%, so until now this year inflation is more than double compared to last year, normal CAD inflation in past years was around 2-3%.
In any case Sony itself said they rising prices on selected markets due to "global economic environment, including high inflation rates"
PS5 price to increase in select markets due to global economic environment, including high inflation rates
New recommended retail price coming to select markets in the EMEA, APAC, and LATAM regions, plus Canada.blog.playstation.com
Second, the percentage for the CAD is correct, but check the actual currency value. The CAD was riding pretty high following a low in 2020 and current inflation rates have caused its value to fall back to the same value it had in 2020. Compare its value now to its value in 2020 (when PS5 MSRP would have been determined) and you’ll find it’s near-even:
CAD/USD (CADUSD=X) Live Rate, Chart & News - Yahoo Finance
Find the latest CAD/USD (CADUSD=X) currency exchange rate, plus historical data, charts, relevant news and more
ca.finance.yahoo.com
When you produce the exact same part with no deviation and do so in high enough volumes, companies achieve an economy of scale where production reaches its most efficient level. This is a well-known phenomenon.
In addition, an SoC die shrink in 2019 made the SoC even cheaper. And then there’s major logistics savings through packaging size and/or weight decreases. I mentioned this all already.
But this idea that costs do not dramatically fall across 5 years is frankly bizarre. And the truth and an example of economies of scale in action is more that readily evidenced by a company that is not shy about profit-making, Apple.
The iPhone 12, from 2 years ago, launched at $799 MSRP. In 2022, it’s now $599. Given the company we’re talking about, is it at all likely that Apple has trimmed its profit margin on this model to sell it as a budget phone? Or is the most likely conclusion is that Apple has found a $200 savings in part costs and preserved their margin per unit as is?
Part costs in electronics often fall as time passes, and often do so in a way that permits price drops or widely expanded profit margins the longer from launch things get. And this is usually achieved through persistent demand for parts causing economies of scale to be achieved.
While I won’t speak about future hardware yet, I’ve seen the possibility of a TV-only Switch as a near-EoL device for the super budget-conscious, like New 2DS, the component-less GameCube, the Wii Mini, the redesigned NES and SNES, the GBMicro… you get the picture.
And yeah, cost is the big benefit. The 4 most expensive components in a camera-less mobile device are the SoC, RAM, screen and power management/battery.
Switch Lite achieves its price point by getting rid of the dock, components necessary for separate Joy-Cons, no Bluetooth, diminished pointer/motion control, smaller display, reduced heat dissipation (as the Lite can never ramp up to the TDP of a docked Switch) and a smaller internal battery, and probably other components that don’t immediately come to mind. That permitted a $100 decrease in MSRP by merely reducing 2 of the 4 most expensive components and removing unnecessary functions for its form factor.
Now imagine taking a Lite, adding a Pro controller (or a new Pro-like controller with a standard 20hr Joy-Con battery to trim costs further), adding back a BT antenna, returning the heat pipe found in the OLED or opting instead for a cheaper heat sink due to no restriction to thinness in the design, totally removing the screen (which is usually the 2nd or 3rd largest part expense in mobile hardware), replacing the battery with a far less costly power supply, less chassis overall… you end up with a pretty small set-top device with 2 of its most expensive parts completely absent rather than just scaled down, along with even more cost-trimming options than the Lite. You’re looking at a device that could potentially hit as low as $100 MSRP, but more likely something like $120.
As pointed out, this opens up Switch to markets that are plagued by high prices due to tariffs (like Brazil) or regions where the vast majority of the population will be more price-sensitive than others.
But beyond that, I'll come to this point:
This is absolutely right. I didn't hold off on buying a Switch, even though I played it in handheld mode a tiny handful of times as a novelty. But that's precisely WHY they should do it. At $120, I could easily pick up a TV-only Switch, but what do you think I'm going to do with the Switch I already have? It's not going to go in the dumpster, it's going to end up in someone else's hands. So even if a TV-only Switch appeals to 10% of consumers who already own a Switch, that means a 10% increase in Switch market share as existing Switches end up in the hands of other people, just as it is with pre-existing consumers buying an OLED and sending their OG Switch into the 2nd-hand market (hand-me-downs, garage sales, etc). Add that to new customers they'll get from an even lower barrier to entry and you've got a justifiable market that could prove more lucrative than the Lite is.
This actually brings me to my last point, that it actually wouldn't have to be an EoL product were it not for the timing of it in Switch's lifespan and could serve these purposes at any time in the lifecycle of the product. I could see a scenario, for example, where a traditionally PS5-only gamer looks at a TV-only Switch 2 launched side-by-side with a hybrid one for a lot less money and goes "what the hell, at that price, I get Nintendo games AND what PS5 offers".
What I'm saying is there's a lot of ways in which a TV-only model, with its inherent cost and MSRP reductions, opens the market up for Nintendo just a tad wider than people give the idea credit for.
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Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
Just to be sure: you aren't talking about bill of materials, right? The BoM for a controller like this should be ~$22.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
They’re referring to buyers in Brazil or other similar markets, where people do want handhelds but are very budget conscious.
In those cases a TV only switch at 150 might be a failure because those buyers will just pay the small premium to get a portable device, but at 125 it might open it up to folks who wouldn’t otherwise buy a game console at all.
Ultimately I don’t think even that cut is enough to make it viable. Nintendo can serve that market by bundling the Lite with Mario Kart, bringing net cost well below what the TV only model could achieve, while also gently pushing more affluent consumers in the direction of NSO and difficult-to-pirate DLC.
Which brings me back to a regular point of mine - that we are, in this thread, generally better engineers than we are marketers and business folk
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
The consumer price - as I said, Nintendo would want to preserve their margins. By definition these are users who will be spending less on software.
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Brazil is the market where the best-selling hardware in the country is a Master System clone that frequently outsells contemporary hardware strictly because it's cheaper. From the outside looking in, price means more to that market than utility, but perhaps @LinkURL can confirm that suspicion, seeing as how he lives in that market.
By that logic, Switch should be more money to preserve Joy-Con margins. After all, they retail for... what was it?
A console without a single controller is a non-starter and the pack-in controller is subsidized at cost in every gaming hardware sold. And even with that in mind, the pack-in controller can be different from additional controllers at retail, as I mentioned, or they could introduce a more cost-efficient variant to the Pro controller at retail, as well.
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
Well, for me it doesn't make sense. If they want a handheld, they will buy a handheld. I don't see most consumers buying a product that does something completely different just because it is cheaper.
When we talk about countries like Brazil and Argentina, the biggest problem is the price of the games (specially nintendo games).
Just to complement. I'm not sure if LinkURL was specifically talking about how to make an even cheaper option or if they were also considering a possibly preference for a TV only model. But either way, like I said, the problem in these countries is the price of the game. Usually people will buy the hardware that delivers what they want. The Lite model already has an affordable price in Brazil for those interested in a handheld. The problem is the price of the games that is really high (specially from Nintendo, which is the major reason someone would buy a nintendo hardware there, because xbox and PS are, by far, much stronger with brazilians). If the idea for a tv only sku is basically price for SA countries, it's better to do nothing. What they need the most is localized pricing for software.
More like xbox one and ps4. You will still find ps3 and x360. People who really consume games have at least the last-gen. They also play on PC or smartphones (the latter one is really strong in brazil)
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Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
I saw a rumor about the next meta quest coming with a SD 8 gen 2, which is supposed (?) going to use the TSMC 4N. Quest is Meta's 'affordable' VR solution. It will probably keep the $400 price tag and should be released in oct/2023. Rumors has it that meta shipped ~10kk quest 2 in one year (I'm expecting even better numbers for quest 3).
Considering all the extra technology that comes with a VR HMD, I'm starting to think more about nintendo using tsmc's 4N too...
Considering all the extra technology that comes with a VR HMD, I'm starting to think more about nintendo using tsmc's 4N too...
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Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
double post
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ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
I doubt the TV only switch will not include a Joycon.
woodhead
Boo
The Shield TV Pro with drives (HDD/SSD) over USB
Simba1
Bob-omb
Read the link. It says it’s currently less profitable, but you’re claiming it’s “barely profitable”.
Second, the percentage for the CAD is correct, but check the actual currency value. The CAD was riding pretty high following a low in 2020 and current inflation rates have caused its value to fall back to the same value it had in 2020. Compare its value now to its value in 2020 (when PS5 MSRP would have been determined) and you’ll find it’s near-even:
So again, I don’t buy that the price hike in Canada has anything to do with inflation. But it’s not like Canadians aren’t used to MSRPs inflated far beyond what they should be to compensate for currency value, we’re squeezed pretty hard on this front. For example, Switch MSRP is CAD$400, a 33% increase in price over the US dollar despite a 25% difference in US-CAD currency value in 2017. Companies are always pricing things here as though the loonie is about to take a major nosedive in value at any given moment.CAD/USD (CADUSD=X) Live Rate, Chart & News - Yahoo Finance
Find the latest CAD/USD (CADUSD=X) currency exchange rate, plus historical data, charts, relevant news and more
When you produce the exact same part with no deviation and do so in high enough volumes, companies achieve an economy of scale where production reaches its most efficient level. This is a well-known phenomenon.
In addition, an SoC die shrink in 2019 made the SoC even cheaper. And then there’s major logistics savings through packaging size and/or weight decreases. I mentioned this all already.
Yeah, its says less profitable, but that also proves you were wrong by saying that OLED has similar profit compared to two other models.
Point is that US dollar only stayed strong and having on mind thats strongest currency in the world, US market that didnt had price hike for PS5.
I mean Sony itself said that rising prices on selected markets due to "global economic environment, including high inflation rates"
So US is expectation of higher price point of PS5 not a rule, and higher price point of PS5 is because big global raise of costs and inflation.
Also, try to remember when last time some console had rising price point.
Point is that everything is much more expensive last two years and especially last 6 months compared to 2019. going from gas/fuel, console packing to sellers fees.
Lets say in 2019. to produce 10m Switch screens costed $25m (so $2.5 per screen), but in 2022. producing 10m Switch screens now cost $40m (so $4 per screen),
only if Nintendo didnt had contract at that time of production of lets 70m+ screens, they will now pay more than they did in 2019.
Yes, SoC die shrink in 2019 made the SoC even cheaper, but from 2020. and especially in last 6 months, prices and costs start to raise.
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They aren't entirely different products because software-wise, they are the same platform. And consoles are sold as software-first products*.
*Not only exclusives, but also the console software experience.
Someone who can afford a 50/75/100$ difference between a TV-only switch and the lite can be skewed towards the latter due to the built-in screen, speakers and portability.
Even if said person doesn't like handhelds, those benefits might be compelling.
Because essentially, there are two types of people who aren't into handhelds: the ones who don't care about the benefits and, the ones who specifically prefer playing on the couch/computer chair with a monitor/TV. While it is hard to sell the idea of a portable to the former, convincing the latter isn't as difficult.
In terms of benefits, other than being cheaper, the only actually great things about a tv-only switch are docked mode and being able to attach a capture card.
Considering that the switch already has a built-in, easy to use video capture solution (albeit limited), and the fact that switch users (mostly) don't care about graphics (specially considering how most first party games look great even when in handheld mode) I don't think said benefits would be that interesting (except for the price).
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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Inflation (or at least the standard measures of inflation you'll see in economic reporting) isn't a particularly good measure of the cost to manufacture electronic goods. Inflation statistics measure consumer prices, and although the methodology varies a bit from country to country, it usually consists of taking a basket of goods that's meant to represent the spending of an average person, and tracking the price of that basket. If we take, as an example, the categories in the basket used for the UK's inflation statistics, we see:
food & non-alcoholic beverages, alcohol & tobacco, clothing & footwear, housing & household services, furniture & household goods, health, transport, communication, recreation & culture, education, restaurants & hotels and miscellaneous goods & services
For almost all of these categories, they have no bearing on the costs involved in manufacturing a games console. Transport would have some correlation (although in this case transport also includes things like the cost of buying and maintaining a car), and shipping costs would have increased in the past year, but this is only a small part of the costs of a device like the Switch. It's also the category which has seen the biggest reduction in costs in the last monthly figures, as fuel costs come down.
Sony mentioned inflation with respect to PS5 prices, but this was a rationalisation, not a cause. Sony have been supply constrained for a while, and with high inflation, they have an excuse to increase prices.
Besides, we don't need to guess at Nintendo's margins, they publish quarterly reports, and it's not too difficult to estimate hardware margins from the figures they publish. I did this for the last quarterly report and got an estimated hardware margin of 33%, which is around the same margin Apple makes on their hardware. There's some room for error in this figure (particularly in how they categorise accessories), but it'll be in or around that point. Switch OLED margins are lower than for the regular Switch, but that doesn't mean they're significantly so. They could be selling at a 30% margin and it would still be lower than the 2019 model.
Tentacle-tropes
Kremling
A TV only Switch faces the same problems as the Lite currently does. And, while that has sold okay up to this point people value the overall package Switch brings. I suspect a TV Switch will sell to an even more limited audience then Lite already does. And, no this device would not be 100$; it would be the same price as Lite if they keep it & axe the other two.
All I see with a TV Switch is Wii Mini which is not a great comparison. To make a better EOL device just reduce the prices of V2 Switch & OLED to 200$ & 300$ respectively.
All I see with a TV Switch is Wii Mini which is not a great comparison. To make a better EOL device just reduce the prices of V2 Switch & OLED to 200$ & 300$ respectively.
Hosermess
Koopa
I think most consumers would see Nintendo selling both a cheap TV only Switch & a cheap portable only Switch and wonder why the one that does both is so much more. Stating stuff like "oh removing things like the joycon rails really adds up" likely won't be very convincing. And that's without considering the even more expensive hybrid model they'll be releasing soon™. But in some imagined future a few years from now, anything is possible.
The problem with that is how would joycons charge then? The only answer I can think of is a joycon grip with a cable output that connects to the dock (in this case, the switch-tv console itself). Third party solutions already exist, but that would only add up to the total cost since nintendo wouldn't even be able to reutilize current joycon grips shipped with more expensive models.
Speaking of that, I just remembered an older post from a previous discussion ITT about the total (estimated) cost of production for the 300$ nintendo switch:
@kvetcha , replied to my skepticism pointing out how the bill of materials and manufacturing for the joycons alone was 90$. And since I couldn't reply at the time, why not go back to that discussion since it's on point with the whole cost argument on what a tv-only switch would come with and be priced at.
First off, the 257$ estimated price even if true, is probably bellow that by now since manufacturing for a product gets cheaper across it's lifespan.
Even if the cost of manufacturing is about the same now as it was back in 2017, how exactly does one explain that "90$" cost on joycons alone when nintendo sold joycons separatedly for years now for an MSRP of 79.99 ? even if you told me it's the joycon grip that's taken out of the 80$ joycons package, I wouldn't believe you since it's only a piece of plastic with no circuitry at all and I doubt nintendo's selling joycons at a loss. I mean, they could sell the console at a loss (I know they don't) since it's a platform for people to buy software/make microtransactions from nintendo. But a joycon? there's nothing to gain from selling a controller at a loss.
That said, I think it's impossible we could see a tv-only switch for less than 150$ if it came with joycons. Maybe a cheaper pro controller like others have said.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
- Pronouns
- He/Him
here's a fun fact about manufacturing getting cheaper over time: in Apple's case, they periodically go to Foxconn and set a new rate themselves that Foxconn sort of just has to meet. generally they accomplish this by paying workers less, as in most cases things don't actually keep getting cheaper to source in perpetuity
did I say fun fact? I meant really terrible fact sorry
did I say fun fact? I meant really terrible fact sorry
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
What? I can't tell if I've lost the thread of the conversation or you have. I was saying that Nintendo won't sell a TV only Switch at cost to a market that by definition spends less on software. The Pro+Lite was a baseline for what that device might look like, then seeing how much could be whittled off that combo.
Yes, that is exactly what I said - a USB controller without rumble of amiibo support could get quite cheap. I'm not sure the final SKU could get to $100 dollars though, which is my estimate for where you'd need to get it. Otherwise bundling the Lite with a game does roughly the same thing at no upfront engineering cost to Nintendo.
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