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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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KeijiKG
Moblin
You know people want this for more than just 4K, right?
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Alovon11
Like Like
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- He/Them
Unfortunately, Drake's launch day likely was finalized in late 2021 in regards to the window, so no real ability for Nintendo to shimmy it out of wherever they placed it.
Ditto NVN2's API being existent/developed decently, and the SoC Specs being finalized thanks to the Linux Kernel update featuring T239 in it
- Pronouns
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Don’t worry, Nintendo will simply never sell you a switch 2 while the rest of the world gets to buy one oh magical crystal ball user.
KeijiKG
Moblin
Aye, but my point is there's somethings more/faster RAM and an upgraded CPU/GPU can do that a dongle that merely affects display output can't.That and the mClassic only does up to 1440p
ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
My V2 can already charge the joycon from the grip. The grip has a USB C socket. At least mine does. Not 100% sure though because my V2 is second hand but the grip is an official one.
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
Yeah, let's agree in disagree. They are completely different products. How are you going to play local multi-player with switch lite? Just one example.
For those who don't like handheld, you're paying more for a worse experience. If you could use the Lite on the TV, then I would agree. In a country like Brazil, the portability is only remotely interesting for those who want that from the start (and they'll get the hardware that offers that), because you won't see anyone playing with it outside (it's too dangerous lol)
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Even if OLED dies in Q1 next year, there will probably still be more of them than Wii U or most 3DS models.
Unless you think they'll be giving a massive upgrade from OLED without any change in price, or that it will be over $500, that's pretty much what remains.
The person you bought it from bought an aftermarket grip with charging capabilities.
Even the OLED uses the same plastic, no circuitry included grip from the v1 and v2 switches.
Pretty sure you can use local wireless even on a switch lite. On switch games, local wireless is enabled by hitting a button combination before/after? entering the room. In the case of splatoon it's "the shoal" in other games, well I don't know...
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
Since the release of the switch, nintendo has sold a grip with such functionality. I just don't think it comes with the V2 (if it does, it's news to me). But being second hand can explain that.
Sure. You just need more consoles for that, right lol
Link_enfant
Fashion Dreamer
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Nintendo never sold a charging grip with any model of the Switch, sadly it must be bought separately. I’m pretty confident about that, so in that case it’s because it was second hand yea
Foltzie
Uncle Muji
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- he/him
I'm late to the party, but I find the Switch TV console conversation fascinating. I see that there is some interest in such a device on this forum.
I used to think that having a TV only model would be damaging to the Switch brand; however, with 100M+ sales, viewing it as a PS Vita TV (or Wii Mini) like device that compliments the Switch Lite in driving long tail sales may not be too crazy.
I do however think anyone expecting such a device to be cheaper than the Switch Lite to be mistaken, at the very least the case would have to integrate the dock chipset inside a case with the Switch motherboard, if not outright making a different motherboard to accommodate the needs for TV output. Neither of which leads to a cheaper BOM. Yes, the screen isn't needed, but screen/integrated controller may be a wash or even cheaper than changes needed for TV output, JoyCons, and charging grip to create a complete package. I think that Joy-Con's and Charing grip may well make such a device a $250 device instead of a $200 one.
Maybe Nintendo sells such a device w/o a controller, but I'm not aware of Nintendo doing that before. . .
I used to think that having a TV only model would be damaging to the Switch brand; however, with 100M+ sales, viewing it as a PS Vita TV (or Wii Mini) like device that compliments the Switch Lite in driving long tail sales may not be too crazy.
I do however think anyone expecting such a device to be cheaper than the Switch Lite to be mistaken, at the very least the case would have to integrate the dock chipset inside a case with the Switch motherboard, if not outright making a different motherboard to accommodate the needs for TV output. Neither of which leads to a cheaper BOM. Yes, the screen isn't needed, but screen/integrated controller may be a wash or even cheaper than changes needed for TV output, JoyCons, and charging grip to create a complete package. I think that Joy-Con's and Charing grip may well make such a device a $250 device instead of a $200 one.
Maybe Nintendo sells such a device w/o a controller, but I'm not aware of Nintendo doing that before. . .
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Eos
Cappy
Nintendo has never released a device above the $400, so it would be quite shocking to see that happening. I mean... it's possible. But in my perspective, I'd rather buy a only TV Switch at $300-350 than a new Switch a $450-$500.
Stinky Horse
Bob-omb
The dock chipset is potentially not necessary at all, assuming the firmware can be made to work with that. The Nvidia shield TV obviously doesn't have a dock chipset.
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While I too am intrigued by the idea of a Switch TV-only device, what I just realized that would make it a complete non-starter is the lack of save backup for certain games. If it's not inherently easy to ensure both consoles are up to date on save files (and even then only for NSO subscribers), or don't even offer it for games like Dark Souls/Pokemon/Splatoon 2, I can't see why anyone existing Switch Lite owner would be compelled to get a new TV-only Switch console when they can't use the same save file.
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
I have never thought about that. I'm so used to pc gaming that I keep forgetting things like this happen on switch.
I don't have a switch lite, but can't lite owners just connect a joycon or pro controller to the console and play with friends like you can on a switch with tabletop mode?
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It’s less convenient to do that, as the system doesn’t really make tabletop mode… well, actually feasible in a sensible manner.
The OLED is the best one for that.
RennanNT
Bob-omb
The Switch allows you to transfer individual save files, including games without backup support. Right now it takes a lot more steps than it should, but they can improve on that if they want to. That's not what would stop them.
Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
You can. You just need a kickstand. But seriously, are you really comparing playing Mario Kart or Smash in a 5.5" screen with playing it on a TV? Even if it was just 2 players, it would be ridiculous. Imagine 4 players LMAO
I really can't agree with this idea that the Lite model is superior is every way VS a TV model. Let's just watch the Nintendo direct lol
D
Deleted member 1324
Guest
"At a glance" I just mean the general public Mr and Mrs Walmart. Obviously there's a huge leap between CGI and even modern real time visuals like Ratchet PS5.
The new trailer is awesome. Perfect art imo.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Makes a really noticable difference for xenoblade 3 on my 1080p tv.
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Clearly, since the movie was shown and it was nice to look at and an interesting prospect to look forward to, Nintendo will not announce new hardware for the next 4 years.
did I do the unrelated items right this time?
did I do the unrelated items right this time?
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So I’ve been curious about this for a while now, and that’s the Audio aspect.
We focus on the main cores for games, those being the A57 cores of which the switch has 4 and only 3 for games and 1 for the OS.
However there seems to be a 5th core that’s simply dedicated to the audio functionality of the system:
For more information click here
Anyway, for the important part: will we see an improvement to this area of the SoC? What Core would be a good one to use for this?
Previously I thought including something like an A55 core as a dedicated audio would be good but I’m not sure.
Or maybe using a Cortex-A17 would be better fit here, yes it’s older but it offers 20% power reduction while performing 60% better or so they claim
Thoughts?
Edit: though…. Maybe reuse the A57 for audio work….
We focus on the main cores for games, those being the A57 cores of which the switch has 4 and only 3 for games and 1 for the OS.
However there seems to be a 5th core that’s simply dedicated to the audio functionality of the system:
For more information click here
Anyway, for the important part: will we see an improvement to this area of the SoC? What Core would be a good one to use for this?
Previously I thought including something like an A55 core as a dedicated audio would be good but I’m not sure.
Or maybe using a Cortex-A17 would be better fit here, yes it’s older but it offers 20% power reduction while performing 60% better or so they claim
Thoughts?
Edit: though…. Maybe reuse the A57 for audio work….
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Kise Ryota
Bob-omb
Orin NX seems to have the same core
Dedicated programmable audio processor | ARM Cortex A9 with NEON
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Ah that’s interesting! So Drake would remain the same in that regard.
Edit: the link you posted didn’t seem to work right.
For anyone else here’s a link.
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ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
Yeah probably that, It's an HAC-012 after checking the model number.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Weirdly it has the same model number, but, isn't identical but a revision. BUT, V2 Switches still have the version 1 Joy-Con grip.
The Joy-Con Grip included with Nintendo Switch - OLED Model has a debossed logo, while the Joy-Con Grip included in all other models, including sold individually, have a glossy logo with no debossing.
Fun fact: Despite being entirely passive, some games can detect the usage of the Joy-Con Grip by measuring and comparison motion vectors of the L and R Joy-Con, allowing you to go from Thmbs Up Grip to Dual Stick Grip without opening a menu! Neat! But this does mean you can't use Dual Stick Grip without the Joy-Con Grip, as using them seperated will always register as the Thumbs Up Grip! Shame.
It does annoy me the Grip is entirely passive, the charging Grip doesn't even have any smarts, it just charges, no USB connection for the controllers, no controllers piggybacking off one Bluetooth signal, nothing.
In my view, every grip should have been a charging grip from day one. The default grip is a pathetic excuse of a product. I also think they could have put some smarts into it; like allowing it to be used as a wired connection rather than just charging, or when wireless, using the connectors to connect the Joy-Con L to the Joy-Con R rather than both having their own connection to the console to cut down on interference.
I don't expect Super Nintendo Switch to change the Joy-Con Grip at ALL from the OLED Model though, even if I wish it would.
ertaboy356b
Resident Troll
For reference, here's my charging grip. Not sure how much it will add to the cost though, and you can't use it while charging since I tried.
Lelouch0612
Growing Install Base
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If it uses the same dock as the OLED, I could see them having a dockless SKU for 50$ less. That would save the HDMI cable, the dock and maybe even the charging block ?
Would target OLED owners and to a lower extent, portable Switch Lite/v2 players.
Would target OLED owners and to a lower extent, portable Switch Lite/v2 players.
Link_enfant
Fashion Dreamer
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I thought about that but I'm afraid it might lead to unnecessary confusion for customers.
Even with the proper packaging, that very new Switch would still show the same dock as OLED which won't disappear from stores instantly (even if they stop production).
And it's going to be a mess if they have to explain that "you can use your existing dock with this very new Switch, but only if it's the new OLED dock and not the old one".
The idea of a cheaper SKU/bundle without dock makes sense, but in practice I wouldn't expect it for those reasons.
The problem is that people don't realize how little cutting stuff like HDMI cables, plastic bits with no circuitry like the joycon grip, the battery itself, etc... add to savings for a potential lower tier model.
For funsies, yesterday I went to chinese websites like aliex. to search how (on average) switch lite components like the lcd display + digitizer, the battery, joysticks, etc... were being sold for. And obviously, the prices you see there aren't indicative of the actual manufacturing cost. Even cutting a "low" margin of error of like 1-5$ profit from every item, the total savings from removing switch lite components that wouldn't be present on a switch tv-only model were hardly even close to 150$, let alone 100-125$.
Even if we take into consideration cost savings through a board redesign (which would probably happen regardless) and inevitable changes to the plastic enclosure and the product's box, it is still impossible (in my opinion) to add a controller to that package.
For funsies, yesterday I went to chinese websites like aliex. to search how (on average) switch lite components like the lcd display + digitizer, the battery, joysticks, etc... were being sold for. And obviously, the prices you see there aren't indicative of the actual manufacturing cost. Even cutting a "low" margin of error of like 1-5$ profit from every item, the total savings from removing switch lite components that wouldn't be present on a switch tv-only model were hardly even close to 150$, let alone 100-125$.
Even if we take into consideration cost savings through a board redesign (which would probably happen regardless) and inevitable changes to the plastic enclosure and the product's box, it is still impossible (in my opinion) to add a controller to that package.
cw_sasuke
Octorok
I can see a dockless SKU happen but the price gap wouldnt be just 50 bucks, dont think Nintendo would bother with a separate SKU at launch if the price difference is this small. 100 USD sounds more likely, especially when you consider what the Dock is sold on its own.
Then again it also depends on what the price of the system with the Dock is. If you are upgrading from another Switch you would probably value having a 2nd Dock around as well, so i dont know how much retail space they would want to reserve for a dockless cheaper SKU.
RennanNT
Bob-omb
Just to entertain the idea... What are the chances of a $100 cheaper Drake Lite which could cast (handheld profile) to a docked OG Switch or a dongle sold separately?
I imagine keeping latency low with any router would require it to connect directly to the OG Switch while being connected to a router for online functionality. Would that require a custom/expensive wifi chip?
I imagine keeping latency low with any router would require it to connect directly to the OG Switch while being connected to a router for online functionality. Would that require a custom/expensive wifi chip?
Mr Swine
Like Like
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- He
Seems like Apple’s A16 chip costs over twice as much to produce compared to A15 chip going from 5nm to 4nm
A16 over twice as expensive as the A15
A16 over twice as expensive as the A15
A hacked switch v1/v2/OLED (or even the lite) can already stream it's video feed to a PC, but the latency and image quality aren't that great or consistent.
I don't see why the hell nintendo would get into the trouble of developing such a convoluted solution that would require two devices.
And before anyone mentions the splatoon headset: no, even though that was dumb and did in fact require two devices, it at the very least was a solution to a problem that didn't make another product by the same company unnecessary.
If nintendo were to make a switch lite with video output, even if the solution was bad or mediocre, they would still lose customers for the more expensive (and probably more profitable) platform as people would just buy the switch lite (drake) and stream the video to a television/monitor or, buy a dock and HDMI cable separately.
Amazing video analysis. I honestly was 100% convinced it was pre-rendered...
But that was a single product, two devices (tablet + console). I don't think nintendo would make a convoluted streaming solution involving two different products/devices.
It also doesn't make sense to stream it to a tegra X1 switch when they could just sell you a dock for the lite model and have a simple hardware solution instead of relying on a more complicated (and inferior) software one.
LukasManak22
who the fuck is that
I don't know why he says that TOTK trailer had "not actual gameplay" tag, when there is nothing like that there, it just says "footage not final" so I have no idea why he compares this to Pikmin lol
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
Nvidia doc links expire after a time, so yours is the same
The L4T code has references to the Audio Processing Engine in T239, which I believe is this core
Foltzie
Uncle Muji
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In that configuration? Zero.
Maybe a future dock will have Miracast like functionality to simulate Wii U asymmetric gameplay, but that’s a lot of work for software that has to run on the handheld profile.
RennanNT
Bob-omb
Which is why I made the second question.
It doesn't requires 2 devices, OG would be just an option if you have one and want to have multiple Switches in the household (one of the reasons they made a lower entry point).
Their most profitable is the V2 and even knowing that, they released the Lite and OLED which for sure got some customers who would have bought V2 otherwise but also people who wouldn't. and they likely profited more from the extra sales than they lost from the cannibalisation.
Not mention that they could markup the accessory (be it a USB or wireless dock) to make Lite+TV be more profitable than the main system.
In any case, I'm more interested in the technical viability than the likelihood of them doing it, which is low and why I started with "to entertain the idea".
that's my point, it was a failure and an expensive one at that. keeping the latency down to stream from the master to the slave device had nintendo and broadcom make a new setup for that. the idea was tested and failed
RennanNT
Bob-omb
I'm not talking about Asymmetric gameplay at all. I'm asking the viability (in tech and whether it increases too much the price) of a Drake Lite which streams locally to a device which can already play cloud games in ideal network setups.
Think of Remote Play between PS4 and Vita, but it's the handheld the one streaming, with 10 years of technology advancement and the handheld being stronger than the PS4.
I would love the succesor to bring the Assymetric gameplay as a low key gimmick/feature for the console. Kind of miss that from the Wii U, and problaly with the new success developers could bring new ideas.
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