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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
- Start date
Gotdatmoneyy
Boo
It looks to be the same res as the other 3 games they released on the Switch. So no, not really. Since launch Monolith has not prioritized resolution. Not sure why there is suddenly shock and awe.
Kenka
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I am pretty certain the first combat sequence in the trailer is lower res than anything present in Xenoblade 2. It is truly literally hurting my brain.
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When has Dave ever contributed to this thread?
Guess this has to be quoted again.
Dakhil said:
Disagreeing with other members is a normal and inevitable part of speculation and discussion. But please don't dismiss the opinions of other members when speculating and discussing. And the site rules apply to this thread, such as:
- no trolling
- no sexual and/or objectifying posts
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mariodk18
Install Base Forum Namer
I remember reading some kind of study that the profile pic that a person uses to represent themselves online actually correlated pretty strongly with their actual persona (both online and in real life). If they had a happy, cheerful image, then they were likely pretty upbeat in discussions. And if they had a frustrated or edgy avatar, then they acted pretty similarly online.
Now looking at Dave’s avatar, what do we see? A trolling character who, even though I’m not overly familiar with, I’m pretty sure is known for constantly smirking or laughing at others.
Is it any surprise Dave acts the way he does? He only chimes in to say the equivalent of “NUH-UH!”, usually in a sentence or less. Most everyone else here has an avatar that represents their favorite character or series. People tend to wear their personality on their sleeves, even online.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
Even if a console sells out, it can be a lifetime failure if support/library/launch are not correctly handled to create a multiple year demand. A vendor like Nintendo doesn't have a second console to pad out a failed console. The relative slow churn of the market delays their ability to enter with a new product by several years. Burn third parties leave the console, the library diminishes. A few years of poor sales on key franchises reduces their evergreen potential as young games don't grow up with them, and older gamers get used to "skipping" an entry or two
A graphics card can be hotly desired, sell out, turn out to have been a bad idea architecturally, totally get shitcanned, and the PC space and it's whole library will continue to exist. The division in power and price tiers allows multiple products on the market simultaneously to buffer individual successes and failures within a fiscal year. The rapid churn of the environment allows new devices to be brought to market quickly and bad lines to be abandoned or rejiggered as budget devices or specialized chips.
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To be clear nothing in this trailer sticks out as awful looking to me from my phone, but that’s the case with any trailer on this screen. I’m mostly upset about a hypothetical right now, albeit a very likely one. this team will never prioritize close to native resolution, and I don’t see why a more ambitious game would be an exception.
If we get reports that the game actually does run closer to 900-1080p docked and 720p handheld (via FSR 2.0 or whatnot) I’ll be there. But that almost certainly won’t be the case.
I’ve got Live A Live, Advance Wars, Triangle Strategy and 13 Sentinels that’ll hold my attention for now. None of them will suffer so much from Switch’s hardware
Look over there
Bob-omb
And what oldpuck writes to answer my question is in turn a constructive response.
To be clear/be on the same page, what you're describing is a concern that's more generalized than this specific instance of console hardware, yes? Not to imply anything regarding the state of support/library/launch of Drake specifically.
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Fair enough. I wasn’t planning to pursue further anyway.
While interesting, I think it’s best we drop it and live with the constant drive-by posts.
Crusters
Koopa
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I don't know (or remember, most likely I can't remember right now) about any Dave, but I literally assume you all actually are your avatars. The whole wario thing has been very confusing.
However, I don't fly around and shit on cars.
But that's only because I can't. My wings busted.
ANYWAYS.
Yo Nate! How's that thing you waiting on to be extra sure about before going public going?
NateDrake
Chain Chomp
When I have what I need, you'll know.
Crusters
Koopa
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Shoot, had I known you were going to actually respond to the most pathetic attempt at a segue ever I would have asked you something important. Like how you feel about pineapples on pizza. Or mushrooms. Oh God shrooms. It's a fungus man.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
Yes, just trying to answer your question directly. But to riff a little bit/a lot...
I am very confident that Nintendo intended to launch a New Switch in fall of this year, that they contracted 3rd parties to build launch games for the device, and that those third parties had not received a change in the launch schedule of fall of last year. I think to look at the set of facts on the ground and come away with a radically different theory is at best an unconvincing interpretation of the data.
I have very little confidence that I know Nintendo's plan now, what 3rd parties are currently being told, or the eventual launch timing of the device. I'm just shooting in the dark like everyone else who isn't an actual journalist or insider. The general assumption seems to be that Nintendo's plans have changed, which I think is probably true but even that is still guessing. Maybe they haven't at all!
I am modestly confident that if Nintendo's plans have shifted, they are not primarily driven by consumer demand for the Classic Switch. Nintendo was telling Devs that there as a 2022 launch date as recently as ~6 months ago. Have the sales of fiscal 2021 been so far beyond Nintendos expectation that they would change direction now? I don't buy it. I do buy that if Nintendo is pushed to delay the revision, that the sales of the Current Switch make that decision much easier.
I do believe that any number of hardware, software, or political issues could delay the device. I am mixed on the effect of the chip shortage being a driver - I think the writing was on the wall a while ago, and Nintendo was telling partners 6 months ago that they were on schedule. But it isn't inconceivable to me that Nintendo saw a chance of making it and didn't want to spook partners.
I am only modestly confident that Drake is the revision. Occam's razor suggests it is, but I don't think folks who say "Drake looks like a successor, and I don't see how they cram that thing into a Switch case, perhaps there is a revision that is more modest out there and the two devices are being mixed up, like the OLED" are mad conspiracy theorists. It would neatly explain why Drake seems almost untenably beefy, but again, I'm modestly confident that it's just one device. Modestly.
These are my prior assumptions when talking about The Next Nintendo Thingy. I realize this is a deep tangent from your original post, but I get frustrated when people confuse fact for analysis, and analysis for predictions.
Dmax3901
Octorok
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What bothers me about people who consistently come after Nate is that he's very clearly not like other insiders who are perhaps more deserving of suspicion and derision. There was that one dude who always was like ah yes I know things but never gave any specifics, whereas Nate has proven himself countless times and whenever he has been wrong he's always been upfront about why that is.
He clearly has more investigative skills and integrity than your average twitter insider and anyone claiming otherwise just isn't paying attention.
(this post is far too positive... ummm... your avatar is lame Nate!)
He clearly has more investigative skills and integrity than your average twitter insider and anyone claiming otherwise just isn't paying attention.
(this post is far too positive... ummm... your avatar is lame Nate!)
Gotdatmoneyy
Boo
Didn't look any lower res than Torna or Future Connected to me. I'll wait for the tech analysis but I am not expecting there to suddenly be a bigger than normal drop in image quality and nothing I have seen thus far suggests it.
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I think some of the ARM doom and gloom is over-blown, to be perfectly honest. We’re in for at least 2 more hardware cycles of Nvidia SoCs (Drake and what comes next) which I fully expect to continue to feature ARM CPUs.
RaymondBryce
Octorok
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He's spoken again about dev kits this year. His mistake was assuming that the device his developer contacts told him about and the device his Samsung contacts told him about were one and the same.
When I said "minor" doubts I really meant it, at least in the near to mid term. ARM is at a critical point where a bad move or series of bad moves could clear the path for RISC-V to take over long term, but it's still a very hypothetical future risk.
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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RE: Xeno 3
I urge everyone to give a look to the JP trailer at 1080p60. Due to the fact it was rendered at 60 FPS, Youtube doesn't compress the shit out of the video. It isn't as low-res as the NoA/US trailer make it looks.
I urge everyone to give a look to the JP trailer at 1080p60. Due to the fact it was rendered at 60 FPS, Youtube doesn't compress the shit out of the video. It isn't as low-res as the NoA/US trailer make it looks.
Foltzie
Uncle Muji
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You build up enough initial stock to allow for decent sales numbers for the product launch but that’s time measured in months at most.
not that much better. still looking pretty soft
D
Deleted member 1324
Guest
You really think it looks bad? The lighting and shading model look better quality to me, with more characters on screen with higher resolutions and more stable framerates during combat to me. I don’t think there’s anything major to take from it other than it’s probably running in a PC environment or the new console devkit but it won’t obviously be out in time for the games release.
10k
Nintendo Switch RTX
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Persona confirmed for Switch, folks.
Illattraction
Rattata
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Apologies everyone for derailing the thread but what's up with everyone using the same Wario avatar lol
Ugh.. it's a standard avatar haha
Ugh.. it's a standard avatar haha
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Xenoblade 2 and Torna in docked mode have been great experiences for me. It's 720p, but they did an amazing job. I have no complaijts with framerate either. Must be the temporal anti aliasing. XBDE though, I can't say the same. Some areas are good, but a lot, like open fields (especially the beginning) on Bionis is bad. I got used to it, but it's a downgrade from xb2.
This xenoblade games on switch are meant for docked. Don't even bother with handled resolution.
Tentacle-tropes
Kremling
As someone who played all the Xenos games in handheld. I would say let people experience it however they like since they may not have the ability or time to play docked only.
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I beat XC2 and Torna when each of them launched, I know what they looked like as well, and I'm still not that happy with that moving forward. But yes, DE further soured my view on their efforts. I thought for certain that due to it being a Wii port they'd have nailed native resolution, but the end product was a bit shit to me.
Also, I don't subscribe to the idea that games are 'meant for docked / handheld'. The Switch is a hybrid - a game not being good in handheld mode is a perfectly valid reason to be pissy
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Mmm, are you sure it was this year?
BlueManifest
Bob-omb
OP
OP
I think the last time Takashi Mochizuki talked about devkits was more than half a year ago on 29 September 2021.
Nvidia R&D Chief on How AI is Improving Chip Design
Getting a glimpse into Nvidia’s R&D has become a regular feature of the spring GTC conference with Bill Dally, chief scientist and senior vice president of research, providing an overview of Nvidia’s R&D organization and a few details on current priorities. This year, Dally focused mostly on AI...
www.hpcwire.com
Kenka
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At 0:38, I had to check my YouTube settings because I was certain the content was delivered at 480p. The battle sequence was just too blurry.
And while image quality was thoroughly bad, the graphics were indeed a huge step up from XB2, i agree. My theory is that the visuals were designed with a better hardware in mind. They look mediocre on Switch but am certain they would shine on a Pro. The lighting, landscapes and monster models are all noticeably better.
I except a Pro to be announced fairly close to its release barring no delays. I can't wait to see the results.
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Tentacle-tropes
Kremling
Why are we back on the “it must be on better hardware” theory and why would Nintendo announce a Pro closer to its release if it supposedly comping out at the end of 2022?
Kenka
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The results are frankly bad to me, so yes I am on that wagon now.
I am a XB fan and I will buy the game regardless but I think we are past a threshold when it comes to IQ. It's not all negative though, if a Pro does come out, XB would be the kind of game that would push me to buy it.
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Zedark
The guy with the ToV avatar
@Kenka I can see where you're coming from, that specific scene is quite blurry. Other scenes are much less blurry than that one, so I'm curious what's going on (the only real difference in the scene compared with other scenes is the waving grass). If this is a deal-breaker, then you should most definitely wait for the DF analysis for a full breakdown to see if this is a common occurrence. One alternative explanation to low base resolution (this is just a guess from my part, mind you) is that they went quite wild on the motion blur, and the waving grass might partake in that, leading to a scene full of motion blur. Edit: For example at 1:34, you can see that the game does indeed have strong motion blur, with the tail of the monster at that point being fully 'unblurred' and then becoming significantly blurred when it starts to move.
Regarding the Pro, though, it doesn't make sense to me that Nintendo would pull forward a game that is supposedly meant to be the Pro showcase game in order to fill a gap in their line-up by use of an unoptimised base Switch version. They could probably have found something else to fill that gap (Advance Wars Rebootcamp comes to mind), or else have left July open.
Regarding the Pro, though, it doesn't make sense to me that Nintendo would pull forward a game that is supposedly meant to be the Pro showcase game in order to fill a gap in their line-up by use of an unoptimised base Switch version. They could probably have found something else to fill that gap (Advance Wars Rebootcamp comes to mind), or else have left July open.
Kenka
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I assume this scene is not isolated because if it is, why would you showcase it then?
Occam's razor tells us that it is representative.
Excellent catch. I don't know the costs of this post-processing effects but there are a lot of them. Their abundance definitely contribute to the impression that the visuals were meant to be a big leap over XB2, I suppose you are right and that is what pushes the resolution so low to begin with.
It does if the Pro is geared towards enthusiasts. Xeno is definitely an enthusiast game.
My two-penny theory is that the Pro was meant to launch in the summer from the get go and that Nintendo decided to bring XB3 forward to give more time to the Splatoon team to polish their game.
Whatever the cause, I expect the Pro to launch around XB3 launch. If it doesn't, then it's definitely a bummer because on my 65'' screen, the combats will barely be legible. It is not a provocation, mind you. I am serious.
LiC
Member
Lol at trying to analyze compressed trailer footage to determine graphical fidelity in the first place. Let alone believing it's cause for yet another round of "game footage clearly running on the current Switch somehow has implications for future Switch hardware" foolishness.
When fine details (like grass) move a lot between frames, it kills video encoding quality. Look how bad the artifacting is here! You can almost see the macroblocks in the hair.
Kenka
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Is this snarky comment about me? If yes, then let me rephrase my thoughts : Xenoblade 3 combat scenes look bad on a 65'' 4K display, period. This is the worst IQ I have seen in recent years.
Yes, being it that bad is what convinced me that a Pro should launch soon. No, you won't make me change my mind. And to be honest, I expected better from you.
It is a good point (it truly is) but even the the rock textures are fairly low. Does the encoding quality decreases evenly across the image even when the problematic parts occupy a portion of it?When fine details (like grass) move a lot between frames, it kills video encoding quality. Look how bad the artifacting is here! You can almost see the macroblocks in the hair.
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Zedark
The guy with the ToV avatar
Yes indeed, thank you. That's an important point for sure. To illustrate it, here's a BOTW trailer (@Kenka). Have a look at the 1:49 and notice the blurriness:Lol at trying to analyze compressed trailer footage to determine graphical fidelity in the first place. Let alone believing it's cause for yet another round of "game footage clearly running on the current Switch somehow has implications for future Switch hardware" foolishness.
When fine details (like grass) move a lot between frames, it kills video encoding quality. Look how bad the artifacting is here! You can almost see the macroblocks in the hair.
In that particular scene, you have the same problem as with the scene in question for XBC3: there is a lot of moving vegetation, and the scene looks distinctly blurrier than the ones before and after it. We know it is not due to the game, since it renders at an acceptable 900p resolution (although this is older footage, so perhaps WiiU at 720p?). Regardless: the trailer footage is blurrier in that instance than in the rest of the trailer, so that could further corroborate this point of the impact of vegetation on encoding quality.
mariodk18
Install Base Forum Namer
I feel like specific complaints directed at XB3 should be in the main game thread or the recent trailer thread. Otherwise the topic will go off on a tangent about that specific game’s IQ. Besides, the game footage is still prerelease, so it doesn’t necessarily represent the final product. Optimization is done in the final stages before launch.
LiC
Member
It wasn't a comment directed at anyone in particular. For the bolded part -- I have no problem with saying a new model should launch soon because, in one's own opinion, the Switch's graphical fidelity is too far behind and needs upgrading. But people keep using trailers to argue that the footage doesn't look meant for the current Switch so something new must be launching soon in order to run them, and that's what I think is silly, whether it's M+R2 or BotW 2 or XBC3.
Video encoding is all a continuous compromise to reach a certain file compression ratio while averaging out the quality across multiple frames. So the quality could absolutely be uneven on a given frame. I'm not saying if something is blurry or low-quality it has to be because of compression, but I'm saying it muddies the waters enough that it makes analysis dubious.
daase ko
Octorok
I don't see much differences except it's not exactly the same footage.
At 0.38, the characters are placed differently.
S
snikdasnek
Guest
I swear it feels like the OLED and the merry go round from 2021 mindbroke everyone sometimesThis is what it feels like in the community sometimes
I think it is just the tired AF Switch Pro discussions since 2018... Yes, a new better hardware will release at one point and the people who have predicted that (everyone) will win, but people need to chill, I mean if someone has an 4K 80'' screen... maybe get the right home consoles to get the amazing visuals that you need, not the tiny hybrid Switch... chances are that you will not be happy with the revision too
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The 2018 rumors were not the same rumors and not about the same potential product as the 2020 rumors... I don't understand why some people simply can't accept that some of us enjoy discussing rumors as they pop up and understand that each one is nuanced and different, and not all lumped together as one single "Switch pro rumor".I think it is just the tired AF Switch Pro discussions since 2018... Yes, a new better hardware will release at one point and the people who have predicted that (everyone) will win, but people need to chill, I mean if someone has an 4K 80'' screen... maybe get the right home consoles to get the amazing visuals that you need, not the tiny hybrid Switch... chances are that you will not be happy with the revision too
The problem tends to be that the people who get tired of these rumors don't actually pay enough attention to them to understand what they're saying.
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