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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Hermii said:
Haha, I hoped it meant 8 sm :p
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I don't know much about GPUs so I'm not going to speculate at the moment. But I will say that for someone who knows about GPUs and CUDA specifically, there is definitely some information beyond "Drake exists and uses Ampere" in this leak.
 
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Dakhil said:


I won't be able to summarise what NateDrake and MVG said right away since I'm starting my first day of work tomorrow after job searching for more than a year.
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So I'm listening to this older podcast contained in this tweet since I missed it, and Nate said that while initially he received information suggesting that this was being positioned as a Game Boy Color or New 3DS type revision, he can no longer say that's accurate based on new information he's received.

Meaning....Switch 2, basically. The timing may not make sense if it's coming out this year or early 2023, but it would add up with the reports of all these exclusive Dane (or Drake) games being developed.
 
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Sol said:
So I'm listening to this older podcast contained in this tweet since I missed it, and Nate said that while initially he received information suggesting that this was being positioned as a Game Boy Color or New 3DS type revision, he can no longer say that's accurate based on new information he's received.

Meaning....Switch 2, basically. The timing may not make since if it's coming out this year or early 2023, but it would add up with the reports of all these exclusive Dane (or Drake) games being developed.
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Well, no one knows 100% for certain how Nintendo's going to market the new hardware. But Shuntaro Furukawa seems to imply the new hardware's being treated as an iterative successor based on the answer for question #4 during the Q&A session for the fiscal year ending on March 2022, especially with the emphasis of maintaining and expanding the nearly 100 million annual playing users.
Anyway, @Z0m3le released a YouTube video recently talking about what was discovered today for anyone who wants to check out.
 
Sol said:
So I'm listening to this older podcast contained in this tweet since I missed it, and Nate said that while initially he received information suggesting that this was being positioned as a Game Boy Color or New 3DS type revision, he can no longer say that's accurate based on new information he's received.

Meaning....Switch 2, basically. The timing may not make sense if it's coming out this year or early 2023, but it would add up with the reports of all these exclusive Dane (or Drake) games being developed.
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Nah all he's saying is that he doesn't know if it'll be a new 3DS style revision anymore. That's all.

If he had heard it is planned to be a new gen he would've outright said that.
 
Sol said:
So I'm listening to this older podcast contained in this tweet since I missed it, and Nate said that while initially he received information suggesting that this was being positioned as a Game Boy Color or New 3DS type revision, he can no longer say that's accurate based on new information he's received.

Meaning....Switch 2, basically. The timing may not make sense if it's coming out this year or early 2023, but it would add up with the reports of all these exclusive Dane (or Drake) games being developed.
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How does the timing not make sense? 5-6 years is the normal length between launches of new generations of Nintendo hardware and Switch turns 5 this month.
 
Dakhil said:
Square Enix's excuse of not having enough storage capacity for not bringing native versions of Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 + 2.5 Remix to the Nintendo Switch is complete bullshit, considering that 2K has no problems releasing NBA 2K22 to the Nintendo Switch and requiring a microSD card to be installed, considering NBA 2K22's file size is 47.1 GB.
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Oh, come on now... I agree with you. Hello? MicroSD exists for a reason, I understand the Cloud version for KHIII but releasing Cloud version for the other games was horrible and they perform terribly.
Dakhil said:
Well, no one knows 100% for certain how Nintendo's going to market the new hardware. But Shuntaro Furukawa seems to imply the new hardware's being treated as an iterative successor based on the answer for question #4 during the Q&A session for the fiscal year ending on March 2022, especially with the emphasis of maintaining and expanding the nearly 100 million annual playing users.
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It would be weird that Nintendo didn't try to hold on to the Switch's massive player base, and also I can't imagine them putting all that effort on the Switch as a legacy library for it to go down the drain that fast. Iterative makes sense to take advantage of the foundation already laid down
 
Akoig said:
MicroSD exists for a reason, I understand the Cloud version for KHIII but releasing Cloud version for the other games was horrible and they perform terribly.
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The reason I didn't mention Kingdom Hearts HD 2.8 Final Chapter Prologue is because that contains Kingdom Hearts 0.2: Birth by Sleep – A Fragmentary Passage, which I believe runs on Unreal Engine 4, similar to Kingdom Hearts 3.
 
Hey everyone, been lurking the hardware thread since its existence on the previous board and have made it a habit to catch up on the latest replies multiple times a day, decided to join the community in light of the recent news.

The Nvidia leaks confirming much of what the insiders both on this board and elsewhere is really exciting news. Now with the leak also confirming its an Orin derivative and sister chip I wonder how close the new hardware will match the Orin NX product?

www.nvidia.com

NVIDIA Jetson Orin

Next-level AI performance for next-gen robotics.
www.nvidia.com

With the removal of some of the redundant camera and safety hardware needed for driverless cars I wonder if they can get the 10w mode down to something more suitable for a switch in handheld, then operate full clocks at 25w for docked if Nintendo wants to push docked performance?

Interestingly Orin NX also supports an NVME drive, curious if Nintendo will adopt this or not.

Just want to say thanks to everyone in the thread too, really enjoyed following it here and in the old place for what seems to be years now.
 
Dakhil said:
I won't be able to summarise what NateDrake and MVG said right away since I'm starting my first day of work tomorrow after job searching for more than a year.
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Nvidia leakers:
Here's confirmation of DLSS Switch existing

Dakhil:
Alright my work here is finally done, time for a new job ✌️

Seriously though dude, congratulations and good luck!
 
I don't know if this is known/relevant, but despite being called a separate architecture, Ada is defined as SM89 which makes it makes it the same GPU generation (8) as Ampere.

Other random things, there are a few references to T239D in addition to T239. And there's one place where the SM88/Drake impl is called GA10d instead of GA10F, but that could just be a typo since there are many many references to GA10F.
 
LiC said:
I don't know if this is known/relevant, but despite being called a separate architecture, Ada is defined as SM89 which makes it makes it the same GPU generation (8) as Ampere.
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Speaking of which, out of historical curiosity, was the Maxwell->Pascal relationship the same/similar? That is, Pascal gets called a separate architecture, but is internally defined as the same generation as Maxwell?
 
Quoted by: LiC
1
I think Drake's GPU uses the Ampere architecture as the foundation, and borrows features from the Lovelace architecture (e.g. AV1 encoding, etc.), which I believe is similar to how the Tegra X1's GPU uses the Maxwell architecture as the foundation, and borrows features from the Pascal architecture (e.g. FP16, etc.).
 
Look over there said:
Speaking of which, out of historical curiosity, was the Maxwell->Pascal relationship the same/similar? That is, Pascal gets called a separate architecture, but is internally defined as the same generation as Maxwell?
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Nope, Maxwell is generation 5 and Pascal is 6.

(official Nvidia link)

Of course, they could have decided to do things a little differently with the generations since then.
 
ShaunSwitch said:
Hey everyone, been lurking the hardware thread since its existence on the previous board and have made it a habit to catch up on the latest replies multiple times a day, decided to join the community in light of the recent news.

The Nvidia leaks confirming much of what the insiders both on this board and elsewhere is really exciting news. Now with the leak also confirming its an Orin derivative and sister chip I wonder how close the new hardware will match the Orin NX product?

www.nvidia.com

NVIDIA Jetson Orin

Next-level AI performance for next-gen robotics.
www.nvidia.com

With the removal of some of the redundant camera and safety hardware needed for driverless cars I wonder if they can get the 10w mode down to something more suitable for a switch in handheld, then operate full clocks at 25w for docked if Nintendo wants to push docked performance?

Interestingly Orin NX also supports an NVME drive, curious if Nintendo will adopt this or not.

Just want to say thanks to everyone in the thread too, really enjoyed following it here and in the old place for what seems to be years now.
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well I don't think anything is set in stone
It could use any and every feature set of Orin or none of them at all

TX1 could do a bunch of stuff and the switch just doesn't use half of the features that chip could do. (Specifically being limited to 1080p output as an example)
 
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LiC said:
Nope, Maxwell is generation 5 and Pascal is 6.

(official Nvidia link)

Of course, they could have decided to do things a little differently with the generations since then.
Click to expand...

So then the expectation for the differences between Ampere and Ada in general would probably be along the lines of 'more stuff to cram in due to node difference, maybe readjustment of how a SM is balanced internally, maybe cache adjustments, maybe other hardware side improvements, but nothing new from software/featureset side'?

Edit: Oh yea, there's AV1 encode, but I guess I consider NVENC update to be more 'hardware' side than 'software'?
 
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LiC said:
I don't know if this is known/relevant, but despite being called a separate architecture, Ada is defined as SM89 which makes it makes it the same GPU generation (8) as Ampere.

Other random things, there are a few references to T239D in addition to T239. And there's one place where the SM88/Drake impl is called GA10d instead of GA10F, but that could just be a typo since there are many many references to GA10F.
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Where are you seeing that btw?
 
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kimbo99 said:
Doctre chimed in. Mentions a job listing for Nvidia senior engineer for Tegra Solutions
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Already mentioned in the OP.
Anyway, I don't know how I feel about this.
videocardz.com

Hackers now demand NVIDIA should make their drivers open source or they leak more data - VideoCardz.com

NVIDIA in even bigger trouble Hackers that infiltrated NVIDIA systems are now threatening to release more confidential information unless the company commits to open sourcing their drivers. Following (now) multiple reports of the ransom cyber attack on NVIDIA servers, the hacking group LAPSUS$...
videocardz.com videocardz.com
 
What drives me insane about the whole speculation is that even if this new successor still set for release in 2023 April-onwards, it couldn't really be advertised as a Pro revision of the console and would most certainly be considered a successor after 6(!) years. Aren't potential successor SoCs that would build off of whatever this DLSS model could be releasing in like 2025 anyways? Why even release a new console at all if it's not before March 2023 when some newly matured tech would be far more viable in such a short period of time?

Not sure if this line of thinking even makes any sense (or if I'm horribly misconstruing points people have made here), but it's why I'm clinging to an announcement before the end of the year or we're not getting anything at all. Releasing a new console in late 2023 when new SoCs are around the corner from there just doesn't seem to add up.
 
Brofield said:
What drives me insane about the whole speculation is that even if this new successor still set for release in 2023 April-onwards, it couldn't really be advertised as a Pro revision of the console and would most certainly be considered a successor after 6(!) years. Aren't potential successor SoCs that would build off of whatever this DLSS model could be releasing in like 2025 anyways? Why even release a new console at all if it's not before March 2023 when some newly matured tech would be far more viable in such a short period of time?

Not sure if this line of thinking even makes any sense (or if I'm horribly misconstruing points people have made here), but it's why I'm clinging to an announcement before the end of the year or we're not getting anything at all. Releasing a new console in late 2023 when new SoCs are around the corner from there just doesn't seem to add up.
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For starters, the current word is late 2022. And it's definitely not going to be a traditional successor, if it even is a successor.

The idea that "it's too late for a pro" makes no sense to me. Switch is still selling out, the pandemic has greatly prolonged its lifespan. Regardless of whether or not this always was the plan or reasoning, an iterative upgrade makes perfect sense to happen some time within the next year or so.

The main hitch in the idea is the fact that they just released the OLED last October.
 
Brofield said:
Why even release a new console at all if it's not before March 2023 when some newly matured tech would be far more viable in such a short period of time?
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there's always better tech coming. why did the PS5 and Series release with their Zen 2 processors when they could have waited for Zen 3?
 
Skittzo said:
For starters, the current word is late 2022. And it's definitely not going to be a traditional successor, if it even is a successor.

The idea that "it's too late for a pro" makes no sense to me. Switch is still selling out, the pandemic has greatly prolonged its lifespan. Regardless of whether or not this always was the plan or reasoning, an iterative upgrade makes perfect sense to happen some time within the next year or so.

The main hitch in the idea is the fact that they just released the OLED last October.
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I absolutely agree; it's why I have such a hard time wrapping my head around arguments that posit this successor couldn't come out before late 2022/early 2023.

It may not be the iPhone's annual release of new hardware but I could absolutely see it coming out every five years or so, games that are developed to support two generations of Switch at a time until the oldest models are phased out

ILikeFeet said:
there's always better tech coming. why did the PS5 and Series release with their Zen 2 processors when they could have waited for Zen 3?
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Truly don't know, and honestly something I would wonder too. It seems AMD releases these Zen chipsets every year or every other year. The Nvidia SoC that people reference, I was under the impression come out every 7 or 8 years, do they not?
 
Dakhil said:
Already mentioned in the OP.
Anyway, I don't know how I feel about this.
videocardz.com

Hackers now demand NVIDIA should make their drivers open source or they leak more data - VideoCardz.com

NVIDIA in even bigger trouble Hackers that infiltrated NVIDIA systems are now threatening to release more confidential information unless the company commits to open sourcing their drivers. Following (now) multiple reports of the ransom cyber attack on NVIDIA servers, the hacking group LAPSUS$...
videocardz.com videocardz.com
Click to expand...

My fault man. And btw congrats on the job 👍🏿
 
Dakhil said:
Anyway, I don't know how I feel about this.
videocardz.com

Hackers now demand NVIDIA should make their drivers open source or they leak more data - VideoCardz.com

NVIDIA in even bigger trouble Hackers that infiltrated NVIDIA systems are now threatening to release more confidential information unless the company commits to open sourcing their drivers. Following (now) multiple reports of the ransom cyber attack on NVIDIA servers, the hacking group LAPSUS$...
videocardz.com videocardz.com
Click to expand...
Lapsus-Ransom-NVIDIA.png
 
Dakhil said:
Lapsus-Ransom-NVIDIA.png
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This is pointless publicity stunting. Nvidia wouldn't buy these guys a coffee if that's what they were asking for. Paying a ransom is just an invitation for more people to try to hack and extort you in the future. Never ceases to amaze me how dumb and immature these black hat groups are despite being sophisticated enough to get the hacks done in the first place.
 
Skittzo said:
The idea that "it's too late for a pro" makes no sense to me. Switch is still selling out, the pandemic has greatly prolonged its lifespan. Regardless of whether or not this always was the plan or reasoning, an iterative upgrade makes perfect sense to happen some time within the next year or so.
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To me the bigger thing is that the hardware seems completely different. If TX1 had been shoved into a 3DS form factor and called "Newest 3DS" in 2017, that'd be damn weird as a pro model, too.
 
LiC said:
This is pointless publicity stunting. Nvidia wouldn't buy these guys a coffee if that's what they were asking for. Paying a ransom is just an invitation for more people to try to hack and extort you in the future. Never ceases to amaze me how dumb and immature these black hat groups are despite being sophisticated enough to get the hacks done in the first place.
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People are actually celebrating this and acting like this is going to persuade Nvidia to be more open source, when I think the complete opposite's going to happen, especially since the information was obtained illegally.

I can sympathise with people who genuinely want Nvidia to be more open source. But I don't sympathise with people who are willing to resort to illegal blackmail in an attempt to persuade Nvidia to be more open source.

Basically, I don't wish illegal hacking and/or theft upon anyone.
Saying that, I wonder how much more information is going to be unveiled about Drake on Friday, assuming Nvidia's not going to capitulate to the hacker's demands.
 
Brofield said:
What drives me insane about the whole speculation is that even if this new successor still set for release in 2023 April-onwards, it couldn't really be advertised as a Pro revision of the console and would most certainly be considered a successor after 6(!) years. Aren't potential successor SoCs that would build off of whatever this DLSS model could be releasing in like 2025 anyways? Why even release a new console at all if it's not before March 2023 when some newly matured tech would be far more viable in such a short period of time?
Click to expand...
Don't think about "revision" or "successor" think about "cross-gen support" as a spectrum.

On one end of the spectrum, all games released going forward run on both devices, and when support stops for the Old Switch it stops for the Nu Switch at the same time (close to New 3DS, or DSi level revision).

On the other end of the spectrum, there are a few cross-gen games, but they are different versions that you have to buy seperately, and all first party dev moves to the "new" machine (the WiiU).

There are lots of options in between. Like, for example, lots of cross-gen games for a few years, but eventually all games are exclusive to the Nu Switch which slowly takes over for a "generation" that runs like 12 years - the Game Boy Color model.

Lots of folk saying "Successor" or "revision" is a marketing term, but if the device is backwards compatible, then it's as much about "how does first party support shift" which is a decision that Nintendo can change* after the launch of the device.

*I recognize that it is really hard to turn that ship, just that Nintendo can retool if things go wrong. Just as they kept 3DS on life support until they were sure Switch took off, or GBA until the DS was solid
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
To me the bigger thing is that the hardware seems completely different. If TX1 had been shoved into a 3DS form factor and called "Newest 3DS" in 2017, that'd be damn weird as a pro model, too.
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That's true but then again the nature of hardware/software ecosystems has changed drastically in the past decade.
 
I'm very pro-open source but I do not approve of tactics like these. Just like with my leftist ideological leanings, I can only agree with them if they're handled the right way. Clearly, this is not.
 
NVN2 has added lots of documentation relating to ray tracing, so that's confirmed for the next model, as well as relating to DLSS. You know, just in case anybody was still wondering whether that's confirmed.
 
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