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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Software only works if the hardware is ready to do so. Playing devil's advocate here, maybe there really has been issues on the hardware front that Nintendo wants to solve prior to launch? Maybe they're STILL working on how much Ram to use, or internal storage even, and continue to receive feedback from other developers on their thoughts relating to the hardware...which would also relate towards software.
Hardware is only enjoyed if there's software for it.

If the stars of the Switch 2 launch lineup isn't ready, it's understandable why Nintendo would delay.

I'm not sure there is any evidence of delay being hardware related, but to be fair, there's not any real evidence of this being software related either, other than to say that seems to be the general vibe going on (delay is software related)
Maybe it's a mix of both? Who knows?

EDIT: Just to add a small bit to this, maybe there's been issues regarding cross-gen titles for Switch 1 and Switch 2? Maybe it isn't so straight forward to design a game for two different systems, and it's showing?
Development on Switch 2 would probably be a bit of a learning curve for dev studios used to working with Switch 1 hardware. Not sure I would term that as "issue", except only to say it could be an issue with launch timing, sure. By the way, this scenario would make the delay software-related.
 
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Unity has virtualized geometry (think nanite) and mobile ray tracing

in the chinese version




some of these aren't a surprise, at least to me, as Unity China talked about including some of these features in the past (and I think I posted about that here before)
 
I have to work on my tone. Sorry.
I’m in that same boat, so no worries at all. It’s something I struggle with and am constantly trying to work on (and I fail at it a lot!) For what it’s worth, I didn’t (and don’t) believe you were trying to be mean or had any malicious intent. In fact, I’m sure it was quite the opposite, that you were just trying to be helpful and informative, and I whiffed on seeing it through the lens because I didn’t consider what the full context of your replies may have been.

Anyway, if you celebrate, I hope you have a great Pokémon Day, and if not, just a regular old great day. 😀
 
With the Sony news I do wonder if Switch 2 might be pricey and they want a line up to make that worthwhile.
How pricey is "pricey" exactly? Pretty much all of us are expecting a $400 price point, which, while definitely a lurch from the $300 of the original Switch, is a good deal lower than the $500 PS5 and Xbox Series X, and will be significantly lower than a potential $600+ PS5 Pro. The only device that'll really be competing in that area is the Xbox Series S, and to many, the portability, ability to use physical media, and actually having exclusives will be well worth the extra cost.
 
Part of me is bummed out about a year long "delay", but the other part wants Nintendo to full on cancel NSW2 just to see what happens.
 
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How pricey is "pricey" exactly? Pretty much all of us are expecting a $400 price point, which, while definitely a lurch from the $300 of the original Switch, is a good deal lower than the $500 PS5 and Xbox Series X, and will be significantly lower than a potential $600+ PS5 Pro. The only device that'll really be competing in that area is the Xbox Series S, and to many, the portability, ability to use physical media, and actually having exclusives will be well worth the extra cost.
450 I would have gone as on the pricey side but I could see 499 if they assume ongoing higher inflation (this seems set in especially compared to 2010s) and higher interest rates globally (again especially compared to 2010s).
 
How pricey is "pricey" exactly? Pretty much all of us are expecting a $400 price point, which, while definitely a lurch from the $300 of the original Switch, is a good deal lower than the $500 PS5 and Xbox Series X, and will be significantly lower than a potential $600+ PS5 Pro. The only device that'll really be competing in that area is the Xbox Series S, and to many, the portability, ability to use physical media, and actually having exclusives will be well worth the extra cost.
Switch 2 at $400 sounds about right,PS5 Pro won’t be higher than $600, most people expect one SKU for $600 but without disk drive, ofc you will can buy one like with Slim
 
Curious what your thoughts are on why you don't think it's software related.
I've been in the room when major technology projects have needed to announce delays to key partners, and there is just as much PR bullshit there as public announcements.

The move, time and time again, is to focus on what the delay gives you, not what caused the delay. A delay might be multifactorial - lots of stuff not coming together - or it could be one major thing - a mission critical bug. But 80% of the time, the delay cause can only be fixed by a small subset of the people involved.

So you can spin the delay by talking about the stuff it gets you - all the things those people are working on with the extra time in the schedule. Some of which might even be super critical stuff that you were already kinda freaked about cutting from the launch, and you're actually slightly relieved that you can do them now.

If Nintendo has a four month delay, of course they're going to spend that better prepping their launch year. They just about have to, all those software teams need to keep working. There are now reports that the plan is really to shore up manufacturing to prevent scalping. Which, again, it would almost be impossible for that not to happen anyway, when you have extra manufacturing time.

The leaks aren't coming from inside Nintendo, they're coming from publishers who are receiving Nintendo's company line. A line which Nintendo is communicating to wide number of partners, not just the ride-or-dies, a line which Nintendo had to know would leak.

It could be software, it could be hardware. It could be a single major issue, it could be multifactorial. It could be that Nintendo ran the numbers and decided a holiday launch loaded with scalpers was going to be, on net, worse than March launch with the product easy to find.

The one thing I'm convinced of is that Nintendo intentionally kept any info from partners that would cause them to wildly speculate on how Nintendo fucked up. And we're game-of-telephoning that info. So I'm leaving the door open to it being anything.

Unless I'm mistaken, the orig Switch had its launch internally delayed from Summer 2016 to March 2017 because BOTW wasn't ready. Likewise for N64.
This is a slight tangent, but I'm gonna add a quick note here - the broad assumption is that Switch was delayed for Breath of the Wild, but my understanding is that the gigaleak simply says "software." Inside the data-mining community, there is an assumption that "software" actually means the Switch OS. The initial run of Switch hardware was flashed with an OS version that could do little more than "boot game, and if connected to internet, update the OS."

I think this shows how much our perspective influences our view. Most fans would assume launch title when hearing "software delays" was the launch title, but the reverse engineers are so up in the OS that not only do they see things we might not look at, but are going to be biased towards seeing that as the cause.
 
I’ve been seeing discussion in here regarding the switch 2 possibly making use of UFS cards as opposed to micro sd cards, and I wanted to ask something, what is the average price of UFS cards right now on the market? I tried to look it up myself to see how much more expensive they would be to use instead of micro sd and I haven’t been able to find anything regarding them.
 
Which team are you on?

- Team June reveal

- Team September reveal

Of course it could be neither but you’ve got to imagine they’ll reveal it before the seasonal shopping period truly starts. It would also be awkward for them to have a summer direct without mentioning the new hardware whilst also focusing only on Switch.

I’m going with June.
I'm on the "as soon as possible" team.
 
I’ve been seeing discussion in here regarding the switch 2 possibly making use of UFS cards as opposed to micro sd cards, and I wanted to ask something, what is the average price of UFS cards right now on the market? I tried to look it up myself to see how much more expensive they would be to use instead of micro sd and I haven’t been able to find anything regarding them.

Basically none have ever been made for external storage. Samsung sells like... a couple, but they're not sold at competitive prices as no one uses them.
 
The lack of any footage is more suggestive of cross-gen than any wording.

Pokemon Legends with quality lighting and AA would be a generational leap alone.
I have two theories. I think that Legend ZA is a prototype game. Just like Legend Arceus.
What I mean is that it meant to be used to test the engine for Gen 10 on the Switch 2.

That's the first and likely theory. I think they will have multiple if not all regions in gen 10.

I think they are rebuilding Luminose city to not only sell to us now but reuse during gen 10, go save on production time. Same with the Sinnoh region. They can rework hisui into an open world faster than starting from scratch. Same for let's go.
 
I’ve been seeing discussion in here regarding the switch 2 possibly making use of UFS cards as opposed to micro sd cards, and I wanted to ask something, what is the average price of UFS cards right now on the market? I tried to look it up myself to see how much more expensive they would be to use instead of micro sd and I haven’t been able to find anything regarding them.
They basically don't exist. There are several standards that were created for high speed memory cards, but none of them succeeded in the market because phones dropped expansion storage, and the high end camera market went in a different direction. And everything else that needed some kind of expansion storage, microSD is "good enough."

The discussion here is because it might not be "good enough" for Switch 2. It's just slow, and more and more games are taking advantage of fast storage. Nintendo can easily use fast internal storage, and is probably making cartridges fast, but SD cards are still stuck in the past.

Nintendo's options would be 1) Invent a new proprietary card, 2) use an existing standard that didn't catch on, but that manufacturers can easily make, 3) use microSD, but force active games to move to internal storage, 4) use microSD, let players keep active games on it, and when games break, shrug, 5) offer no external storage at all.

Everyone hates all of these options, no one agrees on what we hate least, so the discussion goes round and round.

I'm currently betting on a version of 4.
 
I've been in the room when major technology projects have needed to announce delays to key partners, and there is just as much PR bullshit there as public announcements.

The move, time and time again, is to focus on what the delay gives you, not what caused the delay. A delay might be multifactorial - lots of stuff not coming together - or it could be one major thing - a mission critical bug. But 80% of the time, the delay cause can only be fixed by a small subset of the people involved.

So you can spin the delay by talking about the stuff it gets you - all the things those people are working on with the extra time in the schedule. Some of which might even be super critical stuff that you were already kinda freaked about cutting from the launch, and you're actually slightly relieved that you can do them now.

If Nintendo has a four month delay, of course they're going to spend that better prepping their launch year. They just about have to, all those software teams need to keep working. There are now reports that the plan is really to shore up manufacturing to prevent scalping. Which, again, it would almost be impossible for that not to happen anyway, when you have extra manufacturing time.

The leaks aren't coming from inside Nintendo, they're coming from publishers who are receiving Nintendo's company line. A line which Nintendo is communicating to wide number of partners, not just the ride-or-dies, a line which Nintendo had to know would leak.

It could be software, it could be hardware. It could be a single major issue, it could be multifactorial. It could be that Nintendo ran the numbers and decided a holiday launch loaded with scalpers was going to be, on net, worse than March launch with the product easy to find.

The one thing I'm convinced of is that Nintendo intentionally kept any info from partners that would cause them to wildly speculate on how Nintendo fucked up. And we're game-of-telephoning that info. So I'm leaving the door open to it being anything.


This is a slight tangent, but I'm gonna add a quick note here - the broad assumption is that Switch was delayed for Breath of the Wild, but my understanding is that the gigaleak simply says "software." Inside the data-mining community, there is an assumption that "software" actually means the Switch OS. The initial run of Switch hardware was flashed with an OS version that could do little more than "boot game, and if connected to internet, update the OS."

I think this shows how much our perspective influences our view. Most fans would assume launch title when hearing "software delays" was the launch title, but the reverse engineers are so up in the OS that not only do they see things we might not look at, but are going to be biased towards seeing that as the cause.
What are the most probable hardware issues that could pop up with Switch 2 development. Backwards compatibility? Poor CPU utilization? Battery efficiency/cooling issues? If Nintendo set March 2025 as a "firm" deadline(according to the Atlus leaker), or at least a flexible deadline, the problem can't be majorly serious right?
 
They basically don't exist. There are several standards that were created for high speed memory cards, but none of them succeeded in the market because phones dropped expansion storage, and the high end camera market went in a different direction. And everything else that needed some kind of expansion storage, microSD is "good enough."

The discussion here is because it might not be "good enough" for Switch 2. It's just slow, and more and more games are taking advantage of fast storage. Nintendo can easily use fast internal storage, and is probably making cartridges fast, but SD cards are still stuck in the past.

Nintendo's options would be 1) Invent a new proprietary card, 2) use an existing standard that didn't catch on, but that manufacturers can easily make, 3) use microSD, but force active games to move to internal storage, 4) use microSD, let players keep active games on it, and when games break, shrug, 5) offer no external storage at all.

Everyone hates all of these options, no one agrees on what we hate least, so the discussion goes round and round.

I'm currently betting on a version of 4.
What were the arguments against #2? I get that it might as well be functionally proprietary if no one else is using it, but if it can be easily manufactured, would the consumer cost be that much higher than microSD cards right now?

I mean truthfully, if I have to get a dedicated microSD card for my switch, the highest storage option I'm willing to consider is 512GB because from my understanding those 1TB cards are prone to hairline cracks that'll shortcircuit if not start a fire in our fancy handheld tablets.
 
What are the most probable hardware issues that could pop up with Switch 2 development. Backwards compatibility? Poor CPU utilization? Battery efficiency/cooling issues? If Nintendo set March 2025 as a "firm" deadline(according to the Atlus leaker), or at least a flexible deadline, the problem can't be majorly serious right?
Problem could be serious enough but only needs four months of polish could be software-related as opposed to waiting for laws of physics to change if it were a cooling issue. Couple hundred humanhours could potentially be the difference between 95% backwards compatibility with no boost power to 99.9% backwards compatibility and 60fps for all unlocked framerate games.

I could also be talking out my ass since I don't know hardware/software development.
 
Nintendo's options would be 1) Invent a new proprietary card
PSVita Memory Card Flashbacks

vietnamflashback.gif
 
They basically don't exist. There are several standards that were created for high speed memory cards, but none of them succeeded in the market because phones dropped expansion storage, and the high end camera market went in a different direction. And everything else that needed some kind of expansion storage, microSD is "good enough."

The discussion here is because it might not be "good enough" for Switch 2. It's just slow, and more and more games are taking advantage of fast storage. Nintendo can easily use fast internal storage, and is probably making cartridges fast, but SD cards are still stuck in the past.

Nintendo's options would be 1) Invent a new proprietary card, 2) use an existing standard that didn't catch on, but that manufacturers can easily make, 3) use microSD, but force active games to move to internal storage, 4) use microSD, let players keep active games on it, and when games break, shrug, 5) offer no external storage at all.

Everyone hates all of these options, no one agrees on what we hate least, so the discussion goes round and round.

I'm currently betting on a version of 4.
3) But only games that really need the extra speed are forced to move to internal memory, and other games only show warnings that it may not be the ideal experience.
 
Basically none have ever been made for external storage. Samsung sells like... a couple, but they're not sold at competitive prices as no one uses them.

They basically don't exist. There are several standards that were created for high speed memory cards, but none of them succeeded in the market because phones dropped expansion storage, and the high end camera market went in a different direction. And everything else that needed some kind of expansion storage, microSD is "good enough."

The discussion here is because it might not be "good enough" for Switch 2. It's just slow, and more and more games are taking advantage of fast storage. Nintendo can easily use fast internal storage, and is probably making cartridges fast, but SD cards are still stuck in the past.

Nintendo's options would be 1) Invent a new proprietary card, 2) use an existing standard that didn't catch on, but that manufacturers can easily make, 3) use microSD, but force active games to move to internal storage, 4) use microSD, let players keep active games on it, and when games break, shrug, 5) offer no external storage at all.

Everyone hates all of these options, no one agrees on what we hate least, so the discussion goes round and round.

I'm currently betting on a version of 4.
Ah thanks for information! I was initially super confused about UFS cause I only saw it be talked about with Samsung phones in mind when I looked into them!
 
They basically don't exist. There are several standards that were created for high speed memory cards, but none of them succeeded in the market because phones dropped expansion storage, and the high end camera market went in a different direction. And everything else that needed some kind of expansion storage, microSD is "good enough."

The discussion here is because it might not be "good enough" for Switch 2. It's just slow, and more and more games are taking advantage of fast storage. Nintendo can easily use fast internal storage, and is probably making cartridges fast, but SD cards are still stuck in the past.

Nintendo's options would be 1) Invent a new proprietary card, 2) use an existing standard that didn't catch on, but that manufacturers can easily make, 3) use microSD, but force active games to move to internal storage, 4) use microSD, let players keep active games on it, and when games break, shrug, 5) offer no external storage at all.

Everyone hates all of these options, no one agrees on what we hate least, so the discussion goes round and round.

I'm currently betting on a version of 4.

Sony opted for 4
Microsoft opted for something between 1 and 2 as well as 3

I would hope for 3 over 4.
 
What were the arguments against #2? I get that it might as well be functionally proprietary if no one else is using it, but if it can be easily manufactured, would the consumer cost be that much higher than microSD cards right now?

I mean truthfully, if I have to get a dedicated microSD card for my switch, the highest storage option I'm willing to consider is 512GB because from my understanding those 1TB cards are prone to hairline cracks that'll shortcircuit if not start a fire in our fancy handheld tablets.

The problem is which format?

Cameras use CFexpress Type B which is the closest to being mainstream. Manufacturing can scale up easily. However it is probably too big to fit and large energy consumption. Plus it is very expensive and Nintendo would have to pay a license fee.

Sony Cameras use CFexpress Type A which is smaller and lower power consumption. Not as much manufacturing company investment. But is even more expensive and a license fee.

SDexpress can be the same form factor as the microSD and there is no license fee since Nintendo is a member. But nearly nonexistent production and expensive and huge energy consumption.

UFS card is the microSD sized and designed for energy efficiency and no license fee. Production can scale up extremely fast. But literally no production after an attempt by Samsung 8 years ago.

With Nintendo supporting any of these formats, demands would easily jumps at least a hundredfold and some of the downside can mitigated but there's no one answer everyone can agree on and no leaks pointing to any of them.
 
#TeamMicroSDExpress

It's a new format so manufactures are only just getting a feel. Given when this was announced, Nintendo can make rounds at manufacturers to have cards on shelves. And there is familiarity and BC/FC, so Nintendo doesn't have to work so hard explaining it
 

RTX 500 (Ada generation) will come to laptops, hope someone gets their hands on it, even with its 4GB at 128 GB/s and high TGP, should be interesting for some tests.

GPUCUDA CoresTensor CoresRT CoresGPU MemoryMemory TypePeak Memory bandwidthMemory interfaceTGP Max Power ConsumptionTFLOPS (32-bit)
RTX 500 (Ada)204816 (3rd gen)64 (4th gen)4GBGDDR6128 GB/s64-bit35-60W9.2
RTX A500 (Ampere)204816 (2nd gen)64 (3rd gen)4GBGDDR6112 GB/s64-bit20-60W7
 
What are the most probable hardware issues that could pop up with Switch 2 development. Backwards compatibility? Poor CPU utilization? Battery efficiency/cooling issues? If Nintendo set March 2025 as a "firm" deadline(according to the Atlus leaker), or at least a flexible deadline, the problem can't be majorly serious right?
Not sure? I only know about manufacturing from the machinist angle (two in the family). My gut instinct says that it wouldn't be what we consider major, but anything that delays your major product launch by four months is "major."

And of course, I'm not saying it is hardware. Just if it turns out we get another gigaleak in 10 years and it turns out it was something like "we can't get enough Wifi antennae" I won't be shocked. History is full of last minute hardware failures in consoles that were almost definitely either caught in testing, but pushed out anyway (the PS4 coil whine), or were caused by a late stage change (the Xbox capacitor problem).
 
What were the arguments against #2? I get that it might as well be functionally proprietary if no one else is using it, but if it can be easily manufactured, would the consumer cost be that much higher than microSD cards right now?
If manufacturers decide to get in on it, #2 is great. But the SD association projects more SD cards sold per year over the next year than Switches sold, lifetime. And I know this crowd is biased, but I would bet most Switch owners don't have a microSD card in there. So it's potentially not a worthwhile market to get into, if it requires any manufacturing complexity.

If manufacturers don't get in on it, Nintendo will have to subsidize the cards to get them made at all. Subsidized cards turn into the worst of both worlds for Nintendo - all the consumer anger over a proprietary format, while losing money making them.
 
Sony opted for 4
Microsoft opted for something between 1 and 2 as well as 3

I would hope for 3 over 4.
One possibility is to let devs flag their digital titles as "internal storage only" and the eShop warns you/helps you move titles on install if it's going to be a problem. I don't want to decide to play a couple rounds of Dicey Dungeons only to have to sit there for 10 minutes with the console moving games around from cold storage to hot before the game will start. Especially when the game doesn't actually care.
 
One possibility is to let devs flag their digital titles as "internal storage only" and the eShop warns you/helps you move titles on install if it's going to be a problem. I don't want to decide to play a couple rounds of Dicey Dungeons only to have to sit there for 10 minutes with the console moving games around from cold storage to hot before the game will start. Especially when the game doesn't actually care.
Yep, I think this is the best possibility.

The majority of games run just fine on slow storage,
 

RTX 500 (Ada generation) will come to laptops, hope someone gets their hands on it, even with its 4GB at 128 GB/s and high TGP, should be interesting for some tests.

GPUCUDA CoresTensor CoresRT CoresGPU MemoryMemory TypePeak Memory bandwidthMemory interfaceTGP Max Power ConsumptionTFLOPS (32-bit)
RTX 500 (Ada)204816 (3rd gen)64 (4th gen)4GBGDDR6128 GB/s64-bit35-60W9.2
RTX A500 (Ampere)204816 (2nd gen)64 (3rd gen)4GBGDDR6112 GB/s64-bit20-60W7
Huh, going from core count they seem very close to the chip we'll be getting. Especially the Ampere based A500.
 
I could see Nintendo shifting 3D Mario's release date to further into 2025 (Around September, Mario's 40th anniversary (oh my god)) by benefitting from the fact that no gameplay for Pokémon Legends Z-A was shown, and many (wrongfully) speculating on it implying a Nintendo Switch 2 simultaneous launch, and start to heavily market it to general audiences as THE SWITCH 2 LAUNCH TITLE in June, as Switch 1 footage could become hidden from the general public (I don't doubt it's bad). Normally, I would never say a cross-gen game being a launch title would work, BUT imo, Pokémon is an exception.
 
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Im read even more about CPU and in terms of CPU A78C is the best what they can use now, is perfect as if it were like design special for Switch by ARM
 
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Oh okay, from what im saw some folks are saying it have IPC like Zen3, but some are saying is like Zen2, A78C is also only 8 big powerful cores
Performance per clock is like, 90% of Zen 3’s I believe. 8 big and balanced cores are what you want for a console
 
I don't believe we will get a reveal until January 25... "IF" it's releasing in March. If it's releasing later than that then maybe Feb-Mar reveal. Many you guys are going to be talking specs for a long time.

Nintendo's not going to wait two months before the console releases.

And no, I don't want to hear "but Holiday!", the whole thing would get leaked.
 
I don't believe we will get a reveal until January 25... "IF" it's releasing in March. If it's releasing later than that then maybe Feb-Mar reveal. Many you guys are going to be talking specs for a long time.
There's no way.

You think Nintendo and all of their partners are going to be tightlipped until 2 months prior to launch?
 
Oh okay, from what im saw some folks are saying it have IPC like Zen3, but some are saying is like Zen2, A78C is also only 8 big powerful cores
Performance per clock is like, 90% of Zen 3’s I believe. 8 big and balanced cores are what you want for a console
IPC varies based on clock speed and workload, so it's not apples to apples. But for video game purposes, you can expect A78C to operate about the same as a Zen 2 core at the same clock speed
 
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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