StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[Concernt]

I can't claim to be an expert, but the general idea would be a better pixel density and the potential to make the device larger without having a smaller density than the original Switch's. Both meaning a clearer image.

I don't know the consensus, but I don't think it'd be a good idea for Nintendo to opt for a 1080p for their next device. If they can keep a high battery life and low cost, then sure they could do it. I just don't think the trade-off would be worth it, especially since it'd either mean trading off the OLED screen, increasing the price or investing in a much more powerful battery.

Why would the device be any larger? 1080p at 7" would be a lovely upgrade from 6.2" 720p.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

DLSS 600p to 1080p would probably be more efficient in terms of using the actual chip than like DLSS 480p to 720p, but I don't know if a jump from 720p to 1080p has huge upside visually for handheld gaming.

I don't know how much of a difference the human eye would be able to see between 720p and 1080p.

 

[kvetcha]

I don't know how much of a difference the human eye would be able to see between 720p and 1080p.

At the Switch’s screen size, not much. I’d rather have higher peak brightness/HDR.

 

[SoldierDelta]

Why would the device be any larger? 1080p at 7" would be a lovely upgrade from 6.2" 720p.

I was saying a perceived benefit, don't think too hard about the example. Besides, the Switch 2 is the handheld that I believe would benefit from an increase in size the least. It's supposed to be a small "on the go" hybrid device that has established hardware, you'd ideally want to keep both devices fairly similar to attract consumers as to not alienate them. The Steam Deck would benefit from it a lot imo because it can justify that increase in size, but not the Switch as much.

I also still stand-by my stance that the Switch shouldn't need a screen-size change, but I wouldn't be against it. That's very much something I'll believe when I see it.

 

[ILikeFeet]

DLSS 600p to 1080p would probably be more efficient in terms of using the actual chip than like DLSS 480p to 720p, but I don't know if a jump from 720p to 1080p has huge upside visually for handheld gaming.

I don't know how much of a difference the human eye would be able to see between 720p and 1080p.

how are you defining efficiency? because the 480p > 720p would be cheaper

 

[Concernt]

I was saying a perceived benefit, don't think too hard about the example. Besides, the Switch 2 is the handheld that I believe would benefit from an increase in size the least. It's supposed to be a small "on the go" hybrid device that has established hardware, you'd ideally want to keep both devices fairly similar to attract consumers as to not alienate them. The Steam Deck would benefit from it a lot imo because it can justify that increase in size, but not the Switch as much.

I also still stand-by my stance that the Switch shouldn't need a screen-size change, but I wouldn't be against it. That's very much something I'll believe when I see it.

I think 7" is reasonable since we've already seen it in a Switch body. Squeezing 8" into the same size would start to stretch things.

 

[Concernt]

how are you defining efficiency? because the 480p > 720p would be cheaper

As in efficiently using the chip at a fixed power input.

480p to 720p isn't terrible but it's slipping into the territory of pushing DLSS a bit too far. 720p to 1080p is a nice sweetspot.

 

[Goodtwin]

I would not use the term ”reputable” for someone like this lol

This is honestly a case of someone saying something, and they say a lot of something….

Maybe....probably.....but with that said it did at least spark some conversation that debated something in-between 8nm and 4N. 5LPP fits the bill in a lot of ways. Its not cutting edge, so its not expensive. It has "good enough" power efficiency for 12 SM's to make sense. There is reason to believe Samsung is going to be the manufacture.

The OG doing at worst 2 hours in a game is not choosing battery life lol

The OG Switch got around 3 hours in Zelda BotW unless you played with max brightness, and then it got 2.5 hours of battery life according to Digital Foundries test. Three hours of battery life seems to be about the least that Nintendo seems comfortable with. DS got 5-8 hours and the original 3DS got 3.5-5 hours of battery life. Switch Lite gets 3.5-4.5 hours of battery. I suspect Nintendo will target similar batter life for Switch Redacted, and come in at 3.5-4 hours of battery life.

720p vs 1080p screen comes down to cost and performance. By sticking with 720p, Drake could be clocked very low, pulling similar power to Mariko and end up delivering north of 5 hours of battery life. If they do go with a 1080p screen, this means that Drake needs to be clocked accordingly to accommodate the higher resolution target and the screen itself will pull more power. Does Nintendo care more about battery life of pixel density? Its really a coin flip on the odds of what they will do. If they stick with 720p, I hope its a carry over of the OLED screen. When you look at it from a marketability standpoint, having a 1080p screen is very marketable bullet point. Nintendo will want this new model to be an significant upgrade for everyone regardless if they play mostly docked or portable. Even if the difference isn't that big between 720p and 1080p on a 7" screen, if consumers think it is a big deal then it is a big deal.

 

[SoldierDelta]

I think 7" is reasonable since we've already seen it in a Switch body. Squeezing 8" into the same size would start to stretch things.

That is a fair assumption and I kinda forgot that the Switch OLED uses a 7 inch screen. I just kinda generally forget that revision ever happened, despite that fact that it's kind of interesting given Nintendo's plans for the 2020s before COVID messed everything up. Whoops, silly me.
Still, 7" does make sense for a 1080p screen and it'd look lovely, but I'm still doubting that the upgrade is happening. There is a lot of things rumoured right now that are in my "Would be cool if that happened, but I'm not expecting it because I'll just end up disappointing me" bin.

 

[LuckyLuke]

So in Handheld mode would it be comparable to Ps4? Slightly better?
And in Docked mode to Xbox Series S? Slightly better?

 

[Zedark]

For a 7 inch screen held at 30cm distance (1 foot), a 1080p screen will have a pixel density of 66 pixels per degree (PPD) of vision. At 720p, it is 44 PPD. Human vision has been measured to be able to detection gaps between stimuli of up to 0.3 arcminutes, or 198 PPD. However, that is a controlled single image, rather than a richly rendered video game frame, and realistic numbers to target are probably a lot lower.

20/20 visual acuity tests are at a resolution of 60 PPD, so people with good vision should be able to tell a difference between a 720p and a 1080p display held at 1 foot from their eyes I would think.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

The OG Switch got around 3 hours in Zelda BotW unless you played with max brightness, and then it got 2.5 hours of battery life according to Digital Foundries test. Three hours of battery life seems to be about the least that Nintendo seems comfortable with. DS got 5-8 hours and the original 3DS got 3.5-5 hours of battery life. Switch Lite gets 3.5-4.5 hours of battery. I suspect Nintendo will target similar batter life for Switch Redacted, and come in at 3.5-4 hours of battery life.

The OG switch can do worse than that 3Hours, and BOTW is not the most taxing game on the system. It’s built for the Wii U after all.

Its not cutting edge, so its not expensive. It has "good enough" power efficiency for 12 SM's to make sense. There is reason to believe Samsung is going to be the manufacture.

Technically it is cutting edge by nomenclature standards, it just isn’t the best. Just like how the switch was “cutting edge” back then even if it wasn’t the best in comparison

 

[Brofield]

So in Handheld mode would it be comparable to Ps4? Slightly better?
And in Docked mode to Xbox Series S? Slightly better?

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the thread handheld is a little better than PS4 (before DLSS), and docked is a little worse than XSS (after DLSS) (but not so bad that an optimized port couldn't still be delivered if it can work on XSS)

 

[Deleted member 1141]

So in Handheld mode would it be comparable to Ps4? Slightly better?
And in Docked mode to Xbox Series S? Slightly better?

PS4 comparison is bit difficult when you consider resolution, inclusion of DLSS, and the fact that the instructions performed per cycle will be better. That and amount of memory and speed of said memory. The reality, is the Switch 2 based off of information, will be a combination of being better overall, but may be held back by clock speeds, so could in theory perform worse in other areas, but better in others. It's really not a 1:1 comparison (plus taking into the fact we're talking about different architectures and different gpu manufacturers, too). It's also why the Switch, despite being overall better than Wii U, PS3, and 360, could struggle in some areas (due to memory read speeds and such).

There's no simple answer on this, and this is true for both docked and handheld/portable mode.

The console will be a generation up from PS4 regardless in every aspect. Whether or not it out performs it in every element will remain to be seen and we won't get an idea until the console itself releases and we get finalized specs (as right now, we only have limited information, even with the speeds in the leaks).

 

[ILikeFeet]

Even if Drake is close to the series s in flops and has more memory, we have to remember that the cpu and memory bandwidth are going to be bottlenecks for drake

 

[Angel Whispers]

Who is "We"? Because I'm not doing that. ZombI3 apparently isn't. Etc.

Ditto. There is no “We”. At least, it doesn’t include Me. I’ve been pushing back against so-called “consensus” view from the start. It can miss me with “checked expectations”.

Nintendo did choose battery life in the Erista Switch. The Tegra X1 chip was (m)assively underclocked.

I cringe when this is brought up because it has no semblance of a point when put under proper scrutiny. Nintendo didn't under-clock their SoC for the Internet’s perceived ideological reasons, it did so because the lithography process didn’t allow for more as a result of heating issues, and that also had to be weighed up against battery life, which also needed to be adequate if your product’s USP is the ability to switch. Had they gone higher at the time, they would’ve risked RRoD-levels of product failure, and THAT is something they would’ve wanted to avoid coming off the commercial disappointments of the Wii U and 3DS. BTW, the clocks were actually very high, relative to its contemporaries, as I highlighted in past posts.

 

[Concernt]

That is a fair assumption and I kinda forgot that the Switch OLED uses a 7 inch screen. I just kinda generally forget that revision ever happened, despite that fact that it's kind of interesting given Nintendo's plans for the 2020s before COVID messed everything up. Whoops, silly me.
Still, 7" does make sense for a 1080p screen and it'd look lovely, but I'm still doubting that the upgrade is happening. There is a lot of things rumoured right now that are in my "Would be cool if that happened, but I'm not expecting it because I'll just end up disappointing me" bin.

Why wouldn't it happen? As of right now we have nothing to indicate it won't, and some things that indicate it will. Balance of probability, it likely will.

 

[Lelouch0612]

I believe HDR is a better use of power than going to 1080p.

720p, HDR is probably going to be a better/more striking visual experience than 1080p, no HDR while probably costing less in terms of battery life.

 

[Klax0nKlax0ff]

What’s the likelihood that this device is capable of HDR? Personally, I’d be perfectly happy with max 720p output in handheld mode, assuming that games actually hit that resolution with decent frame rates. An OLED HDR screen with games actually running well seems like the sweet spot.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

What’s the likelihood that this device is capable of HDR? Personally, I’d be perfectly happy with max 720p output in handheld mode, assuming that games actually hit that resolution with decent frame rates. An OLED HDR screen with games actually running well seems like the sweet spot.

50/50.

 

[LuckyLuke]

PS4 comparison is bit difficult when you consider resolution, inclusion of DLSS, and the fact that the instructions performed per cycle will be better. That and amount of memory and speed of said memory. The reality, is the Switch 2 based off of information, will be a combination of being better overall, but may be held back by clock speeds, so could in theory perform worse in other areas, but better in others. It's really not a 1:1 comparison (plus taking into the fact we're talking about different architectures and different gpu manufacturers, too). It's also why the Switch, despite being overall better than Wii U, PS3, and 360, could struggle in some areas (due to memory read speeds and such).

There's no simple answer on this, and this is true for both docked and handheld/portable mode.

The console will be a generation up from PS4 regardless in every aspect. Whether or not it out performs it in every element will remain to be seen and we won't get an idea until the console itself releases and we get finalized specs (as right now, we only have limited information, even with the speeds in the leaks).

In any case it seems to be a nice generational boost compared to Switch. From what I understand it is not a simple doubling of power, but much more.

 

[Angel Whispers]

Not sure how anybody is on this “Nintendo will choose battery life” train when the facts show that the battery life has been progressively worse on their portable line since the DS Lite, but I’ll let that one marinate with “consensus” and “checked expectations” while I sip some cocoa. ️

 

[Concernt]

Ditto. There is no “We”. At least, it doesn’t include Me. I’ve been pushing back against so-called “consensus” view from the start. It can miss me with “checked expectations”.

I cringe when this is brought up because it has no semblance of a point when put under proper scrutiny. Nintendo didn't under-clock their SoC for the Internet’s perceived ideological reasons, it did so because the lithography process didn’t allow for more as a result of heating issues, and that also had to be weighed up against battery life, which also needed to be adequate if your product’s USP is the ability to switch. Had they gone higher at the time, they would’ve risked RRoD-levels of product failure, and THAT is something they would’ve wanted to avoid coming off the commercial disappointments of the Wii U and 3DS. BTW, the clocks were actually very high, relative to its contemporaries, as I highlighted in past posts.

I think people unfairly pan the original Switch in 2017 as "weak", "outdated", or "inefficient", when it was none of those things. In 2017, it was the most powerful GPU in a dedicated handheld, and had battery life comparable to 3DS. I mean, come on, Nintendo had a HANDHELD so powerful it succeeded their home consoles, with more than double the performance of Wii U (in raw performance), with Microsoft comparing it favourably to Xbox One in their documentation (specifically, that it had power equivalent to a 720Gflop worth of Xbox One, even if its actual performance is lower than this, due to the relative flop for flop advantages Maxwell has over GCN.)

Similarly, I think this next device will follow the same playbook. Favourable comparisons to Xbox Series S by third party developers such as Microsoft, cutting edge GPU capabilities in a handheld... And a "not cutting edge but adequate and affordable" process node in 5LPP.

 

[Concernt]

We’re approaching three GameCubes taped together territory

On a (slightly) serious note, Wii U was about 10-15 GameCubes taped together, and Switch was about 20+, so we're looking at about 100 GameCubes taped together.

 

[iag]

Are we expecting DLSS to be a system level feature, or will its use be dependent on the devs? And if it’s the later, is there something the tensor cores are good at, or will they be idle if DLSS is not being used?

 

[ILikeFeet]

Are we expecting DLSS to be a system level feature, or will its use be dependent on the devs? And if it’s the later, is there something the tensor cores are good at, or will they be idle if DLSS is not being used?

Dlss can't be a system level feature because of how it works. It will continue to be dependent on the studios adding it

Dlss are the primary use of tensor cores in gaming anyway, and the tensor cores aren't idle if dlss isn't being used as they seem to be used for fp16 tasks

 

[Concernt]

So in Handheld mode would it be comparable to Ps4? Slightly better?
And in Docked mode to Xbox Series S? Slightly better?

In TV mode, before DLSS a little weaker than Series S, after DLSS, much better. I'd say the ballpark we're looking at is comparable or slightly toned down effects and complexity but higher output resolution.

Handheld, around half a Series S before DLSS, but considering the display target is 1080p at most, likely 60hz, and on a smaller screen, and then you get the performance advantages of DLSS on top of that, it should be very comparable. Think more "portable Xbox Series S" and all the caveats that come with that.

The major sticking point is that the CPU is, I will not beat around the bush, far worse than Series S. It's just not physically possible for it to be much better, and for a handheld it's goddamn impressive, close to Steam Deck, but ultimately it's a lower power CPU with no hyperthreading trying to push higher output resolutions than Series S.

Graphically my expectations are pretty much Series S with better resolution, but performance may suffer in cross platform games thanks to the CPU chasm, I won't kid myself about that.

 

[Angel Whispers]

So in Handheld mode would it be comparable to Ps4? Slightly better?
And in Docked mode to Xbox Series S? Slightly better?

Better in both cases. Better in handheld by virtue of having a significantly better CPU, more modern architecture, RT and DLSS, and because “PS4-tier performance” up to 11 years after the fact impresses nobody, and severely underestimates where portable tech actually is/has been for quite a while. Better in home mode than XSS because the leaked GPU is better before clock speed, and even at around 1GHz, DLSS/the neural unit will allow more room for manoeuvre, giving it hardware-specific advantages. That’s also to say that the lack of a neural unit reduces the CPU advantage of XSS because it has to work harder, so as not to bottleneck the GPU, and use more grunt to get the results it’s getting. It means that smarter engineering, not raw power, will determine the possibilities for better end results.

 

[HankyPanky]

there are Uncles in all walks of life, especially Samsung.

i presume Nintendo got a good deal on using this node as the Snapdragon 888 got quite a slating, doesn't seem particularly power efficient & there were many reports of it overheating. old news for people here but Qualcomm moved to TSMC, presumably it could hit Nintendo's targets in a slightly larger device. $400 now seems a more reasonable target too.

 

[Dakhil]

Not sure how anybody is on this “Nintendo will choose battery life” train when the facts show that the battery life has been progressively worse on their portable line since the DS Lite, but I’ll let that one marinate with “consensus” and “checked expectations” while I sip some cocoa. ️

Nintendo did increase battery life by ~32.26% (6.5 hours to 9 hours) to ~57.14% (2.5 hours to 4.5 hours), going from the Nintendo Switch (2017) to the Nintendo Switch (2019)/OLED model (2021). So never say never.

 

[Concernt]

Better in both cases. Better in handheld by virtue of having a significantly better CPU, more modern architecture, RT and DLSS, and because “PS4-tier performance” up to 11 years after the fact impresses nobody, and severely underestimates where portable tech actually is/has been for quite a while. Better in home mode than XSS because the leaked GPU is better before clock speed, and even at around 1GHz, DLSS/the neural unit will allow more room for manoeuvre, giving it hardware-specific advantages. That’s also to say that the lack of a neural unit reduces the CPU advantage of XSS because it has to work harder, so as not to bottleneck the GPU, and use more grunt to get the results it’s getting. It means that smarter engineering, not raw power, will determine the possibilities for better end results.

Maybe this is a lukewarm take, but the trend in modern processors (CPU and GPU) away from higher speeds and more cores, as die shrinks fail to materialise like they used to, and towards dedicated hardware, AI acceleration and hardware lighting solutions, may indeed benefit Nintendo in the medium to long term. They cannot and in my opinion should not compete in the market of ignoring power consumption. Instead they have a partner deeply invested in specialised hardware for GPUs, and that will pay dividends. It's unlikely that GPUs and nodes will improve rapidly until a breakthrough new technology which may never materialise.

 

[Concernt]

Nintendo did increase battery life by ~32.26% (6.5 hours to 9 hours) to ~57.14% (2.5 hours to 4.5 hours), going from the Nintendo Switch (2017) to the Nintendo Switch (2019)/OLED model (2021). So never say never.

True, but that was a revision, and revisions tend to improve battery life relative to their launch counterpart.

 

[My Tulpa]

PS4 comparison is bit difficult when you consider resolution, inclusion of DLSS, and the fact that the instructions performed per cycle will be better. That and amount of memory and speed of said memory. The reality, is the Switch 2 based off of information, will be a combination of being better overall, but may be held back by clock speeds, so could in theory perform worse in other areas, but better in others.

Geez, the Drake upgrade model isn't even out yet and we are already discussing a theoretical "Switch 2"?? :O

 

[Concernt]

Geez, the Drake upgrade model isn't even out yet and we are already discussing a theoretical "Switch 2"?? :O

I'm guessing this is a joke. Because I giggled!

 

[YolkFolk]

I'm guessing this is a joke. Because I giggled!

He’s serious.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Not sure how anybody is on this “Nintendo will choose battery life” train when the facts show that the battery life has been progressively worse on their portable line since the DS Lite, but I’ll let that one marinate with “consensus” and “checked expectations” while I sip some cocoa. ️

I don't think you can start dipping to one hour of battery life without major issues from mainstream consumers. The Switch 1 is just over the threshold where people would complain.

I think this is not going above the Switch 1 (original model) in terms of power consumption.

 

[YolkFolk]

Remember this? Summer 2019.

Miyamoto Still Wants To Reinvent The Controller

While the standard buttons-and-joystick video game controller has made a fairly decisive return to Nintendo’s games on the Switch, that doesn’t mean Nintendo is done trying to reinvent the way we interact with video games.

kotaku.com

But Miyamoto, and therefore Nintendo, is not satisfied. “At the same time, I also believe that we should quickly graduate from the current controller, and we are attempting all kinds of things,” he said. “Our objective is to achieve an interface that surpasses the current controller, where what the player does is directly reflected on the screen, and the user can clearly feel the result. This has not been achieved yet.”

But not, he said, for Nintendo’s lack of trying. “We have tried all kinds of motion controllers, but none seem to work for all people. As the company that knows the most about controllers, we have been striving to create a controller that can be used with ease, and that will become the standard for the next generation.”

 

[karmitt]

.

True, but that was a revision, and revisions tend to improve battery life relative to their launch counterpart.

How do we reconcile with what some are saying about there not being a die shrink opportunity with the recent, perhaps dubious, 5LPP rumor? If they don’t choose battery life at launch how do they manage it later on?

 

[ILikeFeet]

there are Uncles in all walks of life, especially Samsung.

i presume Nintendo got a good deal on using this node as the Snapdragon 888 got quite a slating, doesn't seem particularly power efficient & there were many reports of it overheating. old news for people here but Qualcomm moved to TSMC, presumably it could hit Nintendo's targets in a slightly larger device. $400 now seems a more reasonable target too.

Phone processors are marketed much differently and have different thermal constraints. The numbers we see tend to be peak clocks, and then, when heat gets too much, the clocks go down to a stable point. Also, phone chip makers try to win benchmark wars with those peak clocks.

Point is, while the 888 was criticized, it's because those optimistic numbers weren't sustained for very long. Drake won't be clocked that high and will have active cooling

 

[Deleted member 887]

20/20 visual acuity tests are at a resolution of 60 PPD, so people with good vision should be able to tell a difference between a 720p and a 1080p display held at 1 foot from their eyes I would think.

Yes, this is roughly the line where 720p starts to break down for folks with uncorrected 20/20 vision, who are under the age of ~40.

However, the pixel density/max acuity ratio isn't the only metric for whether or not a screen bump provides a visual improvement. It only defines whether or not someone can see the additional detail provided by the image. That's not the only thing that matters.

Your brain accumulates visual information over time. Even if you have a person who cannot see any of the new detail created by a 1080p image will be able to perceive a "difference" between two video games in motion. Higher res provides greater temporal stability, with lower aliasing - the absence of TAA across the Switch eco-system exacerbates the limitations of 720p. For the vast majority of people a supersampled TAA image at 720p will look as better than the same, aliased image at 1080p. For people who can't perceive the additional detail, a high quality TAA at both resolutions will look identical.

Additional gains in motion smoothness can also sometimes be perceived even in TAA images at higher resolution, when in motion. But that smoothness can also be achieved by increasing frame rates. In terms of pixels pushed 720p60fps is cheaper than 1080p30fps.

 

[Shish]

there are Uncles in all walks of life, especially Samsung.

i presume Nintendo got a good deal on using this node as the Snapdragon 888 got quite a slating, doesn't seem particularly power efficient & there were many reports of it overheating. old news for people here but Qualcomm moved to TSMC, presumably it could hit Nintendo's targets in a slightly larger device. $400 now seems a more reasonable target too.

$400 is too much, look what happened to the 3ds when it cost $100 more than the ds at launch, the launch was a disaster and they had to drop the price to $169, if they had listened to Reggie the 3ds would have sold better

Reggie Fils-Aimé Wanted The 3DS To Launch At $199, But Was Rebuffed

"With 3DS, we did not let the poor sales performance linger"

www.nintendolife.com

 

[Truno]

Remember this? Summer 2019.

Miyamoto Still Wants To Reinvent The Controller

While the standard buttons-and-joystick video game controller has made a fairly decisive return to Nintendo’s games on the Switch, that doesn’t mean Nintendo is done trying to reinvent the way we interact with video games.

kotaku.com

As the company that knows the most about controllers

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

$400 is too much, look what happened to the 3ds when it cost $100 more than the ds at launch, the launch was a disaster and they had to drop the price to $169, if they had listened to Reggie the 3ds would have sold better

Reggie Fils-Aimé Wanted The 3DS To Launch At $199, But Was Rebuffed

"With 3DS, we did not let the poor sales performance linger"

www.nintendolife.com

The Switch launched at an inflation adjusted $370 as the followup to the worst selling mainstream console of all time.

The Switch 2 will likely be $400 or $500.

 

[Concernt]

.


How do we reconcile with what some are saying about there not being a die shrink opportunity with the recent, perhaps dubious, 5LPP rumor? If they don’t choose battery life at launch how do they manage it later on?

There are many other ways to optimise a system's battery life, or outright improve it. Nintendo is no stranger to bigger batteries to achieve better battery life, like with DSi XL. Or the same size of battery with more capacity. A redesigned, smaller motherboard with more room for a battery. More energy efficient RAM and support circuitry. More energy efficient displays. A combination of these. Node shrinks aren't the be-all-end-all of battery life improvements and never have been. Even then, I would raise an eyebrow at the suggestion that it would be somehow impossible for them to shrink from 5LPP, I'm sure Samsung and Nvidia aren't so dumb as to have made it impossible to do so. Maybe when GAAFET becomes mainstream and affordable, if it ever does. We can't see into the future, we can only comment on the past.

Even with all that said, even if we ignore the leaked tests and the fact they were in line with Switch power consumption without mashing the clocks down,

So what? My concern really isn't "disappointing clocks in handheld mode". Once it's in the dock and can eat a healthy 8-10W of power, if it's on 5LPP, that's plenty of pixel pushing possibilities.

Plus, going BELOW 4W for the GPU with 12SMs on 5LPP doesn't seem very wise, is it even efficient to do so?

Then of course, battery density and technology has improved since 2017, so even if, in line with leaked tests, it has the same consumption as the original V1 Switch, it could very easily have better battery life regardless.

I definitely think expecting this thing to launch with battery life exceeding the OLED Model is a touch naïve. But if it doesn't do that, what is the bar? Because the original Switch's power consumption with a modern battery with the exact same dimensions... Would have better than V1 battery life!

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Yeah, there's very little chance in my mind Nintendo shoves a massive battery into this. The Switch is already really big.

Power consumption similar to Switch 1 original is what I expect.

 

[cw_sasuke]

$400 is too much, look what happened to the 3ds when it cost $100 more than the ds at launch, the launch was a disaster and they had to drop the price to $169, if they had listened to Reggie the 3ds would have sold better

Reggie Fils-Aimé Wanted The 3DS To Launch At $199, But Was Rebuffed

"With 3DS, we did not let the poor sales performance linger"

www.nintendolife.com

There are actually still people that compare the Switch Hybrid line to the 3DS ? Erm okay.

399 is the best case scenario in terms of price, you haven't been paying attention to tech and console prices the last 5 years if you think the market would be expecting a Switch succesor to be cheaper than a SWOLED.

PS5 is more expensive than at launch and still 550 and you think a Switch succesor is launching for less than 400 ?

 

[ShadowFox08]

So, like HDR formats, a multi game suspend would be cool to have.

At least 2 games to suspend at a moment

Hm, a “raise to wake” like function would be small, but nice to have.

An integrated note app or something to write in, game related?

Or like, if you take a screenshot of a game you can save it under a note and write down something to keep in mind for whatever it needs it for.

The Bluetooth Audio being part of the submenu when you hold the home button, that if you have one set already paired for the system you can just pair it but tapping it. Would be nice if they just did this with the current switch, but let’s assume they are saving this for the 2 for “???” Reasons I won’t bother trying.

Being able to suspend two games is all I need. Imagine seamless play between a digital and physical game.

skill issue

Y'all be watching too many a.i. presidents tier ranking videos

So in Handheld mode would it be comparable to Ps4? Slightly better?
And in Docked mode to Xbox Series S? Slightly better?

For the most part, yes in handheld mode. Switch 2 should be able to surpass in CPU and GPU in all scenarios (assuming it's like above +1.3 TFLOPs). I would say in all scenarios, if the screen and resolution of the game is at 720p, but things will get it interesting if it's a 1080p screen vs a PS4 game at 1080p resolution.

Ampere architecture is a lot more efficient than tx1 and PS4 AMD.and handling bandwidth constraints.

The PS4 might surpass it in performance in some scenarios (in handheld) regarding use of bandwidth, assuming bandwidth for handheld is 68-88GBs (more so for the former, but SD was having issues at 88GB/s). I do feel fairly confident that 102 GB/s lppdr5 bandwidth in docked will at least match PS4 though at least in bandwidth for 1080p games, and again I'm not factoring in DLSS.

More bandwidth doesn't just help with resolution, but loading stuff on screen, framerate,, and alpha particles and what not. Developers will learn to work around it and optimize. I'm not to worried about it in handheld mode vs last gen though in terms of framerate or IQ. Worst case scenario we'll get 720p-900p handheld PS4 game ports with better overall performance than on the PS4.

As far as vs series S. If we get to 3 tflops in docked mode, it's gonna be an xbone vs PS4 scenario in GPU performance (without taking series s's even larger bandwidth speed than PS4 into account, and DLSS on Switch 2). Switch 2 mostly has to worry about CPU bottleneck though, which I think at the very least there will be a 2x gap at minimum. But it sure beats the 3.5x gap in CPU speed when comparing switch's CPU vs PS4's.

 

[Kenka]

Ditto. There is no “We”. At least, it doesn’t include Me. I’ve been pushing back against so-called “consensus” view from the start. It can miss me with “checked expectations”.

I cringe when this is brought up because it has no semblance of a point when put under proper scrutiny. Nintendo didn't under-clock their SoC for the Internet’s perceived ideological reasons, it did so because the lithography process didn’t allow for more as a result of heating issues, and that also had to be weighed up against battery life, which also needed to be adequate if your product’s USP is the ability to switch. Had they gone higher at the time, they would’ve risked RRoD-levels of product failure, and THAT is something they would’ve wanted to avoid coming off the commercial disappointments of the Wii U and 3DS. BTW, the clocks were actually very high, relative to its contemporaries, as I highlighted in past posts.

Nintendo raised the base frequency in selected titles, such as Mortal Kombat 11.

 

[BlueKing]

$400 is too much, look what happened to the 3ds when it cost $100 more than the ds at launch, the launch was a disaster and they had to drop the price to $169, if they had listened to Reggie the 3ds would have sold better

Reggie Fils-Aimé Wanted The 3DS To Launch At $199, But Was Rebuffed

"With 3DS, we did not let the poor sales performance linger"

www.nintendolife.com

Thats a false equivalence, the 3DS isn't a premium console like the next Switch, and considering the PS5 can sell out at $500 now after the PS3 being called "too expensive" even at $500, then there is no reason why the next Switch can't sell for $400, especially with the already huge software library that it has.

 

[My Tulpa]

$400 is too much, look what happened to the 3ds when it cost $100 more than the ds at launch, the launch was a disaster and they had to drop the price to $169, if they had listened to Reggie the 3ds would have sold better

Reggie Fils-Aimé Wanted The 3DS To Launch At $199, But Was Rebuffed

"With 3DS, we did not let the poor sales performance linger"

www.nintendolife.com

Yes, the $350 OLED model was a disaster...

Anyways, this new Drake power upgrade could easily be $400-$500 and be just fine. It's not a new console designed to replace the previous systems, it's a continuation of the family of Switch devices. It doesn't need to be the best-selling Switch when adding up the LTD sales of Switch's.

Its purpose more would be to keep Switch gaming by hardware enthusiasts high over the next few years which would otherwise have declined without the upgrade.

The 3ds was literally where most of Nintendo software support was focused on and away from the DS/DSi, so the 3ds uptake as quickly as possible was very important. Won't be the case for this Drake Switch.