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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

The Drake that Nintendo will use? Yes. Because they’ll clock it low.

Drake as a whole? No.

At 3GHz all cores, all 8 of the performance cores, it would trounces the A15


Apple silicon is good don’t get me wrong, but it wouldn’t be that much in its favor in this scenario.


Apple A15 Bionic is a 6-core processor, only 2 of those cores are huge performance cores and they can clock to 3.23GHz

And it is accompanied by 4 “efficiency” cores that don’t go above 2GHz.

The A78 at max can clock to 3.3GHz. And has 8 of them. And they are performance cores.


If the comparison was to the M1 or the M2? Yes it would be best by those.


DLSS 2 and DLSS3 are two different techniques with the same branding.

And it is too late to change it. But I don’t think that the change is greatly needed….
I’m talking Nintendo clocks, of course. Wouldn’t make sense to compare max theoretical Drake clocks to a phone SoC clocked for passive cooling. I’m only pointing out that, as-is, the A15 is within shot of Orin’s multi-core score despite having half the cores.
 
just watching a clip of the new Pokemon hacked to run 60fps and boy what an improvement you can almost forgive the basic visuals when everything is nice and smooth. maybe Pokemon isn't the best example but with Bayonetta they have a top dev in that genre working on an exclusive title for years and there ends up being sacrifices due to underpowered hardware. if Drake isn't coming with Zelda it will be incredibly dissapointing with the Switch showing it's age so much. and if it isn't coming in 2023 we're into laughable territory. don't drop the ball Nintendo.
 
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I’m talking Nintendo clocks, of course. Wouldn’t make sense to compare max theoretical Drake clocks to a phone SoC clocked for passive cooling. I’m only pointing out that, as-is, the A15 is within shot of Orin’s multi-core score despite having half the cores.
Oh, the phone isn’t clocked that high either. It’s just peak performance. Real life performance is below that for the A15, because it doesn’t operate at peak 3.23GHz + 2.01GHz all day. But it does have a good level of performance still.


Phones aren’t a good barometer for this anyway. Orin is able to maintain a constant 2.2GHz, A15 is at that moment for a time before it throttles down.

Drake in the switch will be a constant xGHz all day, every day, for life.


Can the cores in Orin clock higher? Of course they are designed to, but it’s likely that nvidia limited that due to how large the silicon is (it’s >450mm^2) and not wanting to risk those chips breaking on them.
 
Oh, the phone isn’t clocked that high either. It’s just peak performance. Real life performance is below that for the A15, because it doesn’t operate at peak 3.23GHz + 2.01GHz all day. But it does have a good level of performance still.


Phones aren’t a good barometer for this anyway. Orin is able to maintain a constant 2.2GHz, A15 is at that moment for a time before it throttles down.

Drake in the switch will be a constant xGHz all day, every day, for life.


Can the cores in Orin clock higher? Of course they are designed to, but it’s likely that nvidia limited that due to how large the silicon is (it’s >450mm^2) and not wanting to risk those chips breaking on them.
Fair points all!
 
it sounds like Zelda is basically done with the game being rated etc which lines up with the idea there was never an issue with getting the game out in 2022 if they so wanted. despite Pokemon it would have made most sense as a holiday title and been a huge seller. I maintain there had to be a reason why it was moved from 2022 and the most likely one is to push the new upgraded Switch that wouldn't be ready yet.
 
it sounds like Zelda is basically done with the game being rated etc which lines up with the idea there was never an issue with getting the game out in 2022 if they so wanted. despite Pokemon it would have made most sense as a holiday title and been a huge seller. I maintain there had to be a reason why it was moved from 2022 and the most likely one is to push the new upgraded Switch that wouldn't be ready yet.
Rating has nothing to do with the completion rate of the game..
 
maybe Pokemon isn't the best example but with Bayonetta they have a top dev in that genre working on an exclusive title for years and there ends up being sacrifices due to underpowered hardware.
No amount of hardware prevents developers from going for too much. If a game has always been aimed towards Switch and they overshot, that's on them. If Switch was 3x as powerful, they'd have been aiming 3x as high. With both Pokémon and Bayonetta we have developers making a new game in a series for hardware with as much or more power as any previous entry in the series had to work with.
 
just watching a clip of the new Pokemon hacked to run 60fps and boy what an improvement you can almost forgive the basic visuals when everything is nice and smooth. maybe Pokemon isn't the best example but with Bayonetta they have a top dev in that genre working on an exclusive title for years and there ends up being sacrifices due to underpowered hardware. if Drake isn't coming with Zelda it will be incredibly dissapointing with the Switch showing it's age so much. and if it isn't coming in 2023 we're into laughable territory. don't drop the ball Nintendo.
Bayonetta is a bad example because they never put out a stable game on any platform
 
just watching a clip of the new Pokemon hacked to run 60fps and boy what an improvement you can almost forgive the basic visuals when everything is nice and smooth. maybe Pokemon isn't the best example but with Bayonetta they have a top dev in that genre working on an exclusive title for years and there ends up being sacrifices due to underpowered hardware. if Drake isn't coming with Zelda it will be incredibly dissapointing with the Switch showing it's age so much. and if it isn't coming in 2023 we're into laughable territory. don't drop the ball Nintendo.

What's "laughable territory"
 
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I just don’t understand why would Nvidia use the T239 over a variant of Orin in a new Shield TV?
Because they're already making T239. If you were to alter Orin to make the best Shield you could, you'd get something close to T239 anyway. Nvidia doesn't have to design a new chip, which is cheaper for them, and Nintendo doesn't pay for exclusivity on the hardware, which is cheaper for them.

There are only 2 real places where T239 isn't a good fit. One, it's got custom decompression hardware, and two it's kinda beefy. In theory, both of these "problems" can be solved by binning. If some of the chips coming out of the foundry "work" but don't have all the hardware functional, they ordinarily can't be used, but if Shield doesn't need all that hardware, then potentially you get a smaller T239 variant (with, say, 8SMs instead of 12) for "free".

If Nintendo buys a wafer to make T239 for the NuSwitch, and some of the chips can't be used, that's lost money for silicon. But if some of those binned chips can be used for the Shield, Nvidia pays for those. That recoups Nintendo money for what would usually be waste, and Nvidia only has to pay for the chips that actually meet their requirements. Once again, it makes it cheaper for everyone.

The Apple TV 4k is made from binned chips for the iPhone 13/14. Having multiple product lines for big chips like this is a smart move, and it's clear Nintendo doesn't view the Shield products as competitors. What's more interesting to me will be if Nvidia decides to market T239/T239b as a "non-automotive" Orin. The automotive industry has been the biggest consistent Tegra customer, but previous Tegras all wound up in tablets/laptops/AR devices. It's possible that the chip itself will be Nvidia's second business line, rather than a Shield. After all, Nintendo will be proving the chips value, Nvidia doesn't need a first party product to convince integrators to use it.

Just curious has anyone stayed on top of the Linux code searches?
I went just last night to see what would turn up and there have been 4 new Tegra entries that also include support for t239.
Interesting enough the Linux code is also building support for a Tegra th500, which Google says is the next Tegra Hopper SoC naming.
I have been looking but I haven't seen anything new. Do you mind linking me to what you've found?
 
just watching a clip of the new Pokemon hacked to run 60fps and boy what an improvement you can almost forgive the basic visuals when everything is nice and smooth. maybe Pokemon isn't the best example but with Bayonetta they have a top dev in that genre working on an exclusive title for years and there ends up being sacrifices due to underpowered hardware. if Drake isn't coming with Zelda it will be incredibly dissapointing with the Switch showing it's age so much. and if it isn't coming in 2023 we're into laughable territory. don't drop the ball Nintendo.

Developers overshooting hardware always happens. I don't think things are as dire as you're framing it. It isn't like Platinum is known for their excellent performance either.

Most of these Switch games could be ironed out with relatively minor CPU, GPU and bandwidth upclocks.

It is tail end of the generation. Performance is going to degrade. That's just normal.
 
A new shield might be made up of a mix of binned T234s and T239s. I can't imagine either of them having enough binning to make a consistently available product line of Shields. But together, they might be able to put out a not-exactly paper launch
 
Amazon US has removed the cover art for TOTK and has removed the platform from the product information section.

Grain of salt, though, it's still listed as "LegendofZeldaBreathoftheWild2_NSW" as its model number.

GameStop US has also removed the cover art.

Probably nothing but. Maybe not.
 
Amazon US has removed the cover art for TOTK and has removed the platform from the product information section.

Grain of salt, though, it's still listed as "LegendofZeldaBreathoftheWild2_NSW" as its model number.

GameStop US has also removed the cover art.

Probably nothing but. Maybe not.
Should we be Concernt?
 
Amazon US has removed the cover art for TOTK and has removed the platform from the product information section.

Grain of salt, though, it's still listed as "LegendofZeldaBreathoftheWild2_NSW" as its model number.

GameStop US has also removed the cover art.

Probably nothing but. Maybe not.
Did you have the link of the amazon TotK page?
 
Most likely it is due to the fact that Breath of the Wild has US/Japan exclusive artwork, and the current artwork is very clearly the continuation of the European cover.
 
I would assume that the production volume for Drake is going to be very, very high compared to Orin, and that consequently there are going to be a lot of binned chips that aren’t good enough for Nintendo hardware but are plenty powerful enough for something like a Shield.

No guarantee they’re using binned chips, of course, but it seems like a good way to get more value per wafer.

Because they're already making T239. If you were to alter Orin to make the best Shield you could, you'd get something close to T239 anyway. Nvidia doesn't have to design a new chip, which is cheaper for them, and Nintendo doesn't pay for exclusivity on the hardware, which is cheaper for them.

There are only 2 real places where T239 isn't a good fit. One, it's got custom decompression hardware, and two it's kinda beefy. In theory, both of these "problems" can be solved by binning. If some of the chips coming out of the foundry "work" but don't have all the hardware functional, they ordinarily can't be used, but if Shield doesn't need all that hardware, then potentially you get a smaller T239 variant (with, say, 8SMs instead of 12) for "free".

If Nintendo buys a wafer to make T239 for the NuSwitch, and some of the chips can't be used, that's lost money for silicon. But if some of those binned chips can be used for the Shield, Nvidia pays for those. That recoups Nintendo money for what would usually be waste, and Nvidia only has to pay for the chips that actually meet their requirements. Once again, it makes it cheaper for everyone.

The Apple TV 4k is made from binned chips for the iPhone 13/14. Having multiple product lines for big chips like this is a smart move, and it's clear Nintendo doesn't view the Shield products as competitors. What's more interesting to me will be if Nvidia decides to market T239/T239b as a "non-automotive" Orin. The automotive industry has been the biggest consistent Tegra customer, but previous Tegras all wound up in tablets/laptops/AR devices. It's possible that the chip itself will be Nvidia's second business line, rather than a Shield. After all, Nintendo will be proving the chips value, Nvidia doesn't need a first party product to convince integrators to use it.


I have been looking but I haven't seen anything new. Do you mind linking me to what you've found?

I guess for me it would make the most sense for Nintendo to use a majority of the T239 chips even the binned ones for something like a New Switch Lite eventually. That version of the Switch by itself has outsold every Nvidia Shield product combined and I'm sure Nintendo can charge more for it than Nvidia can meaningfully get away with on a new Shield TV and be successful.
 
It depends how sensitive one is, I mean I never had issues with the N64 20fps slide shows so Bowser’s Fury was perfectly fine for me. Rather have stable 30 fps than variable 30-60fps.
Bowser's Fury in Handheld mode was NOT as stable as it could have been. If Fury Bowser was attacking and you were at one of the more detailed islands, not only could the framerate tank, but there'd be actual, N64-era-like slowdown.
 
I guess for me it would make the most sense for Nintendo to use a majority of the T239 chips even the binned ones for something like a New Switch Lite eventually. That version of the Switch by itself has outsold every Nvidia Shield product combined and I'm sure Nintendo can charge more for it than Nvidia can meaningfully get away with on a new Shield TV and be successful.
Drake is going to be using all 12 SMs regardless of which mode it’s in, so I don’t know that shunting them to a Drake Lite is necessarily a viable solution.
 
I'm excited for the new hardware because, we Nintendo fans, will finally leave behind the WiiU-era of graphics, which was really the PS3/360 era of graphics.

I'm ready for Metroid Prime 4 with PS4 graphics.
 
I guess for me it would make the most sense for Nintendo to use a majority of the T239 chips even the binned ones for something like a New Switch Lite eventually.
Yeah, Nintendo can't use the binned chips. If they only have half the GPU or half the CPUs functional, then they just won't be able to run NuSwitch games. Handheld mode doesn't turn off half the hardware, it just runs it at half speed.

We know from the NVN2 hack that Nintendo expects all the hardware in the GPU to be there in both modes. Binned chips, in that world, are just literal garbage.

Even if Nvidia doesn't use binned chips in other devices, there are plenty of advantages to having another customer for t239.
 
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Pretty strong evidence that ScarVi is, in some situations, storage limited. This will not go away with new hardware, I'm afraid, and more indications that GameFreak + The Pokemon Company's ridiculous release schedule will produce bad games no matter what they run on.

The fact that Arceus seems to be the technically superior game to the point that Scarlet and Violet almost seem like an older engine, something went deeply wrong over there. Game Freak would be better off tossing their engine entirely and going with Unity, and I can't believe I'm saying that.
 


Pretty strong evidence that ScarVi is, in some situations, storage limited. This will not go away with new hardware, I'm afraid, and more indications that GameFreak + The Pokemon Company's ridiculous release schedule will produce bad games no matter what they run on.

The fact that Arceus seems to be the technically superior game to the point that Scarlet and Violet almost seem like an older engine, something went deeply wrong over there. Game Freak would be better off tossing their engine entirely and going with Unity, and I can't believe I'm saying that.

I think it would take more time to get the game to feel like Pokémon. BDSP feels kind of clean and sterile. It looks good but a little sterile.
 
A new shield might be made up of a mix of binned T234s and T239s. I can't imagine either of them having enough binning to make a consistently available product line of Shields. But together, they might be able to put out a not-exactly paper launch
That’s the good news: set-top boxes don’t sell in the hundreds of millions, so high volumes aren’t exactly necessary, just high enough volumes. And you achieve that by making a stockpile of binned chips. Binned chips of Erista and Mariko were enough to fully satisfy Shield demand, after all. For the Mariko chips specifically, they were available in Switches manufactured after August 2019, while Shield products with Mariko chips appeared in October, enough time to get a decent lead of binned chips to ensure stock was available.
I guess for me it would make the most sense for Nintendo to use a majority of the T239 chips even the binned ones for something like a New Switch Lite eventually. That version of the Switch by itself has outsold every Nvidia Shield product combined and I'm sure Nintendo can charge more for it than Nvidia can meaningfully get away with on a new Shield TV and be successful.
On top of what’s already been said about Nintendo using the full range of cores even in a Lite model, even if they could somehow design a way to utilize binned chips for a Lite (which is unlikely), Nintendo’s primary concern is getting the best rate for T239 SoCs for the base hybrid model, and the fact of the matter is that a Shield could utilize FAR more binned chips than a Lite could, so it’s more economical to let Nvidia do as it wants with what’s been binned, as they will be able to use a larger swath of binned chips anyways.
 
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I think it would take more time to get the game to feel like Pokémon. BDSP feels kind of clean and sterile. It looks good but a little sterile.
It would definitely take time to get there, but I'm not sure that it would be any worse than the situation is now. The one thing Game Freak is good at is making games that feel like Pokemon games. Something they're definitely not good at is solving complex data streaming issues.

A 3rd party engine wouldn't solve all of GameFreak's problems, you can still use 3rd party engines badly. But their release schedule and open world almost don't go together, period, much less when you're trying to build an engine underneath you as you go.
 
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Pretty strong evidence that ScarVi is, in some situations, storage limited. This will not go away with new hardware, I'm afraid, and more indications that GameFreak + The Pokemon Company's ridiculous release schedule will produce bad games no matter what they run on.

The fact that Arceus seems to be the technically superior game to the point that Scarlet and Violet almost seem like an older engine, something went deeply wrong over there. Game Freak would be better off tossing their engine entirely and going with Unity, and I can't believe I'm saying that.


I wouldn't be surprised if Legends has major engine improvements over SV just due to the nature of how they approached the game. Legends was set to be a game that completely changed how Pokemon was seen, it was also a gamble, very different than previous entries. But it paid off for them, Scarlet and Violet probably played catch-up in the last few months implementing features they didn't even plan on during the start of development. This isn't really new to GameFreak though, as if you read their development interviews for Sword and Shield, that game was never supposed to have Pokemon roaming around in the field, but after they saw positive reception to it in Let's Go, they worked hard to add it in.

Look at the similarities Scarlet and Violet share with Arceus and... well, it feels like most of Scarlet and Violets similarities were tacked on at the last second. Being able to catch a Pokemon by surprise and initiate battle from a distance feels bad, not just because of the 2 second wait sometimes, but because of the weird trainer teleportation issues. Within the first 15 minutes of the game it resulted in me being teleported up onto to a ledge I wasn't even supposed to be able to get up on because it was the closest thing to the flying Pokemon I tried to fight. The same issue still exists sometimes when you encounter Pokemon in weird places, but to a lesser extent. These issues wouldn't have been a problem if they had planned to go with the Legends style encounters and ability to free roam during battles from the get-go.

I really think this is less about engine issues, and more about conflicting visions about the future of Pokemon. It really felt like GameFreak was trying desperately to make the Scarlet and Violet not feel terribly outdated compared to their newer breakthrough Legends and that potential scrambling to make changes that help bridge the gameplay gap near the end of development may have caused them to miss some key optimizations that would have been able to be solved if they weren't on such a strict release schedule. Maybe a more powerful system would have helped mitigate the framerate and visuals issues more, but there are fundamental design conflicts that are pretty evident compared to previous entries, and they definitely didn't give themselves enough time to iron out their solutions to those conflicts before they pushed the game out the door.

I'm still having a good time despite my groaning, but I hope that the feedback gives them enough of a push to drastically invest in their proprietary engine (as I do still really like proprietary engines a lot) and more reasonable timelines for development. I don't think that 3 years is too little, but it is too little if they intend to implement last minute features like they have been doing in their generation titles recently.
 
this comment doesn't make much sense to me when you account for the Wild Area. did they really think that empty-ass world would have been fine if it was even emptier? that just further makes me think the wild area came super late
 
this comment doesn't make much sense to me when you account for the Wild Area. did they really think that empty-ass world would have been fine if it was even emptier? that just further makes me think the wild area came super late
There's a chance they were talking about everywhere except the Wild Area, but I think that falls apart the more I think about it. The Wild Areas aggressive Pokemon pop-in as well as some Pokemon only being able to be encountered through grass patches lends to the idea that it wasn't planned from the beginning.

So either the wild area was a late addition, or it was intended to just be a big multiplayer hub with trainers and raid battles. Poni Island in the Sun and Moon postgame has a big area that's sort of empty to that extent. Maybe the multiplayer functioned better without the Pokemon roaming as well. I think I'm of the opinion it was always planned without encounters, even as weird as that seems now.
 
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I really think this is less about engine issues, and more about conflicting visions about the future of Pokemon.
Here is my point - Scarlet and Violet show fundamental engine errors that Arceus doesn't have. Even if Arceus style gameplay was introduced at the last minute to Scarlet/Violet, they should have inherited the engine improvements from Arceus.

Either Arceus was forked early, and poor management of the two engine branches meant that Arceus fixes weren't making it back to mainline, or Scarlet and Violet started with the Arceus engine and broke it adding open world and online play enhancements.

I'm not suggesting that engine trouble is the only issue plaguing Scarlet/Violet. I'm suggesting that Game Freak doesn't have the technical competence to deliver Switch games of this scope on an annual schedule.

My thread relevant point is that this issue will persist with new hardware. Drake won't fix data streaming performance issues in these games. Nor will new hardware fix the inadequate tooling GameFreak has for their bespoke engine.

GameFreak isn't Platinum Games. The games they make don't strain the assumptions of existing 3rd party engines, nor do they have a "release when it's ready" development timeline. They're not Koei Tecmo who have an engine with highly mature tooling which allows them to push games out at a rapid pace, even if technical quality is sub-par. And they're not MonolithSoft who produce technically complex games for a single, highly restricted platform.

The release schedule isn't going to flag, and players wanting more out of their Pokemon games isn't going to stop. Something has to give.
 
What I've gleaned from job postings and the couple of reasonable reports I've read, the devkit indeed runs Linux. You boot into a Linux environment, and then launch either a virtualized or "mini" HorizonOS which skips a homescreen and loads the mounted game image directly.

This allows them to use various debugging tools that launch from the Linux environment. This kind of makes sense, because Horizon is really designed for all that, and likely doesn't have kernel support for instruction counters and the like
I don't think this is true. Devkits have their own firmware builds that enables debug features including host PC communication, with the latter (the "target manager" part of the SDK) providing all the functionality that would be infeasible or inconvenient on-device. But the "DevMenu" firmware which runs on the devkit itself and controls everything there is a Switch application run by HOS, just like the home menu is on retail units. I don't think you can launch into anything else besides DevMenu, recovery mode, etc.
 
They're not Koei Tecmo who have an engine with highly mature tooling which allows them to push games out at a rapid pace, even if technical quality is sub-par.
laughs in Dynasty Warriors 9

I think Gust forked an older version of the DW engine, and Dead or Alive/Nioh/etc took the DW9 engine and forked that

not a counterpoint, but a funny occurrence

 
Pretty strong evidence that ScarVi is, in some situations, storage limited. This will not go away with new hardware, I'm afraid
If there's enough RAM to actually be holding more world data (versus something like the same amount of world at prettier detail) it gives more of a buffer before slowdown or hangs due to slow loading is necessary.
 


Pretty strong evidence that ScarVi is, in some situations, storage limited. This will not go away with new hardware, I'm afraid, and more indications that GameFreak + The Pokemon Company's ridiculous release schedule will produce bad games no matter what they run on.

The fact that Arceus seems to be the technically superior game to the point that Scarlet and Violet almost seem like an older engine, something went deeply wrong over there. Game Freak would be better off tossing their engine entirely and going with Unity, and I can't believe I'm saying that.


"Something went deeply wrong" is almost an expected statement now with every new Pokemon generation. We were saying the same thing with Sword/Shield in regard to the incredibly rushed second half of the game and non-existent story.

Nothing will ever change with these games. The 3 year cadence is here to stay, because TPC needs to sell new cards, merch, and anime. And they won't heavily invest in more devs because these games just sold 10 million in 3 days, and will likely be over 20 million before the end of the year. No point in spending more money to make sure the games are better because they're already breaking records.

It's going to be funny next year when people load up Scarlett/Violet on their Switch 2 and it performs just as horribly. That obviously won't be the fault of Drake or Nintendo, and it will only amplify the calls for TPC and GF to spend more time optimizing their games.

And people complains about the gas station Pokemon Centers and lack of interiors in Scarlett/Violet, and rightfully so. But to me, it seems obvious as to why this is the case - it's because the loading of the open world takes 7+ seconds, and GF obviously didn't want to ruin the core experience and have players sitting in a load screen half the time. So they cut out as many interiors as they could. A perfect example of limited hardware and unoptimized software influencing game design.
 


Pretty strong evidence that ScarVi is, in some situations, storage limited. This will not go away with new hardware, I'm afraid, and more indications that GameFreak + The Pokemon Company's ridiculous release schedule will produce bad games no matter what they run on.

The fact that Arceus seems to be the technically superior game to the point that Scarlet and Violet almost seem like an older engine, something went deeply wrong over there. Game Freak would be better off tossing their engine entirely and going with Unity, and I can't believe I'm saying that.

As ambitious as Legends Arceus is mechanically, it's a much more technically constrained game than SV. There's a lot of smaller things (like the smaller maps and more mission oriented gameplay loop probably making things much easier to build and more practical to track the state of everything), but the really big difference that really seems to have had a knock on effect on nearly everything is the Union Circle. Nearly everything you can do in the game now needs to be able to synchronize its state, and the actual game simulation rarely (if ever) actually stops, even in menus. This is likely the source of a lot of (but certainly not all of) the extra delays and jank relative to Arceus.

That said, the precarious nature of Game Freak's development pipeline cannot be emphasized enough. They do have multiple teams on paper, but there's a lot of evidence that it's a fairly fluid arrangement in practice. SV is most likely suffering from knock-on effects of Arceus getting impacted by covid, in addition to the direct effects of entering development just months before the pandemic started itself.
 
I gotta say, all the shit about the multiplayer feels like they unintentionally laid the groundwork for some larger online elements. maybe 31 other ghosts roaming in your area that are unloaded when you move to a new area, then a new set of ghosts are pulled from online
 
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I really hope this is a successor and not a revision, it would be such a massive waste of potential for this hardware to be held back by it's games still having to work on a Tegra X1 and so still being PS3.5 graphics just with a better framerate and sharper picture.

I'm out of the loop on this, is there any indication if this is a proper new generation?
 
I really hope this is a successor and not a revision, it would be such a massive waste of potential for this hardware to be held back by it's games still having to work on a Tegra X1 and so still being PS3.5 graphics just with a better framerate and sharper picture.

I'm out of the loop on this, is there any indication if this is a proper new generation?
For all intents and purposes, this is a successor. The hardware will exceed the ps4 in gpu and cpu (by a massive amount in the latter).

Semantically, who knows
 
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