StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[Skittzo]

I wonder…

When are we going to understand that Nintendo is not going to announce a new model or an important delay, at an investor meeting?

What's this in response to?

 

[mjayer]

So you guys don't think this is going to look significantly improved on the Switch 2?

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

So you guys don't think this is going to look significantly improved on the Switch 2?

Yes, but I don’t think using the YT videos would really paint the exact picture of what’s really going on

 

[Pavolink]

What's this in response to?

In response to using an “incorrect” article about an investor meeting as proof that there no new hardware.

Just venting. It’s kind of frustrating to see people not learn their lesson after so many times and a rich history of what to expect at what point. And like I said earlier, even if we take in count only the Switch timeline, Nintendo has not announced a new model at an investor meeting, and I don’t expect that to change in the near future.

 

[Mobius]

So you guys don't think this is going to look significantly improved on the Switch 2?

2 has no anti-aliasing iirc, not suprised if 3 is similar.

 

[Concernt]

When all splatoon fans learn what a sequel on the same system that’s multiplayer focused is, a.k.a. never.


I know some get it, but some disgruntled fans don’t and expected something else.


Once all get it though….

What are you on about? Not only have "important delays"... such as... Splatoon 3 been announced alongside investor calls so they could be included, but Splatoon 3 being on the same system should really mean it should differentiate itself MORE from the previous title, not less.

EVEN THEN, what are you trying to SAY about Splatoon 3, it has a BOATLOAD of changes and upgrades, nobody is upset about it

Anyway Fiscal Year 2022 is the goal, falling out of the fiscal year is a fiscal disaster. Chips and devices are hard to make, but regardless of number they are being made in some capacity. Not like Xbox or PlayStation delayed THEIR launch to get stock built up, why would Nintendo especially when they have a cheaper, compatible system to fall back on?

 

[ILikeFeet]

So you guys don't think this is going to look significantly improved on the Switch 2?

it'll look better IQ-wise. but object and shader detail? nah

 

[daase ko]

So you guys don't think this is going to look significantly improved on the Switch 2?

Looking at the bullshots they always use since 2, a simple resolution boost will do wonders.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

What are you on about?

Have you seen the Splatoon 3 thread? Some people are shocked a multiplayer game is doing multiplayer game things. The user asked “when will people learn” and what’s happening in that thread is a repeat of what happened with Splatoon 2. Aka, they never learned.

In essence, once every Splatoon fan learns, then maybe we will learn that Nintendo would not announce new hardware in an interview like that. Until then, like the Splatoon one, no one will learn.

And it’ll be repeated again.

Anyway Fiscal Year 2022 is the goal

That already passed.

 

[Serif]

So you guys don't think this is going to look significantly improved on the Switch 2?

This is going to look improved on Switch 1

Spoiler

with my mClassic

 

[Concernt]

That already passed.

No it didn't. FY 2022's end is March 2023.

Also being toxic about Splatoon fans doesn't change minds. You know what they say about flies, honey and vinegar.

 

[mjayer]

Looking at the bullshots they always use since 2, a simple resolution boost will do wonders.

Ya that was why I posted that. The jaggies are egregious. That alone is going to be big. BUT I also believe with this being such a tent-pole game for Nintendo that they could have gone even further in many areas of pushing the new console with this title. Time will tell.

 

[Skittzo]

No it didn't. FY 2022's end is March 2023.

Also being toxic about Splatoon fans doesn't change minds. You know what they say about flies, honey and vinegar.

Technically they usually refer to the FY by the end date, so their current FY they consider to be FY23.

Pedantry is pedantic.

 

[Foltzie]

No it didn't. FY 2022's end is March 2023.

Also being toxic about Splatoon fans doesn't change minds. You know what they say about flies, honey and vinegar.

That you catch more flies with vinegar? ;-)

 

[Bonejack]

No it didn't. FY 2022's end is March 2023.

Also being toxic about Splatoon fans doesn't change minds. You know what they say about flies, honey and vinegar.

Nope, Redd is right, Nintendo right now is in FY 2023. FY 2024 starts Calendar Year April 2023.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

No it didn't. FY 2022's end is March 2023.

FY22 already ended, we are in FY23. Nintendo goes by FY ending by March of whatever year it is, not April of the year it starts.

Also being toxic about Splatoon fans doesn't change minds. You know what they say about flies, honey and vinegar.

I wasn’t being toxic, i’m only saying people don’t learn and expect them to learn is asking for too much

 

[Concernt]

Technically they usually refer to the FY by the end date, so their current FY they consider to be FY23.

Pedantry is pedantic.

Oh right, Fiscal Year Ending Etc.

 

[Concernt]

FY22 already ended, we are in FY23. Nintendo goes by FY ending by March of whatever year it is, not April of the year it starts.

I wasn’t being toxic, i’m only saying people don’t learn and expect them to learn is asking for too much

1. That's pure pedantry. It is 2022. You know what I meant.
2. That's being toxic. You're "only saying" things that are toxic to say.

 

[Raccoon]

This is going to look improved on Switch 1

Spoiler

with my mClassic

how bad is the input lag? I can't imagine playing Splatoon with lag

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

1. That's pure pedantry. It is 2022.

And that doesn’t make you correct.

You know what I meant.
2. That's being toxic. You're "only saying" things that are toxic to say.

lol

 

[Serif]

how bad is the input lag? I can't imagine playing Splatoon with lag

Imperceptible. I play Splatoon 2 with it.

 

[Raccoon]

Imperceptible. I play Splatoon 2 with it.

color me intrigued

 

[Deleted member 341]

So you guys don't think this is going to look significantly improved on the Switch 2?

Oh no. A really zoomed in screenshot of a YT video. We need the Switch 2... now /s

 

[Serif]

color me intrigued

I won't purport to give a scientific analysis, but I'm pretty sensitive to input lag and play with motion controls, and I feel no difference.

Left: mClassic off, 1080p on 1440p monitor
Right: mClassic on, 1440p on 1440p monitor

Please ignore any color differences, I took photos of my monitor and the lighting might be different.

My copy of Xenoblade 3 is also arriving today so I'll be sharing some upscaled shots taken on my 4K TV.

 

[mjayer]

Oh no. A really zoomed in screenshot of a YT video. We need the Switch 2... now /s

It's a slightly zoomed in photo of an official Nintendo released image. There isn't much perceivable compression. Just very perceivable jaggies.

 

[Concernt]

It's a slightly zoomed in photo of an official Nintendo released image. There isn't much perceivable compression. Just very perceivable jaggies.

You are both correct.

 

[Brofield]

Truthfully what bugged me the most of the Splatoon 3 Direct were those jellyfish shopkeep bystanders on the stages and inklings/octolings hanging out on balconies in the Splatlands, seeing how they weren't being animated at 60fps like the active players were. That was more jarring to me than any jaggies (granted, the lack of AA was still annoying)

So what new hardware features would all of you like to see in the next Nintendo hardware that isn't in the Switch?

Scroll wheels for bumper triggers

Analog triggers (annoying that I'd have to buy more controllers to make up for this shortcoming, but at least it would mean F-Zero could properly take advantage of them like they did in GX), standardization of the USB-C port for power and data transfer, updated joystick components that are more drift resistant (and could be swapped into existing joycons to minimize having to buy all news ones), more shell colours and more ombre tones like they did for the Splatoon 3 OLED controllers, and I guess it's more server side than consumer but I wish their online games would more frequently support dedicated servers going forward, especially for all the investment put into NPLN.

 

[Concernt]

Scroll wheels for bumper triggers

Analog triggers (annoying that I'd have to buy more controllers to make up for this shortcoming, but at least it would mean F-Zero could properly take advantage of them like they did in GX), standardization of the USB-C port for power and data transfer, updated joystick components that are more drift resistant (and could be swapped into existing joycons to minimize having to buy all news ones), more shell colours and more ombre tones like they did for the Splatoon 3 OLED controllers, and I guess it's more server side than consumer but I wish their online games would more frequently support dedicated servers going forward, especially for all the investment put into NPLN.

Look I love Joy-Con and agree with much of this (ESPCIALLY scrolling bumpers oh my GOD that would make BOTW so much better.), but F-Zero Switch would have something the GCN version didn't; useable right control sticks. Mario Kart and a few others already use it acceleration (including Forza Horizon, believe it or not.), you don't need a camera in driving games already. So the lack of "analogue triggers" doesn't really change the mechanics of F-Zero, just which finger does it.

 

[Deleted member 1324]

Truthfully what bugged me the most of the Splatoon 3 Direct were those jellyfish shopkeep bystanders on the stages and inklings/octolings hanging out on balconies in the Splatlands, seeing how they weren't being animated at 60fps like the active players were. That was more jarring to me than any jaggies (granted, the lack of AA was still annoying)

They were animating at 15fps as the hub area is only 30fps which is why they were so jarring.

 

[Deleted member 1324]

So you guys don't think this is going to look significantly improved on the Switch 2?

Never underestimate the improvement pure pixel density makes. Even going to native 1920x1080 with any type of aa would provide a significantly sharper image for Splatoon 3. Splatoon 2 ran a lot of the time at 900p I believe.

Someone on a PC could probably take that pic and AI upscale it to 4K for you to see the difference.

I’ve been playing NSMB U Deluxe and the new MK8 Deluxe tracks docked and the difference in those first party games that are native 1080p versus the 900p and sub 900p first party games is huge on a large 4K display. I just refuse to play below 900p at this point and will wait on the new hardware for the likes of Xenoblade 3.

Even something like Pikmin 3 would look glorious at native 1080p with some decent aa.

Some of the new MK8D DLC tracks are stunning to behold. To me it looks like they’re using higher quality assets and GI as they can now target Switch instead of Wii U. The next Mario Kart built for Drake and downported to Switch is going to look bananas

 

[Brofield]

Look I love Joy-Con and agree with much of this (ESPCIALLY scrolling bumpers oh my GOD that would make BOTW so much better.), but F-Zero Switch would have something the GCN version didn't; useable right control sticks. Mario Kart and a few others already use it acceleration (including Forza Horizon, believe it or not.), you don't need a camera in driving games already. So the lack of "analogue triggers" doesn't really change the mechanics of F-Zero, just which finger does it.

That's true, I guess something like Inertial Drift that uses twin stick steering would be feasible for controls when there are no analog stick options

They were animating at 15fps as the hub area is only 30fps which is why they were so jarring.

Ahh, yeah that would explain it lol. I hope though that the extra power of the new Switch would be able to boost the framerates of those bystanders so they don't stand out for the wrong reason (even if they're not the focus in the heat of battle lol)

 

[niconiconick64]

I think Nintendo will attend the Tokyo game show next month show just to remind everyone of their 2022 titles (current and upcoming). And I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get another direct until 2023 or maybe, a single Zelda direct later this year.

Regarding the "switch pro", I honestly think the way Nintendo will try selling it to everyone is by showcasing how much better the game looks on the newer console and give the smallest attention possible to the regular switch version.
Inb4 someone says "but why would they market graphics fidelity?"
That's not really my point, I believe they will repeat the whole thing with the BOTW on switch commercials and focus on showcasing the game on the new hardware. The whole graphics part, as it's not typical of nintendo to market graphics fidelity on their games/consoles, I believe will be more of a "hey, look at this shot of our game, look at that landscape and how gorgeous it looks" instead of something like "4K ULTRA 6000 FRAMES PER SECOND AT YOUR FINGERTIPS" which is very not nintendo-like.

 

[niconiconick64]

Just one question for the more well-informed:
About this tweet, what did kopi mean by
- 1024FP32/half of Orin
1.024 TFLOP of FP32 performance or 1024 CUDA cores? Half of Orin what exactly? FP32 performance or CUDA cores?

- SEC8N/the same as Orin
SEC8N as in 8 nanometers? I'm assuming also not samsung's 8nm process? what exactly would SEC there mean?

 

[Hush]

I think Nintendo will attend the Tokyo game show next month show just to remind everyone of their 2022 titles (current and upcoming). And I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get another direct until 2023 or maybe, a single Zelda direct later this year.

Regarding the "switch pro", I honestly think the way Nintendo will try selling it to everyone is by showcasing how much better the game looks on the newer console and give the smallest attention possible to the regular switch version.
Inb4 someone says "but why would they market graphics fidelity?"
That's not really my point, I believe they will repeat the whole thing with the BOTW on switch commercials and focus on showcasing the game on the new hardware. The whole graphics part, as it's not typical of nintendo to market graphics fidelity on their games/consoles, I believe will be more of a "hey, look at this shot of our game, look at that landscape and how gorgeous it looks" instead of something like "4K ULTRA 6000 FRAMES PER SECOND AT YOUR FINGERTIPS" which is very not nintendo-like.

They are not going to skip a Fall positioned Direct (September-October) since thats what kicks off their holiday season push (showing games for the rest of this year and early next year)

 

[manfromthedam]

Some of the new MK8D DLC tracks are stunning to behold. To me it looks like they’re using higher quality assets and GI as they can now target Switch instead of Wii U.

That's interesting, I think the BCP tracks all look like an enormous step down in asset density and texture quality. A few of them look alright compared to the Deluxe tracks - Ninja Hideout, Mushroom Gorge and Sidney come to mind - but I don't see improvements myself. Could you elaborate?

 

[niconiconick64]

They are not going to skip a Fall positioned Direct (September-October) since thats what kicks off their holiday season push (showing games for the rest of this year and early next year)

I'm placing my bets on a zelda direct and twitter/youtube shadow drops until 2023.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Just one question for the more well-informed:
About this tweet, what did kopi mean by
- 1024FP32/half of Orin
1.024 TFLOP of FP32 performance or 1024 CUDA cores? Half of Orin what exactly? FP32 performance or CUDA cores?

- SEC8N/the same as Orin
SEC8N as in 8 nanometers? I'm assuming also not samsung's 8nm process? what exactly would SEC there mean?

full Orin is 2048 cuda cores. he's wondering if T239 is 1024 cores like Orin Jetson NX

and the second is Samsung 8nm

 

[Hush]

I'm placing my bets on a zelda direct and twitter/youtube shadow drops until 2023.

Zelda is probably the game they want saved till they show it on stronger hardware. I also dont think they can have another Direct with their first party MIA since it would scream ¨We are going to announce something major soon¨

All in all, I think they are going to have sow their hand next month or the one after with this new Switch because it´ll spark endless tweets and articles of why they have not announced a new flagship first party title in the last couple of Directs (if they miss the next one too I mean)

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Just one question for the more well-informed:
About this tweet, what did kopi mean by
- 1024FP32/half of Orin
1.024 TFLOP of FP32 performance or 1024 CUDA cores? Half of Orin what exactly? FP32 performance or CUDA cores?

Speculation on if T239 is half the cores. We know it is not.

- SEC8N/the same as Orin
SEC8N as in 8 nanometers? I'm assuming also not samsung's 8nm process? what exactly would SEC there mean?

SEC is Samsung Electronics Co., LTD.

8N is NVidia’s custom version of the 8nm node. It’s only for them. No one else can use it.

Kopite is speculating if it’s not on 8nm after all and on another node.

 

[Blue Monty]

I think Nintendo will attend the Tokyo game show next month show just to remind everyone of their 2022 titles (current and upcoming). And I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get another direct until 2023 or maybe, a single Zelda direct later this year.

Regarding the "switch pro", I honestly think the way Nintendo will try selling it to everyone is by showcasing how much better the game looks on the newer console and give the smallest attention possible to the regular switch version.
Inb4 someone says "but why would they market graphics fidelity?"
That's not really my point, I believe they will repeat the whole thing with the BOTW on switch commercials and focus on showcasing the game on the new hardware. The whole graphics part, as it's not typical of nintendo to market graphics fidelity on their games/consoles, I believe will be more of a "hey, look at this shot of our game, look at that landscape and how gorgeous it looks" instead of something like "4K ULTRA 6000 FRAMES PER SECOND AT YOUR FINGERTIPS" which is very not nintendo-like.

Nintendo will only be on TGS to make business with other publishers they will not have their showcase or do anything public there. TGS and Nintendo don’t have the best history together even if you ignore TGS was created to remove power from Nintendo by giving 3rd parties their own event instead of being part of spaceworld

 

[niconiconick64]

By the way, to anyone who still believes that the next switch model will use something like an overclocked X1 at a smaller node:



This video proves how poor the X1 scales @ higher clock speeds.
Even at the highest possible clock speeds for the CPU, GPU and RAM, the device struggles reaching 60fps on a fixed resolution target (on top of a 60fps unlock mod, he also applied one that disables dynamic resolution).

Just goes to show how nintendo has no reason to recycle the X1 again.
I don't know if the issues presented on the video when dynamic resolution was turned off could be fixed with simply more RAM (since that'd translate into more memory available for the iGPU). But I'm betting that it wouldn't make that much of a difference.

 

[Look over there]

Ooh, the uploader of that video posted in this thread before, I believe. IIRC, my thought as regarding the bottleneck here was more memory bandwidth than the quantity. Wouldn't running out of RAM be more catastrophic?

 

[Blue Monty]

By the way, to anyone who still believes that the next switch model will use something like an overclocked X1 at a smaller node:



This video proves how poor the X1 scales @ higher clock speeds.
Even at the highest possible clock speeds for the CPU, GPU and RAM, the device struggles reaching 60fps on a fixed resolution target (on top of a 60fps unlock mod, he also applied one that disables dynamic resolution).

Just goes to show how nintendo has no reason to recycle the X1 again.
I don't know if the issues presented on the video when dynamic resolution was turned off could be fixed with simply more RAM (since that'd translate into more memory available for the iGPU). But I'm betting that it wouldn't make that much of a difference.

If Nintendo wanted to recycle the TX1 they would have already done it in 2019, I don’t understand why people kept pushing it as an option even if you expected before the leak a ‘Nintendo gonna Nintendo’ situation

 

[MP!]

Ahh, yeah that would explain it lol. I hope though that the extra power of the new Switch would be able to boost the framerates of those bystanders so they don't stand out for the wrong reason (even if they're not the focus in the heat of battle lol)

assuming it runs like a modern engine would, it's probably a LOD effect where objects outside a certain distance will animate at lower framerates to reduce load
Elden ring does it, MH does it... lots of capcom games do it actually...
SO ... unless those assets are specifically animated at 15 FPS and hard coded to only do that ... there could be some improvement as bandwidth is increased.

 

[Deleted member 341]

It's a slightly zoomed in photo of an official Nintendo released image. There isn't much perceivable compression. Just very perceivable jaggies.

my bad. thought it was from Youtube

 

[Deleted member 1324]

That's interesting, I think the BCP tracks all look like an enormous step down in asset density and texture quality. A few of them look alright compared to the Deluxe tracks - Ninja Hideout, Mushroom Gorge and Sidney come to mind - but I don't see improvements myself. Could you elaborate?

Sorry I’m not crazy into MK fandom so don’t know the names (I do love the games though).

The tracks that stood out to me were the one that is a desert you race up where the asset quality and sheer scale and detail is phenomenal. The N64 desert one which has an incredible red GI like effect across the whole track. The Waluigi and Mushroom Gorge levels again look to me like a slight step up in geometry, lighting and asset quality over the base Deluxe games content. Of course not a generational leap and it could just be art direction and taste but they blew me away personally especially Mushroom Gorge with the paragoombas by the side of the track at one point, the lighting is insane. I also wasn’t impressed with Wave 1 visually by the way. This feels like it had much more time in the oven.

The New York and Sydney ones are decent but you can tell they’re made from more simple geometry, lower detail textures and the art style is slightly different I suppose owing to the fact they’re mobile tracks.

 

[Deleted member 1324]

By the way, to anyone who still believes that the next switch model will use something like an overclocked X1 at a smaller node:



This video proves how poor the X1 scales @ higher clock speeds.
Even at the highest possible clock speeds for the CPU, GPU and RAM, the device struggles reaching 60fps on a fixed resolution target (on top of a 60fps unlock mod, he also applied one that disables dynamic resolution).

Just goes to show how nintendo has no reason to recycle the X1 again.
I don't know if the issues presented on the video when dynamic resolution was turned off could be fixed with simply more RAM (since that'd translate into more memory available for the iGPU). But I'm betting that it wouldn't make that much of a difference.

Is this the guy who has Zelda and Xenoblade 3 running at 60fps if so what resolution is he running them at to hit 60?

 

[Concernt]

Sorry I’m not crazy into MK fandom so don’t know the names (I do love the games though).

The tracks that stood out to me were the one that is a desert you race up where the asset quality and sheer scale and detail is phenomenal. The N64 desert one which has an incredible red GI like effect across the whole track. The Waluigi and Mushroom Gorge levels again look to me like a slight step up in geometry, lighting and asset quality over the base Deluxe games content. Of course not a generational leap and it could just be art direction and taste but they blew me away personally especially Mushroom Gorge with the paragoombas by the side of the track at one point, the lighting is insane. I also wasn’t impressed with Wave 1 visually by the way. This feels like it had much more time in the oven.

The New York and Sydney ones are decent but you can tell they’re made from more simple geometry, lower detail textures and the art style is slightly different I suppose owing to the fact they’re mobile tracks.

While New York Minute is geometrically simpler, the lighting and some of the texture quality has been improved, especially the road surface, compared to the base game.

 

[manfromthedam]

While New York Minute is geometrically simpler, the lighting and some of the texture quality has been improved, especially the road surface, compared to the base game.

Road surfaces are the single standout in the BCP tracks, they're a clear step up. Which is sometimes jarring if you look at the lack of texture detail in other spots. Not sure if this is technical or art design.

 

[Serif]

Is this the guy who has Zelda and Xenoblade 3 running at 60fps if so what resolution is he running them at to hit 60?

This channel has BotW, Xenoblade 1 2 3 etc. at 60 fps on Mariko, resolution mods he linked to drop res as low as 480p-648p (for BotW), he chooses to hit the lower bound to avoid overheating.