LiC
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You mean use the CPU from that SoC with an Ampere dGPU? I feel like that's not possible for multiple reasons, and just using discrete components in a box (like almost all devkits pre-Switch) would be easier.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
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Why wouldn’t it be? NVidia already has some form of this:
You just wouldn’t use the iGPU that the soc has, you have the option to, but why would you if the final isn’t supposed to have that?
It’s not like AMD and Intel don’t let you use a dGPU instead of their iGPUs for their CPUs.
LiC
Member
Still think there are several reasons this arrangement either wouldn't be possible (Ampere GPU on a much older board) or desirable (if it's a dGPU then you're not accurately representing SoC behavior e.g. UMA, so what's the point of doing it). And there's no evidence that such a thing ever existed.Why wouldn’t it be? NVidia already has some form of this:
You just wouldn’t use the iGPU that the soc has, you have the option to, but why would you if the final isn’t supposed to have that?
It’s not like AMD and Intel don’t let you use a dGPU instead of their iGPUs for their CPUs.
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There doesn’t need to be evidence of it existing, it’s something that does happen. Even the PS5 earliest devkits used the PS4 Pro as the basis (as per Richard) before the newer silicon happened that actually had PS5 hardware in it. It was PS4 Pro thing> Ariel(Navi based, lacked RT) > Oberon (retail silicon + RT)
And I’m not sure why worrying so much about it representing accurate SoC behavior at that stage with such an early devkit is necessary, you aren’t coding as that for the final hardware and it’s only a temporary stopgap until something better happens to come by. The NVN2 api even mentioned allowance for Turing even though Ampere is desired, if I’m not mistaken.
The timeframe of 2020 would have been too early to have an actual SoC in a tablet like the current switch devkits are.
A likely timeframe is:
2020-2021 a temporary devkit was given to developers
2021-2022 ORIN based devkits were given in place of the temporary previous devkit
2022-2023 actual closer to final silicon devkits are given to work with.
LiC
Member
Turing support isn't a stop-gap, it's the minimum supported generation so that the Windows reference implementation can work for developers who don't have access to a 30-series GPU.
The Occam's Razor explanation for a devkit before Orin is ad-hoc components in a box, like almost all early devkits in the history of devkits. I think people just keep bringing up Xavier because there was some kind of unsubstantiated rumor/speculation about it back in the earliest days of "Switch Pro" reporting.
LiC
Member
Am I wrong in thinking there are discrete (to an extent) ARM CPUs they could just buy and use? I'd think using a Tegra just for its CPU would add complexity and expense compared to another off-the-shelf part without a GPU, but I could be wrong.
Alovon11
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not really, ARM can't just be plopped in to a motherboard socket, they are integrated with the GPU inside it.etc as part of the design, to my knowledge there is no "plug and play" socket for ARM so a box-solution for a ARM device would require using an existing SoC/board.
Thus why Clara AGX fits as NVIDIA produces that
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I wasn’t referring to using Turing as a stop-gap, I was using Turing as an example because you mentioned that it’s not likely to use an Ampere card due to being on an older board, but the Clara AGX Xavier devkit uses a Turing based GPU. Of course they can use a newer card, they aren’t hard limited to Turing if they have a newer card.
I feel like you’re thinking that I’m referring to something completely different from what I’m referring to, I’m literally referring to a Tegra Xavier with a discrete GPU as the early development environment, rather than using the integrated GPU there is Volta based in the Xavier chip. I’m not discussing a GPU and the SoC on the same board soldered on, I’m discussing what is basically putting a graphics card onto the motherboard via the lanes to work with the SOC.
This isn’t outside of what NVidia can do and they offer it whether for education or for development.
There’s more info on the Clara AGX kit if you’re curious:
The only reason people bring it up is because it’s the only most recent soc from nVidia that is ARM based and isn’t using the same cores as the switch, the A57.
ARM doesn’t have any discrete ARM CPUs to work with in a form like this, as they license their IPs to their licensees and work with them to implement it at the foundries. Mali is usually the option as that is the GPU IP that ARM offers, but it would be RDNA2 (Samsung case) or Adreno (Qualcomm case). ARM doesn’t make CPUs themselves at all.
They have a sever class product, but that has several dozen ARM cores (some over 100, others over 60).
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LiC
Member
Sure, but there are "CPU only" SoCs by other vendors out there, right? If one of those supported an Nvidia dGPU, it would be a viable alternative to a Tegra.
Hmm, I thought that it would have been an older architecture. If it's Turing then it would have been possible to use (though Ampere probably would not have been).
I still wonder how they’ll hit 21m units shipped without new hardware…
If DLSS Switch comes out this year, it will look obvious to half of us. If it doesn’t, it will look obvious to the other half.
If DLSS Switch comes out this year, it will look obvious to half of us. If it doesn’t, it will look obvious to the other half.
MetalLord
Koopa
mariodk18
Install Base Forum Namer
How did previous revisions/consoles affect their FY forecast? Did they just slot them in later?
Sidenote:
I find it funny how there are people that say the next Switch isn't coming anytime soon and act like that Nintendo doesn't need to release before 2024...yet this thread is by far the most visited on the entire forum with over a million views.
Sidenote:
I find it funny how there are people that say the next Switch isn't coming anytime soon and act like that Nintendo doesn't need to release before 2024...yet this thread is by far the most visited on the entire forum with over a million views.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Not directly related to Switch but it looks like AMD is working on the successor of Van Goh (potentially could be in Steam Deck's successor), and it is apparently based on the upcoming Phoenix design (the APU would be for low power gaming laptops ).
Long story short, 4 core/8 thread Zen 4 CPU and RDNA 3 GPU with higher clock speeds (4GHz CPU and +2Ghz GPU) Can also get the 128 bit controller LPDDR5 or even lpddr5x (102-133GB/s bandwidth) with potentially 50% more CPU power and 60% more GPU power than the Steam Deck, and even up to 50% more bandwidth. CPU and GPU clocks will be like 25% higher but there will be new architecture efficiencies as well to boot which brings it to 50-60% more power overall.
It's expected to be released in late 2023 or early 2024 on a 4nm node (from Stream Deck's 7nm APU) with the die size of 110-150mm^2
This reminds me a lot like the 20nm tx1 to 16/12nm Mariko jump... or at least Mariko could have easily been a 50% bump in CPU and GPU with the same clock speeds..
But anyway, would be interesting to see Steam Deck 2's power draw at 4nm TSMC... Would it be able to hold the same power draw as steam deck or better? Even though we never really saw 1.6 TFLOPs in steam deck in action.. 2.56 TFLOPs at 15 watts handheld would be a sight to behold.
wccftech.com
Long story short, 4 core/8 thread Zen 4 CPU and RDNA 3 GPU with higher clock speeds (4GHz CPU and +2Ghz GPU) Can also get the 128 bit controller LPDDR5 or even lpddr5x (102-133GB/s bandwidth) with potentially 50% more CPU power and 60% more GPU power than the Steam Deck, and even up to 50% more bandwidth. CPU and GPU clocks will be like 25% higher but there will be new architecture efficiencies as well to boot which brings it to 50-60% more power overall.
It's expected to be released in late 2023 or early 2024 on a 4nm node (from Stream Deck's 7nm APU) with the die size of 110-150mm^2
This reminds me a lot like the 20nm tx1 to 16/12nm Mariko jump... or at least Mariko could have easily been a 50% bump in CPU and GPU with the same clock speeds..
But anyway, would be interesting to see Steam Deck 2's power draw at 4nm TSMC... Would it be able to hold the same power draw as steam deck or better? Even though we never really saw 1.6 TFLOPs in steam deck in action.. 2.56 TFLOPs at 15 watts handheld would be a sight to behold.
AMD Possibly Readying A Van Gogh Successor Based on Phoenix Point APU Design, Could Power Next-Gen Valve Steam Deck Handheld Console With Zen 4 & RDNA 3 Cores
AMD is working on its Van Gogh SOC successor that shares a design similar to Phoenix APUs & targets next-gen Steam Deck handheld console.
wccftech.com
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I wonder if valve has more of a say in the design of Van Gogh 2, similar to how Nintendo has with t239. Van Goghs development I assume was well underway by the time they got the valve contract, so it was probably to late to do significant adjustments (similar to tx1).Not directly related to Switch but it looks like AMD is working on Van Goh's APU (potentially Steam Deck's successor), and it could be based on the upcoming Phoenix design (the APU would be for low power gaming laptops ).
Long story short, 4 core/8 thread Zen 4 CPU and RDNA 3 GPU with higher clock speeds (4GHz CPU and +2Ghz GPU) Can also get the 128 bit controller LPDDR5 or even lpddr5x (102-133GB/s bandwidth) with potentially 50% more CPU power and 60% more GPU power than the Steam Deck, and even up to 50% more bandwidth. CPU and GPU clocks will be like 25% higher but there will be new architecture efficiencies as well to boot which brings it to 50-60% more power overall.
It's expected to be released in late 2023 or early 2024 on a 4nm node (from Stream Deck's 7nm APU) with the die size of 110-150mm^2
This reminds me a lot like the 20nm tx1 to 16/12nm Mariko jump... or at least Mariko could have easily been a 50% bump in CPU and GPU with the same clock speeds..
But anyway, would be interesting to see Steam Deck 2's power draw at 4nm TSMC... Would it be able to hold the same power draw as steam deck or better? Even though we never really saw 1.6 TFLOPs in steam deck in action.. 2.56 TFLOPs at 15 watts handheld would be a sight to behold.
AMD Possibly Readying A Van Gogh Successor Based on Phoenix Point APU Design, Could Power Next-Gen Valve Steam Deck Handheld Console With Zen 4 & RDNA 3 Cores
AMD is working on its Van Gogh SOC successor that shares a design similar to Phoenix APUs & targets next-gen Steam Deck handheld console.
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No, what I meant by too early is that given the timeline of everything, an actual Final chip in 2020 would have been too early. The development essentially started in 2020 with demoing in 2019. This is an assumption, but based on information of what is possible, this is what I speculate could be happening:
in 2020 and perhaps parts of 2021, there was a devkit that contained a tegra soc (Xavier probably) and an RTX GPU in a small PC box.
This would have made it difficult to actually spot if someone came to investigate if some studios did have devkits because it wouldn’t look like a tablet at all. It would just look like a PC.
Through 2021 and perhaps parts of 2022, it’s possible that they moved to an actual soc for further development and the ORIN soc is possible to facilitate the development better than the mini PC box. ORIN was already copyright by nVidia in 2021, it’s not known when though.
At least it based on this:
While now in 2022 and possibly 2023(?) or later this year and into 2023 for a late 23 launch, the actual final silicon would be in a devkit that is in a tablet.
That’s just a speculative timeline given what we know and can infer. The very early comment was referring to actually having a final silicon in a tablet. It would have been too early by then.
Keep in mind, the devkits have been out, supposedly by September 2020 report. It’s been nearing 2 years since, as if we take Mochizuki’s reporting and factor in a timeframe of acquiring information I’d guess a couple of weeks before that report? Late July to early august? That’s, again, just my speculation.
That was the report of “make 4K switch games”
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How do people expect them to advertise this when it's finally revealed? Most new hardware from Nintendo normally has some sort of gimmick they can focus on but if the Switch Pro is simply a power upgrade with nothing else I wonder how they'll market it. It'd be weird to see them talk about specs or power so I guess they'll probably go the simple route and just talk about how games look nicer and run better on the new hardware. I expect the name will sort of reflect that as well, something straight to the point like Switch 4K.
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It's either going to be similar to the new 3DS where they talk about games running better or there might be some kind of AI hook they add thanks to having access to tensor cores. It could come with a built in AI assistant like Mary O, or maybe launch with a new Nintendogs that has AI pet behavior.
Dekuman
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i think it's going to be more mundane than that. Yes, some games like Nintendogs may make use of tensor cores annd use it to imrpove AI but that will be on a game to game basis, and with Nintendo they may just quickly bulletpoint about the dogs being more real than ever.
On a macro level, I suspect they will lean in heavily on the upscaling capabilities and either market the 4K aspect or some analog word that implies it runs at a high resolution.
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I was discussing the "pitch" with a friend earlier this week. The gimmick of the Nintendo Switch, per Takahashi, is "a home console you can take with you on the go." Implicit to this gimmick is power. It is important to the USP of the product that it be at least somewhat capable compared to the leading home consoles, so an upgrade that is solely focused on narrowing the power gap actually makes a lot of sense.
We joke about unrealistic expectations like "a portable Series S," but that isn't especially different from saying "a portable home console." The Series S is the weakest standard for a home console in the current market, so the closer Nintendo can get to that the better.
We joke about unrealistic expectations like "a portable Series S," but that isn't especially different from saying "a portable home console." The Series S is the weakest standard for a home console in the current market, so the closer Nintendo can get to that the better.
Dekuman
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I still think Series S is there to line up with the next Switch as a kind of implicit agreement between Nintendo and Microsoft.
Do I have any proof? No. But either way, the product exists and it sets a much lower bound for Switch to hit to get a lot of current gen games.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't feel like it needs a selling point other than the benefits of better performance i.e. higher resolutions, framerates, loading times, etc. They'll market 4K capability like they marketed the Wii U's HD 1080p capabilities on the box.
If this is the "Game Boy Advance" of the Switch family then it can just be introduced as a more powerful Switch, as I don't think the GBA was marketed as anything but a souped up next-gen Game Boy that could be a portable SNES. Especially if it launches with third-party exclusives that can't be played on an original Switch. Maybe they introduce a joy-con revision alongside it.
Down the line I think Nintendo will introduce a third-pillar console that uses an Nvidia chip e.g. a mixed-reality headset because I think they'll dip their toes in it eventually.
If this is the "Game Boy Advance" of the Switch family then it can just be introduced as a more powerful Switch, as I don't think the GBA was marketed as anything but a souped up next-gen Game Boy that could be a portable SNES. Especially if it launches with third-party exclusives that can't be played on an original Switch. Maybe they introduce a joy-con revision alongside it.
Down the line I think Nintendo will introduce a third-pillar console that uses an Nvidia chip e.g. a mixed-reality headset because I think they'll dip their toes in it eventually.
Dekuman
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Right , and Nintendo iirc never directly marketed it as a portable SNES. They simply let the games show it as such.
So if this is called the Switch Advance they can just show a lot of current gen games running on it in the reveal trailer and leave it at that.
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
I just remembered... wasn't a reason Nintendo avoided x y buttons on the GBA was to avoid devs just straight porting their SNES games? So much for that.
I hope RE4 remake is on Switch Advance, Capcom definitely has devkits, I hope that's one of the games they're aiming to port.
I hope RockstarGames is one of them, I am craving to play RDR2 on a Nintendo console.
Sometimes I believe this is the reason why that game has still not been updated for next-gen, but I think I am just high on hopium.
Blue Monty
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I wouldn’t trust Capcom on porting next-gen only games, they have shown low comittment to supporting Nintendo hardware outside of a couple of franchises (MH,Megaman and AA). I expect almost all their ps4 catalog ported but not the next-gen only titles. Maybe something like a Rev 3 or another spin-off series that tries to recover the JP market lost by modern RE would make it to Drake
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Considering Zynga had it allegedly, Rockstar was so close but so far you could say
Now that you say it, maybe Take-Two bought Zynga to get their hands on the devkits??? (just joking)Considering Zynga had it allegedly, Rockstar was so close but so far you could say
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Dekuman
Kremling
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This is nonesense. When Capcom was on MT framework Nintendo got all the games they could put on their platforms. The gap was simply too big between the 3DS and the PS3/360 for some games like the RE5/6 games.
The biggest issue this gen was the RE engine wasn't ported to the platform until Rise. If that's the engine they go forward with and there's a more powerful Switch released they will put all the games they can on that platform.
People often confuse Capcom's weird support as a kind of slight, I understood it to mean they really want to support the Switch but the technology roadmap between Nintendo/Capcom just wasn't aligned this gen when Capcom switched over to more strongly support the PC/PS4/Xbox market.
Hosermess
Koopa
Didn't someone make a very cryptic post that alluded to Rockstar having a devkit?
Don't think it was a Hidden-like poster either (who went, in a few days, from posting almost random stuff in here to having leaks from the "deep webz"....that was fun though) and I don't think it was in this thread.
Don't think it was a Hidden-like poster either (who went, in a few days, from posting almost random stuff in here to having leaks from the "deep webz"....that was fun though) and I don't think it was in this thread.
Lovely Lily Bones
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For real! MonHun Rise was a five year commitment that started before the Switch was even a proven sales success. Every RE that could run on base Switch is on there. There's practically no better Switch partner than Capcom. Of course they'll be all over the new hardware.
Considering that Nintendo published the physical release of the GTA Trilogy, I would really not be suprised if Rockstar were one of the first to get a devkit. In the past we had a few exclusive games from Rockstar for Nintendo hardware, but that was loooong ago.
Blue Monty
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Koei Tecmo committed all their internal studios bar 1 (team Ninja) to make Switch versions of their games since Switch release. Capcom on the other hand only old ports, budget releases (which considering Capcom current state were minimal) and one big game in MH:Rise. I don't think just one big game in MH:Rise and a mid sized one in MH:Stories 2 makes Capcom support of the console top tier when their real support of the console 2017-2020 was close to none and after MH:Rise/MH:Stories it has almost been minimal again.
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Imo a more likely theory (also with no proof), is that Xbox is developing an Xbox handheld, using 2nd or third generation Van Gogh apu that will run the entire Xbox library with series s settings.
Cool theory, but gonna need a shred of proof before I even entertain it.
Imo a more likely theory (also with no proof), is that Xbox is developing an Xbox handheld, using 2nd or third generation Van Gogh apu that will run the entire Xbox library with series s settings.
bloopland33
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I know what you’re talking about. Can’t remember the poster though…it was a few months ago. I feel like it was a semi-regular poster in this thread? On the tip of my tongue.
D
Deleted member 2548
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Capcom's early Switch support mirrors their early PS4/X1 support, barring titles Sony/MS paid for. It took years for them to develop tools (RE Engine) for major original titles. The difference is they haven't really followed up in regular offerings for Switch specifically in the way they were able to crank out RE games every year for the other system while Rev 3 is nowhere in sight. KT and Square Enix could both be considered better partners, but I do think Capcom could easily be swayed into including Nintendo SKUs as long as the hardware capabilities are there.
Let’s be real, it would miss out on a lot of games no matter what.
Even in a scenario where it matched series s in every category (it will be significantly behind in cpu and storage speed, and as you mentioned game sizes).
Blue Monty
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As 2K has shown with their games, if cart size is a problem they will just force the games to be a coder/need downloads. It's not a real excuse in most of the cases, internal storage could be but that's another thing
YolkFolk
Tingle
Minecraft aside, Monster Hunter Rise is the premier first party title on Switch in my view in terms of quality/effort etc.
Shiba
Bob-omb
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I'm frankly amazed how Rise runs and looks on switch when others games that are even less impressive from third parties, indies, to first parties are subpar in both performance and resolution.
The fact that you can have a 4 players and their AI companion beating down on a monster in a biggish map with the all the effects with barely any drops in resolution or framerate is astonishing. More so when you factor in rampages where you have more monsters in one space and all the stuff happening during that.
Nintendo can learn a thing or two from Capcom for how effective they are.
Dekuman
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everything addressed in the same post you quoted. I have no proof and you won't get any unless an exec tells you in an interview ten years later, but ultimately the hardware is there and provides a lower bound for Switch to hit.
Strongest evidence of RDR2 eventually coming to Switch is this unused asset:
You can also find the string "nx64" in the main executable. (might be related to the game engine RAGE since it also mentions the Wii iirc)
ezidro3
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Like one of the replies in the tweet says, this might've been for Stadia? Considering Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1&2 leaked in a similar way but also had Portable mode and Joy-Con grip images, while this only has the Pro Controller since Stadia doesn't support the Joy-Cons.
Haida
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Would this not just be for PC when you plug in a Pro controller?
OP
OP
Not only file size, but sequential speeds, especially as more and more games take advantage of the sequential speeds of the internal NVMe SSD storage on the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X|S. (Of course, Nintendo could follow Sony and Microsoft in terms of mandating the installation of games in the internal storage, no matter which medium: physical or digital.)
I feel like the Enix side of Square Enix did almost all the heavy lifting in terms of supporting the Nintendo Switch.
mariodk18
Install Base Forum Namer
Why not both?
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