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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
- Start date
clock speeds (and additionally, amount of ram). you can remedy that with higher power limits, but you chew through battery life and heat up the system significantly
mariodk18
Install Base Forum Namer
I see, That makes sense. But GPUs have clock speeds as well right? Why is it rare to hear about a GPU bottleneck in a console?
Look over there
Bob-omb
The impression I have is that a lot of the workloads that the GPU is responsible for in a game are, relatively, easier to scale downward compared to what the CPU would be responsible for.
For example, from the end user side, a lot of knobs/settings related to how fabulous things look can be turned down. But is dialing down AI or physics in the same class of ease/complexity? I get the impression of, no, they're not.
For example, from the end user side, a lot of knobs/settings related to how fabulous things look can be turned down. But is dialing down AI or physics in the same class of ease/complexity? I get the impression of, no, they're not.
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It helps that GPUs are largely parallel, CPUs aren’t.
GPU bottlenecks certainly happen, but they're less common on consoles, partly because graphics workloads are much more inherently tunable, with a lot of parameters that can be adjusted that affect performance and a lot of things that can be cut without impacting the core experience, but also because a lot of more recent consoles have been a bit limited in terms of CPU and RAM for a variety of reasons (A57 and (especially) Jaguar not being the best CPU cores ever, memory costs increasing, memory bandwidth being generally a bit low on battery powered devices). On PC, where you have a lot more control over graphics settings and big, power hungry CPUs are available, you can pretty easily get yourself GPU bottlenecked.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
I believe it was posted on the previous page on Post #11,291.
7.1-8.9 watts handheld and 11 watts docked. Docked watt usage doesn't include when joycon controllers are charging.
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Playing With Power: A Look At Nintendo Switch Power Consumption
This should answer your question, worth the read.
Mr Swine
Like Like
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Ok, it would be feasible (depending on which node Nintendo goes with) for Nintendo to go with 10-12 watts undocked and 15-18 watts docked if cooling can manage that.
Also would ram bandwidth at 65-75GB/s be more than enough for the Switch in undocked mode? With the latest texture, color and memory compression and more cache it would be overkill with 88GB/s?
BlueManifest
Bob-omb
You wouldn’t get it until the 4Q, then the new switch would only be a few months from releasing by the time you got it
Switch sales continue falling in Japan and the drop from last year is accelerating. We don't know if this trend is reflected in other regions, but if it is 2022 looking much weaker than 2021. Especially since no new model will come later and BotW 2 was delayed.
Blue Monty
Inkling
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In Europe is up YoY and in Japan low sales are due to no MH:Rise and April being one of the slowest seasons when it comes to sales in Japan almost always outside having a AC/MH:Rise situation ; now with Golden Week it will recover sales and it's still on pace for a 4M+ year easily it's also selling quite above 2019 level of sales in Japan also so there is rush new hardware, not reaching peak 2020/2021 sales doesn't mean that much when only DS/peak Wii have been able to sell this level of sales and it's still selling a lot better than a console in their 6th year should sell. I'm not saying we are not getting a new Switch due to high sales just that if we get one is not to the decline of sales.
Vanillalite
Bob-omb
RAM amount tends to be less of a bottleneck these days other than bandwidth. Gone are the 360/PS3 days where in 2011 Bethesda was trying to develop Skyrim knowing they still were stuck with 512 on consoles.
CPUs just were shitty last gen with little choice as AMD was doing all of the board work and didn’t have much to offer before they got their shit together. Think less CPU bottlenecks being common and more got damn the Jaguar cores were fucking terrible.
Its much easier to scale down to a weaker gpu, than scale down to a weaker cpu and less ram.
The Matrix Awakens enters the chat
D
Deleted member 1324
Guest
My friend is selling his for what he paid as he doesn’t use it.
Hosermess
Koopa
While I don't know what that tweet means, lol, I decided to check in on an old friend and found some tweets with a word I actually recognized.
And in his replies to other tweets he says "It was an Ampere refresh before, but things had changed." and answer "So ada is more powerful than expected" with "yes".
Doesn't add a whole lot though, but maybe some people will find it interesting. And maybe it's entirely irrelevant after the Nvidia leak.
And in his replies to other tweets he says "It was an Ampere refresh before, but things had changed." and answer "So ada is more powerful than expected" with "yes".
Doesn't add a whole lot though, but maybe some people will find it interesting. And maybe it's entirely irrelevant after the Nvidia leak.
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Future Boy Nemo
Daydream Believer
If Ada has incorporated Hopper features but is still called Ada, and the chip names (AD102 for example) are still the same, I wonder if that might lend credence to the theory GA10F was Dane and later evolved into Drake.
The likeliest scenario is that on Nvidia and Nintendo's side nothing has changed and Dane was just a mistake one or two people made that blew up, but it's an interesting possibility. If it is the case, would that increase the likelihood of Drake being on a more advanced node than Samsung 8N? Since it would imply GA10F was held back in some way to be modified (perhaps when it split from Orin to support CUDA 8.8 vs Orin's 8.7?), giving more time for a potential change of process node.
Hosermess
Koopa
I also went back to check on something else I was keeping an eye on...pretty sure it was initiated by somebody in this thread but can't recall who. So maybe it's not worth posting but I figured this possibly might be a little more fodder for the people here who enjoy napkin math.
Forum Q and reply:
https://forums.developer.nvidia.com...ck-speeds-at-15w-and-other-questions/209852/5
Link:
Official Orin Supported Modes and Power Efficiency
Forum Q and reply:
https://forums.developer.nvidia.com...ck-speeds-at-15w-and-other-questions/209852/5
Link:
Official Orin Supported Modes and Power Efficiency
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Well, my launch Switch has officially reached the state of being old/busted enough actually being held together with tape
specifically the kickstand, it doesn't stay in on it's own anymore
That new unit is coming sometime soon, right? Within the next year or so?
specifically the kickstand, it doesn't stay in on it's own anymore
That new unit is coming sometime soon, right? Within the next year or so?
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If you can wait for next year, sure. Though if you buy an OLED this year, then you would be close to the next device anyway.
Note: I feel like it’s ripe for next year, others feel like it’s ripe for this year.
Note 2: this is all still speculation, so it should be taken with a grain of salt. If you don’t feel like anything is really coming then go ahead and get the OLED, it’s a really nice upgrade. If you feel like it’s worth it then go for it.
Kevin
Chain Chomp
Nobody knows anything. Mostly just hopes and dreams of new hardware sometime in 2023. Might as well just grab an OLED for the time being. Could be years away from new hardware.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
I recently got an OLED to replace my launch switch. If you're a handheld player, the upgrade is absolutely worth it. Build quality is better, screen is gorgeous, plus you get the battery life upgrade.
It took me months to get an OLED. I'm assuming whenever Switch.Next launches, it will be the same
unless Digital Foundry or ElAnalistaDeBits cover it, there aren't really any tech-oriented channels that cover Switch
Rogue Agent
Octorok
If by the end of May there are no leaks, nothing indicating that it's being manufactured and Nintendo's hardware forecast suggests that that it's not even coming this fiscal year, then I concede.
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I'm gradually convincing myself of an early 2023 launch, but I really don't like it.
Splatoon 3, Xeno 3, Sunbreak, and the rumored Metroid Prime remake were at the top of my list for hopeful 'revision' updates. Even if we do see the updates for all of these come through, it's gonna be a painful wait.
OP
OP
Nvidia Poaches Intel Alder Lake Architect to Strengthen Arm CPU Push
Another high-profile personnel "exchange".
www.tomshardware.com
Crusters
Koopa
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Bruh, I'm still waiting for a super fighting robot to release in the year 200X.
SiG
Chain Chomp
Will ARM-based CPUs in finally be a thing in the Windows/Linux side of PCs as well?Nvidia Poaches Intel Alder Lake Architect to Strengthen Arm CPU Push
Another high-profile personnel "exchange".
Shameless plug: Get 13 Sentinels Aegis Rim on Switch. It's quite the beautiful game on the system and it seems nothing has been sacrificed in this port.
SiG
Chain Chomp
I really hope Linux gets a good foothold this gen. Windows 11 is getting to be rather bloated for my tastes...
...Bringing us back to the Switch successor: Will Nintendo bring back themes, or keep the OS lean like before?
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Conveniently, ORIN and all other Tegras use Linux iirc.
So.
It’s already on ARM.
So.
It’s already on ARM.
SiG
Chain Chomp
Most people refer to the Android fork when it comes to Linux on ARM. And Android is...overhead galore.
SiG
Chain Chomp
Yeah, but ARM PCs in general haven't gotten that much traction...yet.
Compared to Windows, Linux is much further along, in part because open source means that you don't even really need emulation unless you want to run stuff like games. Linux is just a lot more niche than Windows, so you don't really see it as much.
Like for example, all of the Raspberry Pis are small ARM computers than run Linux.
SiG
Chain Chomp
And that's where I'm getting at: When will mainstream PCs fully embrace ARM architecture? Apple has started doing it with thier M1 line.
Going back to Switch, I've heard a bunch of arguments about how Nintendo should consider moving to RISC-V, but if I'm not mistaken, wasn't the N64 a RISC processor?
John Omaha
Moblin
The Switch also has a RISC CPU. In fact, all Nintendo platforms since the N64 have used RISC CPUs.
I don’t see the argument for moving from ARM to RISC-V. The main advantage to using the latter is open source and the lack of royalty fees, but Nintendo don’t design their own processors. They’re better off piggybacking on the advances in the mobile space, most of which will continue to use ARM for quite some time.
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Linux as a desktop OS isn't really mainstream, and Windows was, at least until recently, being held back by a bad deal with Qualcomm (is it just me, or is this sort of a pattern with Qualcomm).
Yeah, but the Switch also has a RISC CPU. RISC is a design philosophy for CPU ISAs that both ARM and MIPS (what the N64 used) generally adhere to. RISC-V is a specific ISA, which obviously also adheres to the RISC philosophy. RISC-V is probably the biggest long-term threat to ARM's dominance right now (x86 seems to be on a path towards slowly fading into irrelevance), but it's not at the point where it's competitive outside of some specific niches quite yet.
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Nintendo is interesting because, they’ve almost always been with RISC-based processors.
Whether coincidental or by design.
Whether coincidental or by design.
Not really what I mean, you can program and use the Tegras like a processor for developing on Linux. And it functions like the other Linux based PCs. It’s not really the android fork for this afaik. But Linux is so painfully niche as a platform.
It’s not just you lol.
To be precise, desktop Linux is niche. Server, phone, and embedded Linux are varying degrees of dominant.
I'm not really familiar with what specific flavor of Linux Nvidia derived Linux for Tegra from, but at a glance, it looks distinctly not Android. Android and its derivatives have a very unusual userland which is very different from more traditional Linux distros.
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