StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[LinkURL]

Goddamn now I understand why Americans constantly say videogames are too cheap: you people have twice the gdp per capita of my country AND constantly get deals like these?

Brazilians paying 1/4 of a minimun wage for a game

 

[lemonfresh]

common misconception. Animal Crossing and Splatoon don't actually have that much development overlap

you learn something new everyday

 

[Goodtwin]

Is the primary debate about node based on concern/wonder of efficiency?

Concern and practicality. If it's 8nm, the question is why? It's would be big and power hungry and clock speeds would need to be low, but they can only go so low before the power curve flat lines and even then we are looking at power draw significantly higher than the Erista Tegra X1. It would be a very inefficient design for a product like Switch, and seeing as it's a custom design, that can't be the case.

 

[Raccoon]

Source?

With that said, this is how it is for the most recent games of both franchises: There's 42 staff shared, most of them artists. Most of the AC leads have been the same since Happy Home Designer. So around 39% of the Splatoon 2 staff worked on New Horizons, and 10% of the New Horizons staff worked on Splatoon 2. Here's the results:

42 may seem significant but EPD has a big art pool with overlap between producers and therefore "groups"

if there was really any significant mutual exclusion we probably wouldn't have gotten Animal Crossing in 2020 and Splatoon in 2022

 

[Hermii]

(That's if Nintendo does decide to use an adhesive pull tab for the battery for Nintendo's new hardware to comply with the EU's law.)

I mean the law is the law. I don't see how they can chose not to comply with it.

Unless you meant they can find another solution that complies with the law.

 

[Raccoon]

New Horizons’s deserted island concept can be traced back to right after the Japanese release of Animal Crossing: New Leaf in 2012. Early development began shortly after, even before the team hunkered down to produce New Leaf Welcome Amiibo, the upgraded version from 2016.

Kyogoku said the development cycle for New Horizons kick-started before the team even began “thinking or knowing about Nintendo Switch hardware.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2020/03/23/nintendo-explains-philosophy-behind-animal-crossings-big-changes-like-gender-expression-terraforming/

splatoon and animal crossing can't really share a "team" if new horizons has been in pre-production since before splatoon was even thought of

 

[Dakhil]

I mean the law is the law. I don't see how they can chose not to comply with it.

Unless you meant they can find another solution that complies with the law.

I meant the latter.

 

[qwerp]

42 may seem significant but EPD has a big art pool with overlap between producers and therefore "groups"

if there was really any significant mutual exclusion we probably wouldn't have gotten Animal Crossing in 2020 and Splatoon in 2022

42 is a pretty significant overlap, especially within an internal team within an internal studio. This doesn't mean they can't begin work on a new project until the current one is completely finished.

They were able to release those games close together like that because they lacked content when they first released. New Horizons was lacking a LOT of features when it first released, as with Splatoon 3 to a smaller extent. The latter also being heavily built off its predecessor.

Animal Crossing games take longer to develop than Splatoon games. If they were going to make Animal Crossing a launch title, they would not release it in an incomplete state.

 

[Raccoon]

42 is a pretty significant overlap, especially within an internal team within an internal studio.

EPD doesn't have teams, it has leads and staff that are picked up for projects

that 42 is out of a pool of like 600, which isn't entirely negligible of course but to say that "the team" was busy on Splatoon is just totally inaccurate. notice that said 42 only reflect 10% of New Horizons, which had a much bigger staff. that staff has and will come from the rest of EPD

 

[metonight]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2020/03/23/nintendo-explains-philosophy-behind-animal-crossings-big-changes-like-gender-expression-terraforming/

splatoon and animal crossing can't really share a "team" if new horizons has been in pre-production since before splatoon was even thought of

Yep, a lot of peoples wrongly think that AC Team = Splatoon Team.

It’s basically “every EPD franchise has a core creative team, and then a load of staff who’re moved between projects”

Someone did the investigating work:

Where are the Animal Crossing Switch Developers?

See where the software developers for the Animal Crossing series have gone since working on Animal Crossing. Many on the Animal Crossing New Leaf and Animal Crossing Happy Home Designer development teams have gone on to make other games. But where are the Animal Crossing Switch developers?

chuyplays.com

 

[Raccoon]

Yep, a lot of peoples wrongly think that AC Team = Splatoon Team.

It’s basically “every EPD franchise has a core creative team, and then a load of staff who’re moved between projects”

Someone did the investigating work:

Where are the Animal Crossing Switch Developers?

See where the software developers for the Animal Crossing series have gone since working on Animal Crossing. Many on the Animal Crossing New Leaf and Animal Crossing Happy Home Designer development teams have gone on to make other games. But where are the Animal Crossing Switch developers?

chuyplays.com

yoo thank you for a better source

saving this for next time

Of those 81 developers (from New Leaf), 8% worked on Pikmin 3, 2% worked on Animal Crossing Plaza, 5% worked on Super Mario 3D World, 13% worked on A Link Between Worlds, 10% worked on Mario Kart 8, 2% Worked on Smash for Wii and 3DS, 2% worked on Captain Toad, 10% worked on Splatoon, 26% worked on Happy Home Designer, 2% worked on Super Mario Maker, 1% worked on amiibo Festival, 1% worked on Star Fox Zero, 2% worked on Welcome amiibo, 5% worked on Breath of the Wild, 1% worked on ARMS, 8% Worked on Splatoon 2, 2% worked on Super Mario Odyssey, and 2% worked on Pocket Camp.

Of the 26 developers who worked on other games, 2% worked on amiibo Festival, 2% worked on Star Fox Zero, 21% worked on Welcome amiibo, 21% worked on Breath of the Wild, 5% worked on ARMS, 29% worked on Splatoon 2, 5% worked on Super Mario Odyssey, 5% worked on Pocket Camp, and 10% worked on Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

 

[Giancarlo]

Koizumi designed the Switch. Wii was designed by Miyamoto and Takeda. Wii U was designed by NIRD and NTD. The former an offshoot from Takeda's team.

Yoshiaki Kozuimi was the Nintendo Switch hardware producer, same as Shigeru Miyamoto that was the hardware producer of N64, Game Cube e Wii

 

[Machrider]

There's a minimum amount of energy you need to keep the GPU on, and so there's a limit to how low you can clock it before you stop getting meaningful battery savings. There's also a limit to how much cooling you can have in a tablet form factor, which limits how much energy you can feed the chip before it overheats.

Combining these 2 (and low powered RAM bandwidth) leads to the power gap between docked and undocked almost certainly end up under 3x. And that's not even enough to have your 540p example to go 1080p docked, since that's 4x times the number of pixels and requires roughly 4x as much GPU power.

A more realistic expectation is, for the 540p internal res example, docked go to 720p~810p internal at the same settings.

I would have loved if they made a docked profile in handheld mode toggle, but that ship has sailed. If they didn't made this for the Switch which had many games significantly bellow the native resolution, they won't for a device several times more powerful which has DLSS on top of it, to make low internal res not look nearly as bad.

I think Nintendo was nervous about the 20nm Tegra X1 other TSMC 20nm products had overheating issues (Qualcomm 810) so they were very conservative with the clocks especially initially. I think they were also nervous about the 2 1/2-3 hour battery life as is and didn't want to push that any further at first as this was already a large drop from their traditional handhelds. But it turns out, many, many people don't mind that battery life at all.

We know people do overclock their Switch to full clock even undocked and play for hours and hours and there haven't really been reports of the systems crapping out or anything like that.

Think Nintendo had to err on the side of caution, there were some question marks with the 20nm Tegra X1 chip and it was their first hybrid and they were likely a bit cautious in pushing too hard.

As for the battery life, even if a game is not optimized at all (so say it's basically just running 1080p native to 4K DLSS docked setting even in undocked mode) ... I say let the user decide what battery life they want. Most people don't honestly play in 4-6 hour marathon sessions to begin with, many people are fine just playing in 2-3 hour bursts (if that) and putting the system down in its dock. Most long haul flights/buses these days have an electrical outlet or charging port these days unlike 15 years ago. If you're giving people additional battery life, let them decide how they want to use it. If it's a little inefficient in some cases, so be it.

 

[Giancarlo]

Yep, a lot of peoples wrongly think that AC Team = Splatoon Team.

It’s basically “every EPD franchise has a core creative team, and then a load of staff who’re moved between projects”

Someone did the investigating work:

Where are the Animal Crossing Switch Developers?

See where the software developers for the Animal Crossing series have gone since working on Animal Crossing. Many on the Animal Crossing New Leaf and Animal Crossing Happy Home Designer development teams have gone on to make other games. But where are the Animal Crossing Switch developers?

chuyplays.com

i see it all spread who work on this and that, with a very few expection such as EPD 8 that work on 3D Mario since Super Mario Galaxy

 

[Goodtwin]

I think Nintendo was nervous about the 20nm Tegra X1 other TSMC 20nm products had overheating issues so they were very conservative with the clocks especially initially.

We know people do overclock their Switch to full clock even undocked and play for hours and hours and there haven't really been reports of the systems crapping out or anything like that.

Think Nintendo had to err on the side of caution, there were some question marks with the 20nm Tegra X1 chip and it was their first hybrid and they were likely a bit cautious in pushing too hard.

As for the battery life, even if a game is not optimized at all (so say it's basically just running 1080p native to 4K DLSS even in undocked mode) ... I say let the user decide what battery life they want. Most people don't honestly play in 4-6 hour marathon sessions to begin with, many people are fine just playing in 2-3 hour bursts (if that) and putting the system down in its dock. If you're giving people additional battery life, let them decide how they want to use it. If it's a little inefficient in some cases, so be it.

What sucks the most is if the X1 had been on 16nm from the beginning, Switch would have had 25-50% higher clocks. Memory bandwidth would have remained a bottleneck of course.

 

[Lancelot]

But 3rd party devs are already developing for much higher teraflops in PS5 and XSX. The same game they'll develop for/port to Switch 2 portable. What difference does it make?

It does a lot of difference between even getting a port or getting it indefinitely delayed because the developer didn't want to bother optimizing for this neutered handheld mode to run it acceptably. Remember, Nintendo is bringing an even lower performance tier than Series S into the table, you can't simply pull a PS3 and assume anyone will cope with your bs (especially when Switch 2 might not even sell a half of the original).

 

[ILikeFeet]

It does a lot of difference between even getting a port or getting it indefinitely delayed because the developer didn't want to bother optimizing for this neutered handheld mode to run it acceptably. Remember, Nintendo is bringing an even lower performance tier than Series S into the table, you can't simply pull a PS3 and assume anyone will cope with your bs (especially when Switch 2 might not even sell a half of the original).

while it will suck for Nintendo, they're not going to burden themselves or devs with yet more modes for optimization. throwing more factors into the pool means more testing and more modes of failure

 

[Machrider]

I honestly wouldn't mind if there was an option for docked mode only and the requirement of a battery pack if you want to play undocked (or like 1 1/2 hour battery) for a developer that is trying to port a really challenging impossible port and just doesn't want to or can't optimize well enough at 5 watts for the GPU.

There wouldn't be many games that do that, but in some cases if it has to be that way fine.

Battery packs are dirt, dirt cheap these days, even a 5000-6000 MaH battery expansion costs like $15-$20.

I just think crippling the performance of your machine when there is such a cheap and widely available fix for that is a bit short sighted.

 

[Hermii]

I honestly wouldn't mind if there was an option for docked mode only and the requirement of a battery pack if you want to play undocked (or like 1 1/2 hour battery) for a developer that is trying to port a really challenging impossible port and just doesn't want to or can't optimize well enough at 5 watts for the GPU.

There wouldn't be many games that do that, but in some cases if it has to be that way fine.

Battery packs are dirt, dirt cheap these days, even a 5000-6000 MaH battery expansion costs like $15-$20.

possible PR nightmare though. How do you communicate clearly to every buyer that this game only works docked?

 

[Machrider]

possible PR nightmare though. How do you communicate clearly to every buyer that this game only works docked?

Have a message on the box and before the game launches this this particular software runs in a Performance Mode only and a battery pack accessory is recommended.

I don't think there would be like a 100 games that do this, but I'm fine with having the option.

If it was a case where external batteries cost like a $100, that's one thing, but even that Nyko Switch battery stand (which more than doubles the Switch's battery life) is a laughable $17 on Amazon. $17 (!). These types of devices are dirt cheap and widely available enough that I think Nintendo should just take advantage of it or at least allow 3rd party devs in some extreme cases to do so.

 

[BassForever]

Since I got dozens of notifications for my posts on the last page, I felt compelled to add a few more thoughts I had about hardware and Switch 2 launch.

Even if Switch 2 is launching in March, it's far too early for a company like Gamestop to be "clearing space" to make room for it's software. Even if it wasn't too early, if Switch 2 is bc with Switch 1 there would be no reason to clear out the stock of Switch 1 software. Even if Switch 2 isn't BC, not only will Switch 1 software likely continue to be a strong seller for gamestop, but it'll take awhile before Switch 2 has enough physical game stock to even take over the "cleared our space".

I get being excited for new hardware, and I get wanting that hardware to be announced/revealed sooner then later. We need to stop looking at every random rock on the path and thinking it's a sign or hint from the gaming gods. It's not a healthy place to be, especially if you're on team March 2024 launch.

 

[Lancelot]

I honestly wouldn't mind if there was an option for docked mode only and the requirement of a battery pack if you want to play undocked (or like 1 1/2 hour battery) for a developer that is trying to port a really challenging impossible port and just doesn't want to or can't optimize well enough at 5 watts for the GPU.

There wouldn't be many games that do that, but in some cases if it has to be that way fine.

Battery packs are dirt, dirt cheap these days, even a 5000-6000 MaH battery expansion costs like $15-$20.

I just think crippling the performance of your machine when there is such a cheap and widely available fix for that is a bit short sighted.

That'd hurt the marketing of the console significantly, it's important to keep in mind this is a Switch. Much more powerful for sure, but a Switch regardless. It's entirely built around the fact you must be able to play the same game regardless of where you currently are, once you start to make exceptions for a given mode the whole point of this thing starts to fall apart. Besides, if you made an exception for someone, you'll need to make them for everyone else.

 

[Giancarlo]

possible PR nightmare though. How do you communicate clearly to every buyer that this game only works docked?

comunicate the same ways they market Super Mario Party(a game that due to heavy use of motion controls on it minigames, can only be played on handheld mode)

 

[Machrider]

That'd hurt the marketing of the console significantly, it's important to keep in mind this is a Switch. Much more powerful for sure, but a Switch regardless. It's entirely built around the fact you must be able to play the same game regardless of where you currently are, once you start to make exceptions for a given mode the whole point of the thing starts to fall apart. Besides, if you made an exception for someone, you'll need to make them for everyone else.

I think even max docked games would still run even without a battery pack but without it you're probably looking at 90 minutes battery or something. And for games like that you could have a warning on a screen before the game starts that battery pack is recommended.

Which honestly I think is fine. A battery pack is not some exotic, bizarre add-on for regular joes to comprehend, they are dirt cheap and most people have experience using them on their phone or tablet.

If not a Joycon extender for battery, I think a "portable dock" officially from Nintendo wouldn't be a bad idea either. Something like this:

If Nintendo made their own version of this design but sold it as a "Travel Dock" and added a HDMI output ... that would be a pretty good accessory (and solve another issue with the Switch which is sometimes you want to dock to another TV or maybe a TV in a hotel room or family member's house ... no one is carrying around a full size dock for that). And something like that wouldn't have to cost a lot. The above can be found for $19.99 regularly, sometimes on sale for like $15.

 

[Joy-Boy]

I honestly wouldn't mind if there was an option for docked mode only and the requirement of a battery pack if you want to play undocked (or like 1 1/2 hour battery) for a developer that is trying to port a really challenging impossible port and just doesn't want to or can't optimize well enough at 5 watts for the GPU.

There wouldn't be many games that do that, but in some cases if it has to be that way fine.

Battery packs are dirt, dirt cheap these days, even a 5000-6000 MaH battery expansion costs like $15-$20.

I just think crippling the performance of your machine when there is such a cheap and widely available fix for that is a bit short sighted.

Handheld is the preffered mode for a huge contingent of Switch players, especially in Japan. To compromise on that means alienating one of the biggest reasons people play on Switch in the first place. (And I say this as someone who plays docked almost exclusivley).

There's a reason both revisions of the Switch (Lite and OLED) catered exclusivley to handheld players and did basically nothing for docked, and still sold gangbusters

 

[Lancelot]

I think even max docked games would still run even without a battery pack but without it you're probably looking at 90 minutes battery or something. And for games like that you could have a warning on a screen before the game starts that battery pack is recommended.

Which honestly I think is fine. A battery pack is not some exotic, bizarre add-on for regular joes to comprehend, they are dirt cheap and most people have experience using them on their phone or tablet.

If not a Joycon extender for battery, I think a "portable dock" officially from Nintendo wouldn't be a bad idea either. Something like this:

If Nintendo made their own version of this design but sold it as a "Travel Dock" and added a HDMI output ... that would be a pretty good accessory (and solve another issue with the Switch which is sometimes you want to dock to another TV or maybe a TV in a hotel room ... no one is carrying around a full size dock for that). And something like that wouldn't have to cost a lot. The above can be found for $19.99 regularly, sometimes on sale for like $15.

Yes, but that's not how both docked and handheld mode work. Nobody is going to optimize for an accessory like a battery pack directly, so it ultimately falls upon the arms of allowing docked-only games. The mere fact of allowing one means more are coming, and you're alienating a big segment of the userbase by doing that. Either the two of them get the game, or no one gets it.

 

[Machrider]

Handheld is the preffered mode for a huge contingent of Switch players, especially in Japan. To compromise on that means alienating one of the biggest reasons people play on Switch in the first place. (And I say this as someone who plays docked almost exclusivley).

There's a reason both revisions of the Switch (Lite and OLED) catered exclusivley to handheld players and did basically nothing for docked, and still sold gangbusters

Even if you play handheld only, a portable dock or Joycons with extra battery in them would be a big benefit to some portable players.

A travel dock is something a lot of Switch owners ask for even even as is, if you integrate a battery into that you've got yourself a pretty great product that is useful and can increase the battery life or (if you'd like the option) increase performance.

It's like the PSP back in the day could clock higher if you plugged it into a wall outlet, I wouldn't mind if Nintendo at least even offered just that. It's 2024, not 1996 anymore, most long haul flights, airports, and even buses/trains have electrical outlets to provide power.

 

[Concernt]

switch batteries are so fucking glued it's insane

technically joy-con batteries have adhesive but I've never had to use solvent on one

Put simply, Joy-Con and Pro Controllers are compliant, but no extant model nor revision of Nintendo Switch is as a console compliant. If they intend to continue to produce Nintendo Switch units, they will need to make a minor revision to change how the battery is attached.

I dare to be brave and expect the next gen model will be compliant out the door

 

[Machrider]

Yes, but that's not how both docked and handheld mode work. Nobody is going to optimize for an accessory like a battery pack directly, so it ultimately falls upon the arms of allowing docked-only games. The mere fact of allowing one means more are coming, and you're alienating a big segment of the userbase by doing that. Either the two of them get the game, or no one gets it.

You don't really have to optimize at all if you don't want though as a developer, if a user has 2-3x extra battery on them, let them decide if they want to use that battery on performance (basically meaning they get to run the docked mode undocked).

It's their battery life, let them use it how they want to. Some people could use a device like that to double their battery, but many, many people really do not play in 6 hour marathon sessions on the road. They may prefer to simply have better performance on the road.

 

[Raccoon]

Put simply, Joy-Con and Pro Controllers are compliant, but no extant model nor revision of Nintendo Switch is as a console compliant. If they intend to continue to produce Nintendo Switch units, they will need to make a minor revision to change how the battery is attached.

I dare to be brave and expect the next gen model will be compliant out the door

it would be very ill-advised not to be for sure

 

[Concernt]

it would be very ill-advised not to be for sure

Nintendo are not strangers to ill-advised choices, unfortunately.

 

[justanotherperson]

Have a message on the box and before the game launches this this particular software runs in a Performance Mode only and a battery pack accessory is recommended.

I don't think there would be like a 100 games that do this, but I'm fine with having the option.

If it was a case where external batteries cost like a $100, that's one thing, but even that Nyko Switch battery stand (which more than doubles the Switch's battery life) is a laughable $17 on Amazon. $17 (!). These types of devices are dirt cheap and widely available enough that I think Nintendo should just take advantage of it or at least allow 3rd party devs in some extreme cases to do so.

If some games are gonna need a dirt cheap battery accessory to work, why not just include it in the machine? It would allow select games to run at docked speeds, while games that don't need it will be played for much longer.

 

[Lancelot]

You don't really have to optimize at all if you don't want though as a developer, if a user has 2-3x extra battery on them, let them decide if they want to use that battery on performance (basically meaning they get to run the docked mode undocked).

It's their battery life, let them use it how they want to. Some people could use a device like that to double their battery, but many, many people really do not play in 6 hour marathon sessions on the road. They may prefer to simply have better performance on the road.

That goes against Nintendo's principles as a console manufacturer, though. Letting the user tinkle with stuff like battery life is already a potential issue, and it's not all on Nintendo, the developer will need to let you use docked mode in handheld mode and also allow docked only games. Unless Nintendo allows all that, you're not getting all that at first place.

 

[Machrider]

If some games are gonna need a dirt cheap battery accessory to work, why not just include it in the machine? It would allow select games to run at docked speeds, while games that don't need it will be played for much longer.

I wouldn't mind, but I don't think Nintendo would take $10 even out of their profit margin.

For $25-$30 as an add-on it would be fine. If they could add an HDMI output it would increase the functionality of the machine too.

I think a "Travel Dock" is a good idea for several reasons.

 

[Raccoon]

For $25-$30 as an add-on it would be fine. If they could add an HDMI output it would increase the functionality of the machine too.

when they sell the dock alone (no ac adapter or hdmi cable) it's for 60, and that's without a battery

edit: in context maybe you meant BOM?

 

[Machrider]

That goes against Nintendo's principles as a console manufacturer, though. Letting the user tinkle with stuff like battery life is already a potential issue, and it's not all on Nintendo, the developer will need to let you use docked mode in handheld mode and also allow docked only games. Unless Nintendo allows all that, you're not getting all that at first place.

My point is they should allow it.

Even the PSP back in the day, if you plugged it in to a wall outlet would performance boost. It doesn't have to be rocket science, this is fairly straight forward to do.

Let the Switch 2 detect if you have a good enough battery pack attached or are plugged into an outlet. If yes, give the option to run the mode that the game already supports.

 

[Machrider]

when they sell the dock alone (no ac adapter or hdmi cable) it's for 60, and that's without a battery

edit: in context maybe you meant BOM?

And even at $60 they would sell a lot.

It's not BOM, BOM is probably more like $8-$10 (lol). Nyko sells battery stands for the Switch $16-$20 ... and they are making a profit at that price. Battery costs are nothing these days, which is why I think Nintendo should take advantage of that. You could easily create a travel dock or battery extensions into the Joycon which are dirt cheap to make.

Why not take advantage of a ubiquitous kind of accessory (thank you smartphones and tablets).

 

[Lancelot]

My point is they should allow it.

Even the PSP back in the day, if you plugged it in to a wall outlet would performance boost. It doesn't have to be rocket science, this is fairly straight forward to do.

Let the Switch 2 detect if you have a good enough battery pack attached or are plugged into an outlet. If yes, give the option to run the mode that the game already supports.

Yes, but there's more to this than just allowing a mode. Keep in mind the dock still got more passive cooling and this is a much more complex device than the PSP by a long shot. I do not think Nintendo wants to risk potential system failures as not all yields will be equal, this is the same argument behind allowing Mariko Switches to run an overclock while handheld. You're either going to get the improved battery life with the modes they already intended, or allow new ones that will push the chip to its limits in an unintended environment.

 

[Concernt]

My point is they should allow it.

I don't think they should.

It would encourage low quality, low effort ports, dis-incentivise optimisation and make things more complicated for hardware development, software development AND the consumer, all while now Nintendo has to test all these ridiculous cheap tat accessories for a profile they can't be certain the market will respond to. They'd also have to make sure the tablet running at peak clocks doesn't become UNCOMFORTABLE to hold, something the original Switch DOES in TV mode.

At most, AT MOST, they could allow the user to choose to run games in TV mode scaled to the portable screen for better resolutions or what have you while charging perhaps... but Nintendo could do that for Switch, and does not allow it because it's another test case, it's another complexity, it's a point of confusion for the market, it's a "Wii U moment" on a small scale and an engineering challenge they don't need.

 

[Machrider]

Yes, but there's more to this than just allowing a mode. Keep in mind the dock still got more passive cooling and this is a much more complex device than the PSP by a long shot. I do not think Nintendo wants to risk potential system failures as not all yields will be equal, this is the same argument behind allowing Mariko Switches to run an overclock while handheld.

I think Nintendo was overly cautious with the first Switch. They were scared by reports of the 20nm process running hot and previous Nvidia Tegra chips (K1?) having overheating issues. It was their first hybrid and they wanted to play it safe, and even then I think they realized their initial dock speed was ridiculously low so they eventually allowed higher speeds.

If they are more confident in the Switch 2's chip/node process they can push it a little more I think and not have to compromise the machine so badly when undocked.

People have been overclocking their Switch systems to max clock for years now even undocked, there really are not many reports at all of overheating or bricked systems.

 

[justanotherperson]

I wouldn't mind, but I don't think Nintendo would take $10 even out of their profit margin.

For $25-$30 as an add-on it would be fine. If they could add an HDMI output it would increase the functionality of the machine too.

I think a "Travel Dock" is a good idea for several reasons.

I think it could be worth it, especially with the durability of these portable PCs. If Nintendo is able to cram a 6000mAh battery in the console and sell it for $399, many would see it's impressive graphics and the 5 or 6 hours long battery life in demanding games for $399 as a steal compared to like a ROG Ally which is much more expensive and lasts less, especially compared to the OG Switch which could only run BotW for around 4 hours.

 

[Machrider]

I don't think they should.

It would encourage low quality, low effort ports, dis-incentivise optimisation and make things more complicated for hardware development, software development AND the consumer, all while now Nintendo has to test all these ridiculous cheap tat accessories for a profile they can't be certain the market will respond to. They'd also have to make sure the tablet running at peak clocks doesn't become UNCOMFORTABLE to hold, something the original Switch DOES in TV mode.

At most, AT MOST, they could allow the user to choose to run games in TV mode scaled to the portable screen for better resolutions or what have you while charging perhaps... but Nintendo could do that for Switch, and does not allow it because it's another test case, it's another complexity, it's a point of confusion for the market, it's a "Wii U moment" on a small scale and an engineering challenge they don't need.

I disagree. Developers aren't lazy by and large, a developer committing to make a high end game work on a portable device is already likely sweating a lot because they're bringing games from PCs/consoles that run at 90-200 watts and trying to make those games work at sub-10 watts even would be a high bar to clear but 5 watts is almost well pretty extreme to begin with.

Throw some devs a bone I say.

Ion lithium battery packs are so dirt cheap and can even be extremely compact if that's the form factor you're looking for on top of that electrical outlets are widespread on airplanes, trains, buses, malls, airports, etc. etc. The smartphone boom has reoriented how long you have to be without power for your devices.

 

[Concernt]

I disagree. Developers aren't lazy by and large, a developer committing to make a high end game work on a portable device is already likely sweating a lot because they're bringing games from PCs/consoles that run at 90-200 watts and trying to make those games work at 10 watts even would be a high bar to clear but 5 watts is almost well pretty extreme to begin with.

Throw some devs a bone I say.

Ion lithium battery packs are so dirt cheap and can even be extremely compact if that's the form factor you're looking for on top of that electrical outlets are widespread on airplanes, trains, buses, malls, airports, etc. etc. The smartphone boom has reoriented how long you have to be without power for your devices.

I'll have to beg your pardon - but that isn't how game development works. Watts do not make a game more or less possible. If they don't want to optimise a game to work on a chip that IS low wattage - fine. Don't release it on a handheld, then! At less than 10W, T239 on 4NM has a far better CPU and a comparable speed but more feature rich GPU than a PS4... which in 2013, CONSUMED A HUNDRED AND FIFTY WATTS. The watts from 2013 are the same watts we have today. Having a hundred and fifty watts in a PS4 does not make a game easier to port vs. 10 watts slapped into T239.

Plus, and this is me being pedantic, but we have no evidence to suggest 5W is a target power consumption for T239 as a whole.

 

[Machrider]

I'll have to beg your pardon - but that isn't how game development works. Watts do not make a game more or less possible. If they don't want to optimise a game to work on a chip that IS low wattage - fine. Don't release it on a handheld, then! At less than 10W, T239 on 4NM has a far better CPU and a comparable speed but more feature rich GPU than a PS4... which in 2013, CONSUMED A HUNDRED AND FIFTY WATTS. The watts from 2013 are the same watts we have today. Having a hundred and fifty watts in a PS4 does not make a game easier to port vs. 10 watts slapped into T239.

Plus, and this is me being pedantic, but we have no evidence to suggest 5W is a target power consumption for T239 as a whole.

I don't think you have to force devs, you can cite whatever power watt number you want, it's still incredibly challenging what devs do when they bring games like DOOM Eternal or Witcher 3 to a mobile device like a Switch.

I just don't think you need to make life so freaking difficult for developers. Let some games full clock.

The downside is just reduced battery life but we live in a post smartphone boom world where it's not 1998 anymore. We don't need to operate as if it still is.

I had my OG Switch and I played it for a good 6-7 hours after it launched during flight which had a terrible 2 hour delay. How much battery of the Switch did I use? Not even 20%. How? I played in the airport lounge where there were like 50 power outlets, as is fairly common today and on the plane itself I just plugged right into an outlet by my seat as well. Even my shuttle bus to the hotel had electrical outlets.

In 6+ years of owning a Switch I actually don't think I've ever managed to drain the battery to 0 on the go. Any time I'd ever be in a situation where I could theoretically play for like 3+ hours, it would be a situation where I have access to an outlet.

 

[ReyVGM]

- GameStop is having a fire sale of games (seemingly due to their Pro Week) which includes Switch games like Pokemon Shield, Mystery Dungeon DX, Pokken, NMH3, and Splatoon 2 at $15(!!!)

(shoutout to Deku Deals for this picture)

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I honestly wouldn't mind if there was an option for docked mode only and the requirement of a battery pack if you want to play undocked (or like 1 1/2 hour battery) for a developer that is trying to port a really challenging impossible port and just doesn't want to or can't optimize well enough at 5 watts for the GPU.

There wouldn't be many games that do that, but in some cases if it has to be that way fine.

What kind of game works well enough to be released at X speed of GPU, but can't run at all at X/2 speed of GPU? Is this a game that's 720p docked but they think 480p undocked would be too insulting to allow to exist?

 

[Machrider]

What kind of game works well enough to be released at X speed of GPU, but can't run at all at X/2 speed of GPU? Is this a game that's 720p docked but they think 480p undocked would be too insulting to allow to exist?

I mean well Mortal Kombat 1 on Switch is a game that probably the Switch can ran a lot better than that. People can call the developers lazy bums all they want but the fact is when you really have to make a baseline version of a game that only utilizes about 40% of any chip ... it can be a massive hinderance in trying to port a game like that.

If they were allowed to use the Switch chip to its full potential, they could probably deliver a version that looks better than that.

Now some people will say "well if that's the case they shouldn't release the game period and no one should be able to play it!".

I think it's just better to allow in situations like that an option where a developer can utilize the full potential of the chip even when portably.

If it was a case of some exotic or extreme solution was the only way to do it, I'd be against it, but when it really just comes down to battery size basically and extending a battery in this day and age is so cheap and easy to do, I say allow/make it easier for that to be possible.

It can help a system like a Switch an awful lot and I think lots of people are perfectly willing to spend a few bucks extra on an accessory if they have to. No one's asking for like a $100 upgrade here, a 5000 MaH ion-lithium battery can be sold at a profit even at $20 these days. I paid more for my GameCube and PS2 memory cards and that used to be just a standard thing you'd pay for without even thinking twice about.

You can dramatically alter the performance of a hardware like the Switch for something that costs about the same or less than a PS2/GC memory card back in the day, if there was something that could do that for the GameCube for that price, I'd have done backflips of joy.

 

[Hermii]

What kind of game works well enough to be released at X speed of GPU, but can't run at all at X/2 speed of GPU? Is this a game that's 720p docked but they think 480p undocked would be too insulting to allow to exist?

Devs main complaint about the series s is that it's ram limited. Switch has identical ram amount and cpu in all modes.

 

[Concernt]

The more I think about it the more I agree with @Raccoon and hope they've really put effort into making it PORTABLE. Keeping it THIN. My handbag JUST ABOUT fits an OLED Model. Next gen is already going to be a stretch, but if they make it big bulky and heavy for the sake of performance for the sake of a handful of extra games not having to put in as much optimisation, that will be a BAD decision. Nintendo's bread and butter is HANDHELD. Hand. Held. Small enough to be held in hands without fatigue, even for children, small enough to be taken anywhere, on a plane, on a bus, on a train. Small enough to fit in a handbag, a satchel, a glovebox. If people want a ridiculous gaming device on the go that basically requires wall power, get a Series S and an xScreen or a gaming laptop. Nintendo does and in all likelihood will continue to make HANDHELDS.

And there's nothing to suggest they won't! T239 on 4N, which still seems to be the most likely scenario, has power consumption no worse, and so heat dissipation no more dire, than the original Nintendo Switch. With the improvements we've seen in battery density and Nintendo's own improved motherboard design since 2017, even at the same power consumption we could see a device that has much better battery life, but that ISN'T ANY THICKER. Nintendo wants this to be successful, so they want it to be appealing, and that means visuals and comfort. Thinness is an obvious target the needs of which are met by T239.

 

[mjayer]

The more I think about it the more I agree with @Raccoon and hope they've really put effort into making it PORTABLE. Keeping it THIN. My handbag JUST ABOUT fits an OLED Model. Next gen is already going to be a stretch, but if they make it big bulky and heavy for the sake of performance for the sake of a handful of extra games not having to put in as much optimisation, that will be a BAD decision. Nintendo's bread and butter is HANDHELD. Hand. Held. Small enough to be held in hands without fatigue, even for children, small enough to be taken anywhere, on a plane, on a bus, on a train. Small enough to fit in a handbag, a satchel, a glovebox. If people want a ridiculous gaming device on the go that basically requires wall power, get a Series S and an xScreen or a gaming laptop. Nintendo does and in all likelihood will continue to make HANDHELDS.

And there's nothing to suggest they won't! T239 on 4N, which still seems to be the most likely scenario, has power consumption no worse, and so heat dissipation no more dire, than the original Nintendo Switch. With the improvements we've seen in battery density and Nintendo's own improved motherboard design since 2017, even at the same power consumption we could see a device that has much better battery life, but that ISN'T ANY THICKER. Nintendo wants this to be successful, so they want it to be appealing, and that means visuals and comfort. Thinness is an obvious target the needs of which are met by T239.