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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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One of the main things i want from the new system if for it to be very difficult to mod, so we dont have deal with ROM dumps for every Nintendo title getting leaked weeks before launch
 
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D36 said:
Just want to say that TotK has leaked, so be wary of spoilers.
Also, I wanted to ask: how many gigs of storage do we expect Drake to have? Personally, I doubt it'll be anywhere near 1TB, but it should definitely have a lot more than a measly 32 gigs.
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128/256GB is what i expect the Switch sucessor is gonna have of storage capacity
 
NintenDuvo said:
One of the main things i want from the new system if for it to be very difficult to mod, so we dont have deal with ROM dumps for every Nintendo title getting leaked weeks before launch
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yes is very annoying when you have a higly antecipated game such as Tears of the Kingdom, and someone leak the game, every major Nintendo game leak, this is become annoying/ridiculous
 
Concernt said:
I don't know if it would really benefit them.
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While it might not be fast enough to really make a game changing improvement to streaming in data on the fly, a big improvement in loading times will always be appreciated. Microsoft and Sony have basically changed what players expect from loading times. So when a gamer goes from playing their PS5 or Series console, where loading times are very quick and then go to Redacted, if the load times are significantly longer this will be off-putting to those players. If they can just get close to your standard MicroSD's theoretical maximums around 90-100MB/s, whether it be from their cartridges, internal memory or MicroSD cards, that would be sufficient to at least offer respectable loading times.
 
On the topic of TotK leaking, (and knowing of the rumours from a year or so ago) I wonder if the danger of leaks would tempt Nintendo to go all digital, and thus have more protection from leaks?

Obviously this would have implications for storage requirements, as well as upsetting a lot of people.

They must have at least had a meeting or two about it!
 
mjayer said:
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SOMEONE MADE THE JOKE! Ahahahhahaha xD

Let’s see if reaching page 1,080 (p) gets us a leak 🤞🏾

BloodMoon said:
On the topic of TotK leaking, (and knowing of the rumours from a year or so ago) I wonder if the danger of leaks would tempt Nintendo to go all digital, and thus have more protection from leaks?

Obviously this would have implications for storage requirements, as well as upsetting a lot of people.

They must have at least had a meeting or two about it!
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I don’t think all digital is an option for the next decades, IMHO



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Trying to add to the subject of what internal storage size the successor will have, since Nintendo is getting more and more into digital software sales, I’m sure they’re more than willing to try to maximize size, all inside a margin of profit for them.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
You don’t know that, this is the same company that recycles something old into something new.

Doubting that they can come up with new ways to play that happens to take advantage of better speeds is already weird.
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I... Pretty much do know that? There are advantages to better speeds. There's also diminishing returns. That's just a fact.
 
Goodtwin said:
While it might not be fast enough to really make a game changing improvement to streaming in data on the fly, a big improvement in loading times will always be appreciated. Microsoft and Sony have basically changed what players expect from loading times. So when a gamer goes from playing their PS5 or Series console, where loading times are very quick and then go to Redacted, if the load times are significantly longer this will be off-putting to those players. If they can just get close to your standard MicroSD's theoretical maximums around 90-100MB/s, whether it be from their cartridges, internal memory or MicroSD cards, that would be sufficient to at least offer respectable loading times.
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I don't think I ever said loading times wouldn't be faster? Because they almost certainly will be. All I'm saying is that making better use of existing speeds with a faster CPU and dedicated decompression reduces the need to brute force higher speeds with a simply faster storage medium.

Harddrives can be, at worst, a drag on performance. Their storage is already faster than that. Better use of it will put it solidly ahead of a harddrive... And no game will refuse to run off a harddrive. It does not enhance gameplay opportunities; it merely improves the experience. Storage speeds simply aren't nearly as much an issue as people think they are. Especially when you factor in compression. Which this device has.
 
RaymondBryce said:
I mean, they had a very packed lineup last year and are releasing 3 new games in the first 5 months of this year. They are hardly "coasting"
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Of Nintendo's big titles this year, Engage, TOTK and 1+2 Reboot Camp were all pushed back or delayed, with only Bayonetta Origins, a smaller title, being on-time and intended for a 2023 launch.

Without the delays and remasters, early 2023 suddenly looks incredibly bleak, and I can't help but think that... Something was meant to be here that has ended up not being here. Personally I think that was the announcement of a new console and marketing for its launch titles.
 
Concernt said:
Of Nintendo's big titles this year, Engage, TOTK and 1+2 Reboot Camp were all pushed back or delayed, with only Bayonetta Origins, a smaller title, being on-time and intended for a 2023 launch.

Without the delays and remasters, early 2023 suddenly looks incredibly bleak, and I can't help but think that... Something was meant to be here that has ended up not being here. Personally I think that was the announcement of a new console and marketing for its launch titles.
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It is worth repeating if they held back those titles and Prime Remastered what makes you think they didn't have other stuff planned for the first half of this year that has now also been pushed to fall or first half next year?

Sure they could've had a bleak start to 2023 as you put it but we haven't seen that really (to that level) with switch where we have seen them bank games that are ready on multiple occasions.
 
Mr Swine said:
So is it certain that ToTP uses Temporal upscaling like Xenoblade 3?
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Not according to this test. Seems to be 900p dynamic just like BotW. If this turns out to be true, it really is a head scratcher on why they wouldn't implement the system into TotK. XBC3 resolves at 1080p while only rendering at 540p. XBC3 looks clean, but very soft. There is definitely a blur to anything in the distance. If they could increase the actual rendering resolution to 720p in TotK and then use the image reconstruction to get to 1080p, it seems like that would resolve in a clean and fairly clear image. Im sure its a question only the programmers at Nintendo could answer, but it is curious that Nintendo through a patent on this image reconstruction technology when they only have one game that currently uses it.
 
BloodMoon said:
On the topic of TotK leaking, (and knowing of the rumours from a year or so ago) I wonder if the danger of leaks would tempt Nintendo to go all digital, and thus have more protection from leaks?

Obviously this would have implications for storage requirements, as well as upsetting a lot of people.

They must have at least had a meeting or two about it!
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No. These leaks harm them far less than that would do.
 
Ashee said:
So, how many from here will pre order the new gen with only the first trailer? Who will wait till the hard core fans full test it?(for performance or bugs)
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I'm not sure when I'll buy it. My financial situation is in flux, so it will depend on the timing. But I never planned on buying it at launch anyway. I'll wait for 2+ exclusives and/or a drastically improved experienced on a couple unreleased games before I upgrade.
 
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Concernt said:
Diminishing returns is a feature of almost all technological advancements. Storage is not immune to it.
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no one said that storage isn’t immune to it, but Nintendo literally is not starting from anywhere close the point of where it starts, they are starting from a much lower level. If you were referring to a PS4 level of power switch to PS5 level Switch 2, sure. but it’s from the Switch to a device that is supposedly stronger than the PS4.


that is literally a wider gap than PS4 to 5.
 
TSR3 said:
I'd love to know the details of the Arete research report that they are quoting the 220 days inventory from, and if it is referring explicitly to GPUs, specifically RTX 4000 series GPUs, or if it refers to all Nvidia products (so including RTX 3000, and enterprise GPU accelerators). Because as far as I can tell, despite hiccups in the gamer market, Nvidia are going gang-busters in the enterprise and are riding this years ChatGPT wave ...

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I’ve had a thought about this - I wonder if Nvidia are stockpiling T239/Drake SoC ahead of a launch?
 


I don't know if this can be placed here (although it does not contain links, only technical data of the game, so it does not contain sensitive information) but since it was a topic of discussion in the past, I think it is of interest. Indeed, as speculated, TotK comes in a 32GB cartridge, according to the size of the leaked physical copy.
 
Ojoloco said:


I don't know if this can be placed here (although it does not contain links, only technical data of the game, so it does not contain sensitive information) but since it was a topic of discussion in the past, I think it is of interest. Indeed, as speculated, TotK comes in a 32GB cartridge, according to the size of the leaked physical copy.
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But why is there a square around "pt"?
 
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Ashee said:
So, how many from here will pre order the new gen with only the first trailer? Who will wait till the hard core fans full test it?(for performance or bugs)
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Day 1, and most likely two of them if it’s anything like the Switch where my wife and I will both want our own.

Most places here only ask for $50 to pre-order. I’d rather know I can get them at launch than have to deal with chasing stock in the post launch months.
 
NintenDuvo said:
One of the main things i want from the new system if for it to be very difficult to mod, so we dont have deal with ROM dumps for every Nintendo title getting leaked weeks before launch
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Considering that the Tegra X1+ (i.e. Mariko) can't be hacked without doing a hardware mod, I think the same is applicable to Drake. The only reason why Nintendo Switch game dumps are happening quickly and well before the official release date is because the Tegra X1 (i.e. Erista) has a vulnerability that can't be fixed (i.e. Fusée Gelée). (Too bad stopping hardware mods is impossible. However, hardware mods should be extremely difficult to do.)
 
Rhythm Shift said:
I think we're gonna see massive jumps in capacities, as there were also with prior handhelds. Macronix seems to deliberately price game cards to invest into the next generation of memory. The Switch game cards use their XtraROM technology, so they either expanded upon that, or developed something new for the new hardware.
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Unless Nintendo leads the way with 32 GB cards to be mass produced and help drive prices down, I feel very pessimistic about developers using 32GB carts. Isn't Nintendo Macronix's only customers with these carts? Best case scenario, maybe 32GB carts will be used as often as current 16GB carts. And maybe we'll get half a dozen 64GB cards? Either way, I'm expecting $70 at least from 3rd part devs.


I hope Tears of Kingdom is actually the first 32GB cart used by Nintendo, and the first of many to lead the way for switch 2 games.

Imo, I do think the price of carts was a bottleneck for the switch for some AAA third party devs. Witcher 3 was great, while games like FFX/X-2 in 32GB was available in Asian only l. We could have gotten more bigger games like Cod, GTA 5, etc.
Nintendojitsu said:
512gb.
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Why do you expect Nintendo to offer 512GB?

It's my hope that they do, even if it means a higher end sku for $500. If we have just one SKU, I would not be surprised if we get less than 512, GB. 128-256GB is what I'm thinking will happen, despite how ridiculous it is in 2023 for a PS4 Pro tier console.
Concernt said:
Something can be BOTH qualitative and quantitative, and computing power and hardware featureset are one of those things. They've "innovated" themselves into a corner with the Nintendo Switch design. Motion controls, VR, TV Mode, Handheld Mode, Tabletop Mode. There isn't much more that they CAN add. But more power and more features means more games are possible. New gameplay opportunities.

I think they're well positioned. "New experiences only possible on ADVANCE" and "Plays best on ADVANCE" are good marketing positions, while the raw grunt argument is very easily for handheld mode, without sacrificing 4K in TV mode. They don't need to argue, say, that they're just as powerful or more powerful than their competitors. But that they're powerful ENOUGH despite being portable to play the same games.

If a developer wants their game on a handheld, and thus, to seriously compete in emerging and Japanese markets, they need to go with Nintendo Switch. The next console should make that possible for just about any game targeting the current generation of consoles.
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They need (I want them to) to add back IR aiming. This could be a wireless sensor bar and/or a IR sensor on the Switch 2 itself. IR + gryo makes for the ultimate home console FPs experience (Helloo Cod games, RE4 remake, and MP4) while also supporting NSO Wii games that relied on IR aiming possible.

Didn't you say the joycons have less gyro sensors btw?;


They could probably do VR as well. Maybe as a separate attachment like Sony as well.
 
ShadowFox08 said:
Why do you expect Nintendo to offer 512GB?

It's my hope that they do, even if it means a higher end sku for $500. If we have just one SKU, I would not be surprised if we get less than 512, GB. 128-256GB is what I'm thinking will happen, despite how ridiculous it is in 2023 for a PS4 Pro tier console.
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Although not the original poster, I think one possible reason for Nintendo to go with 512 GB for the internal flash storage is if Nintendo's interested in providing a feature similar to Quick Resume.
 
Concernt said:
Of Nintendo's big titles this year, Engage, TOTK and 1+2 Reboot Camp were all pushed back or delayed, with only Bayonetta Origins, a smaller title, being on-time and intended for a 2023 launch.

Without the delays and remasters, early 2023 suddenly looks incredibly bleak, and I can't help but think that... Something was meant to be here that has ended up not being here. Personally I think that was the announcement of a new console and marketing for its launch titles.
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I can see it if there was only remasters, but I don't your point about internal delays (especially as Engage was never formally delayed and released exactly when they said it ). My rebuttal would be:

1. Why is it coasting to delay a game to polish it more?
2. Why is it coasting to not release a game as soon as it is ready? Nintendo will quite often hold games when they are finished I'm order to.ensure a regular stream of releases (see Xenoblade 3 for example) There's nothing wrong with that
3. You seem to think that if Nintendo didn't have these new games this year, they wouldn't have any games. Instead, its far more likely that they would just have different new games

So in summary, yes if you ignore a publisher's games then there line up is bleak. But there is 0 reason to ignore there games
 
ShadowFox08 said:
Unless Nintendo leads the way with 32 GB cards to be mass produced and help drive prices down, I feel very pessimistic about developers using 32GB carts. Isn't Nintendo Macronix's only customers with these carts? Best case scenario, maybe 32GB carts will be used as often as current 16GB carts. And maybe we'll get half a dozen 64GB cards? Either way, I'm expecting $70 at least from 3rd part devs.


I hope Tears of Kingdom is actually the first 32GB cart used by Nintendo, and the first of many to lead the way for switch 2 games.

Imo, I do think the price of carts was a bottleneck for the switch for some AAA third party devs. Witcher 3 was great, while games like FFX/X-2 in 32GB was available in Asian only l. We could have gotten more bigger games like Cod, GTA 5, etc.

Why do you expect Nintendo to offer 512GB?

It's my hope that they do, even if it means a higher end sku for $500. If we have just one SKU, I would not be surprised if we get less than 512, GB. 128-256GB is what I'm thinking will happen, despite how ridiculous it is in 2023 for a PS4 Pro tier console.

They need (I want them to) to add back IR aiming. This could be a wireless sensor bar and/or a IR sensor on the Switch 2 itself. IR + gryo makes for the ultimate home console FPs experience (Helloo Cod games, RE4 remake, and MP4) while also supporting NSO Wii games that relied on IR aiming possible.

Didn't you say the joycons have less gyro sensors btw?;


They could probably do VR as well. Maybe as a separate attachment like Sony as well.
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No! Not with the sensor bar! Never again!

I agree we want better gyro controls but nowadays that's better served with inside-out tracking.

The Wii system worked by having an IR camera on the Wii Remote track two IR emitters on the sensor bar.

The Joy-Con IR Motion Camera has both in one, a strobing IR emitter and an IR camera, all in one unit.

Rather than having to point something as archaic as a sensor bar, instead, if they added more IR camera units to each Joy-Con, it could analyse its movement relative to the room, and provide inside-out tracking. Mobile phones have also made IR+colour cameras extremely cheap and available, and using an array of those could do things like track the screen, be it in TV or Tabletop mode, rather than a dedicated sensor bar, which would make things a lot simpler.

This approach also has the advantage of not having to point at the TV to align things.

Wii U GamePad had great motion controls through the use of a magnetometer, so it could calibrate itself using the earth's magnetic field.

Combining these, say, having one camera on the bottom of each Joy-Con, and one at the top beside the shoulder button, and a magnetometer each, you could get really excellent motion controls, no sensor bar required.

Luckily for Nintendo, camera modules (including IR sensitive modules) are extremely cheap, again, thanks to mobile phones. Using those for inside-out tracking would be a great move.


Edit: also a sensor bar has to be stationary, more or less, and kind of defeats the purpose of a portable system. Inside-out tracking could be used to enhance the motion controls even in handheld mode, and work as an excellent pointer for Wii games in Tabletop mode.
 
Dakhil said:
Considering that the Tegra X1+ (i.e. Mariko) can't be hacked without doing a hardware mod, I think the same is applicable to Drake. The only reason why Nintendo Switch game dumps are happening quickly and well before the official release date is because the Tegra X1 (i.e. Erista) has a vulnerability that can't be fixed (i.e. Fusée Gelée). (Too bad stopping hardware mods is impossible. However, hardware mods should be extremely difficult to do.)
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Oh yeah i remember hearing that this problem couldnt be patched and so Nintendo just released the V2 to replace all the V1s, also if you have V1 never send it in for repair because Nintendo will just replace it with a V2
 
Ashee said:
So, how many from here will pre order the new gen with only the first trailer? Who will wait till the hard core fans full test it?(for performance or bugs)
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Pre-ordering immediately but not just for the sake of having more powerful hardware. Just want to move on to a new model and resume my backlog from there.
 
Dakhil said:
Although not the original poster, I think one possible reason for Nintendo to go with 512 GB for the internal flash storage is if Nintendo's interested in providing a feature similar to Quick Resume.
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Quick Resume is the best feature of the Xbox Series consoles, and what I miss most on the Switch. Having a whole bunch of games paused is so nice, particularly if multiple people use the same system.

But the Super Switch wouldn't need 512 GB of storage to make that work. 256 should be plenty given the system's estimated RAM and game sizes.
 
ILikeFeet said:
I still don't see why mandatory installs would even be expected. the game cards will probably be upgraded to support higher bandwidth and if a download is needed, it's cheaper to not put in a card at all, but a download code
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If they went with UFS 3.0 for example for on board storage, do you think the game cards could be made to match while still staying at a reasonable cost given capacity is going to need to be bigger going forward?
 
em said:
Quick Resume is the best feature of the Xbox Series consoles, and what I miss most on the Switch. Having a whole bunch of games paused is so nice, particularly if multiple people use the same system.

But the Super Switch wouldn't need 512 GB of storage to make that work. 256 should be plenty given the system's estimated RAM and game sizes.
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Even just allowing two would be amazing. One suspended and one closed but resumable.
 
Gerald said:
If NVMe its possible in your opinion guys? Would be awesome
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Would it be, though? What benefit would NVME provide? If they really want to go with fast internal storage, UFS is always an option with fantastic speeds at low power consumption. NVME has power consumption and heat dissipation issues in a package as small as Nintendo Switch, and might not be the best option.

However, I think people miss the forest for the trees. Nintendo Switch already has an SSD, in a way, the next system will too. Even fast eMMC and an efficient decompression system would see performance that easily slaps say, PS4 or Xbox One.

Ultimately, though, I shan't rethread myself. I expect basic eMMC, but I think they'll do fine with it between eMMC's existing adequate speed, and a faster CPU and decompression.
 
Gotdatmoneyy said:
If they went with UFS 3.0 for example for on board storage, do you think the game cards could be made to match while still staying at a reasonable cost given capacity is going to need to be bigger going forward?
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Probably. I can't imagine what Nintendo asks for xtrarom is so unique
 
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kasparov77 said:
For real???????
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Yeah on Launch i had got two Switches, one for me and the other one for guests, the one for the guest had got the blue screen of death, so sent it in for repair and got a totally different switch back with a new serial number that lines up with the V2 versions
 
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Well, for gaming, I’d imagine randoms matter more for it than the sequential. So if it isn’t >1GB/s in sequential but it has high random, I think it’ll be fine.


Note: I am not saying low sequential either :p, but like 850MB/s? As opposed to….190
 
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