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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Raccoon said:
regardless of the subjectivity, I'd contend that making it bigger is a direct response to a priority of power
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This is a baseless claim that T239's existence contradicts. If they go for "power" and thus a better node, it simply won't be large or require a large chassis.


Raccoon said:
switch 1 is a bit too big. switch 2 is bigger than too big. I recognize and respect your position that bigger than too big == "eh the old one demanded special accommodations anyway" but as someone who has joyously stuffed the old switch in places it doesn't belong (weird backpack pocket, my literal actual pants) it's a clear downgrade.
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This is not relevant to what I was discussing.


Raccoon said:
I didn't spell this out but the screen specs connection was all about price. early in development they would've planned the chip with the knowledge of a cheapo lcd going into the device in favor of performance. whether that turns out to be the case obviously remains to be seen but it makes more sense to me than going with a premium lcd
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Again, the chip is irrelevant to it, which is what I was saying. They would have gone into the design of the device and the chip knowing roughly where the chip pricing would fall- which... Like, again, not an expensive chip unless it's on an absurd node (which would sacrifice power, something you claim they aren't doing.)

Maybe they do go with a "cheapo" LCD, but that seems unlikely on account of them seeming to be targeting 1080p HDR. Even then, that's not a not "good" screen, it's a flat spec upgrade over the Nintendo Switch's models.

To be clear, it's absolutely fine to hear reports about a device being bigger and going "that doesn't suit my lifestyle", it's another thing entirely to misrepresent those reports or actual factual evidence to support said position.
 
Concernt said:
This is a baseless claim that T239's existence contradicts. If they go for "power", it simply won't be large or require a large chassis.


This is not relevant to what I was discussing.
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ah yeah I see what you meant now

they just made it bigger for the sake of it? I guess I could see it. that'll be a selling point for a good chunk of non-raccoon people

Concernt said:
Again, the chip is irrelevant to it, which is what I was saying. They would have gone into the design of the device and the chip knowing roughly where the chip pricing would fall- which... Like, again, not an expensive chip unless it's on an absurd node (which would sacrifice power, something you claim they aren't doing.)
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this part though I feel like we still have a misunderstanding on. my point was that in the design of the chip they targeted a pricepoint with a cheaper screen budget in mind

very speculative but hey welcome to this thread
 
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Sol said:
Tom Warren speculated today that Microsoft on Thursday may reveal the development of an Xbox handheld device.

It makes me think of what the market for gaming handhelds could look like by 2026. Switch 2 could be competing with the Steam Deck 2, Xbox handheld, a bunch of handheld PCs, and maybe a device from Sony. In 2017 when the Switch launched it pretty much had zero competition in the dedicated handheld gaming space.

At the very least, it should force Nintendo to stay on their game, and may even prompt the development of a "Pro" version of the Switch 2 that we never got with the current Switch.
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you don't reveal new hardware on a podcast of all things
 
Raccoon said:
they just made it bigger for the sake of it? I guess I could see it. that'll be a selling point for a good chunk of non-raccoon people
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3 potential reasons they made it bigger:

1: bigger screen. This is a plus to a lot of people obviously, especially in table top.

2: Joycons 2 will be bigger for better ergonomics. No, I'm not buying the theory they're ditching joycons, nor do I think it will be any thicker than current models.

3. Good old product differentiation.
 
I'm not convinced the screen will be bad just because it is less expensive to manufacture compared to an OLED.

Raccoon said:
they just made it bigger for the sake of it? I guess I could see it. that'll be a selling point for a good chunk of non-raccoon people
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I think it's possible their line of thought is 'in marketing a new generation, we want to show an obvious upgrade in handheld mode', so they upped the resolution to 1080p. Too tempting to market 'full HD portable gaming'. Then they decided to increase the screen size to make 1080p more comfortable to view.

The estimated increase from LCD Switch to Switch 2 is 6.2 to 7.91 -> ~1.3 times, the increase from 720p to 1080p is 1.5 times. So that's a fair boost to really appreciate the amount of detail.

I'm sure they contemplated having a similar overall screen and chassis size to the OLED, but decided it didn't sell the impact of higher resolution enough, or that it wasn't ergonomic when playing games with that many pixels packed into the screen.
 
nitroplum said:
Don't we already have proof of larger joycons being shipped through customs? Does that not count for the start of production on the new console?
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plenty of stuff re moulds & parts but nothing that indicates mass production has begun. best timeline has things kicking off right about now.
 
Raccoon said:
they just made it bigger for the sake of it? I guess I could see it. that'll be a selling point for a good chunk of non-raccoon people
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Pretty much, yeah, a bigger screen is desirable for a lot of people, especially since a lot of Switch use is in the home, while those "on the go" will benefit from it enhancing tabletop mode.

Raccoon said:
this part though I feel like we still have a misunderstanding on. my point was that in the design of the chip they targeted a pricepoint with a cheaper screen budget in mind

very speculative but hey welcome to this thread
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That doesn't track with what we know about T239, it does not seem to have been designed to be some big hulking expensive mess everything else needs to cowtow to, it seems to be a perfectly reasonably sized, reasonably sized chip. On 4N, it's using no more silicon, and perhaps less, than Tegra X1+, which was used in OLED Model, where they found the budget for an OLED panel. Though I'll remind you, it was a CHEAP OLED panel.

Bottom line, based on what we know that isn't relevant.

If a screen decision was made about LCD vis-a-vis the price, and it likely was, the chip was not "at fault", and it's not entirely on the straight and narrow to suggest T239's power was prioritised over a "good" screen- T239 is not an expensive chip, again. While a laminated 1080p HDR LCD screen is... Well, a good screen, with a wider colour gamut and a higher resolution than OLED Model, better colour consistency by nature of the technology, all at a reasonable price. That's less sacrifice and more being, well, reasonable. You give up "inky blacks", but get better greys, whites, and resolution, without having to blow the price past 400$.

Speculation is fine, but misrepresenting what we know, well, it'll be challenged extensively and loudly.
 
HankyPanky said:
i think it's highly unlikely a new 3D Mario is going to be able to run on the base Switch. they need true next-gen exclusives to sell the new system, the bigger the better.
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EPD has a track record of making the most for less and a lot of their recruits made it a point to work smarter, not harder at modeling ever since the Wii.
I hope that kind of work ethic continues not out of some mantra that Nintendo must be sparse in presentation but rather that effective modeling doesn't necessarily mean you gotta pump a lot of polygons into backgrounds and character models.

After hearing how much more detailed coins in Odyssey look even though they're less dense than coins in Galaxy, more advanced shading and mapping techniques will continue to be the real meat of Mario's visuals, I think. Though to stress things a bit further, Odyssey's visuals are fine even on next gen, the only thing that could be better is draw distance at this point but I'm welcome to be proven wrong if Nintendo plans to one-up that art direction.
 
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Concernt said:
That doesn't track with what we know about T239, it does not seem to have been designed to be some big hulking expensive mess everything else needs to cowtow to, it seems to be a perfectly reasonably sized, reasonably sized chip. On 4N, it's using no more silicon, and perhaps less, than Tegra X1+, which was used in OLED Model, where they found the budget for an OLED panel. Though I'll remind you, it was a CHEAP OLED panel.

Bottom line, based on what we know that isn't relevant.
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I feel like there's something core to this that I'm missing

would more space for cooling (and for more battery for said cooling) not benefit this soc at all?
 
Samuspet said:
What’s the GPU specs again in terms of the lowest they can clock it before it no longer saves any battery life. 1.5tflop handheld and 3tflop docked?

Also didn’t people shoot down 16gb ram a month or so when I suggested it because there was no need for any more than Series S?
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Existing Switch clocks would probably be the absolute bare minimum. Which you put you at roughly 1.4 and 2.4 tflops respectively.

As far as 16GB ram it probably isn't "needed" but the cost difference between 12 and 16 is probably negligible in comparison to devs probably wanting as much RAM as they can get.
 
Shareholder Chad said:
* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *
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I knew from your initial comment you were going to say it was coming out in summer because you’d long nailed your colours to that mast and as you admit, you’re going to ‘die on this hill’.

My personal view is that not many people would actually be privy to such information. That’s how they stop it coming out internally in the first place, by telling as few people as possible.

If I were you (or anyone else in here), I would just consider it speculation more than anything else.
 
Raccoon said:
I feel like there's something core to this that I'm missing

would more space for cooling (and for more battery for said cooling) not benefit this soc at all?
Click to expand...
Of course it would.

Unless the bezels are huge though, the new device, if it has a 7.91" display, wouldn't provide that. The difference in TDP offered by a device of the same thickness increasing in diagonal size by an inch or less, is pretty close to irrelevant. T239 also has limits on how high it's clocked and what it's desigend around. On 4N, we'd be looking at close to 3.5TF of performance from the power consumption of the original Switch. That's a lot of power without having to have a huge cooling system. Nintendo Switch also already has room for expanding the cooling system (which defines TDP far more than the size of the case). They could double the fins, double the heat pipe thickness, double the fan speed, and not break out of the original dimensions, in theory. Remembering also, a bigger battery means less space for the cooling system and SOC. You pick one, realistically.

To reiterate from a previous comment of mine, T239 is likely, though not certainly, on 4N. At 4N, it is not large, it is not power hungry, it is not expensive, it is not weak. It's a perfectly competent chip that could slip into an original Switch case and its original Switch cooling and provide perfectly acceptable clocks. T239, thus, is not the consideration for size here, at least that is the most likely scenario based on what we do know about it.
 
Peleo said:
Did you liquidate your stock because you expect shareholders to sell once the announcement kicks in and rebuy later? Or are you simply out for the long run?
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I suspect that he doesn't want to own the stock while knowing non-public information, and if he's interested in owning again, he'll buy after what he's heard has played out. It's important to stay out of legal trouble.
 
Also despite all my arguing and clarifying and doubling back, if the console itself ends up notably THICKER because they wanted to push T239 to some absurd clock or is on some truly short sighted node, I will be joining @Raccoon in calling it a big dumb piece of shit.

Keep it thin, Nintendo, my handbag isn't getting bigger in a hurry.

(Though as I've noted, T239 on 4N would imply a thin device, probably the same thickness as it is now for a bunch of reasons like accessory compatibility, comfort and weight considerations for children, etc.)
 
stocks is so funny

where financial irresponsibility looks like magicking six figures out of thin air because maybe you could've gotten seven in ten years
 
Concernt said:
Also despite all my arguing and clarifying and doubling back, if the console itself ends up notably THICKER because they wanted to push T239 to some absurd clock or is on some truly short sighted node,
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Pushing clocks never has been Nintendo's thing. They give number 1 priority to battery life.

There are number of things that help with battery life:
  • Node shrinks
  • design of SoC
  • a lightweight OS
  • battery capacity

Nintendo is not Asus or any of the PC handheld makers.
 
Do we think the Drake eshop will have filter where you can look at Switch 1 games only and a filter where you can look at Switch 2 games only? Will be funny day 1 when the Switch 2 filter will only have a handful of games while everything else on the eshop is on the Switch 1 filter.
 
After using the ROG ally I got one thing out it is, I enjoy my Switch OLED more because it's quiet and lightweight. Most important the battery life is amazing.
 
maniacmaison said:
Will you keep on looking through this data after the Switch 2 is released to be able to do a post mortem and check how accurate your research and theories were? I find what you all have been doing super interesting.
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We'll find out sooner than that probably. Shortly after launch (unless someone somehow scores Switch 2 unit earlier), we'll have teardown videos. That'll validate the customs data. And I'm confident it will, I don't know why anyone would fake that much customs data across multiple websites, lol.

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Serif said:
And with all that in mind - the Wii also deploys a deflicker filter for all its games which blurs the image and there is a 480p bug in the Revolution SDK that generates a low-pass filter and neither of these can be removed without homebrew, even on the Wii U. So the Wii never gave a very good looking picture in the first place unless you were playing on a CRT.
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About this:



Looks much better this way.
 
Serif said:
I'm not convinced the screen will be bad just because it is less expensive to manufacture compared to an OLED.
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Just to be clear, I don't disagree with the point being made. But I think one reason for the display quality on Nintendo's new hardware to not be consistently good is because Nintendo decided to not spend money on stringent quality control as a cost cutting measure.
 
Sol said:
Tom Warren speculated today that Microsoft on Thursday may reveal the development of an Xbox handheld device.

It makes me think of what the market for gaming handhelds could look like by 2026. Switch 2 could be competing with the Steam Deck 2, Xbox handheld, a bunch of handheld PCs, and maybe a device from Sony. In 2017 when the Switch launched it pretty much had zero competition in the dedicated handheld gaming space.

At the very least, it should force Nintendo to stay on their game, and may even prompt the development of a "Pro" version of the Switch 2 that we never got with the current Switch.
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finally some competition, Nintendo need to get out of the high horse and do better for it next console, i want Nintendo to feel pressured, pressured to act like they about to go bankrupcy and it entirely existence linger on it next console.
 
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TLZ said:
About this:



Looks much better this way.
Click to expand...

Eaugh, and people complain about jaggies now. 😅

Bit off topic though, it does make me wonder what outputs the next gen system will support. I'm veeeery much hoping and expecting 4K60HDR10, although if they give way on it a little I'd expect chroma subsampling to suffer if anything.
 
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