StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[Concernt]

NG definitely won’t be a Switch 2.0, it‘ll innovate in one way or another.

This doesn't seem very likely to say the least. Nintendo's handhelds have historically been pretty evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Compare DSi XL to New Nintendo 2DSXL and yeah, it's very clearly a 2.0 of the other. Doesn't mean they can't have more features on the newer device but completely flipping the script every generation isn't at all what Nintendo's handhelds tend to do. Even DS was an evolution on the GBA, sharing formfactor elements, a CPU and a cartridge slot.

 

[Dakhil]

 

[Darknut85]

This doesn't seem very likely to say the least. Nintendo's handhelds have historically been pretty evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Compare DSi XL to New Nintendo 2DSXL and yeah, it's very clearly a 2.0 of the other. Doesn't mean they can't have more features on the newer device but completely flipping the script every generation isn't at all what Nintendo's handhelds tend to do. Even DS was an evolution on the GBA, sharing formfactor elements, a CPU and a cartridge slot.

You are comparing a DSi XL and a 2DS XL (which is literally the second most cutdown 3DS version). I don‘t know about you, but I wouldn’t call 3DS a „DS 2.0“ it adds AR, 3D, Streetpass, Gyroscopic aiming and more. I did never suggest they‘d flip the script, but rather that they‘ll keep basically everything from Switchs and improve it and then they‘ll add new features. The reason why the DS shares many elements with GBA is that it firstly was a „third pillar“ and secondly to ensure backward compatibility. I don’t understand how that things have anything to do with innovation. Nintendo‘s take on innovation isn’t: „Let‘s scrap everything and start from scratch“ but rather to add new things to existing hardware which „makes gameplay possible which wouldn‘t work on prior hardware“. And that isn‘t just hardware but also software: Nintendo games always build up on features from prior games. One good example is the evolution from Mario World over Yoshi‘s Island to Mario N64. Despite reusing (general) gameplay from prior Mario games it‘s praised to innovate 3D.

 

[Goodtwin]

Is it safe to assume that Nintendo could market a 7.91" screen as being 8"? I see this done with TV's where it will be marketed as a 40" TV even though it actually measures at 39.5".

That's fair. I'm more of the thought that this will be the time when Nintendo does not "innovate" in the traditional sense like they have, and instead will be an Evolution rather than a Revolution of the Switch.

Nintendo actually has a strong history of successors being more evolutionary rather than revolutionary. The SNES was a direct evolution to the NES, GameBoy Advance a direct evolution of the GameBoy and 3DS an evolution of the DS. Miyamoto likes to talk about hardware needing to provide something that the previous system couldn't do, but this does not mean Nintendo is likely to go in a completely different direction like they did with the Wii. Even with the Wii, Nintendo quickly saw the writing on the wall, they caught lightning in a bottle with Wii but it was not a sustainable recipe for success and they shifted back towards a more conventional consoles, albeit with a feature that was ultimately completely optional.

Some people will argue that every time Nintendo has done a more straight forward successor, they never reach the levels of success of their predecessor and while this is true, there are a few things to consider. The biggest one being that Switch ushered in a new era of Nintendo supporting a single platform rather than having to split between portable and home console. This change has allowed Nintendo to more consistently release first party titles and avoid software droughts. Another thing to consider is that Switch is tracking to sell north of a 150 million units. Even if the successor doesn't quite match this level of success, very few consoles ever have. Sony has never matched the success of the PS2 and the PS5 is very unlikely to dethrone that legend, but that doesn't make the PS3, PS4 or PS5 unsuccessful. Nintendo is in good position to release a more straight forward successor and have it hit the ground running.

 

[darthdiablo]

Is it safe to assume that Nintendo could market a 7.91" screen as being 8"? I see this done with TV's where it will be marketed as a 40" TV even though it actually measures at 39.5".

Yup, I'd think it's pretty safe to assume. It's very small difference, I don't think the general public would really object if Nintendo advertised it as being 8" inches. with bezel included, it's probably going to be 8" anyway

 

[ILikeFeet]

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *

 

[Concernt]

You are comparing a DSi XL and a 2DS XL

I am comparing the last revision of the DS and the last revision of the 3DS

but I wouldn’t call 3DS a „DS 2.0“ it adds AR, 3D, Streetpass, Gyroscopic aiming and more.

It was the sequel to DS that built on top of it without removing anything; an iterative upgrade. The 3D was merely a get people in the door gimmick, and it was removed in both a cut down model and the last revision. AR was brought in on DSi, Streetpass was a feature in some DS games, and gyro accessories on DS existed, 3DS just folded then into the system software.

I want to see "more" in the vague sense from Switch 2 but that doesn't make it any less or a Switch 2.0.

I doubt we get anything disruptive, especially something like an AR camera or, shudder, a Kinect style motion sensor.

A bigger better Switch with bigger better controllers, that's all it has to be.

 

[yusufied]

No, he‘s hinting at NSSO (Nintendo Super Switch Online)./s

More seriously, anyone knows anything else he could hint on?

He was robbed a few weeks back and still doesn't have a PC for some reason which is preventing him from making videos at the moment.

 

[Darknut85]

I am comparing the last revision of the DS and the last revision of the 3DS



It was the sequel to DS that built on top of it without removing anything; an iterative upgrade. The 3D was merely a get people in the door gimmick, and it was removed in both a cut down model and the last revision. AR was brought in on DSi, Streetpass was a feature in some DS games, and gyro accessories on DS existed, 3DS just folded then into the system software.

I want to see "more" in the vague sense from Switch 2 but that doesn't make it any less or a Switch 2.0.

I doubt we get anything disruptive, especially something like an AR camera or, shudder, a Kinect style motion sensor.

A bigger better Switch with bigger better controllers, that's all it has to be.

So switching is also only a gimmick because it was removed from a cut down version? I already wrote in the last post, Nintendo will innovate without removing existing features, like the always have done. You can call that iterative, if you want.

 

[Shoulder]

Yup, I'd think it's pretty safe to assume. It's very small difference, I don't think the general public would really object if Nintendo advertised it as being 8" inches. with bezel included, it's probably going to be 8" anyway

This is what I was theorizing concerning the PS Portal Screen, which is 8in. I kept asking myself, is it really 8in, or is it more like 7.9in? Not to mention, it was initially said the screen may have been Sharp sourced, but the part number didn't appear to match other Sharp panels, so it wasn't really confirmed. Sounds like we still don't know what company sourced the panel weirdly enough.

So I still hold a chance the 7.91in rumor was always about the PS Portal, and never about Nintendo. We'll know for sure when the successor is announced.

 

[Concernt]

So switching is also only a gimmick because it was removed from a cut down version?

I never said this.

You can call that iterative, if you want.

Fair enough.

 

[Darknut85]

I never said this.



Fair enough.

You said that 3D was only a gimmick because it was removed by a cut down version, the same argument could be used for switching.

 

[Concernt]

You said that 3D was only a gimmick because it was removed by a cut down version, the same argument could be used for switching.

I said "and it was removed", not "since it was removed", to be clear. However, for reference, as far as we know OLED Model is the final revision of Nintendo Switch, and "Switching" was not removed from it. (Additionally, Nintendo Switch Lite can switch into Tabletop Mode with the appropriate accessories.)

 

[Darknut85]

I said "and it was removed", not "since it was removed", to be clear. However, for reference, as far as we know OLED Model is the final revision of Nintendo Switch, and "Switching" was not removed from it.

It‘s not really important which model was the last one. Both aren‘t as essential to gameplay as e.g. motion control, if you take them away the games still work. But both are still important for their respective systems.

 

[HankyPanky]

if the Sharp rumour holds any weight (new panel trialling production last year) the dev-kit would be a placeholder screen.

 

[Concernt]

if the Sharp rumour holds any weight (new panel trialling production last year) the dev-kit would be a placeholder screen.

Didn't Sharp and the devkit supplier merge their display divisions?

 

[HankyPanky]

Didn't Sharp and the devkit supplier merge their display divisions?

not sure? but isn't that dev-kit info originally from 2022? the Sharp rumour said they were only trialling production of a new panel toward the end of last year for full production this coming FY. and that the panel has been developed since the early Switch Pro rumour days. it could be something much better than the stock LCDs found in similar devices if so.

 

[Dakhil]

Didn't Sharp and the devkit supplier merge their display divisions?

I don't believe so, if fwd_bwd's analysis below is correct.

Sharp and Innolux were never integrated as this article suggested. That was an analyst opinion that didn’t pan out. IMHO it was a weird prediction from the start. Sharp has many lines of business outside of displays and TVs, such as home appliances and office automations (including this little robot), therefore Innolux would be ill-equipped to integrate with Sharp. If an integration actually occurred, there would’ve been a lot of news coverage, especially on the Japan side. Actually the recent Japanese reports alledged a frosty relationship between Sharp and Hon Hai (Foxconn); some believed that Sharp was saddled with a money-losing subsidiary due to Hon Hai founder’s dirty dealing.

 

[Hermii]

Didn't Sharp and the devkit supplier merge their display divisions?

While they never fully integrated, they are both owned by Foxconn and are definitely cooperation partners.

Innolux, Sharp cooperating on OLED panels

Innolux is cooperating with Sharp for R&D of OLED technology and supporting Sharp's construction of a 4.5 OLED factory in Japan, according to Innolux honorary chairmen Tuan Hsing-chien.

www.digitimes.com

https://www.patentlyapple.com/2017/04/sharp-is-getting-their-oled-fab-for-smartphone-displays-up-to-speed-with-the-help-of-innolux.html

wether Sharp CEO could have referred to Innolux displays I'm not sure.

Edit: i don't think it's particularly far fetched.

Innolux to start assembling TVs in India by year’s end - Taipei Times

Bringing Taiwan to the World and the World to Taiwan

www.taipeitimes.com

"Innolux would assemble Sharp TVs at a factory owned by the consumer electronics brand in a central Indian state, said Shiao, who also heads Innolux’s TV assembly business."

 

[Shoulder]

I don't believe so, if fwd_bwd's analysis below is correct.

The more we learn, the less we know. Back to square 1.

 

[Invincible2020]

Concert I know you just want a much more powerful console so like everything else but this is Nintendo and it would not be the same if Nintendo did not have some kind of innovation for the industry. I loved having the mic and camera. That alone made such a difference in wii u! Loved playing donkey Kong by blowing the cart. You don't get that on any other console! So Yes bring on AR or VR

 

[Langstonboy]

I wonder if Nvidia and Nintendo would allow devs to combine DLSS upscaling and ray reconstruction and FSR 3 frame generation, probably not knowing Nvidia and Nintendo, but it has been done on pc. Maybe Nintendo will have a custom version of frame gen backed into the dlss pipeline, but I don’t think so.

 

[Langstonboy]

Concert I know you just want a much more powerful console so like everything else but this is Nintendo and it would not be the same if Nintendo did not have some kind of innovation for the industry. I loved having the mic and camera. That alone made such a difference in wii u! Loved playing donkey Kong by blowing the cart. You don't get that on any other console! So Yes bring on AR or VR

VR AR would be cool but this is not the time for that kind of innovation.

 

[Hermii]

I wonder if Nvidia and Nintendo would allow devs to combine DLSS upscaling and ray reconstruction and FSR 3 frame generation, probably not knowing Nvidia and Nintendo, but it has been done on pc. Maybe Nintendo will have a custom version of frame gen backed into the dlss pipeline, but I don’t think so.

I think they won't mind if anybody wants to do it. The problem is, for Drakes power level it isn't really that useful, unless your game really isn't sensitive to latency.

But then you might as well do cloud and have all the power in the world.

 

[brainchild]

The million-dollar question is whether this is actually possible or practical for games. While I imagine that Nvidia would very much want it to be the case that the RTX 9090 will be able to neurally render everything in 64K at 5040 FPS and convince every AMD executive to throw themselves into the ocean, at the end of the day, neural networks are just a tool. They're good at some things and bad at others, and at least some of the rendering pipeline will require the simple math and logic that's done much more effectively by traditional computing.

Of course. To be clear, my point wasn't that I'm positive NVIDIA will achieve the goal of generating and executing all game assets and logic on the GPU, but that, by their own definition, they do not see DLSS as being just a glorified upscaler in the future. There's a significant amount of daylight between an upscaler and a game generator and so the distinction that DLSS is currently only an upscaler will not necessarily be a meaningful one in, say, 3-4 years from now.

I am less bullish on saying for sure what will or won't be possible on future NVIDIA hardware because I don't know what will comprise such hardware, but it will surely be interesting to see what fundamental changes NVIDIA make to their hardware in the future to attempt to achieve their stated goal, and how widely the new architecture will be adopted.

 

[Kazuyamishima]

I know that its technically a TFT with a different subpixel alignment, but back in the days, everyone was refering to TFT while comparing the older LCD models (with bad reaction time/bad viewing angles) to IPS and VA and i thought, that you meant that .

I got a new AOC monitor that supposedly used the same panel as a Samsung Odyssey G7 (I could be wrong) but it's really nice for a VA definitely better than a few years ago. Very slight smearing in very dark and fast paced horror games (think resident evil remakes) the viewing angles are pretty solid and the response time is good and the blacks are pretty great

 

[LiC]

 

[Raccoon]

 

[Hermii]

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *

 

[monstaar]

VR convos again lol? You want to strap a 8 inch screen to younger kids heads? Japan wants portable and has tight living quarters too.

 

[Party Sklar]

I really don't/can't understand where this "need" is coming from. If you're just going to bed, what the heck is wrong with just plugging in the adapter and calling it a night? What is the use of a "dock" that isn't connected to a television or other peripheral? Useless!

I mean, with that logic, what’s the need for like lampshades, and home decor in general? I’m sure some people would just prefer having an easier way to charge their Switch Lite with something visually nicer than a simple cable hanging on their nightstand.

 

[Kise Ryota]

VR convos again lol? You want to strap a 8 inch screen to younger kids heads?

That would be, by far, the worst way to do VR lol

 

[SoldierDelta]

That would be, by far, the worst way to do VR lol

Never stopped Nintendo before. That Nintendo Labo VR experience thing is proof that "A stupid idea isn't stupid if you do it with passion and cardboard" according to Nintendo.

 

[monstaar]

Never stopped Nintendo before. That Nintendo Labo VR experience thing is proof that "A stupid idea isn't stupid if you do it with passion and cardboard" according to Nintendo.

Agreed but at least that was a small accessory that wasn't mandatory to play "The new Mario game" or something.

 

[Kise Ryota]

Never stopped Nintendo before. That Nintendo Labo VR experience thing is proof that "A stupid idea isn't stupid if you do it with passion and cardboard" according to Nintendo.

And it got the expected budget for its software.

When talking about VR, I'm thinking more of a "nintendo quest", with an unparalleled greater budget for the software (which would also mean a much better hardware solution in my view)

 

[monstaar]

And it got the expected budget for its software.

When talking about VR, I'm thinking more of a "nintendo quest", with an unparalleled greater budget for the software (which would also mean a much better hardware solution in my view)

Posssibly but keep that stuff away from my Nintendo Switch 2 please! lol
Plus I heard the PSVR2 is tanking in sales.....

 

[SoldierDelta]

Posssibly but keep that stuff away from my Nintendo Switch 2 please! lol
Plus I heard the PSVR2 is tanking in sales.....

I think that's mainly because the PSVR2 isn't really good value for a lot of people. The Meta Quest and Valve Index, for as insane of a price tag they might have, probably are better value prospects for people who are into VR. They've also got access to more features and better libraries of games to play in VR in the first place.

Whatever the reason, the Switch 2 can probably justify it a bit better if it's literally just a strap-on headset like the Labo kit, and the use doesn't have to worry about additional wires or the like. It's not a perfect solution and def not what most people will use, but it's not a bad idea for a gimmick headset with a few games/optional modes to its name.

 

[Kise Ryota]

Posssibly but keep that stuff away from my Nintendo Switch 2 please! lol
Plus I heard the PSVR2 is tanking in sales.....

I believe standalone is the way to go. I admit I got this feeling from John Carmack even before the first Quest was released.

PSVR2 is too expensive IMO. Nintendo could offer something much cheaper while still having enough quality. Just... don't use the tablet itself as the screen lol

But I understand your fear about VR. But I believe Nintendo can make some good games reusing the engines/assets from the "flat screen" games they will release. They would use some external studios to help. But the budget wouldn't be as high as their traditional games, not even close. So I think it wouldn't negatively affect the production of our beloved flat screen games.

 

[monstaar]

I think that's mainly because the PSVR2 isn't really good value for a lot of people. The Meta Quest and Valve Index, for as insane of a price tag they might have, probably are better value prospects for people who are into VR. They've also got access to more features and better libraries of games to play in VR in the first place.

Whatever the reason, the Switch 2 can probably justify it a bit better if it's literally just a strap-on headset like the Labo kit, and the use doesn't have to worry about additional wires or the like. It's not a perfect solution and def not what most people will use, but it's not a bad idea for a gimmick headset with a few games/optional modes to its name.

How can younger kids play that? or glasses wearers? Seems like a lot of work for not enough players...

 

[Polynaut]

Ugh nothing would dampen my excitement more than the Switch 2 featuring games that require me to strap the freaking console to my face.

I’m all for Nintendo innovation, but VR ain’t it, IMO. Not in its current state.

The thing is, I think Nintendo would kill it when it comes to VR. They’d put out some of the bet VR games around. But it would require hardware dedicated for that purpose, and I don’t think they want to make that pivot, and would rather focus on their hybrid approach that has been working so well for them.

 

[lexony]

Ugh nothing would dampen my excitement more than the Switch 2 featuring games that require me to strap the freaking console to my face.

I’m all for Nintendo innovation, but VR ain’t it, IMO. Not in its current state.

The thing is, I think Nintendo would kill it when it comes to VR. They’d put out some of the bet VR games around. But it would require hardware dedicated for that purpose, and I don’t think they want to make that pivot, and would rather focus on their hybrid approach that has been working so well for them.

Yeah I see your point. For me VR needs to be on the same level of comfortability of like putting some sunglasses on. Though that will not happen in the next few years. The best what current tech can do in terms of being slick and powerful is the Apple thing and while I believe that this device will turn out alright it still has some major flaws because of the nature of the tech.

 

[mjayer]

IMO I'd love to see Nintendo get into VR but also don't want them to make the Switch slot into a headset. That is going to be very subpar.

I'd love to see a Switch VR headset that is fully standalone. They can come up to the level of something around a Quest 2 or even 3, featuring the same SOC that'll be in the Switch 2. They can then also enable it to dock to a TV and "Switch" to working just like a normal Switch 2 in TV mode.

 

[Langstonboy]

Ugh nothing would dampen my excitement more than the Switch 2 featuring games that require me to strap the freaking console to my face.

I’m all for Nintendo innovation, but VR ain’t it, IMO. Not in its current state.

The thing is, I think Nintendo would kill it when it comes to VR. They’d put out some of the bet VR games around. But it would require hardware dedicated for that purpose, and I don’t think they want to make that pivot, and would rather focus on their hybrid approach that has been working so well for them.

I think as a optional mode for switch 2 with a 200$ VR accessory but that’s expensive and not enough people will buy it and use it every day.

 

[navierStokes]

I really don't/can't understand where this "need" is coming from. If you're just going to bed, what the heck is wrong with just plugging in the adapter and calling it a night? What is the use of a "dock" that isn't connected to a television or other peripheral? Useless!

There's nothing wrong.
Just something that could be an elegant solution.
3DS had it, and from that same line of thinking, it would be neat if the switch 2 can bring back a similar method of charging..

 

[Kise Ryota]

I'd love to see a Switch VR headset that is fully standalone. They can come up to the level of something around a Quest 2 or even 3, featuring the same SOC that'll be in the Switch 2

Or they could just use the tablet (that millions will already have) as the computer unit.

This is an AR device called Magic Leap:

Spoiler

Just replace that compute unit with the switch 2 tablet:

Spoiler

Yeah, not as clean as a meta quest, I know lol
But hey! Apple is also using cables! (to connect the HMD to a battery lol)

This would be much cheaper, and the VR device wouldn't compete for components (manufacturing wise) with the hybrid console.

 

[monstaar]

Or they could just use the tablet (that millions will already have) as the computer unit.

This is an AR device called Magic Leap:

Spoiler

Just replace that compute unit with the switch 2 tablet:

Spoiler

Yeah, not as clean as a meta quest, I know lol
But hey! Apple is also using cables! (to connect the HMD to a battery lol)

This would be much cheaper, and the VR device wouldn't compete for components (manufacturing wise) with the hybrid console.

Yikes no offense but those look awful lol We want Nintendo to get up to speed with other consoles with accessibility and disabled gamers, these seem counter productive in that area.

 

[mjayer]

Or they could just use the tablet (that millions will already have) as the computer unit.

This is an AR device called Magic Leap:

Spoiler

Just replace that compute unit with the switch 2 tablet:

Spoiler

Yeah, not as clean as a meta quest, I know lol
But hey! Apple is also using cables! (to connect the HMD to a battery lol)

This would be much cheaper, and the VR device wouldn't compete for components (manufacturing wise) with the hybrid console.

Considering it seems like the Switch 2 is going to be bigger.. this kind of seems off the table to me. It would need to be strapped to you somehow, maybe some kind of backpack like strap? I dunno, seems very clunky. Perhaps they could enable it to be streamed from the switch to the headset like the Wii U?

 

[Kise Ryota]

Yikes no offense but those look awful

Like I said, not as clean as the meta quest, but not that different from the apple vision:

Spoiler

Considering it seems like the Switch 2 is going to be bigger.. this kind of seems off the table to me. It would need to be strapped to you somehow, maybe some kind of backpack like strap? I dunno, seems very clunky. Perhaps they could enable it to be streamed from the switch to the headset like the Wii U?

I believe the strap part would be easily solved TBH.

The thing about this solution is price. Streaming from the tablet to the HMD would require a lot of processing power inside the HMD itself. We would have 4 cameras on the HMD for tracking, and if you go wireless, now you need an SoC inside the headset that's capable of processing the data coming from the cameras to resolve the positional tracking. They're not going to send that camera data through Wi-Fi to the tablet so it can do all the processing and then return the information required...
And, of course, you'll also need a small storage, RAM, battery, and Wi-Fi on the HMD. At this point it basically becomes a standalone device, defeating my proposition of it being cheap.

Well, to me it seems a good tradeoff, offering something that's between a poor LABO offer and a expensive "Nintendo Quest" using an SoC (and all the other components) inside the HMD. But hey, I can see why some people wouldn't like it at all.

 

[monstaar]

Like I said, not as clean as the meta quest, but not that different from the apple vision:

Spoiler

I believe the strap part would be easily solved TBH.

The thing about this solution is price. Streaming from the tablet to the HMD would require a lot of processing power inside the HMD itself. We would have 4 cameras on the HMD for tracking, and if you go wireless, now you need an SoC inside the headset that's capable of processing the data coming from the cameras to resolve the positional tracking. They're not going to send that camera data through Wi-Fi to the tablet so it can do all the processing and then return the information required...
And, of course, you'll need a small storage, RAM, battery, and Wi-Fi on the HMD. At this point it basically becomes a standalone device, defeating my proposition of it being cheap.

Well, to me it seems a good tradeoff, offering something that's between a poor LABO offer and a expensive "Nintendo Quest" using an SoC (and all the other components) inside the HMD. But hey, I can see why some people wouldn't like it at all.

Yes I appreciate all the thought you put into it! I just think its wasted resources in my opinion Put that man power and energy into things millions of players will play (older franchises, better online/social features, NSO projects...)

 

[Kise Ryota]

Yes I appreciate all the thought you put into it! I just think its wasted resources in my opinion Put that man power and energy into things millions of players will play (older franchises, better online/social features, NSO projects...)

I got it, you just don't want VR at all

But the nice thing about the Switch is that you can do different things with it, like the LABO project (which wasn't something for me BTW, but I liked to see it), Mario Kart Live, and Ring Fit. It's a versatile device, and that's really beautiful. There's something for everyone, and VR could be like that too (just not... the VR LABO lol)

But luckily for you, I have no involvement in Nintendo's decisions xD