• Hey everyone, staff have documented a list of banned content and subject matter that we feel are not consistent with site values, and don't make sense to host discussion of on Famiboards. This list (and the relevant reasoning per item) is viewable here.

StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Reader mode
Dakhil said:
As I've said before, I personally expect Nintendo to continue releasing gimmicks in the form of separate hardware accessories (e.g. Nintendo Labo, Ring-Con, Nintendo Switch Leg Strap, etc.) for Nintendo's new hardware.
Click to expand...

That's actually a valid point.
My only questionmark is - Nintendo is strong with casual and family audiences and DLSS and in general a very similar hardware with stringer visuals alone is a tough sale to this audience, while a new gameplay "gimmick" can be.
So I kind expect them to try both at the same times better hardware for core gamers and some other innovation that appeals to wider audiences.

Alternatively they will just have an absolute must buy launch window game for this audience, aka Mario Kart.
 
ertaboy356b said:
I can almost guarantee it lol. The horsemen are lurking after all.
Click to expand...
GENGFgdWoAAgOdP

Only took 6 hours LOL
 
'Gimmick' has an inescapable negative connotation. The implication is a feature that is not of real value, intended to draw out buyers because of its novelty.

The Switch's hybrid-ness is not widely perceived as a 'gimmick' because a vast audience enjoys its flexibility. The '3D' feature of the 3DS is called a gimmick because many saw it as just an extraneous feature, at most a cool visual option that is toggled off.

Even a similar idea across two devices - dual screens - has folks split on its gimmickry. Dual screens on the 3/DS is a cute way of expanding screen resolution, allowing a touch surface to coexist with a main screen, allowing for several screen aspect ratios like portrait or book mode, and leveraging a clamshell design. Meanwhile on the Wii U it was seen as disruptive, a distraction from the main television screen and involving a clunky controller.

But really no one will be on the same page about what has 'real value' or not. People immediately jumped to calling HD rumble and the IR sensor gimmicks. But as someone who loves rumble, I think haptics are so useful in refining the feedback from a game. I love when indie games like Kunai used HD rumble to generate little noises or feel the clashing of swords. And I don't think anyone could have predicted that Nintendo would design physical toys (LABO) that push the Switch's modularity and its IR sensor to design this sort of augmented reality LEGO experience. Even without those two features - the joy cons themselves still carry on that 'Wii HD' lineage with split motion and pointer controls.

Nintendo should go all in with the controller features and enhance the motion and touch experience. These kinds of additions can be used in both handheld and docked mode and can offer more input for games while being optional for devs. I have found touch + haptics, specifically, to be a fun and convincing way of interacting with a device e.g. Steam Deck and phone. I see the Switch as a synthesis of Nintendo's past ideas but 'touch' has been starved of opportunity because the touch screen is not available in docked mode and so developers don't even bother to program in touch options even where it makes sense. Having some kind of touch input available in all modes would be interesting.
 
Last edited:
eye0h said:
GENGFgdWoAAgOdP

Only took 6 hours LOL
Click to expand...
I was curious to see the video and most of it is things that happened in the week and like 2 minutes of the "retail leak". He does say he talk to some retailers in Spain and said they have been moving things around to prepare for it (no date).
 
0
Individualised said:
I'm going to try to word this in the most respectful way possible, but it feels like the people here talking about things like tabletop mode and local multiplayer being underused are not aware of Nintendo Switch being used outside their own bubble.

Nintendo Switch is a very mainstream product. I see all kinds of people in public with a Switch. And I have seen many settings/been in situations where someone with a Switch says "hey, wanna play Mario Kart/Mario Party/etc?" and hands over a joycon/sets up tabletop mode. These are ideas that are fundamental to the appeal of the Switch. It's not just a portable console, it's the most convenient and casual way to play multiplayer games on the go or in a public setting. If anything Switch 2 will refine and improve these concepts, not get rid of them.
Click to expand...
Honestly in the 7 years Switch has been out, and me being out and about, not once have I seen that happen. I've seen people play the Switch outside with friends, but it was always either they all had Switches and playing together, or some had and the others just watched them play portable.

If I'm in people's homes, either portable or on TV.

That's just my experience.
 
As long as this "gimmick" isn't intrusive to the gaming experience, I'll be good. It'll very likely be modular and also optional like the Switch's motion controls and the touchscreen. I think that's the source of tension here; how integral will these features be? If it's not modular, I hope it's more like DS and less like Wii U.
 
Giancarlo said:
Click to expand...

"The Steam Deck and its competitors are probably going to be more powerful than whatever the Switch 2 ends up being"

"The handheld PCs are going to be likely at worst equal and most likely better than the Switch 2 in terms of processing power"

Not one mention of cost, size, battery, console optimization, etc. 🙄
 
Gimmick has an inherently negative definition, it is not just a connotation. Let's wip out the Cambridge dictionary:

GIMMICK
Click to expand...
something that is not serious or of real value that is used to attract people's attention or interest temporarily, especially to make them buy something
Click to expand...
In my view, this is not applicable in any significant way to Switch' hybridity: that fundamentally and permanently changes (or, more precisely, adds to) the ecosystem in gaming and for Nintendo, since they restructured their development pipeline around this single system. It is a core focus of the product, not in any way a gimmick. Plus it produced real value for the consumer that is not just momentary shiny new thing.

'Gimmick' would imo be more accurately (notice that 'gimmick' contains a value judgment in its definition, so something can only be more or less of a gimmick) applied to things like HD rumble, the 3d in the 3ds, and the dualsense controller (again, a relative concept). Things that add some interest but not a large amount of actual value to the product, and could very well go away with time or at least remain a very minor part of the product.

Will Nintendo bring some new gimmick similar to HD rumble? I think they will, but their main focus imo will be developing their core focus, which is the hybrid system and its capabilities, just like they developed a new core product for the 2017 release, and added some non-intrusive gimmicks along the way.
 
Last edited:
YolkFolk said:
At least they’ll be positively surprised when Switch 2 is unveiled. Several people from IGN seem to think it won’t be as powerful as a standard SteamDeck. Seems an odd take to me and completely at odds with any known information, which they are also oblivious to.
Click to expand...
Maybe they believe its 8nm. Or maybe they are oblivious to the fact that the SD isn't the pinnacle of power efficiency.
 
YolkFolk said:
At least they’ll be positively surprised when Switch 2 is unveiled. Several people from IGN seem to think it won’t be as powerful as a standard SteamDeck. Seems an odd take to me and completely at odds with any known information, which they are also oblivious to.
Click to expand...
I understand that it's for the better that they don't go around reporting our stuff like crazy but it really annoys me when mainstream news sources talk shit like this.
 
Giancarlo said:
see why PC gaming could be a major competion for Nintendo next console


Click to expand...

They'll be fine
Steam Deck has like 3 million lifetime sales
Switch 2 will come out and within the first few months on the shelf people will see a 3D Mario, a Mario Kart, MP4, some heavy hitter third parties, and (probably cross gen) Pokemon and WW/TP HD

It's going to demolish the entire Deck 2s future lifetime sales in a week
 
Hermii said:
Maybe they believe its 8nm. Or maybe they are oblivious to the fact that the SD isn't a pinnacle of power efficiency.
Click to expand...
More likely the latter. I don't think most people are thinking this specifically about process node. Many are convinced that the Switch 2 must be the Steam Deck's size to match its power.

Another quote from that podcast above:
"When the Switch 1 arrived the chip that was inside it was already more than a year old and so it was already a bit out of date in terms of what the comparative mobile processing was so I would not be surprised to see that again happen and for it to quickly be outstripped"

Everything is just being compared in absolute terms of 'raw' power. DLSS or upscaling is brought up zero times. No regard to the price of the ROG Ally / MSI Claw / Legion Go being $600-$700.
 
Hermii said:
Maybe they believe its 8nm. Or maybe they are oblivious to the fact that the SD isn't the pinnacle of power efficiency.
Click to expand...
To be fair, I have the feeling that even Digital Foundry are in the mode that the chip will be 8nm, probably because Ampere was (even though Lovelace is on a different node and the T239 takes features from this architecture as well). I also think that the people at this IGN podcast have narry an idea how to even begin to determine what is and is not possible for a given chip at a given power draw (which is fine).
 
Mpl90 said:
Meanwhile, the survey on the platforms they're currently working on is something that I would consider a much, much stronger evidence of things actually happening. The % of people who stated that they're working on the Switch successor isn't unusually high, which makes sense: again, given the poll of people interviewed, it makes perfect sense that only a tiny amount of them have been actually informed of the full technical details of the platform (so work can start on properly-specced PCs even before the dev kits arrive) and that an even tinier amount has already access to dev kits; after all, 18% of the interviewed developers stated to be part of an AAA company, 11% of an AA studio. Therefore, I don't agree with the idea that the vast majority of the developers replying to this specific part of the survey are merely stating their intention rather than being actually working on it.
Click to expand...
We can assume most or all of them have a game in development which they plan to release on Nintendo's hardware, so they are "actually working on it." But rather than 240 out of 3000 in a sample that was 62% North American/26% European, 32% indie/38% non-AAA or AA developers, I think low double digits is the max who may have already been signed on with Nintendo to develop and release for the system.
 
The main opinion on the internet outside this thread is that the next switch will be between xbox one and ps4 in terms of power, with over the ps4 as the most optimistic and definitely not on par with the steam deck, of course those are just uneducated guesses thrown around because it's a nintendo console and those are always underpowered. So it doesn't surprise me that most discussion will be debating with that range in mind.
 
Zedark said:
To be fair, I have the feeling that even Digital Foundry are in the mode that the chip will be 8nm, probably because Ampere was (even though Lovelace is on a different node and the T239 takes features from this architecture as well). I also think that the people at this IGN podcast have narry an idea how to even begin to determine what is and is not possible for a given chip at a given power draw (which is fine).
Click to expand...
Yea and even though everything seems to point to 5nm, there is still a non zero chance we are wrong. If we are, I can see it being weaker than SD.
 
Kartina said:
The main opinion on the internet outside this thread is that the next switch will be between xbox one and ps4 in terms of power, with over the ps4 as the most optimistic and definitely not on par with the steam deck, of course those are just uneducated guesses thrown around because it's a nintendo console and those are always underpowered. So it doesn't surprise me that most discussion will be debating with that range in mind.
Click to expand...
That's good though, it's works to Nintendos advantage to have the mass market expecting a less powerful device and then pleasantly surprising them with a more powerful device, than having expectations too high and be disappointed by a less powerful device

For them, this will just be free hype on announcement day
 
fantomena said:
Im sorta suprised how seemingly obsessed this thread is with the Steam Deck.

The Steam Deck is as of right now not any threat to Nintendo, but some posts here reads like it is.
Click to expand...
If anything it will help them, because more devs will scale their games for a lower spec.
 
Last edited:
Joy-Boy said:
That's good though, it's works to Nintendos advantage to have the mass market expecting a less powerful device and then pleasantly surprising them with a more powerful device, than having expectations too high and be disappointed by a less powerful device

For them, this will just be free hype on announcement day
Click to expand...
I think it's going to be the opposite, since the next switch power will probably be less obvious and more hard to pinpoint with dlss and it's also going to be compared to ps5 and series x from the start a lot of misinformation and speculation that we're seeing now might just stick for years to come, it wouldn't surprise me if the idea that the next switch is just as powerful as a ps4 will stick for years after it's release, I mean I know people that thought that the switch wasn't as powerful as a ps3 years after launch, unoptimized ports and faulty memories of past generations can do this type of magic.
 
Hermii said:
Yea and even though everything seems to point to 5nm, there is still a non zero chance we are wrong. If we are, I can see it being weaker than SD.
Click to expand...
The steam deck is 400$ and has many things that cost valve more because they’re less imbedded into the mobo, they buy much less than Nintendo will, the Soc is less efficient due to its cpu and gpu architecture and process node, it was supposed to come out in late 2021 so it’s very old, etc etc. Unless they want to make 3rd party devs very mad and save some up front r&d cost.
 
fantomena said:
Im sorta suprised how seemingly obsessed this thread is with the Steam Deck.

The Steam Deck is as of right now not any threat to Nintendo, but some posts here reads like it is.
Click to expand...
I just like the Steam Deck and it's cool to see what hardware similarly (or slightly larger) than the Switch Format can be capable of.
 
Langstonboy said:
The steam deck is 400$ and has many things that cost valve more because they’re less imbedded into the mobo, they buy much less than Nintendo will, the Soc is less efficient due to its cpu and gpu architecture and process node, it was supposed to come out in late 2021 so it’s very old, etc etc. Unless they want to make 3rd party devs very mad and save some up front r&d cost.
Click to expand...
I meant that Samsung 8nm is a very bad process node, and Switch in handheld mode will operate at a much lower power budget than the SD. I don't see that cpu and gpu architecture will be enough to compensate, if it is indeed 8nm.

However I'm all in on team 5nm.
 
Last edited:
Dakhil said:
As I've said before, I personally expect Nintendo to continue releasing gimmicks in the form of separate hardware accessories (e.g. Nintendo Labo, Ring-Con, Nintendo Switch Leg Strap, etc.) for Nintendo's new hardware.
Click to expand...
This is the best way to do it. I personally loved Labo and bought the VR set for example. It was extremely gimmick and very fun without compromising the design of the actual console like what happened with the 3DS or the Wii U. The modular design of the Switch allows for such innovations and I would love to see much more this next generation.
 
Serif said:
"The Steam Deck and its competitors are probably going to be more powerful than whatever the Switch 2 ends up being"

"The handheld PCs are going to be likely at worst equal and most likely better than the Switch 2 in terms of processing power"

Not one mention of cost, size, battery, console optimization, etc. 🙄
Click to expand...
And none of them will play the latest Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Animal Crossing and Super Smash. If Xbox is not eating Sony and Nintendo's lunch, these consoles wont either. But it's very cool they exist and that they try to maximize what they can do.
 
People overestimate the Steam Deck and forget the layers of inefficiency (x86, PC ports, compatibility layer, full desktop Linux).

I can't even run DOOM (2016) at locked 1080p 60 FPS in the heat of combat, at low settings, at 90 FOV, with Vulkan. The performance ends up roughly equivalent to last-gen consoles. Enabling FSR/2 in games allows it to push past the native rendering restrictions.

Seriously, it's a great handheld. I'm not knocking it. But it has its limits, which is expected of the platform. It is not meant to be or designed as a hybrid console. For the Steam Deck, TV play is a nice extra feature with some bonuses (VRR). For the Switch, TV play is one of the major selling points. So all these popular comparisons between the Switch 2 and PC handhelds trying to equivocate them are just utterly unconvincing.
 
YolkFolk said:
Gaming fandom law -

A new idea shall only be considered a gimmick if said new idea is implemented by Nintendo.

———

I remember when people who had Playstations thought the N64’s analogue stick was a gimmick - “That stupid little joystick” was genuinely a comment I heard more than once.
Click to expand...
I mean....looking back to the PS1, this is basically the list of new ideas seen on Sony and Xbox consoles:
  • Dual stick controls
  • Second pair of shoulder buttons
  • Kinect
  • Touch pads on controllers
  • Paying for Internet access
  • Share buttons on controllers
A lot of the stuff that's a genuinely new idea for gaming was done by Nintendo first and labeled a gimmick:
  • D-pad
  • Analog stick
  • Shoulder buttons
  • Rumble
  • Second screens
  • 4-player couch co-op
  • Practical wireless controllers
  • Motion controls
  • 3D screens
  • Cameras
  • Hybrid console
  • VR
Sony and Microsoft mostly iterate upon gimmicks from other companies at which point the public is used to the idea enough to stop calling it a gimmick. The perfect examples are the Rumble Pack and motion controls, which were labeled gimmicks and are now ubiquitous features.

Whenever you do something new, it's usually going to be met with some skepticism and the gimmick label. Since other companies rarely do anything new, you rarely hear them described as having gimmicks.
 
Darknut85 said:
I agree they don‘t have to come up with a gimmick, but Nintendo has mentioned multiple times in the last years, that they‘re trying to build games on new hardware which wouldn’t be possible on prior one. The question is how big or small it‘ll be. Whatever it is, it‘s probably going to expand the Switch concept.
Click to expand...
...but that can as easily describe "the CPU is ten times more capable" as it does "full spacial tracking controllers".

I think the gimmick discussion has had its well poisoned. Primarily by Nintendo themselves, where they've put gimmicks above performance or even good games in the past, and yes, there is some sentiment among Nintendo fans that gimmicks are bad because of it.

I don't think this thread is inherently hostile to the idea of gimmicks, but I think most regulars want to see it fit with the picture of the hardware we've gathered so far. Things outside of that are rejected not off-handedly but because from what we know they seem unlikely. For me I think I skew even more anti-gimmick than this, not because I dislike them, I don't, but because I believe many suggestions are painfully impractical, a front facing camera on the console for motion controls for instance. A necessarily thicker bezel and having to reorganise the TV setup so it can see me? Forcing millions to reorganise their TV setups for some games? It doesn't fit with what we know, and it is impractical, so it is rejected.

"Gimmicks", enhancements that don't interfere with the core concept and usability, are usually taken quite well here. Scrolling shoulder buttons have been discussed to death, alternatives posed, problems raised. More IR Motion Cameras for better motion controls, touch surfaces, moving SR and SL, these are entertained here, they're possible, and possibly practical. Sensor bars, personally, I argue against, being antiquated, inconvenient and incompatible with the hybrid concept (Vs additional IR Motion Cameras, which can still be used for better tracking in handheld mode.).

Nintendo Switch's core appeal is not interefered with by its many gimmicks, I would expect them to continue that trend, any enhancements will simply not get in the way. Nor should they.
 
Last edited:
Complaining about gimmicks is a gimmick.
So stop doing it, you gimmicky gimmicks.

And play GIMMICK on the NES or GIMMICK Special Edition on the Switch !
 
fantomena said:
Im sorta suprised how seemingly obsessed this thread is with the Steam Deck.

The Steam Deck is as of right now not any threat to Nintendo, but some posts here reads like it is.
Click to expand...
It's the only other relevant portable system on the market, and it's good for comparing specs to. It has nothing to do with whether or not it's a threat to Nintendo or not, this is the hardware thread.
 
I don't think they would drop three big hitters of that scale within 3 months, especially when two of them (in whatever combination you like) will easily carry ReDraketed over the holidays together with that "new tech toy" feeling.
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
Last edited:


Back
Top Bottom