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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

I don’t understand the obsession with a gimmick or unique feature. Switching so seamlessly is unique in the market. They don’t need to add something new. Half of Nintendo’s gaming devices have had a gimmick, the other half have only been more powerful than the previous one. The only gimmicks I think they should add are things like streetpass.
 
I don’t understand the obsession with a gimmick or unique feature. Switching so seamlessly is unique in the market. They don’t need to add something new. Half of Nintendo’s gaming devices have had a gimmick, the other half have only been more powerful than the previous one. The only gimmicks I think they should add are things like streetpass.
Was there always this anti gimmick attitude in the Nintendo Community?
 
I don’t understand the obsession with a gimmick or unique feature. Switching so seamlessly is unique in the market. They don’t need to add something new. Half of Nintendo’s gaming devices have had a gimmick, the other half have only been more powerful than the previous one. The only gimmicks I think they should add are things like streetpass.
Nintendo has released five consoles in a row with gimmicks. The DS had two screens, the Wii had motion controls, the 3DS had 3D screens, the Wii U had a extra tablet, and the Switch was a hybrid. I'd be willing to bet the Switch 2 has another gimmick, we just don't know what it is yet.
 
Nintendo has released five consoles in a row with gimmicks. The DS had two screens, the Wii had motion controls, the 3DS had 3D screens, the Wii U had a extra tablet, and the Switch was a hybrid. I'd be willing to bet the Switch 2 has another gimmick, we just don't know what it is yet.
My best guess would be something AI related.
 
Do you really think the tensor cores will be used for anything other than rasterization?
Tensor cores dont do rasterization, thry do matrix math in formats that machine learning and ai would utilize. And from what I've read, Nvidia already routes some fp16 operations through it, based on some folks reading of Nvidia inspector.
 
Tensor cores dont do rasterization, thry do matrix math in formats that machine learning and ai would utilize. And from what I've read, Nvidia already routes some fp16 operations through it, based on some folks reading of Nvidia inspector.
From the context, I think what he meant to say was "rendering".
 
Im not anti gimmick, Im just challenging the Nintendo = gimmick equiation. I’ve loved most past gimmicks, but I don’t think they HAVE to come up with a new one for the Switch 2.
I agree they don‘t have to come up with a gimmick, but Nintendo has mentioned multiple times in the last years, that they‘re trying to build games on new hardware which wouldn’t be possible on prior one. The question is how big or small it‘ll be. Whatever it is, it‘s probably going to expand the Switch concept.
 
My best guess would be something AI related.
Nah, I think it'll be a camera and a mic. It's not a huge system defining gimmick, but I don't expect the Switch 2 to have that anyways. A camera on a home console would be the next evolution of motion controls, but now you wouldn't even need a controller! You could bring back games like Nintendogs and Tomodachi Life, introduce voice console commands (basically Siri or Cortana), and have native video chats while playing games. Add in features like the scroll-wheels, customization to the home menu, and basic apps like a web browser, andnow you have a console that feels like its own thing despite being very iterative.
 
Gaming fandom law -

A new idea shall only be considered a gimmick if said new idea is implemented by Nintendo.

———

I remember when people who had Playstations thought the N64’s analogue stick was a gimmick - “That stupid little joystick” was genuinely a comment I heard more than once.
Wait till Sony implements Amiibos, it'll become a non-gimmick at that point lol. Xbox achievements = gimmick, Sony trophies = not a gimmick. lol
 
Nah, I think it'll be a camera and a mic. It's not a huge system defining gimmick, but I don't expect the Switch 2 to have that anyways. A camera on a home console would be the next evolution of motion controls, but now you wouldn't even need a controller! You could bring back games like Nintendogs and Tomodachi Life, introduce voice console commands (basically Siri or Cortana), and have native video chats while playing games. Add in features like the scroll-wheels, customization to the home menu, and basic apps like a web browser, andnow you have a console that feels like its own thing despite being very iterative.
Camera and mic is a lot more useful when accelerated by AI hardware. The optical flow accelerator (OFA) is basically built for cameras/ video feeds. Frame generation was partly something Nvidia invented to justify putting them in gaming cards. And what about a Nintendogs game where the dog actually can learn behaviour that would surprise even the developers? Also pretty sure Siri and Cortana use AI hardware.
 
I think you don't understand Nintendo. There was never a time Nintendo was not gimmicky. The only difference was during the touch generation (including the wii, u, and 3DS). Was there gimmick was mandatory, that's it. However, they kinda ended up alienating some of their audience.

Words can't describe how much I hate the fact that innovation has become frowned upon just because people like you were annoyed by people enjoying Wii Sports.

What makes Nintendo hardware special is that it plays Nintendo software. Isn’t that enough?
And some of the best and most creative Nintendo software was made possible by (or at least conceived because of) "gimmicky" hardware. Wii Sports/Wii Sports Resort/Switch Sports, Wii Play, Nintendogs, Brain Age, Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2, Skyward Sword, Nintendo Land, Super Mario Maker, Splatoon, ARMS, Ring Fit Adventure, Clubhouse Games, etc.

Nintendo software is more than just the newest open-world Zelda, and you can in part thank Nintendo's hardware innovations for making that possible.
 
I don’t understand the obsession with a gimmick or unique feature. Switching so seamlessly is unique in the market. They don’t need to add something new. Half of Nintendo’s gaming devices have had a gimmick, the other half have only been more powerful than the previous one. The only gimmicks I think they should add are things like streetpass.
It's not a obsession, it's an interest in the evolution of gaming, such as the N64 and Wii provided. And the Switch.
A pure Switch 2 would be a great gaming console but I'm curious what one of the most innovative hardware teams in the industry is able to offer to change the game. Especially after they made a fortune and are able to put money and manpower behind it.
And I'm happy to take some missteps, even if I don't think it would happen.
 
Gaming fandom law -

A new idea shall only be considered a gimmick if said new idea is implemented by Nintendo.

———

I remember when people who had Playstations thought the N64’s analogue stick was a gimmick - “That stupid little joystick” was genuinely a comment I heard more than once.
Apples to oranges, other companies tried to implement Nintendo's "new" (this is sometimes debatable) ideas but nothing stuck around for more than one generation. Look at stuff like early Kinect (before it became more of a "voice assistant") or the PlayStation Move that tried to capitalise on motion controls but failed miserably. Even now motion controls as much of an innovation they could've been are somewhat of an afterthought on Switch.
Stuff becomes innovative only when the industry adopts it.

Words can't describe how much I hate the fact that innovation has become frowned upon just because people like you were annoyed by people enjoying Wii Sports.
I think you are projecting quite a bit.
 
My best guess would be something AI related.

As someone from country without official Nintendo localisation.. it'd be nice to have at least machine translated texts. Nintendo is quite good at making games accessible to wide audience, but localisation is lacking. AI could be a way for small markets like mine.
 
Apples to oranges, other companies tried to implement Nintendo's "new" (this is sometimes debatable) ideas but nothing stuck around for more than one generation. Look at stuff like early Kinect (before it became more of a "voice assistant") or the PlayStation Move that tried to capitalise on motion controls but failed miserably. Even now motion controls as much of an innovation they could've been are somewhat of an afterthought on Switch.
Stuff becomes innovative only when the industry adopts it.


I think you are projecting quite a bit.
But if Nintendo didn‘t innovate we wouldn‘t have things like the D-Pad today. Sometimes gimmicks work, sometimes not, but you shouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water. And stuff is innovative, because the industry hasn‘t adopted it yet.
 
"Lying" has nothing to do with it, but the vast majority of these ~240 respondents would be developers who were simply intending to release their game on Nintendo's presumptive next hardware, not ones who actually had access to develop games for the real system in October 2023 when the survey was conducted. This would be an odd thing to consider the "first real confirmation."

This is the correct and proper take... which 99% of reporting will ignore & clickbait in a means to express a conclusion not found in said poll.
I have to respectfully disagree with the take that the whole survey doesn't mean much in terms of developers working on the Switch 2 / Switch Chupacabra / whatever.
The replies about the platforms developers have the most interest in working for (the one where 32% of the surveyed developers answered with the Switch successor's option) just show exactly that, interest. At the time the survey took place (last October), given the poll of people surveyed, the vast majority of that interest comes from people who may've just heard about the system through rumours and such. Heck, some of them may have based their interest on what said in this thread, even! It's an interesting tidbit, but it doesn't tell us much about active development on the platform.

Meanwhile, the survey on the platforms they're currently working on is something that I would consider a much, much stronger evidence of things actually happening. The % of people who stated that they're working on the Switch successor isn't unusually high, which makes sense: again, given the poll of people interviewed, it makes perfect sense that only a tiny amount of them have been actually informed of the full technical details of the platform (so work can start on properly-specced PCs even before the dev kits arrive) and that an even tinier amount has already access to dev kits; after all, 18% of the interviewed developers stated to be part of an AAA company, 11% of an AA studio. Therefore, I don't agree with the idea that the vast majority of the developers replying to this specific part of the survey are merely stating their intention rather than being actually working on it.

But also, it probably helps to see this 8% of surveyed developers stating that they were already working on the Switch successor back in October with the context of what happened when the previous State of the Game Industry reports happened to mention yet-to-be-released, if not unannounced platforms in their surveys.

GDC 2013 State of the Industry Report, released in February 2013 - https://www.vg247.com/gdc-survey-re...e-developing-for-platforms-other-than-console

In terms of the Nintendo Wii U, only 4.6% of developers are currently making a Wii U game, and just 6.4% of our surveyed developers are making their next game for the console. (Finally, an identical 11% of respondents are making their next game for upcoming Sony and Microsoft platforms.)

GDC 2016 State of the Industry Report, released in January 2016 - https://www.ign.com/articles/2016/01/29/only-5-of-developers-working-on-a-wii-u-game-survey-says

Developer interest in Nintendo platforms, the GDC survey says, has been declining. Just 5 percent of developers surveyed are working on Wii U titles, with 3 percent bringing a game to the Nintendo 3DS. The Nintendo NX fairs even worse, with less than 1 percent of respondents working on a game for the unannounced platform.

GDC 2020 State of the Industry Report, released in January 2020 - https://www.globenewswire.com/en/ne...ms-Renewed-Faith-in-VR-Among-Game-Makers.html

While the majority of respondents said their current projects are being developed for the PC (56 percent) and/or mobile (39 percent), 11 percent of survey respondents said their current project is being developed for the PlayStation 5, and 9 percent said they’re currently targeting the next generation Xbox Series X (still known as “Project Scarlett” at the time the survey was conducted).

All surveys that were taken between one year to one year and a half before the respective platforms' releases (and in Switch's case we can argue that back then the platform was still aiming for the Holiday 2016 target launch). Take into consideration that these surveys should be a reflection of the Western development scene for the most part, but still, we can say that the results showed turned out to be decently accurate. Both PS4 / Xbox One and PS5 / Xbox Series X | S had relatively high numbers of developers replying that they were already working on games for those sets of platforms and both sets of systems did see pretty good multiplatform early support. On the other end of the spectrum, the Switch: the less-than-1% share was pretty evident in its very early lineup. The percentage of people actively working on Switch was still relatively low in the GDC 2017 State of the Industry Report (published in January 2017, so very shortly before the launch of the platform) - https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/gdc-state-of-the-industry-2017/

Of the polled developers, only 3 percent are currently working on games for the Nintendo Switch. Although Nintendo’s console hasn’t launched yet, only 5 percent of respondents expected their next game to be released on Switch. Despite these low numbers, developers were generally optimistic about Switch sales. Fifty percent thought the Switch will sell more units than the Wii U, which has sold approximately 13 million units worldwide. Only 13 percent thought the Switch would underperform the Wii U, while 37 percent were unsure.

Overall, the share of people who replied that they're already working on the Switch successor far outclasses the Switch at a similar timeframe while also being very close to the levels of PS4 / Xbox One and PS5 / Xbox Series X | S.
 
The only Nintendo consoles without a "gimmick" have been the GBC and GBA. Everything else had a "gimmick". But most of them nowadays are seen as natural evolution (SNES diamond layout) or a paradigm revolution (analog stick, gyro... though I guess for some people gyro is still a useless gimmick).

The difference between a "gimmick" and an r/evolution is in how many games are covered and/or how many possibilities are open. The GamePad was the ultimate gimmick, because, ultimately, nobody had a clear idea of how to use it. The analog stick was a clever idea that the entire industry copied.

Nintendo's strength is their integrated hardware and software development. The software developers might need a new hardware interface to fully realize their vision. The hardware developers might come up with an interesting idea opening new doors for games. This is very clear with the GC -> Wii transition. Play Pikmin 1-2, Metroid Prime 1-2, Paper Mario TTYD, Luigi's Mansion and you'll see why at some point somebody came up with the idea of a controller with a pointer and an accelerometer.

I believe we'll see some "gimmicks" on Switch 2 Joycons. Re-integrating a mic and a camera is a must for scanning QR codes when you have to share custom items / levels, and Nintendogs. Scrollable shoulders would be a very good idea for games with a large inventory, like Zelda and to a lesser extent Animal Crossing. Pikmin would benefit too. And while gyro is good, it hasn't replicated the accuracy of the Wii Sensor Bar yet, so maybe it could be tweaked (how? No idea!). These are all "gimmicks" (more like innovations) that would affect a large number of Nintendo games.
 
But if Nintendo didn‘t innovate we wouldn‘t have things like the D-Pad today. Sometimes gimmicks work, sometimes not, but you shouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water. And stuff is innovative, because the industry hasn‘t adopted it yet.
No I agree that Nintendo does innovate, probably the most innovative company in the industry. I just don't think it makes sense to compare something like analog controls to motion controls or having two screens. I personally would never call the d-pad or the analog stick gimmicks.
I disagree on your definition of innovative in the context of gaming though.
 
Think whatever "gimmicks" or technologies are added hardware wise will be additive to the overall Switch experience since Nintendo wouldn't want to create something so disruptive that it'd compromise backwards compatibility and also their relationships with third party developers/publishers.

Essentially a DS to 3DS move where sure you could use the 3D if you wanted but it wasn't mandatory to develop for it.

Also no scrollable shoulder button but capacitive ones instead which would essentially serve the same function if needed but with way less chance of breaking.
 
No I agree that Nintendo does innovate, probably the most innovative company in the industry. I just don't think it makes sense to compare something like analog controls to motion controls or having two screens. I personally would never call the d-pad or the analog stick gimmicks.
I disagree on your definition of innovative in the context of gaming though.
So just because dual screens weren‘t adapted by a huge chunk of the industry they aren‘t innovative? There are many good ideas which were rejected by the industry in favor of worse standards. I’d say whatever something is innovative or not depends on how new and original it is and how useful it is. But I think one of the biggest problems of discussing gimmicks and innovation is that everyone has a slightly different definition what they are.
 
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So just because dual screens weren‘t adapted by a huge chunk of the industry they aren‘t innovative? There are many good ideas which were rejected by the industry in favor of worse standards. I’d whatever something is innovative or not depends on how new and original it is and how useful it is. But I think one of the biggest problems of discussing gimmicks and innovation is that everyone has a slightly different definition what they are.
Judging by other comments on the thread it seems like people give it completely different connotations, for example to some "gimmick" might just be a disparaging term while to me it basically just means "unique feature".

(I liked the dual screens, between the DS, the DSi and 3DS lines of consoles I own 6 "ds" handhelds)

Edit: It's also possible that the meaning "gimmick" tends to have in japanese (I come across it surprisingly often) skewed my perception of what it actually means in english.
 
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The closer we are to February, the more I think we won’t see anything successor related in an upcoming presentation. Expecting something along the lines of the email I received a few days ago, titled „Here’s how 2024 is shaping up on Nintendo Switch!” where they showed bunch of unimpressive stuff, then added „and that’s not all” and showed another list of mediocrity.
Then somewhere during spring they will start hinting at new system with a special presentation coming after
 
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Judging by other comments on the thread it seems like people give it completely different connotations, for example to some "gimmick" might just be a disparaging term while to me it basically just means "unique feature".

(I liked the dual screens, between the DS, the DSi and 3DS lines of consoles I own 6 "ds" handhelds)

Edit: It's also possible that the meaning "gimmick" tends to have in japanese (I come across it surprisingly often) skewed my perception of what it actually means in english.
I agree with that definition. I really hope Nintendo uses dual screens again, one day…
 
Some people are drawn to Nintendo consoles because of unique and distinct modes of play their hardware makes possible

Some people are drawn to play Mario, or Pokémon, or Metroid, or another franchise that appeals to them personally; and select the hardware that enables that regardless of it's unique features

I think there's a tension between those facts that will always be there.
 
Gaming fandom law -

A new idea shall only be considered a gimmick if said new idea is implemented by Nintendo.

———

I remember when people who had Playstations thought the N64’s analogue stick was a gimmick - “That stupid little joystick” was genuinely a comment I heard more than once.
mainstream gamers™ (starting from the sega genesis days) really wanted to slander nintendo as much as they can and calling nintendo stuff useless was one of the ways to do it 😂
 
do you all believe Nintendo will skip the june Direct in place of a possibal Switch sucessor presentation, or they will do a Nintendo Direct and then later on the month, the presentation for Switch sucessor?
 
do you all believe Nintendo will skip the june Direct in place of a possibal Switch sucessor presentation, or they will do a Nintendo Direct and then later on the month, the presentation for Switch sucessor?
I'm pretty sure that there will be a separate video presentation for the Hardware with a presentation of launch games. I expect these games NOT to be shown in any Switch Direct that is aired before the hardware presentation video. But I also expect another Direct in the upcoming weeks/months that is all about Switch 1 games.

EDIT: I think it's unlikely that the hardware gets its first presentation as late as June. I think that Nintendo will have a Direct in June (or around summer games fest) with focus on Switch 2 games (and few Switch 1 games). I also expect this presentation to be the big 3rd Party blowout for Switch 2 games.
 
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The Switch itself is a gimmick. If anything, they're ought to improve that by including a better battery on handheld mode and allowing for a bigger margin of performance with better clocks on docked mode (that is likely to happen regardless though, but this is just an example). They don't need a new gimmick for the Switch 2 to be a nice console because it is a gimmick itself. It's both a portable device and powerful table console, especially if they put all the new tech we've been rumoring they've been working on that new console.

Outside of that though, they could do a huge spectrum of things: Cameras for AR/VR (as they've explored before), haptic feedback joy-cons (though you could say that's complicated with joy-con's size, but regardless). I think the Switch 2 will do just fine, with or without a new gimmick. Mind you - a lot of the sucessor consoles we see usually don't have a whole lot of gimmicks, just more powerful hardware allowing for better games.
I mean, you wouldn't say the Xbox 360 sold well because of the Kinect... right?
 
if Switch sucessor dont feature a gimmick at all, how Nintendo will diferenciate it next console for Switch?
Why would they have to? They have a solid concept that is unique and cool. Enhance and curate it. Iterate on that. No need to always try to introduce new wacky features.

In my opinion, gimmicks in gaming are features that don’t really enhance the gaming experience, just a quirky but somewhat cool way to play a few titles. Like the 3D mode in their 3DS. Personally, scrollable shoulder wheels would be the next awesome gaming enhancement they should come out with and make industry standard.
 
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if Switch sucessor dont feature a gimmick at all, how Nintendo will diferenciate it next console for Switch?
Same way Sony has differentiated their successor consoles from past gens, including PSP>Vita.

—————

Speaking of the Vita, Sony actually did a good job selling it as a successor to the PSP, without naming it the PSP2

Just some food for thought for a veeery hypothetical scenario where the Switch 2 isn’t called the 2
 
I have missed a lot the couple days/weeks in the topic. Uhm, yeah, so about that GDC chart: even with that 8%, they are acknowledging the Switch Successor, even by the fact it is anonymous. Would that mean a Switch 2 reveal is imminent?
 
this thread will never be hospitable to any ideas beyond a bigger, more powerful switch, as that is all that is grounded in the facts of the nvidia leaks. I'd encourage my fellow gimmick enjoyers to shift such talk to the switch 2 thread
 
this thread will never be hospitable to any ideas beyond a bigger, more powerful switch, as that is all that is grounded in the facts of the nvidia leaks. I'd encourage my fellow gimmick enjoyers to shift such talk to the switch 2 thread

Scrollwheel Shoulderbutton gimmick talk is always welcome!
 
I have missed a lot the couple days/weeks in the topic. Uhm, yeah, so about that GDC chart: even with that 8%, they are acknowledging the Switch Successor, even by the fact it is anonymous. Would that mean a Switch 2 reveal is imminent?
The survey shouldn’t be taken as indication of anything. It’s a survey.

It’s like a Presidential Election survey asking who do you think will win?
Just because someone answered yes, doesn’t mean they’ll go out and vote
 
The survey shouldn’t be taken as indication of anything. It’s a survey.

It’s like a Presidential Election survey asking who do you think will win?
Just because someone answered yes, doesn’t mean they’ll go out and vote

This is something I can more or less agree with in reference to the part of the survey that asks about the platform(s) that are considered more interesting as a developer, not so much with the one where the question is about the platform(s) they're currently working on (and what the 8% figure cited refers to).
 
do you all believe Nintendo will skip the june Direct in place of a possibal Switch sucessor presentation, or they will do a Nintendo Direct and then later on the month, the presentation for Switch sucessor?
If it is indeed a H2 launch (I’m still hoping for a June launch but think September is more likely the longer we don’t see any smoke) I think it’ll be something like this:

-Direct (Feb)
-Hardware Presentation (June)
-Direct (1 or 2 months after hardware launch in September)

The Feb direct will be a standard direct with ports galore.

Hardware presentation will show calendar year 2024 games (and maybe preview a small amount of 2025+ games)

Post-launch direct is what we’d consider a “standard direct” but has a slightly new format since there’ll be some games exclusive to new hardware.

If the console does launch H1, I think that the last direct will be in the traditional September slot.

February - June - September seems to have done Nintendo well.
 
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2- "Inflated" FLOPs in Ampere and Ada: in these two generations, each SM instead of 64 cores as in the past, has 128 CUDA cores, but only half of these cores are used for FP32 operations exclusively,
Actually, Turing is the non-standard one. They tried to make dedicated hardware for INT operations, which let the GPU reach max flops all the time, but they didn't find it used enough to be worth the silicon after trying it out and reverted to the standard with Ampere.

In depth explanation, by Thraktor:

 
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