StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

[Hermii]

I think lot of people is playing the low expectations here but I think this time if X PS5/XBSeries game doesn't come to Switch NG is a matter of politics between third party publisher and Nintendo.

It doesn't have to do with anything relate to HW.

I think it's just going to be on a case by case basis.

I could see a game that's really cpu heavy for example having technical issues on Drake. But of course politics also plays a huge role. Even if Nintendo released a 4090 console, they wouldn't have had third party support on par with Xbox and PS imo.

 

[NateDrake]

There are a few posts I read, yes. 4k+RT this and that. All I'm saying is, don't overhype yourselves. It'll only bite you in the backside later. I'd rather temper my expectations. Have to remember it's a portable first and foremost. There's only so much it can do, and I'll be content with what the "little" thing can do.

Being able to use RT or achieve 4K (via DLSS) doesn't mean one should set that as a bar of expectation for all releases. Just like no one should expect it match PS5/Series X levels of visual fidelity.

 

[LiC]

There are a few posts I read, yes. 4k+RT this and that. All I'm saying is, don't overhype yourselves. It'll only bite you in the backside later. I'd rather temper my expectations. Have to remember it's a portable first and foremost. There's only so much it can do, and I'll be content with what the "little" thing can do.

Is "4K and RT" the example of unrealistic expectations? Because the hardware will definitely be capable of both of those things, and there will be games that make effective use of them.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Do you have an example of a claim or expectation made in this thread that might turn out to be a disappointment?

I think most people are expecting a generational leap in performance (not exactly controversial when we're talking about a next generation console) with the belief that specialized hardware will allow it to punch above its weight (a possibility or probability that can be demonstrated in comparisons of consumer hardware out there today that have such accelerators). The discussion here is all pretty grounded.

Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

All RT cores combined probably cost like $2 per chip max so they could end up being a waste but the Switch 1 included rarely used like features like the IR camera and the touchscreen and only sometimes used features like HD Rumble that probably cost a couple bucks each unit too. I just assume...

famiboards.com

 

[TLZ]

Is "4K and RT" the example of unrealistic expectations? Because the hardware will definitely be capable of both of those things, and there will be games that make effective use of them.

Both at the same time? Maybe a couple less demanding games, but I definitely don't see it happening across the board. Possibly one or the other. Like Nate said above, I'm not setting 4K+RT as the expectation bar.

Tbh with you I don't care about RT much. Maybe I think it's blown out of proportion, or to use a better word, exaggerated. I'm currently playing Wonder and it looks absolutely sweet. I don't think RT would add much to such a well made game.

 

[LiC]

Both at the same time? Maybe a couple less demanding games, but I definitely don't see it happening across the board. Possibly one or the other. Like Nate said above, I'm not setting 4K+RT as the expectation bar.

Tbh with you I don't care about RT much. Maybe I think it's blown out of proportion, or to use a better word, exaggerated. I'm currently playing Wonder and it looks absolutely sweet. I don't think RT would add much to such a well made game.

I didn't say both, and I don't think people here are often saying to expect both at the same time? Although that can certainly be done depending on the RT effects. I'm still trying to understand what you think people are setting themselves up for disappointment with. If people were posting "I can't wait for every game to be 4K 60 fps with fully ray traced graphics," then yes, that would be unrealistic. But I don't see those posts.

 

[necrolipe]

I’m sorry, but if you’re building your game around RT for convenience and then have to end up baking the lighting in handheld mode, that doesn’t make a ton of sense. You’re just doing a lot of extra work for no reason. Just bake it from the beginning.

Who is throwing out tons of other effects from their PS5 version for RT, only to then also bake it in handheld mode.

You think you’re the reasoning master in this thread for a lot of reasons that is a bunch of opinions and not a proven point in any scale

I’ll ignore you from now on for being rude, but you should pay attention to the things you say to the people that are SPECULATING here Mr. Smart Man

 

[Deleted member 887]

Would it be possible to run current gen games?

Whatever games are coming to the NG are by definition “current gen.”

But if you mean “PS5/Xbox Series exclusives,” there is no one answer.

The GBA got Alone in the Dark. Series S had trouble with BG3. Exoprimal had numerous bugs on PS5 due to subtle architectural differences.

The power of the device is half the answer. The other half is how much money you’re willing to throw at it. More power, the less money it takes, and the fewer compromises you need to make. But no hard line.

The spec you laid out is probably closer to the other consoles this gen than the Switch was to the consoles last gen. But games are complicated beasts and this gen has another half decade in it still. There are ways to leverage the machines that play closer to NG strengths and others that are further away.

 

[ziggyrivers]

Sooo… is the reveal trailer back up?

 

[qwerp]

Sooo… is the reveal trailer back up?

Nope. I'm starting to think it will never be brought back up, like the Switch Lite trailer.

 

[Dakhil]

Sooo… is the reveal trailer back up?

No, the video's still private.

 

[darthdiablo]

Sooo… is the reveal trailer back up?

"No AnD iT'S sTiLl LiCeNsInG iSsUe. I'Ll PrEtEnD nOt To AcKnOwLeDgE iT'S sTiLl Up On Fb/TwItTeR"

 

[TLZ]

I didn't say both, and I don't think people here are often saying to expect both at the same time? Although that can certainly be done depending on the RT effects. I'm still trying to understand what you think people are setting themselves up for disappointment with. If people were posting "I can't wait for every game to be 4K 60 fps with fully ray traced graphics," then yes, that would be unrealistic. But I don't see those posts.

The 4k+RT expectation bar. People in the know, know not to set such a high bar for a low powered portable. I'm afraid that the ones who aren't tech savvy are reading 4k DLSS and RT cores are setting that expectation bar for and overhyping themselves, because they don't really understand all the intricacies and ways of these techs. So to these people, I'm only asking to temper it, for their sake.

 

[Ojoloco]

I've been informed by my sources several times before and after Gamescom that RT will be a common thing on Switch NG

They can choice to not use in the portable mode to avoid performance issues on certain titles? YES
But the consensus is: Works well, we'll use. (applies to both DLSS and RR too)

Wow this sounds cool

 

[darthdiablo]

The 4k+RT expectation bar. People in the know, know not to set such a high bar for a low powered portable. I'm afraid that the ones who aren't tech savvy are reading 4k DLSS and RT cores are setting that expectation bar for and overhyping themselves, because they don't really understand all the intricacies and ways of these techs. So to these people, I'm only asking to temper it, for their sake.

Yes, it's a concern but I don't think people here are generally expecting 4k+Rt at same time.

If we're talking about average person outside this thread, I doubt they know what RT means.

 

[korok]

People being so mad at me that they’re buying an obviously very false report (who is turning off RT in handheld mode only) is weird.

How dare people to believe necrolipe's reports instead of the things you make up?

 

[Deleted member 887]

What is the developer logic to go

This post illustrates a deep lack of understanding. Which is fine. It also demonstrates this poster’s hostility which means you can’t change their mind about the things they don’t understand.

That almost every game on PC with RT effects does this already, and can live switch RT, and that this change would be free from a dev perspective - and that RT effects fall of a visual cliff as resolution goes down and on handheld mode moving to a probe or baked solution might provide a better looking image on a handheld 1080p screen is not something you even need to bother to explain.

This person doesn’t want to engage in honest discussion, which is made worse by his intellectual inability to do it anyway. Block them and move on.

 

[karmitt]

There are a few posts I read, yes. 4k+RT this and that. All I'm saying is, don't overhype yourselves. It'll only bite you in the backside later. I'd rather temper my expectations. Have to remember it's a portable first and foremost. There's only so much it can do, and I'll be content with what the "little" thing can do.

Expectations in this thread continue to be pretty reasonable, often leaning on pessimistic.

I’ve seen 4K w/ RT posts, I even posted one myself, but it notably has the caveat of saying that the game has Switch (1) as the lead platform - Metroid Prime 4. I really don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that can happen.

 

[Lancelot]

4K/RT is very possible if we're still talking about using it for DLSS as the baseline. Sure, it might not be a native 4K image (not even a PS5 Pro will do that) but it should look much cleaner than anything the Switch was capable of rendering without an issue, and that's not including leveraging of RR and many other little things that should also make it standard enough.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

This post illustrates a deep lack of understanding. Which is fine. It also demonstrates this poster’s hostility which means you can’t change their mind about the things they don’t understand.

That almost every game on PC with RT effects does this already, and can live switch RT, and that this change would be free from a dev perspective - and that RT effects fall of a visual cliff as resolution goes down and on handheld mode moving to a probe or baked solution might provide a better looking image on a handheld 1080p screen is not something you even need to bother to explain.

This person doesn’t want to engage in honest discussion, which is made worse by his intellectual inability to do it anyway. Block them and move on.

Except this situation isn't a situation where a dev can just give a RT On/Off function and people can try it out if they want to.

If you have mandatory RT in docked mode, you're sacrificing a ton of visual effects as you're working on mobile hardware. The marginal benefit of RT is low relative to many other effects at the expected power level of the Switch 2. The only benefit to making it mandatory would be for convenience.

But then Necro describes a situation that sounds like mandatory or optional RT in docked mode and then no RT in portable mode, which makes no sense. If it's just an option in docked... You can leave it as an option in handheld mode. If it's mandatory in docked mode, you're now making an option you chose only for convenience (sacrificing tons of visual effects for) mandatory in one mode only to do all the work you wanted to avoid in the first place in handheld mode.

RT just isn't valuable to consumers at this low level of power, it would be for developer convenience so it makes no sense for it only be in one mode.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

This post illustrates a deep lack of understanding. Which is fine. It also demonstrates this poster’s hostility which means you can’t change their mind about the things they don’t understand.

That almost every game on PC with RT effects does this already, and can live switch RT, and that this change would be free from a dev perspective - and that RT effects fall of a visual cliff as resolution goes down and on handheld mode moving to a probe or baked solution might provide a better looking image on a handheld 1080p screen is not something you even need to bother to explain.

This person doesn’t want to engage in honest discussion, which is made worse by his intellectual inability to do it anyway. Block them and move on.

Know what? I’ll do that. I think it’s been going on long enough, nothing fruitful has been achieved now.

 

[Mirev]

Many people should just think that Nintendo games will look phenomenal. This is the most important thing

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

I mean I expect them to look more like how PS4/XB1 games looked. Not the realism aspect but the other aspects of it.

 

[Lancelot]

I mean I expect them to look more like how PS4/XB1 games looked. Not the realism aspect but the other aspects of it.

PS4/XB1 asset density is about the most people can expect from a Nintendo project that didn't have 300+ devs and a $100+ million budget pumped into it, so you're right in there. If you want even better, there'll absolutely be tradeoff in the cadency of their releases and how sparse they'll be through the course of the years (not counting ports, remakes or any other lineup filler).

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Again, this has just been an incredibly aggravating conversation where I say "it's not going to be worth it to do RT in almost all Switch 2 games" and the response is "well, it's literally possible to do ray-tracing at the expected power level."

Yeah, it is literally possible, but there's dozens of lower hanging fruit you would want to grab first when you're at this level of power. It would solely be for convenience and not many games will fall into the range where they can afford to sacrifice so much for convenience. Many games like Hat in Time 2 I guess?

 

[ILikeFeet]

Except this situation isn't a situation where a dev can just give a RT On/Off function and people can try it out if they want to.

If you have mandatory RT in docked mode, you're sacrificing a ton of visual effects as you're working on mobile hardware. The marginal benefit of RT is low relative to many other effects at the expected power level of the Switch 2. The only benefit to making it mandatory would be for convenience.

But then Necro describes a situation that sounds like mandatory or optional RT in docked mode and then no RT in portable mode, which makes no sense. If it's just an option in docked... You can leave it as an option in handheld mode. If it's mandatory in docked mode, you're now making an option you chose only for convenience (sacrificing tons of visual effects for) mandatory in one mode only to do all the work you wanted to avoid in the first place in handheld mode.

RT just isn't valuable to consumers at this low level of power, it would be for developer convenience so it makes no sense for it only be in one mode.

RT can always be turned off. even in mandatory ones, because they're hybrid RT/Raster games. it just means there is no fall back like baked lighting/shadows. and this is NOT what Necro is saying. fucking read the post bruh

here's an example I posted a week ago or some shit

Again, this has just been an incredibly aggravating conversation where I say "it's not going to be worth it to do RT in almost all Switch 2 games" and the response is "well, it's literally possible to do ray-tracing at the expected power level."

Yeah, it is literally possible, but there's dozens of lower hanging fruit you would want to grab first when you're at this level of power. It would solely be for convenience and not many games will fall into the range where they can afford to sacrifice so much for convenience. Many games like Hat in Time 2 I guess?

alright, show me these Switch 2 games then.

if a game needs to have RT turned off, the developers will accommodate. just like they had to accommodate the Switch. publisher mandates supersede this issue

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

PS4/XB1 asset density is about the most people can expect from a Nintendo project that didn't have 300+ devs and a $100+ million budget pumped into it, so you're right in there. If you want even better, there'll absolutely be tradeoff in the cadency of their releases and how sparse they'll be through the course of the years (not counting ports, remakes or any other lineup filler).

With a nifty tool like Mesh Shaders being used I think it can allow to fit a bit more with easier LOD management there.

Though, I’d leave that to someone like @brainchild who can better explain their experiences with something like Mesh Shaders/Nanite or what have you, in a general development sense.

 

[Raccoon]

With a nifty tool like Mesh Shaders being used I think it can allow to fit a bit more with easier LOD management there.

Though, I’d leave that to someone like @brainchild who can better explain their experiences with something like Mesh Shaders/Nanite or what have you, in a general development sense.

just fyi brainchild is done with the site because the community (edit: broadly speaking) hates ai

 

[Chauzu]

My expectation is for Nintendo games to continue to look amazing, even more so than they currently do. Feels like safe assumption…?

 

[TomNookYankees]

I've been informed by my sources several times before and after Gamescom that RT will be a common thing on Switch NG

They can choice to not use in the portable mode to avoid performance issues on certain titles? YES
But the consensus is: Works well, we'll use. (applies to both DLSS and RR too)

This might be what pushes me over to play more docked than portable mode. For reference i almost always play my switch in portable mode.

 

[eye0h]

My expectation is for Nintendo games to continue to look amazing, even more so than they currently do. Feels like safe assumption…?

Be careful, some people don't like ANY assumptions here. After all, Nintendo amiright?

 

[karmitt]

This might be what pushes me over to play more docked than portable mode. For reference i almost always play my switch in portable mode.

I suspect if RT is used really meaningfully in a game it’s not something that’ll be turned off in portable. I’m not sure how realistic that scenario is?

I can agree tho, even if it’s not a fundamental feature to a game, it’ll pull me to 50/50 split. Nothing put me off more on playing docked mode than handheld feeling like a much better image. This is something that could help even the playing field.

 

[Tof]

Know what? I’ll do that. I think it’s been going on long enough, nothing fruitful has been achieved now.

Not to discredit your efforts to engage in debate so far but I think people are reading into hostility that isn’t there and responding in kind. I understand that this person has been contrarian to many of the takes in this forum (especially recently), I have been reading this thread closely and I don’t think any of his post/replies were intended to come off as rude or intellectually dishonest. I think tone being absent in text means that when you’re engaged in a back and forth with someone, over time you perceive their words with more cynical lens.

That being said there is a level of close-mindedness I have seen here and very minor dismissals of opinion between both parties as part of discussion here is exploring edge cases in waht may or may not happen regarding NG even if said opinion is widely unpopular. And if it founded on lack of understanding then we should patiently explain and re-explain where necessary. Honestly if not for these questions or takes which get answered or refuted a lot of us might not have the level of understanding regarding the tech in NG as we do.

In one of my very few posts I did reference this persons consistent contrarian approach to hype etc. and I found it strange but I always look forward to seeing what they might think of new information because they might come to a totally different conclusion than me and that’s what sparks engaging discussion even if one thinks the other is completely wrong and if they are you can educate them and anyone else who is reading along (like me).

Not saying you shouldn’t block someone if debates start to become tiresome/get in the way of enjoyment on this thread and it can be a effective way to avoid contention or confrontational or ill-mannered posting but I thought I’d offer my two cents here

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

just fyi brainchild is done with the site because the community (edit: broadly speaking) hates ai

Huh, what happened? If this community (also broadly speaking) hates AI, then I guess they won't be buying Switch 2 because it will have AI Super Sampling.

 

[Skittzo]

Huh, what happened? If this community (also broadly speaking) hates AI, then I guess they won't be buying Switch 2 because it will have AI Super Sampling.

Contrary to Raccoon's opinion I don't think the community is against AI, just specifically generative AI art that is trained on artists' work without permission. AKA most AI art.

 

[carbvan]

Huh, what happened? If this community (also broadly speaking) hates AI, then I guess they won't be buying Switch 2 because it will have AI Super Sampling.

I think most people here are smart enough to know the difference between the AI that steals content off the internet and stitches it together, and the AI used in DLSS which just upscales stuff. If you're upset at all AI tech and not just the stuff that's threatening people, you gotta do some more research. (This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, "you" here is just pointing at the possible person who does believe that silly stuff).

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

Ah, so it was related to generative AI. That does make sense. I thought it was just people being against "anything AI" for some reason.

 

[eye0h]

.

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

.

You're right. As I said, I just thought it was people being against anything AI. I didn't knew the context and was a bit pissed that Brainchild would have been pushed off the forum due to that.

As you said, content stealing to feed AI models is indeed a big issue and disruptive even to art fields. It's something that governments will need to step in and create protections against it. But I do fear it's already too late. A lot of companies already created and iterated their models upon stolen assets.

Anyway, this is outside of the scope of this thread, so I will drop it. And perhaps my original comment was uncalled for, so I apologize to everyone.

 

[Raploz]

Tbh what I'm most excited about regarding the hardware is the free anti-aliasing DLSS provides. Most 1st-party Nintendo games don't use any kind of anti-aliasing. I guess they got traumatized after the Nintendo 64 forced vaseline anti-aliasing filter.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

just fyi brainchild is done with the site because the community (edit: broadly speaking) hates ai

ah…

Guess they aren’t going to like the next switch

 

[Individualised]

Tbh what I'm most excited about regarding the hardware is the free anti-aliasing DLSS provides. Most 1st-party Nintendo games don't use any kind of anti-aliasing. I guess they got traumatized after the Nintendo 64 forced vaseline anti-aliasing filter.

The GameCube and Wii also had the same issue, but due to the higher-resolution the anti-aliasing wasn't as big of a deal. Ruined many games on the N64 unfortunately. It wasn't actually forced but at the time most developers thought it was better to leave it on (it helped with CRT flicker). A few games like Doom 64 didn't enable it.

 

[mjayer]

Tbh what I'm most excited about regarding the hardware is the free anti-aliasing DLSS provides. Most 1st-party Nintendo games don't use any kind of anti-aliasing. I guess they got traumatized after the Nintendo 64 forced vaseline anti-aliasing filter.

I feel basically the same way. Nintendo’s games are art, but those jaggies never belonged. I think this will be the first generation with no jaggies and… feels good man.

 

[Shareholder Chad]

I love AI. I've played with so many versions of it besides GPT. Character AI is extremely fun (Probably dangerous for non-social types tho honestly lol). I've even allowed one to give me daytrading advice. (Spoiler: It won me money).

Right now its limited but within 10 years I promise we will be in a completely different world. Custom scripting in seconds, AI cooking, AI powered pilots and robots, AI powered co-op and online in video games allowing accessibility and custom difficulties, Re-generative environments will be off the charts, Modding = off the charts. Video game creation will likely be at consumers fingertips. Combined with wearable VR/AR, and we can create and live in the world we choose.

Not to say there won't be drawbacks like jobs disappearing, Anti-social behavior skyrocketing (Shut in's might be ahead of the curve lol), and outside shopping/dining further being threatened.

I personally am going all in on learning the technology and keeping up with it. I think the trick is not letting it turn you anti-social. We as humans need real human interaction.

 

[ReyVGM]

as we all know nintendo loves throwing money down the fucking toilet

Nintendo gonna Nintendo!

 

[Raccoon]

who can say why Nintendo Nintendoes what they Nintendo

 

[The Competition]

What Switch 1 games turned down or off visual features other than framerate and resolution btw, were there any?

Warframe

 

[Tangerine_Cookie]

ah…

Guess they aren’t going to like the next switch

Generative AI. You know, the one trained on stolen art and writing. DLSS is fine, since those are trained basically on the game itself.

 

[Cybergatuno]

I suspect if RT is used really meaningfully in a game it’s not something that’ll be turned off in portable. I’m not sure how realistic that scenario is?

I can agree tho, even if it’s not a fundamental feature to a game, it’ll pull me to 50/50 split. Nothing put me off more on playing docked mode than handheld feeling like a much better image. This is something that could help even the playing field.

I don't think anyone would be OK with a huge graphical difference between modes.
If a dev has to develop baked lighting for handheld, it'll probably benefit docked as well with a sizable performance improvement over RT.
I'd take those extra frames instead.

Otherwise, I'm not expecting fully-ray-traced open-worlds full of reflections and light sources like Cyberpunk.
Those games run well on a GPU that could fry an egg, sustained by a CPU that could fry another egg.

But in environment-constrained games built from the ground up with RT, like Luigi's Mansion 4 will probably be, I expect it blow our minds, in any mode.

This RT talk always reminds me of Little Nightmare's final boss. That's a perfect scenario for full ray-tracing on NX2.

 

[chocolate_supra]

Sir, you clearly don’t understand how big these fucking ducks are. They eat horses, don’t they?

A bit late catching up, but this might by my favorite sentence(s) in a long time