The 64DD was a quarter century ago. People were mostly on dialup at best.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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The 64DD never really got a fair chance, like it was a token release really to save face for Mr. Yamauchi I think.
The downloading games idea was interesting. I would have liked to have seen Nintendo maybe have tried that in the US, go to a Blockbuster Video (which was everywhere) or 7-11 and just download a game to a blank drive or disk or cartridge.
The thing that people don't understand today I don't think is the Famicom Disk System was not supposed to be an "add-on" ... Nintendo was like fully checked out on cartridges. Supply shortages and high costs were killing them. They wanted the Disk System to basically be the future of the entire NES. So Zelda was only a Disk title. What ended up happening though is cartridge costs starting to finally resolves and sink as the 80s went along and cart storage size got larger. But they were actively trying to kill carts on the Famicom and probably would've preferred the digital kiosk concept even as far as back then.
No more game shortages, no more high cart prices, the idea was you'd just go to a store vending machine and just download your game to a floppy and voila.
If cartridge prices didn't drop, it's pretty interesting to think about how different Nintendo's future is. I imagine in that case, the Super Famicom (SNES) is disk only.
EdFiftyNine
Switch 2 hype recharged
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Nate and MVG raised an interesting point about the future and what Nintendo would happen if Xbox, PlayStation, and third parties start to stop physicals.
I think Nintendo have already shown what it would do if the future looks bleak in terms of physical (outside of Japan). Release digitally and have a smaller physical run a few months later. Seems to have worked well with Pikmin and Metroid. If anything, Metroid showed them that there’s a bigger desire than expected for physical (or was that just because it was Metroid lol).
I think the big hitters like 3D Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda would still launch same day as digital though - even if shops didn’t want to continue carrying physical.
I think in the worst case scenario, the future for physical is boutique physical releases through Limited Run and the likes. Maybe even some bigger publishers could print on demand? More and more users are undoubtedly moving towards digital but there’s still enough people that care about physical that it can hopefully continue in some way shape or form. The days of mass producing physical copies of every game is definitely coming to an end, though.
I think Nintendo have already shown what it would do if the future looks bleak in terms of physical (outside of Japan). Release digitally and have a smaller physical run a few months later. Seems to have worked well with Pikmin and Metroid. If anything, Metroid showed them that there’s a bigger desire than expected for physical (or was that just because it was Metroid lol).
I think the big hitters like 3D Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda would still launch same day as digital though - even if shops didn’t want to continue carrying physical.
I think in the worst case scenario, the future for physical is boutique physical releases through Limited Run and the likes. Maybe even some bigger publishers could print on demand? More and more users are undoubtedly moving towards digital but there’s still enough people that care about physical that it can hopefully continue in some way shape or form. The days of mass producing physical copies of every game is definitely coming to an end, though.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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I appreciate what you're getting at, but if your only example is from the computer wild west of the early 80s, I'm not sure it holds water.I mean even in the 80s, Nintendo allowed people to check stock quotes on the Family Computer, not "Famitoy". Nintendo only had to do that R.O.B. toy shit in the US to get retailers to stock the machine because Atari had fucked up that badly, but that was really just a ploy by them to get retailers to bite on the system.
Here is the Famicom with a modem that would let you check stock quotes, do horse betting (great for children, right?), check weather, etc. even before the internet as we know it existed:
Here is the Family Basic add-on for the Famicom which added a keyboard and allowed for BASIC programming on the system.
In the late 80s/early 90s, believe it or not there was a lot of industry people and even mainstream press saying that Nintendo was poised to become the no.1 computer company in the world because they were going to leverage the NES/Famicom into computing ... and they actually were trying that in Japan. Nintendo had more NES systems in homes than PCs at that point.
In a parallel world where Windows PCs don't take off and Nintendo nailed the execution of a computer better ... who knows. Maybe you are sitting on a Nintendo computer doing your taxes, Nintendo was definitely dipping their toes and experimenting with that.
They had a lot of ideas in the 80s/90s that were way ahead of their time.
Gotdatmoneyy
Boo
You're not listening. Why would a retailer carry these products at all when the manufacturer has made them significantly more difficult to move? Nintendo isn't subsidizing retailers. They are paying the costs necessary to enjoy the benefits of retail space. You act like they are getting fleeced. The second hardware manufacturers don't have to play ball with retailers they wont. But until then this is a relationship that is suppose to benefit both parties. Once it stops doing that one party is going to tell the other to fuck off if they try to strong arm them with 0 leverage.
Please note, the US is not the only place on planet earth. You don't make decisions like this just based off of 1 market.
Honest idea here - DVDs and Bluray movies are mostly only really viable at kiosks like Redbox to support customers who don't have home internet service for any of a variety of reasons. Extend the same idea to Switch 2 games, but with an install requirement. You live in the boonies and are stuck with only a cell phone that has limited service either in speed or data caps. You go to the grocery store and use a kiosk to rent the game and install it to your switch, and return it two days later. You get to try it for $6 or whatever, and if you like it well enough, then you can buy it later online through your cell phone, or through your phone as a hotspot for your Switch 2.
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You can already get games at redbox, and gamefly is a service that has existed for years which is exclusively a game rental by mail servive. I think your digital only argument has lost the plot.
ohlawd
bruh
Hey when we transition to mostly digital I hope companies continue with Collector's Editions of games but without the game - some have been doing this already. I want my fancy box with random stuff in it.
It's been painful for my wallet because I usually keep those Editions sealed so I end up double dipping on a digital copy
to give an example, here's a recent game Fate Samurai Remnant that released late September.
Koei-Tecmo sells two versions of the premium box - one with the game and one without. So what I would do is buy the version without the game then I can buy a digital copy on Switch or something. I play the game. I get my random shit. Happy me.
It's been painful for my wallet because I usually keep those Editions sealed so I end up double dipping on a digital copy
to give an example, here's a recent game Fate Samurai Remnant that released late September.
Koei-Tecmo sells two versions of the premium box - one with the game and one without. So what I would do is buy the version without the game then I can buy a digital copy on Switch or something. I play the game. I get my random shit. Happy me.
I think Switch 3 will be digital only alongside Playstation 6 and XBox Whatever. Enjoy physical while you can.
Nintendo does not care about "tradition" anywhere near as much as people think, Nintendo does whatever makes whatever business sense they see at any point. Nothing more, nothing less.
Nintendo does not care about "tradition" anywhere near as much as people think, Nintendo does whatever makes whatever business sense they see at any point. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm saying the benefits of retail spaces are becoming overrated quickly. Next year, will you be able to got to best buy and get your movies on DVD? How about Blockbuster or Hollywood Video?
I live in the US. I don't have the context to use other places as examples. My understanding is that game consoles are only for rich people in a lot of places.
Joy-Boy
Bob-omb
I feel like that's what it's going to be, exactly like movies. Boutique releases in a "Criterion Collection" kind of way where Limted Run and companies like it will probably get bigger and better titles to license.
Disc Drives will be an optional purchase and not included out of the box starting with next gen, but if consumers really want physical, they can get it, but will have to be willing to go out of their way to do so.
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Considering Sony themselves is still framing this new revised model as a PS5 slim and a PS5 slim digital, I'm not really sure how much I buy into the narrative that PS6 will be digital only. After all the rumors that the slim was the "beginning of the end", Sony's marketing for the Slim really doesn't give off that vibe at all. Microsoft going digital only is a guarantee since they have Gamepass.
I personally think Switch 2 is transitional end for Nintendo and physical media - as in I fully argue that the Switch 3 won't have it's own physical media and the Switch 2 will push away from physical media. Even just having a digital only version is a strong push away - same as Sony is doing and Microsoft is soon to be doing. I argue that Switch 2 might not have physical media for anything but Switch 1 backwards compatibility. I also make outlandish arguments in reaction to other outlandish arguments. Usually in the form of "they would do this" as opposed to "they could do this".
I honestly don't know if I can rent Switch games via redbox. I've never looked.
ziggyrivers
thunder
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TBH, a digital only SKU to future proof the console isn’t that bad of an idea. Especially if they simplify the manufacturing process like Sony did with the PS5.
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If this were an intentional choice of gif, I cannot overstate how thrilled it makes me to see a legendary and too underrated Disney film that was such a formative part of my childhood referenced in any part of the internet or real world.To be fair, something did happen. Whether or not it actually means anything though is a whole different story altogether.
Seconded; honestly it always seemed like the smarter choice too. How many times have a collectors edition been left collecting dust because it was more popular on one console than another? Who is gonna buy the CE, buy the game they want on the correct platform, and sell the other copy? It's so silly.Hey when we transition to mostly digital I hope companies continue with Collector's Editions of games but without the game - some have been doing this already. I want my fancy box with random stuff in it.
It's been painful for my wallet because I usually keep those Editions sealed so I end up double dipping on a digital copy
to give an example, here's a recent game Fate Samurai Remnant that released late September.
Koei-Tecmo sells two versions of the premium box - one with the game and one without. So what I would do is buy the version without the game then I can buy a digital copy on Switch or something. I play the game. I get my random shit. Happy me.
Collector's editions should continue regardless of the death of physical media, but God I hope Nintendo has the foresight to ensure it's only through their official channels that can reduce scalping by having a dedicated Nintendo Account or something
Gotdatmoneyy
Boo
No one is arguing that physical isn't going to die in its current form. So what is your real point? We aren't there yet. It's obvious we aren't there yet. It's already been stated the 70% of full releases from Nintendo move on physical media. Even if in the next 8 years it flips and only 30% of software is moved physically what organization is going to let double digital revenue slip away?
This is not difficult to understand. When the Switch 3 comes out we can revisit this discussion. But if even MS who barely has a retail presense globally still has physical media (we know the new Series X models wont have disc drives but we'll see how it all plays out), why would Nintendo, the most physical dominant player, even entertain this?
When you're talking about killing physical media, saying "I live in the US" is not a good enough excuse for pushing a change that has a very real global impact. There are very healthy physical media markets globally and operatimg under the assumptions that because the US is digital heavy that pushes through the rest of the globe is not an argument.
MrEevee98
Founder of nintenleaks
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And if the Switch 2 is the good times we have had during these years
Danny
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That's why you go the route that you release a digital only version together with a version that plays physical games. That way you both cater to those who hate digital games but you also make the consumers more accustomed to buying only digital games, which makes it easier to eventually transition the consumer base to the all digital future.
Honestly, I think the collectors edition becomes more of an art and toys thing than a game thing.
As far as killing scalping, I think that Valve has done a bang up job of it. I don't know how that works yet for Nintendo, but I think it eventually does. Could be as easy as reserving some percentage of consoles for their own direct to consumer distribution and limiting those to one per customer per year with an account that has made at least $100 in digital purchases in the past.
Goodtwin
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Physical games have been selling less and less every year and now we are seeing retailers beginning to phase out carrying games. A retailer like GameStop could potentially see a short term shot in the arm if retailers like Best Buy and WalMart were to stop selling games. There are still a lot of games sold physically every year, but not enough that it makes sense for so many retailers to stock shelves with them. However, if we are to funnel all those physical sales through smaller games stores like GameStop, all of a sudden you have plenty of volume to sustain those retailers.
This is the last generation for physical games. I know many people hate it and it hurts their soul, but its the way things are going and publishers love it. Personally, once games started releasing requiring massive day one patches, that was the beginning of the end for maintaining the value of physical. Who cares if you own the disk or cart for a given game if it requires a massive patch that is no longer supported on the servers? Its not the same as back in the PS2/GC and older era when games shipped in a complete state. Owning those games physical means owning the game in its entirely, that is now how things are today even if you are buying games physically.
This is the last generation for physical games. I know many people hate it and it hurts their soul, but its the way things are going and publishers love it. Personally, once games started releasing requiring massive day one patches, that was the beginning of the end for maintaining the value of physical. Who cares if you own the disk or cart for a given game if it requires a massive patch that is no longer supported on the servers? Its not the same as back in the PS2/GC and older era when games shipped in a complete state. Owning those games physical means owning the game in its entirely, that is now how things are today even if you are buying games physically.
Computing could be going to go to some crazy places by the time Switch 3 is a thing.
Like AI routines that are so good they can take a 480p image and actually make it look like 4K or 8K to the point where most people can't tell, maybe even things like lighting and reflections done by an Nvidia AI algorithm, textures that are low quality which the AI then makes look much more realistic, etc. etc.
DLSS, frame generation, ray reconstruction is just the beginning I think.
Like AI routines that are so good they can take a 480p image and actually make it look like 4K or 8K to the point where most people can't tell, maybe even things like lighting and reflections done by an Nvidia AI algorithm, textures that are low quality which the AI then makes look much more realistic, etc. etc.
DLSS, frame generation, ray reconstruction is just the beginning I think.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Nintendo needs to have a digital Switch 2. They’ll get to see how it sells, how their physical to digital ratio changes.
Given how things are going, rasterization of 3D could change entirely.
Pretty much yeah what I think. If you can ever get to a point where an AI can just be given a photo or some reference images and create 3D environments through an algorithm ... look out. Also things like being able to create photo-real looking people easily ... it's kind of scary and interesting to think about.
Your phone may just be able to produce photo-realistic 3D environments driven by AI algorithms rather than traditional 3D rendering.
ReyVGM
Game Endings Master
It's not about saving space, it's about gradually moving towards a digital-only ecosystem.
Companies make a shit ton of money off digital sales because they pretty much pocket all the earnings since they don't have to speed money on carts/boxes and don't have to give retailers a cut of the profits.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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provided without context
nintendoeverything.com
Nintendo shows off the Tokotoko Mario toy from Super Nintendo World, comes in two versions
When Super Nintendo World opens in Japan, visitors will be able to stop by the 1-Up Factory. The area will house all sorts of merchandise, including some exclusive items. One of these products is the Tokotoko Mario toy. We heard about this a bit during the Super Nintendo World Direct, but we now...
nintendoeverything.com
I don't think that's the way about it. I think though that the math and shader models and pipelines could, extremely speculatively, change to an entirely different model. You still need models and textures though.
Another thing that could change would be the way that models and textures are generated could entirely change. Think of using something like deepfake to generate textures and models and some sort of generative AI to take let's say extremely detailed visual scans of an actor in their underwear to generate a 3D model and use detailed visual scans of clothing to create outfits for the actor.
Right now a lot of those things are done, but there's a bunch of things require a lot of expensive work by digital artists in the middle. Eventually this sort of thing could reduce the number of artists required to generate the models and textures.
Shoulder
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It has been maybe 25-30 years since I last saw The Great Mouse Detective, but recall having fond memories of it. I'd be surprised if it weren't on Disney+, so if it is on there, I'll have to check it out again.
And yes, the Gif was intentional. We need our little furry detective to solve the case of when Nintendo will announce the Switch 2!
And as I have addressed before, Nintendo would need to change their business practice if they want to do that. The other major publishers regularly have big sales on their digital titles to encourage sales once the initial explosion of sales have happened. Nintendo virtually never do this, but physical remains a good way to get bargains.
They're taking a risk on overall sales if they remove the physical option without discounts for games over time.
check out dekudeals.com. Nintendo only keeps the prices at MSRP for their own titles.
Yeah, Nintendo titles are what most of us Switch buyers care about. If they're demanding $70 every time from me by forcing me to go digital, they can deal with me just buying fewer of their games.
Nintendo has always kept the prices of their own titles at MSRP wherever they can, and have always fought
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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Doesn't have to stop there.
We could have AI machines that creates games on the fly, tailored to my mood at the time.
"Today I want to play a rouge-like that involves forcing Fami members to walk across pits full of Lego pieces"
Nintendo Switch AI-100 (TM): "I already generated an entire game while you were talking. Press Start and enjoy!"
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Once everything goes digital it’ll be sad.
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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I'll provide context: Two SKUs confirmed!provided without context
Nintendo shows off the Tokotoko Mario toy from Super Nintendo World, comes in two versions
When Super Nintendo World opens in Japan, visitors will be able to stop by the 1-Up Factory. The area will house all sorts of merchandise, including some exclusive items. One of these products is the Tokotoko Mario toy. We heard about this a bit during the Super Nintendo World Direct, but we now...
lemonfresh
#Team2024
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why is everyone fighting today
Ever read Rapture of the Nerds by Stross and Doctorow? There's a virtualized reality for uploaded people where TV is the best thing ever because it simulates you 1000 times a second with different things on TV, figures out what you like best, and then discards deltas of you that didn't like things as much.
Because it's an internet forum and some of us (me!) enjoy responding to ridiculous arguments with ridiculous arguments.
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I think physical doomers are a bit premature. The next Xbox is the only console that is likely to be digital only, and that's largely because gamepass really changes the equation. Sony in 2023 literally just introduced a new physical PS along with a new digital PS that can optionally add physical back in. That really doesn't scream in 5-8 years "here is ps6 it's digital only not even an option for physical".
The market will continue to change, there will be more games like Alan Wake 2 that go "digital only". I believe both Sony and Nintendo will continue to offer a physical options until it becomes untenable to do so. By then odds are it won't be "physical vs digital" question, but everything will likely be cloud based and our entire concept of hardware generations will change.
Ultimately this discussion is wildly veering off topic on a discussion about Switch 2 and it's hardware. With Switch 2 the question is will it at launch have a digital only sku, and how will bc be handled. Anyone seriously entertaining the idea that Nintendo of all companies will be the first to take the digital only plunge is more off base then people who cry Nintendo is doomed all the time.
The market will continue to change, there will be more games like Alan Wake 2 that go "digital only". I believe both Sony and Nintendo will continue to offer a physical options until it becomes untenable to do so. By then odds are it won't be "physical vs digital" question, but everything will likely be cloud based and our entire concept of hardware generations will change.
Ultimately this discussion is wildly veering off topic on a discussion about Switch 2 and it's hardware. With Switch 2 the question is will it at launch have a digital only sku, and how will bc be handled. Anyone seriously entertaining the idea that Nintendo of all companies will be the first to take the digital only plunge is more off base then people who cry Nintendo is doomed all the time.
Nintendo literally does that with eShop vouchers. Just because you don't like it (perhaps) or view it as not equivalent to what other shops doesn't mean Nintendo doesn't do it. They have sales on games on the eShop as well, maybe not as often as other storefronts, but where in stone is it written that you have to have X number of sales per year?
They wouldn't have to change much of anything if they went digital only.
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Oh it is on Disney+; typically I'll rewatch it every couple of years when it coincides with me getting a cold late October/early November because I truly believe in it's
No doubt him and his loyal companion David Q. Dawson will also be able to assist in solving whenever the hell Switch 2 is supposed to come out haha
hope hard enough, that tax filing dating sim can come to the switch
Ubisoft already outlined collector's editions as to why physical will stick around. so there's thatHey when we transition to mostly digital I hope companies continue with Collector's Editions of games but without the game - some have been doing this already. I want my fancy box with random stuff in it.
It's been painful for my wallet because I usually keep those Editions sealed so I end up double dipping on a digital copy
to give an example, here's a recent game Fate Samurai Remnant that released late September.
Koei-Tecmo sells two versions of the premium box - one with the game and one without. So what I would do is buy the version without the game then I can buy a digital copy on Switch or something. I play the game. I get my random shit. Happy me.
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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No I haven't. Yeah, I've had weird ideas brewing in my head, that I'm kind of scared to talk or think about.
Imagine something (non-invasive) that hooks up to your head to detect brainwaves (or even something simpler like monitoring your heartbeats). A generative horror movie that tests out what makes you tick (fear) and plays up to your fears. Does so in a non-repetitive, unexpected ways.
Similar concept could be applied for monitoring dopamine levels while playing "generated-gameplay-on-fly", monitoring what you find most fun.
Have to admit I hadn't thought about simulating 1000 copies of myself, interesting concept. As I said it sounds like something right up my alley (not as in actually experiencing that, lol, I mean reading that book).
And on another note, I realize this is the hardware thread, whoops. Gonna stop adding to this thread of discussion.
I think some kind of AI routine for ray tracing reflections + lighting could be the next thing ... like instead of high resource costly real time lighting + reflections an AI algorithm creates basically something like baked lighting effects and reflections which would be massively time consuming but it's just basically "cheating" the look to create something that looks very similar without it crippling the GPU.
I'm also happy to make the streaming game vs downloaded game argument, but I'm willing to argue it both ways.
The big issues are:
1. Availability of ubiquitous high speed low latency internet. This is a big issue.
2. Cost of compute. If Nintendo expect to have 50M simultaneous people playing Breath of the Wild 5 at launch (because they've reduced the Switch 4 to an almost compute free unit that just streams audio and video down and inputs up through the zero-latency wireless subspace sub-ethernet) they have to have compute for 50M people to play at the same time.
Everything else comes down to business model.
TLZ
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And one that's breaking records at that. So why wouldn't they want to replicate the same success?
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Collectors editions with only digital codes still sell out. And with people having Xbox Series S or PS5DE, more and more collectors editions are moving to just have a code in the box so people with digital only consoles can actually buy them.
Onilink97
Octorok
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Nope, don't think he has, unless they are referring to earlier comments of his in the summer where I think he said me heard it could get revealed this year. I don't want to put words in his mouth however, so I might be misremembering
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