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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

what is the "nintendo patent rule" if you don't mind explaining?
The idea is that, at least when it comes to hardware, if you find out about something from a patent instead of announcement, it's because Nintendo already decided not to use it.

The ultimate example is the oval LCD handheld patent published in 2015. People spent the next year speculating about what it meant for the NX, but it was actually the patent for the Indy, the thing Nintendo had cancelled in 2014/2015 when they committed to working on the NX. This sort of thing has happened repeatedly, and the opposite (finding out things from patents that do end up used in Nintendo hardware) also generally doesn't happen.
 
The idea is that, at least when it comes to hardware, if you find out about something from a patent instead of announcement, it's because Nintendo already decided not to use it.

The ultimate example is the oval LCD handheld patent published in 2015. People spent the next year speculating about what it meant for the NX, but it was actually the patent for the Indy, the thing Nintendo had cancelled in 2014/2015 when they committed to working on the NX. This sort of thing has happened repeatedly, and the opposite (finding out things from patents that do end up used in Nintendo hardware) also generally doesn't happen.
The last example of a patent making it to final hardware (that I can think of) is when the final Wii U gamepad patent leaked ahead of its re-reveal at E3 2012.
 
Handheld is liable to generally be “better” than docked in places where one performs better than the other.

“Reasonable limit” is a broad standard but, personally, I think that letting one mode be dramatically “better” than the other is bad for the ecosystem. If that definition of “reasonable” works for you, then I think you’re gonna get it.


What?
Koizumi designed the Switch. Wii was designed by Miyamoto and Takeda. Wii U was designed by NIRD and NTD. The former an offshoot from Takeda's team.
 
couple things happened this week in terms of Switch game sales/discounts:

- Best Buy's buy 2 get 1 deal is gone


- GameStop is having a fire sale of games (seemingly due to their Pro Week) which includes Switch games like Pokemon Shield, Mystery Dungeon DX, Pokken, NMH3, and Splatoon 2 at $15(!!!)

kxJey1C.png

(shoutout to Deku Deals for this picture)

just figured to share this here because the Best Buy offer was talked about here a while ago and there was talk of Nintendo's holiday deals (and also because I saw this tweet lmao)


probably could be nothing more than the retailers competing with each other ahead of Amazon's Prime Day sales given that Target had their Circle Week the past week
 
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This patent seems to be about force feedback in joysticks, not what kind of sensors they use.
Yep, the patent even goes are far as to include variable resistors in the the diagrams (blocks 4405 and 407) with no mention of magnetic field sensors (only magnetic field generators) so it's not like they're doing some black magic that somehow uses the magnetorheological fluid to perform double duties as both an actuator on sensor.

In fact, I would also go a step further and say that such a device would be wholly incompatible with hall effect sensors, as the magnetic field generators would likely interfere. That said hall, effect sensors aren't the only non-contact sensors*, so Nintendo could still combine this technology with one of those types instead, but that's just wishful thinking and this patent certainly doesn't cover that.

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Koizumi designed the Switch. Wii was designed by Miyamoto and Takeda. Wii U was designed by NIRD and NTD. The former an offshoot from Takeda's team.
Miyamoto didn't design the wii lol. It was mainly Takeda and Shiota, but there was a whole group of people. Just like the switch, it wasn't just Koizumi. We will never know how much their hardware design team has changed over the years.

Anyways, even if their lead designers have changed, it does not mean the core design values have changed.
 
Just commenting on this - the patent that leaked doesn’t seem to be a technology that people believe is mature or reliable enough, and generally a patent that leaks early is unlikely to be in use. Would have to dig a bit to when I asked on the topic.

It makes sense to use something like the hall effect in a new joy-con, but I don’t know if we have any other rumours on it?

Not from the patent but from a famous Chinese YouTuber with sources
 
I should clarify what I meant, since it was completely unclear in retrospect.

DS launched, but Nintendo advertised that it was a "third pillar" to the GameBoy line, but as soon as the DS proved its mettle, the GBA got dropped. On the flip side, 3DS succeeded the DS 18 months before the Wii U launched, giving it time to establish itself before Nintendo left the Wii's third party revenue behind.

Sony and Microsoft have other sources of revenue, two years of losses from the Xbox and Playstation divisions during a console launch window won't kill them (though it would hurt). Two years of losses would gut Nintendo when their only corporate revenue is games related. The 3DS kept the company alive during the Wii U years, and while Nintendo is in an excellent position, I don't think they're so foolish to put all their eggs in the NG basket.

So by "looking to the DS" I mean looking to how the DS was used - how many units of software total they were delivering across two platforms, how they used the DS as an "experimental" step of the GBA, until it was clear it was going to take, how they used the DS as a hedge in the Wii days.

Right now we're are literally seeing games from the handheld world come over (Another Code, Mario vs Donkey Kong, Luigi's Mansion 2), sequels to handheld games (Detective Pikachu 2), and games which have strong connections to the handheld space (2D Mario, Mario RPGs, Princess Peach). And Pokemon will have to be cross-gen for a couple years. Sword/Shield sold more software units in its first quarter than the Switch sold hardware units in its first year. Pokemon games don't have a long tail - they need that big install base.

This is why there will be a cross-gen period - Nintendo needs to replace the handheld sales that kept the company afloat when transitioning consoles in the past. And to bring it back to hardware, this is why Nintendo needs backwards compatibility. Not because of Breath of the Wild but because of Professor Layton - all these late stage 3rd party games that are cheap to make need to stay cheap (one development target) while fattening up the Switch NG's library, leaving no reason for folks to hang on to the old platform.

I remember those early Directs with 3DS games mixed in with Switch games. If Nintendo is going to support Switch into 2025, which they say they're doing, how great is it going to be for NG owners to watch and know that they can play every single game they see, on their one and only hybrid console? How tantalizing will it be for Switch owners to see gorgeous NG games and know that if they upgrade, they're not leaving any of their casual puzzlers or play-on-the-train platformers behind to do it?
It's probably also worth noting that Nintendo usually doesn't fully wind down support for a system without good reason. Even if the new hardware takes off immediately, 2025 is unlikely to be the end of first party Switch 1 games.

Also, this is a pretty minor quibble, but something that might not be as obvious to someone not thoroughly steeped in Pokémon minutia is that Detective Pikachu 2 being a 2023 release should probably not be viewed as an intentional strategy. If you know what to look for, it's very obvious the game suffered heavy internal delays.
 
Had a quick skim through the last few pages but couldn't see much, is there any credibility to the rumour of Nintendo releasing 2 NG Switch models? (digital only & one with a cartridge slot) Seeing videos pop up on it now.
 
Also, this is a pretty minor quibble, but something that might not be as obvious to someone not thoroughly steeped in Pokémon minutia is that Detective Pikachu 2 being a 2023 release should probably not be viewed as an intentional strategy. If you know what to look for, it's very obvious the game suffered heavy internal delays.
This was very obvious when we heard "Detective Pikachu will return on Switch" and didn't hear anything for years and years and years. Seems like that had a mess of a development.
 
Had a quick skim through the last few pages but couldn't see much, is there any credibility to the rumour of Nintendo releasing 2 NG Switch models? (digital only & one with a cartridge slot) Seeing videos pop up on it now.
As the guy who posted those rumours, there's a very good chance that the information is faulty. Maybe specifics are correct, idk, but regardless don't pay them any mind.
 
This was very obvious when we heard "Detective Pikachu will return on Switch" and didn't hear anything for years and years and years. Seems like that had a mess of a development.
I would imagine the development of the game halted sometime very shortly after they announced it, and only started work on it again last year. That game does not look like it has been in development for many years.
 
The last example of a patent making it to final hardware (that I can think of) is when the final Wii U gamepad patent leaked ahead of its re-reveal at E3 2012.
Pokémon Go Plus+ and Nintendo Labo both had patents published way before release.

It's just extremely unlikely, especially for consoles, since Nintendo can request and extend confidentiality from the patent offices.
 
Had a quick skim through the last few pages but couldn't see much, is there any credibility to the rumour of Nintendo releasing 2 NG Switch models? (digital only & one with a cartridge slot) Seeing videos pop up on it now.
as I'm understanding things currently, if a rumor mentions "NG" as the codename for the Switch 2 then you can consider it false until proven otherwise.

NG mostly came from emails surfaced in the Microsoft Activision case mentioning Nintendo next platform as Switch NG which is a shorthand for Next Generation but not the actual codename (according to posters who claim to know the development/behind the scenes actual codename).
 
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I would imagine the development of the game halted sometime very shortly after they announced it, and only started work on it again last year. That game does not look like it has been in development for many years.
Agreed. I do wonder why it was shelved for a bit though. I refuse to believe it was because of the movie, so (speculation) I think they had a concept for a sequel but didn't really think about where to take the series in terms of the mystery or plot or whatever.
For what it's worth, I think it's very strange that 4 Nintendo-published titles (SMB.W, DP:R, SMRPG and WW:MI!) are releasing so close to eachother. Detective Pikachu being a suddenly revived and mildly rushed project adds up to me, but there's a good chance that either WarioWare or SMRPG were also funky projects in some way. I can only really assume that it was Super Mario RPG, but I genuinely don't know.
 
This was very obvious when we heard "Detective Pikachu will return on Switch" and didn't hear anything for years and years and years. Seems like that had a mess of a development.
I figured it would end up looking and playing like LA Noire.
 
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couple things happened this week in terms of Switch game sales/discounts:

- Best Buy's buy 2 get 1 deal is gone


- GameStop is having a fire sale of games (seemingly due to their Pro Week) which includes Switch games like Pokemon Shield, Mystery Dungeon DX, Pokken, NMH3, and Splatoon 2 at $15(!!!)

kxJey1C.png

(shoutout to Deku Deals for this picture)

just figured to share this here because the Best Buy offer was talked about here a while ago and there was talk of Nintendo's holiday deals (and also because I saw this tweet lmao)


probably could be nothing more than the retailers competing with each other ahead of Amazon's Prime Day sales given that Target had their Circle Week the past week

In my European country, one of the largest game stores (not Amazon) launched a massive sale last Friday on many Switch-games, which include many of the games listed in your picture and many more.
Similarly, this sale also had 50% off on many good Switch-games like in your picture.

Maybe they're clearing out inventory for something...
 
Agreed. I do wonder why it was shelved for a bit though. I refuse to believe it was because of the movie, so (speculation) I think they had a concept for a sequel but didn't really think about where to take the series in terms of the mystery or plot or whatever.
For what it's worth, I think it's very strange that 4 Nintendo-published titles (SMB.W, DP:R, SMRPG and WW:MI!) are releasing so close to eachother. Detective Pikachu being a suddenly revived and mildly rushed project adds up to me, but there's a good chance that either WarioWare or SMRPG were also funky projects in some way. I can only really assume that it was Super Mario RPG, but I genuinely don't know.
Yeah. Regarding Super Mario RPG, it is being said that NDcube is the developer. That would mean a new Mario Party for Switch 2 won't be out until at least the second year of its life.
 
I’m team #NoCamera so I can still hope for the Nintendo Land return with handheld streaming a second screen to the dock 🤞🏻 (Wii U is back).


Anyway, what do you think about the possibility of Switch 2 having removable batteries? Here in Europe will be mandatory for every device in a couple of years, maybe Switch 2 will already be prepared for the new regulation.
(Sorry if already discussed)

For clarity sake, what are the terms of “removable batteries?”

I only ask because the Switch technically does have removable batteries, and so does say the Steam Deck. That said, both have an adhesive to hold it into place, so it’s not as trivial, nor as easy as say pop open the back, and remove the battery right there.

I want to say the terms of removable batteries are it must be able to come out of the device in minutes with basic tools? So no gluing/adhesive, and of course no iPhone like trickery where you must use a heat gun practically to remove the screen plus several other things to get to it.
 
For clarity sake, what are the terms of “removable batteries?”

I only ask because the Switch technically does have removable batteries, and so does say the Steam Deck. That said, both have an adhesive to hold it into place, so it’s not as trivial, nor as easy as say pop open the back, and remove the battery right there.

I want to say the terms of removable batteries are it must be able to come out of the device in minutes with basic tools? So no gluing/adhesive, and of course no iPhone like trickery where you must use a heat gun practically to remove the screen plus several other things to get to it.

Yeah I could be remembering wrong but from what I understand the Switch already meets the requirement of that Euro law.
 
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getting the switch battery out involves removing the heat sink and therefore compromising the thermal paste, no way it qualifies (edit: I was thinking of the fan. You only remove a heat plate for the battery which does still disrupt thermal paste, so the conclusion stands)

joy-cons are super simple though, they probably do
 
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Here's how removable batteries are defined by the EU.

A portable battery should be considered to be removable by the end-user when it can be removed with the use of commercially available tools and without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless they are provided free of charge, or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it. Commercially available tools are considered to be tools available on the market to all end-users without the need for them to provide evidence of any proprietary rights and that can be used with no restriction, except health and safety-related restrictions.
 
switch batteries are so fucking glued it's insane

technically joy-con batteries have adhesive but I've never had to use solvent on one
 
couple things happened this week in terms of Switch game sales/discounts:

- Best Buy's buy 2 get 1 deal is gone


- GameStop is having a fire sale of games (seemingly due to their Pro Week) which includes Switch games like Pokemon Shield, Mystery Dungeon DX, Pokken, NMH3, and Splatoon 2 at $15(!!!)

kxJey1C.png

(shoutout to Deku Deals for this picture)

just figured to share this here because the Best Buy offer was talked about here a while ago and there was talk of Nintendo's holiday deals (and also because I saw this tweet lmao)


probably could be nothing more than the retailers competing with each other ahead of Amazon's Prime Day sales given that Target had their Circle Week the past week

Goddamn now I understand why Americans constantly say videogames are too cheap: you people have twice the gdp per capita of my country AND constantly get deals like these?
 
Here's how removable batteries are defined by the EU.

A portable battery should be considered to be removable by the end-user when it can be removed with the use of commercially available tools and without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless they are provided free of charge, or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it. Commercially available tools are considered to be tools available on the market to all end-users without the need for them to provide evidence of any proprietary rights and that can be used with no restriction, except health and safety-related restrictions.
I think having a reasonably large adhesive pull tab for the battery (e.g. Xiaomi Poco F3) should be compliant with the EU's definition of a removable battery.
 
Goddamn now I understand why Americans constantly say videogames are too cheap: you people have twice the gdp per capita of my country AND constantly get deals like these?
I've got genuine concerns for pricing in some countries. I live in the UK and games are usually around 45-60 pounds total. However, depending on the game, those prices can get even lower or fucking skyrocket.

I genuinely hope the Switch 2's price adjusts with the currency, I don't want to get a mortgage to pay for a Mario game dammit.
 
Thoughts on the Animal Crossing LEGO series being released around the new system? March 2024 is the rumored release date for the LEGO sets, is it possible they release a new Animal Crossing along side the system launch?

Nobody has really talked about an Animal Crossing game releasing so what if that’s a launch title? Especially after how successful New Horizons was why would you not want to capitalize on that again with a new system.

Unlikely the LEGO sets are indicative of anything but I just find it interesting those are releasing in March.
 
Thoughts on the Animal Crossing LEGO series being released around the new system? March 2024 is the rumored release date for the LEGO sets, is it possible they release a new Animal Crossing along side the system launch?

Nobody has really talked about an Animal Crossing game releasing so what if that’s a launch title? Especially after how successful New Horizons was why would you not want to capitalize on that again with a new system.

Unlikely the LEGO sets are indicative of anything but I just find it interesting those are releasing in March.
The Animal Crossing team are working on the Splatoon 3 DLC at the moment. I am sure there is a small team currently working on a new Animal Crossing game, but it would be in the early stages of development and we probably won't see it until 2025 at the earliest.
 
Thoughts on the Animal Crossing LEGO series being released around the new system? March 2024 is the rumored release date for the LEGO sets, is it possible they release a new Animal Crossing along side the system launch?

Nobody has really talked about an Animal Crossing game releasing so what if that’s a launch title? Especially after how successful New Horizons was why would you not want to capitalize on that again with a new system.

Unlikely the LEGO sets are indicative of anything but I just find it interesting those are releasing in March.
I haven't checked up on the Software threads and their current predictions for new games, but that does sound plausible if there's any information surrounding the existence of an Animal Crossing game. Looking at Aya Kyogoku's wikipedia list, it looks like she hasn't worked on anything except New Horizons.

It'd be a very good launch title for the successor system at least, very appealing.
 
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Thoughts on the Animal Crossing LEGO series being released around the new system? March 2024 is the rumored release date for the LEGO sets, is it possible they release a new Animal Crossing along side the system launch?

Nobody has really talked about an Animal Crossing game releasing so what if that’s a launch title? Especially after how successful New Horizons was why would you not want to capitalize on that again with a new system.

Unlikely the LEGO sets are indicative of anything but I just find it interesting those are releasing in March.
there's more than likely no correlation between what Lego is doing and what Nintendo is doing
 
That's not how it works all around. No developer is going to target docked mode from the get go, everything has to run on the handheld mode no matter what. Having a massive split would mean disparity between modes, two different platforms to develop for... And that's something Nintendo sure doesn't want them to deal with.
But 3rd party devs are already developing for much higher teraflops in PS5 and XSX. The same game they'll develop for/port to Switch 2 portable. What difference does it make?

I’ve actually not said anything about it at all!

Calm down lol
leon-the-professional-norman-stansfield.gif
 
Which considering M1 is already 119mm2...on TSMC 5nm, and it uses ARM's (at least iirc) bigger A78C cores, would likely push it beyond the die size of Lockhart (Series S's SoC).
Don’t use Apple at all for a comparison because no one compares to them at all. It’s (pun not intended) an Apples to Oranges comparison.
 
For clarity sake, what are the terms of “removable batteries?”

I only ask because the Switch technically does have removable batteries, and so does say the Steam Deck. That said, both have an adhesive to hold it into place, so it’s not as trivial, nor as easy as say pop open the back, and remove the battery right there.

I want to say the terms of removable batteries are it must be able to come out of the device in minutes with basic tools? So no gluing/adhesive, and of course no iPhone like trickery where you must use a heat gun practically to remove the screen plus several other things to get to it.
Take a look at the 3DS. Now that's a removable battery.
 
It requires a specialized tool to open it like spudger and a heating tool to melt the glues. Opening the phone also removes waterproofing.
Batteries with adhesive pull tabs shouldn't require a spudger or a heat gun for removal, as shown in the Xiaomi Poco F3 teardown video I've shared.
 
Gen 9 looks exactly how I expect an open world game with tons of models in the field that isn't made by an internal Nintendo studio to look on the Switch. Yes, GF has a problem with textures and lighting, but overall the game looks great, I dare you to find an open world game on the Switch that looks better and isn't called Zelda. Performance is a disaster of course, but it's also expected when a game of that scope was made in three years.
Playing Red Dead Redemption on the Switch right now and it looks waaaaay better than Scarlet/Violet. Dragon Quest 11 also looks so much better and that's a port of a PS4 game! There's also Skyrim and Nier that I've played and imo both of them also look nicer compared to Pokémon.

I also get that everyone has different standards but man I disagree that Scarlet/Violet looks great overall. The player, NPC and Pokémon models are nice, but the rest... is terrible. And the game really struggles to run in a consistent framerate... It's a complete technical failure.

This is off topic and it's not related to hardware at all so it's my last post about this subject.
 
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Batteries with adhesive pull tabs shouldn't require a spudger or a heat gun for removal, as shown in the Xiaomi Poco F3 teardown video I've shared.
Yeah but it requires spudger and heat gun to access the battery. The guy made it look easy because he had already opened it once.
 
The Animal Crossing team are working on the Splatoon 3 DLC at the moment. I am sure there is a small team currently working on a new Animal Crossing game, but it would be in the early stages of development and we probably won't see it until 2025 at the earliest.
common misconception. Animal Crossing and Splatoon don't actually have that much development overlap
 
Yeah but it requires spudger and heat gun to access the battery. The guy made it look easy because he had already opened it once.
Yes for smartphones and tablets.

But assuming Nintendo's new hardware isn't drastically different from the OLED model, which doesn't require a spudger or heat gun to access the battery, I think the EU should be fine with Nintendo using a reasonably large adhesive pull tab for the battery on Nintendo's new hardware. (That's if Nintendo does decide to use an adhesive pull tab for the battery for Nintendo's new hardware to comply with the EU's law.)
 
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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