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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

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Bonejack said:
Eurogamer yelled: "OPEN THE GATE A LITTLE!"
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Dark Cloud said:
The Matrix demo is important. It’s more of a sign. It’s a stance Nintendo is taking since it was used for PS and Xbox too. They want to show you they can be comparable to them even if they’re not at the end of the day.
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Indeed and a beefed up BotW is a different demo than the one that was primarily used for the Switch, that being 1-2 Switch! showing off the Joy-Cons.
 
I bet Aonuma was so cocky about the expectations for the next Zelda because he already knows what ReDraketed will bring to game developers.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
DLSS 3.5 doesn't make ray-tracing cheaper, it just makes ray-tracing better according to NVIDIA.

It's not clear how costly DLSS 3.5 is on tensor core cycles yet, but it could be significant.

And it's hard to tell if the Switch 2's raytracing will be advanced enough for the superior denoising offered by DLSS 3.5 to matter.

Frame gen doesn't matter much currently for consoles as right now it's mostly about going from 60 FPS to 120 FPS in its current state.

FSR3 will be usable on Switch 2, but probably no one will use it other than Xenoblade 4 or 5 if they're still pseudo turn-based (as Xenoblade 3 used a primitive frame gen solution itself)
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I think a lot of that comes down to how ray-tracing is presented compared to resolution and frame-rate. With those later two, its quite easy to present the difference between 1080p and 4k at similar frame-rates, or 60 to 120 fps at 4k, but ray tracing has so many parameters, whether that is how the de-noising is handled, how many rays are fired per pixel, whether rays are also casted to calculate direct lighting, maximum bounces per ray, shadow rays, etc. But the end goal, at least if you are fully path-tracing the image, is to have more rays at a reasonable frame-rate, and while I cant pretend to understand what DLSS 3.5 is doing quite yet, the term "ray-reconstruction" seems to imply that it is practically "generating" rays that dont actually exist, just as I described for resolution and frame-rate generating pixels or even frames that were never actually rendered, while also improving de-noising quality (which in a theoretical sense is also similar to "generating" rays that you never actually fired). So if the goal of ray-tracing is not to boost frame-rate but to boost ray quality at the current frame-rate, then it makes ray-tracing cheaper, in the sense that it suddenly requires far fewer rays to reach that same level of quality.

In other words, without DLSS, you can make ray-tracing "cheaper" on lower end hardware, but its going to mean less rays fired, less ray bounces, less triangles in the world (BVH tree) etc. If Nintendo truly has DLSS 3.5 running on hardware, it can means that they don't have to ray-trace at such a low quality, in theory.
 
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indospot said:
Performance isn't expected to be affected by ray reconstruction. The demo Nvidia showed had slightly higher framerates compared to DLSS 3, but they warned that's not the expected behavior for most games.
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It didn't affect the framerates of those games because existing denoisers are expensive already and DLSS 3.5 replaces those denoisers with itself.
 
SirArthur said:
Interesting that they went with BOTW as their tech demo. I would guess since its internal epd and the scope of the game. I could have guessed LM3 to maybe show off ray tracing.
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LM3 wouldn't benefit much from raytracing due to fixed camera angles allowing the devs to put in mostly ideal lighting situations at all times.

Anything dynamic with many light sources would show the benefits more easily.
 
Paxie said:
Holy shit what a bomb to wake up to. Since T239 is based on Ampere, I doubt REDACTED is using DLSS 3.x - I remember reading that requires dedicated hardware introduced with the 40-series. But it has performance comparable to 9th gen consoles? Holy shit...
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There’s a lot of misinformation and confusion… DLSS has bad naming conventions. DLSS 3’s frame generation is only for the RTX 40-series, but DLSS 3.5’s Ray Reconstruction (denoiser) is available to use in RTX cards.

From Nvidia’s own website:
“NVIDIA DLSS 3.5. Our newest innovation, Ray Reconstruction, is part of an enhanced AI-powered neural renderer that improves ray-traced image quality for all GeForce RTX GPUs by replacing hand-tuned denoisers with an NVIDIA supercomputer-trained AI network”

So, there no reason DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction shouldn’t work on the NG Switch.
 
Thraktor said:
The BoTW demo is also interesting. It's not hugely surprising that it's not ToTK, as my guess is they started work on the demo before ToTK finished, and probably wanted to be able to work on something without the code changing under them. I wouldn't be surprised if this was an early internal test of the new hardware that they were happy enough with to show third parties. They would be very unlikely to show third parties actual in-progress games for the new console to avoid leaks, anyway.

I'm really curious about what the BoTW demo looks like, shame it'll almost certainly never see the light of day.
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If we´re lucky the demo of BoTW devs at gamescom were shown could be the versions of Botw/totk we see on Switch 2.
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
It didn't affect the framerates of those games because existing denoisers are expensive already and DLSS 3.5 replaces those denoisers with itself.
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Good point. But if you assume that a game that uses DLSS already has denoising by default and still sees a performance uplift, that shouldn't really matter, right? You're always getting better performance compared to no DLSS.
 
indospot said:
Good point. But if you assume that a game that uses DLSS already has denoising by default and still sees a performance uplift, that shouldn't really matter, right? You're always getting better performance compared to no DLSS.
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The specific issue is whether or not the Switch 2 is powerful enough to use the denoising offered by DLSS 3.5 outside of a few games. If a game uses ray tracing, it will probably use DLSS 3.5 for denoising, but the issue is just if the Switch 2 has enough power to do ray tracing and denoising well in the first place.

Almost everyone will use the image reconstruction offered by DLSS 3.5 as it's basically just free performance.
 
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indospot said:
Eh, I'm the same. It seems too good to be true
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One thing that makes me believe this could be true is that Nintendo have never been richer than now, so they probably don´t need to think as cheaply as they have done before and can afford to cash in on a modern, more expensive console to make. Who knows maybe the new Nintendo president has even abandoned the longstanding Nintendo goal to run profits of not only software sales but on console sales as well and want to go full Sony mode (Earning money on software sales and subscriptions, lose money on console sales).
 
The three major current components of DLSS 3.5 are

1. Image reconstruction-Usable and will be used by almost everyone
2. Frame generation-Not usable on the Switch 2 unless the chip is very custom designed, would not be used much either if it was available due to frame generation mostly being about going from 60 to 120 FPS.
3. Ray-tracing denoising-Usable on Switch 2, may not be feasible if the Switch 2 isn't powerful enough to do high-quality ray-tracing.
 
ILikeFeet said:
The Matrix Demo is heavy, so it's usage is quite interesting. It goes as low as 540p on Series S

800x600 on steam deck
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Ok this actually helps to keep my expectations in check. If the next Nintendo console is overall slightly more powerful than Steam Deck and if they did optimise the Demo in some form I do think it could run well and thanks to DLSS and some low key form of RT look quite good. I will not hype myself up too much until announcement, regardless of how credible leaks are.
 
Eurogamer, VGC and GVG all independently reporting the same feels as good as rumours get. Wonder who else will chime in the next few days. I’m certainly happy that we start to hear more again. Could easily see some more Nikkei/Bloomberg articles in the next couple of weeks with TGS incoming.
 
Do we think Nintendo´s Drake announcement timeline will change at all due to leaks? Or did Nintendo realize that leaks would happen due to having a live tech demo of Drake and is even ok with the leaks because it helps build up hype and anticipation among core gamers for the console?
 
hannibunny2411 said:
Eurogamer, VGC and GVG all independently reporting the same feels as good as rumours get. Wonder who else will chime in the next few days. I’m certainly happy that we start to hear more again. Could easily see some more Nikkei/Bloomberg articles in the next couple of weeks with TGS incoming.
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Danny said:
Do we think Nintendo´s Drake announcement timeline will change at all due to leaks? Or did Nintendo realize that leaks would happen due to having a live tech demo of Drake and is even ok with the leaks because it helps build up hype and anticipation among core gamers for the console?
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We're only going to get more leaks as we lead into the hoilday's too.
 
Danny said:
Do we think Nintendo´s Drake announcement timeline will change at all due to leaks? Or did Nintendo realize that leaks would happen due to having a live tech demo of Drake and is even ok with the leaks because it helps build up hype and anticipation among core gamers for the console?
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Not really, Nintendo doesn't publicly care about this unless it affects their sales business. And behind-the-scenes, Nintendo's only actions will be trying to find out which dev talked to journos.
 
SirArthur said:
Interesting that they went with BOTW as their tech demo. I would guess since its internal epd and the scope of the game. I could have guessed LM3 to maybe show off ray tracing but who knows what else they showed.
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BotW is already a beautiful game. Having it upscaled to 4K would make it even more beautiful.

Also, a steady 30 fps would also be a delight.
 
We're in the "narrowing specs" to be more precise with these reports
Matrix Awakens helps a lot to have some more precisely on what we can expect performance wise of the system


And yes, even with the removed DLSS 3.x from the article... this aligns on what me (and I guess more insiders) received after Gamescom talks
 
necrolipe said:
We're in the "narrowing specs" to be more precise with these reports
Matrix Awakens helps a lot to have some more precisely on what we can expect performance wise of the system


And yes, even with the removed DLSS 3.x from the article... this aligns on what me (and I guess more insiders) received after Gamescom talks
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Why didn't anyone tell Nintendo to not show Ubisoft the stuff. When will they learn?! ;D
 
necrolipe said:
We're in the "narrowing specs" to be more precise with these reports
Matrix Awakens helps a lot to have some more precisely on what we can expect performance wise of the system


And yes, even with the removed DLSS 3.x from the article... this aligns on what me (and I guess more insiders) received after Gamescom talks
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Can you personally speak anymore about what version of DLSS they're using? These articles don't seem to be 100% positive and 2.0 vs 3.0 or even 3.0 vs 3.5 is a big deal.
 
BreakAtmo said:
I wonder if the version they're using is updated with a newer, more efficient version of UE5?
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given the age of the video, this is still the 5.0 version. the Nintendo demo would most likely be on a much newer version

lexony said:
Ok this actually helps to keep my expectations in check. If the next Nintendo console is overall slightly more powerful than Steam Deck and if they did optimise the Demo in some form I do think it could run well and thanks to DLSS and some low key form of RT look quite good. I will not hype myself up too much until announcement, regardless of how credible leaks are.
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I wouldn't call this a "low key form of RT". RTGI and reflections in a city scape brings the big consoles to its knees. it's 30fps for a reason while Fortnite is 60fps.

carbvan said:
Can you personally speak anymore about what version of DLSS they're using? These articles don't seem to be 100% positive and 2.0 vs 3.0 or even 3.0 vs 3.5 is a big deal.
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the version isn't important, it's the tools use. it's using Super Resolution which is expected. ray reconstruction is probably too new
 
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