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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
16GB cartdridge will still be common for Switch sucessor, 32GB cartdridge are still expensive for Nintendo and third parties to use, unless you want to pay $70/100 for the next Legend of Zelda/Mario on Switch sucessor
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Ah man, that'll take a while given Gamescom is in Germany and our bureaucracy is soooo complex and slow.
;]
if the format has changed then so has the pricing structure. so we can't make assumptions how what's more common until we know details about new cards
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
My wallet is ready to pay $70 for switch 2 games.
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Again, there was recent talk of Macronix introducing a different card format which is supposedly cheaper and higher capacity. It's best not to assume the card pricing will be exactly the same if they're using a new card format.
Did we hear anything about the prices of the new cards? Source?
TechnicalTip6578
Tektite
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may i ask something speculative regarding TGS?
nintendo is participating there however in compared to Gamescom it's far more private & more business focused so obviously that'd mean they'd give dev kits/showcase the console to partners but the thing here i noticed is that the companies participating most likely own a dev kit at this point
these are the participants for the record:
nintendo is participating there however in compared to Gamescom it's far more private & more business focused so obviously that'd mean they'd give dev kits/showcase the console to partners but the thing here i noticed is that the companies participating most likely own a dev kit at this point
these are the participants for the record:
- Arc System Works
- Bandai Namco
- Capcom
- Hamster
- Inti Creates
- Koei Tecmo
- Konami
- Level-5
- Microsoft Japan
- SEGA/Atlus
- Square Enix
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
Nintendo will problaby show the finalized dev kit of Switch sucessor to this companies, the VGC report was too vague in regards to Switch sucessor dev kits,never stated closer third parties of Nintendo has the final dev kit,
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
demanding games such as the next 3D Mario/Bayonetta will be unable to run at 60fps, Bayonetta 3 has trouble trying to run at 60fps on Switch
Blue Monty
Inkling
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If the games are made to be run w/o DLSS they will run at 60fps if not they will not. Both these franchises (at least nowadays) are made to run for Nintendo console only so they will target 60fps how well they mantain will depend on the developer. A more powerful console would only change how high the ceiling for the developer is to make these games but they can always go over it no matter the power of the console (see games like Immortals of Aevum)
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IIRC it was a Macronix press release or interview or something, it wasn't directly tied to Nintendo. It may have just been marketing or PR speak but they said that higher capacities will now be available for cheaper, or something to that effect .
D
Deleted member 3433
Guest
Huh? You can safely bet that Nintendo will prioritize the next 3D Super Mario game's performance.
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The Overton window of hardware speculation
lattjeful
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Oh-noooooooooooooooo. Such a shame. Sucks too that a good chunk of Digital Foundry are based in Germany too.
Hehe.
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
Doug Bowser coment on Nintendo Switch demand and the new Mario voice
www.ign.com
Nintendo Live Interview: Doug Bowser Talks Switch Demand, Charles Martinet, and More - IGN
On the first day of the company's Nintendo Live fan event in Seattle, Washington, IGN sat down with Nintendo of America President Doug Bowser to talk about the mission behind bringing Nintendo Live to the United States, the decision to make longtime Mario voice actor Charles Martinet a new...
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
depending on the game scope is gonna be hard to maintain a flawless 60fps.
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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Mario Odyssey runs at 60fps and is excellent because of it. It feels responsive and it's great.
If Nintendo is at all smart, they'll try and keep that up with whatever they make next.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Can't wait for Super Mario Galaxy 3 to run at 60FPS (after interpolation and interlacing, running at 15FPS internally.)
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
PS4+, not Pro+, but it all depends on what you mean. This is the drum I'm beating.
PS4/Xbox One game? Yeah, it's all there, no cuts, boom. Easy port
PS4 Pro, One X experience? This will require work to do, replacing whatever AA/Upscaling solution was in the game before with DLSS 2.0.
Series S?: Assume cuts, if the game can come at all. Some games will look better than expected, or even better than Series S, other games will look much worse, or not come at all - get used to not understanding why just by looking at the game.
mariodk18
Install Base Forum Namer
“We don’t need no file compression
Developers, leave them games alone”
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Doom and Witcher were designed with much stronger hardware in mind, but FFVII remake was designed to be in the same ball park as switch 2...I. PS4 versions of all those games wee perfect. I don't follow you.
You're not wrong. I'll admit I'm being pretty pessimistic about this. I don't expect cart prices to drop down do drastically. 16GB carts are more expensive than the discs on PS4 and xbone, but I really hope Nintendo helped with 32GB with ToTK.
Nintendo will offer 64GB carts, and they need to sooner than later, because mine you said, +32GB games will be common on Switch 2 from third kart devs. It's not so much Nintendo offering these carts though, as they aren't the ones making them. Its supply and demand. But Nintendo can help bring the prices down for sure themselves like they did with ToTK.
Early on I would expect to see a lot of developers requiring partial downloads for their games that are on carts. What will help migate the cart issue/price
is if Nintendo has decent SSD storage size to begin with. Hopefully 512GB, or 256GB at the very least.
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Foltzie
Uncle Muji
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Translation: just what the F are Gotham Knights and Baldurs Gate 3 doing on the main CPU thread.
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NateDrake
Chain Chomp
In terms of raw power, they will not match.
Factor in DLSS features & such... the possibility of it matching resolution and such exists -- which, to the consumer, is what matters. There are other variables to consider, of course.
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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Starting to realise how dumb my comment was.
I still stand on the hill that I think it's weird that some games double, triple or whatever-the-hell-a-nine-uple-is the actual size of their game on PC compared to consoles and especially the Switch. I'm just hoping that any streamlined way to compress Switch 2 games is used well. I don't want 50% of the base-console storage size to be taken up by that year's Call of Duty title.
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I think Oldpuck was trying to say that it won't be "easily" or "instantly" capable of any Series S level game, rather it will take a lot of special optimizations and work to get a game from this gen running well.
After which yeah it might wind up being DLSS'd to a better or similar resolution. I'm guessing overall CPU capability will be the main issue with ports from current gen but it should be a much lower gap than we saw with Switch 1 and last gen.
necrolipe
Universo Nintendo Owner
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Several of them already have devkit
This don't apply to any of their games ever available on Switch
Next system with raw power is capable of doing 60 @ 1080 easily from what we already know even without RAM / CPU clocks showed
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Tensor Core, O Tensor Core, where art thou Tensor Core?
I HOPE that offloading tasks to the GPU, or indeed the Tensor Cores, is at least made more accessible on NG Switch. It could be the difference between a game being possible or not. I believe this was the case for Witcher 3 on Switch.
TheRealWario
Piranha Plant
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I could see a 3D Mario game running at 60fps, unless they surprise us with something next-level, but I agree with Bayonetta. Platinum games pushed the envelope with Astral Chain and will definitely do it again.
ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Yes I've said this opinion on an earlier post too.
For 1st party games, a lot of the Mario games are 2-5GB. This includes Sports games, odyssey and platformers. Even Super Mario Wonder is only 4.5GB. Some of their larger titles are MP Remastered at 6.8GB, Animal Crossing at 10.5GB, Pikmin 4 at 10.5GB. But Hell, Pokemon Scarlet is only 6.8GB digital! I almost forgot Ultimate is on a 16GB cart, because it was actually 13.5GB at launch
I'm not expecting 1st party mario games to suddenly triple in size on Switch 2. I mean its possible, but Nitendo are the masters of compression, they were never really big on textures (though that could change) and FMV cut scenes. We eille will have higher SSD speeds and that compression hardware on Switch 2 as well to help migate space.
Besides that, think the majority of Nintendo games will be using 8 or 16GB carts on the successor, simply because they don't feel like they need to, and they do like saving money, which is ironic since they are the ones needed to push down prices of the larger cart sizes. Lol
Hopefully the next xenoblade and open world Zelda pave the way for 64GB carts, and reduce the overall cost so it ends up being as common as 16GB carts on Switch 2's lifespan at least, cause I don't want to pay $80 lol.
We'll be lucky to get 128GB carts though.
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Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
whistles
KeijiKG
Moblin
Be as it may, ARM and x86 still have performance gaps so that's to be expected.
Best frame of reference comes from Jetson Orin kits and to a lesser extent, other A78 powered devices. In the end, it'll still be a whole lot better than the A57 in the Switch.
Lancelot
Like Like
Are you considering docked mode in there? Because I did for this one.
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Zelda's already $70 even if you don't get a physical card. It ain't getting cheaper.
Right, if it's truly new/changed then everything we currently know about game cards gets thrown in the air. Over the last decade standard rewriteable cards seem to have dropped a lot in price (or gained in capacity at the same price) more than Nintendo's game cards have--hopefully something new would help them move beyond whatever wall they've run into.
True today, true tomorrow, true for the last 30 years. Nothing particular about what we know about the next Switch that will make it harder for them to achieve with a Mario game than it was on Wii, Wii U, or Switch.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Every Bayonetta game targets 60FPS, with the hardware on hand with NG Switch, I think it would be absurd for them to lower those standards.
NateDrake
Chain Chomp
Right, and I'd agree on that assessment.
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ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Nah they definitely could run at 60fps. It's up to the developers as they set the limitations and their visions.Mario games aren't gonna be CPU heavy, so we don't have to worry about that bottleneck thankfully. Nintendo does value high framerates for some of their fames.Odyssey is 60fps, so I see no reason why not the next 3d one won't be. I think wonder is 60fps, but I could be wrong.
Bayonetta 4 could definitely be 60fps as well. Its up to the devs. They have so much more to work with in terms of power. If they want to push fluid gameplay (which they will) they will prioritize 60fps. They couldn't do that with Bayonetta 3, but the jump in hardware from Wii u to switch isn't nearly as big as switch to Switch 2. I remember for Bayo 2, the RAM bandwidth was a huge bottleneck (alpha transparencies), and they only had enough GPU to get closer to 60fps. But they have so much more power to work with now.
I'm sure later in switch successor's cycle they will prioritize graphical detail more over frames and have it at 30fps. But for some games, I can see will always be 60fps.
Lancelot
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No hardware will ever fullfil a certain resolution/framerate target... It all depends on the visual prowess of the game, Nintendo has always prioritized 60 fps for the Mario franchise however.
Instro
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I do hope there's a big increase in game card and storage sizes. I know people talk about how great Nintendo is at keeping their game sizes smaller, but I really hate how compressed the audio is in their games. Xenoblade 3's OST sounds massively different between the game and stand alone release for example.
YolkFolk
Tingle
With the exception of Bowsers Fury in handheld mode.
Granted, that was a side project made in 3D worlds engine.
Alovon11
Like Like
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I would rather ere on it being closer or maybe even trading blows with Series S...assuming the game isn't CPU bound.
Looking at the RTX 3050M (The closest comparison to T239 @ Thraktor's Clocks once accounting for overhead on the part of the 3050M and optimization+Way more cache on the part of T239) vs the 6500M (Closest same-architecture comparison to Series S, Infinity Cache offsetting the 4 fewer CUs by a bit), the two are very comparable, trading blows very often, even without using DLSS or RT Comparisons.
And then add in the rumors going around about how Switch 2 may have more RAM in general than Series S (Would make sense as RAM Prices have crashed hard recently), It likely will only be CPU-Bound Scenarios where Series S would have a major edge considering Ampere Mixed Precision can help offset FLOP deficit a bit, and then DLSS furthers that by offloading upscaling from the shader cores onto the Tensor Cores.
Especially Scenarios where Series S is memory-limited due to how little memory is usable by devs in the case of Switch 2 having more.
Dimensio
Tektite
To be fair Mario Sunshine was 60fps in all prerelease footage, From the first trailer to the last right before release.
I imagine the reason it was 30fps in the final game was because they were rushing to get it out and didn't have time to optimize it well.
I played the game myself with a cheat code to make it run at 60fps on real hardware and the game runs at a stable 60 with a very few drops, it's only in pinna park were it constantly stays in the 40-50fps range.
lemonfresh
#Team2024
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and there we go
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I know you mean file size, but for a second I thought you were talking about the physical carts themselves, and I imagined a Switch 2 with a giant neo-geo style cartridge slot in the back.
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All this talk of Series S is neat, but I just want slightly less ambitious releases that consistently target > 1080p docked resolution. I hope that’s the bulk of releases on the platform - Nintendo’s own titles at the very least.
no, I want all Drake games to use as much ray tracing as possible. set the system on fire if you have to!
Alovon11
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Well with DLSS, you can hit higher upscaling outputs more consistently as it's the Tensor Cores doing the work rather than the Shader Cores (Which is what limits FSR2 on Series S/Lower end hardware).
Now, DLSS does have it's own cost, but that cost seemingly has been widdled down and reduced more and more over time, and I assume it'd be at it's lowest relative to the hardware on T239 because it can be fine-tuned around specifically.
There is latency between operating data between the Shader and Tensor cores as they can't operate in parallel iirc, but there would have to be some sort of waiting bit for FSR2/Shader Upscaling anyway to occur in the pipeline. You're just incurring a bit of latency cost, to dramatically reduce the cost of the upscale for the quality returned.
So I do think Switch 2 docked should be able to out-resolution Series S in most scenarios
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Jokes aside (?) I do want to see what this thing can do, and I’d love to see teams push it’s limits including whatever raytracing they can muster, but resolution is my single biggest gripe with Switch presentation. I couldn’t care less about “matching Series S” when it’s become a 1080p device. I’d rather see late ports that target higher resolutions with lower quality is my point.
Sure would be nice if this does pan out!
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