• Hey everyone, staff have documented a list of banned content and subject matter that we feel are not consistent with site values, and don't make sense to host discussion of on Famiboards. This list (and the relevant reasoning per item) is viewable here.
  • Do you have audio editing experience and want to help out with the Famiboards Discussion Club Podcast? If so, we're looking for help and would love to have you on the team! Just let us know in the Podcast Thread if you are interested!

StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Reader mode
Goodtwin said:
* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *


When you look at third party titles like Doom, Doom Eternal, and the Witcher 3, are these publishers going to want to offer free upgrades for these games that while impressive relative to the Switch hardware, were significantly compromised in order to make the transition? Or are they more likely to offer release these games as NSG games with PS4/Pro levels visuals? My guess is that this is indeed what most of them will do. You will be able to continue to redownload the Switch build of these games, but only the newer build will be available for sale going forward. This happens even on Steam where a publisher will delist the original version of a game and then put out the newer remastered version of the game for a higher price. If the original game is in your Steam library, you can still redownload it, but can no longer purchase the older and more often than not cheaper build of the game.
Click to expand...
I think some could offer free patches
Some would rather opt to repackage deluxe versions with all the DLC and upgraded visuals as a new release on the new hardware.

Or both… if you’re going through the trouble to patch you might as well release a new package for those who haven’t bought at all yet…

I hope we get some patches for a bunch of them though. The Witcher, the dooms, and others I think would be great candidates
 
0
ILikeFeet said:
the one thing I always look forward to, is naturalistic light sources

maxresdefault.jpg


look at all these lights and windows. now imagine them casting shadows! 🤩
Click to expand...
I love how you push for RT features
I’M IN
 
chocolate_supra said:
Pretty sure that's what they did for BotW on WiiU.
Click to expand...
Based on how it behaves, it's probably not swap. Most likely the game is being granted access to some memory that is reserved for applets, but isn't actually in use when the game is in the foreground.
Concernt said:
Both Wii U and 3DS played some tricks with the OS to get ambitious games running. Breath of the Wild is of course the big one with its loading screens to leave the Home Menu, but I think the 3DS solutions were more interesting. Sun and Moon on the original 3DS (so, not New 3DS) would basically force the system to reboot every time it launched or closed. These were ambitious games for 3DS, despite what we think of their work on Switch, their 3DS games were nothing to scoff at. What they did when you pressed the HOME button was to display a non-functional simulacrum of the Home Screen, but with it all actually running as part of the game, much like the Home Menu on Wii.

Essentially, when you pressed HOME, you were opening an in-game menu that just happened to look like your home screen.

3DS Home was also very complex. It sort of tried to do too much for the hardware, with the Home Screen always accessible while a game is suspended. Multitasking in 2011 with 128mb of RAM was ROUGH. It was amazing what they did for what they were given. I think this may have informed their design of the Nintendo Switch Home Menu, simplified even next to 3DS, but it meant games only had to disable video recording at the absolute worst to get running, since the OS is so lightweight. I get people bemoan the loss of 3DS "charm", but I think developers not having to reboot the system and dump the entire operating system every time you opened it is a fair trade-off.
Click to expand...
It's probably the real Home Menu. You're just blocked from launching some of the heavier applets.
 
Can I ask the dumbest question.

Will they most likely use the original dock so that we can put both the switches in or will it need a new dock for technical reasons??
 
Pokemaniac said:
Based on how it behaves, it's probably not swap. Most likely the game is being granted access to some memory that is reserved for applets, but isn't actually in use when the game is in the foreground.

It's probably the real Home Menu. You're just blocked from launching some of the heavier applets.
Click to expand...
It is and it isn't. It's the same code but it's not the same COPY, if that makes sense. There were three ways to deal with the Home Menu's RAM consumption on 3DS. You could disable "applets" like the browser, Miiverse, etc., you could force the user to load in and out of the Home Menu every time they hit the HOME button, or you can dump the entire OS, and reboot the system into an OS included in the game itself.

Games like Smash Bros. and USUM/SM did exactly this (except on NEW 3DS models where none of these tricks were necessary). When you open them, the system restarts completely to let it load its own custom OS. It uses your themes, and your icons, but it's not the same. The applet icons can't merely not be launched, they're dummies to begin with. As far as the CPU is concerned, it's not running the OS anymore, it's running the game on bare metal, and the game is faking the Home Menu for the user. The hallmark of this approach is when you launch software that uses it, the screens will go blank for a moment and the speakers, if volume is turned up, will click, BUT ALSO, if you launch ANY OTHER application or game from this "fake" Home Menu, the system has to reboot to get OUT of the custom OS and back into the normal one that most software uses and expects.

It was extremely weird. And again, this is the same approach Wii Home Menu took. The Wii Home Menu looks the same across all games, and that was mandated, but it didn't ACT the same, and the only way for Nintendo to 'update' the Wii Home Menu was to put it on the disk with the game. It was literally a menu in the game that could perform system actions, which Nintendo mandated to use the same design.

3DS games pulling this trick had more hurdles, of course, since they had to make sure that their bespoke implementations of the OS and Home menu to shave off precious megabytes didn't break the moment a new Home Menu update was distributed. I'm not privy to how they dealt with that, but deal with that they did!
 
oldpuck said:
Dunno how old you are, but yeah, those first commercials were the Duracell Bunny marching along slowly and then the rad Energizer Bunny comes in with its cool sunglasses and runs circles around it.


You and I have done 20 rounds on this before, so I don't expect to change your mind, and I don't particularly want to because I am not convinced that Nintendo will break hardware compatibility.

But there is evidence to suggest that Nintendo won't make a device that can fit in the existing dock or that is immediately compatible with the existing Joy-Con rails - namely the larger screen. Is it definitive evidence? No. It is evidence. Yes.

Of the 7 consoles Nintendo has made with controllers, only 2 of them were able to use the previous machine's controllers, and only one of them had them work as first class devices. If Nintendo adds significant new functionality to the controllers, why would making the rail support Joy-Cons be a priority? And if it's not a priority, can you literally imagine zero engineering cases where it might be functionally advantageous to alter the rail?

This is factually untrue in almost every way imaginable. Guaranteeing that the existing docks both fit and are thermally sufficient to the new device represents a huge engineering constraint. It dictates the placement of the heatsink, the position of the fan, and its airflow, as well as the thickness of the device. All of this just to reuse a single plastic mold is not, in anyway, a cost savings.

Similar for the rail. It limits the amount of data that can come over the connection, the amount of charge the NG controllers can draw. It limits the shape of the controllers, as the rail's design can only take a limited amount of leverage. I am sure Nintendo would love to reuse the rail if it can, but it's not a given that it will not impose additional costs on the new system.


What's frustrating about this conversation isn't disagreeing on what is most likely. It's that you shut down the possibility there is any advantage, and thus shut down speculation. It would be one thing if you were weighing costs and benefits and then had faith in your consideration that the costs outweight the benefits of changing the form factor.

But there are plenty of advantages. The dock blocks the back of the Switch. The Steam Deck, the Rog Ally, the Aya Neo - they all vent air back there because it's the most efficient place to do so. Is it truly inconceivable that there might be a cost associated with taking a flat chip and a flat fan in a flat tablet and somehow making it vent out the top?

"I could make it weigh less if I could cut out the three inches of copper if I could just vent it out the back."
"So make it vent out the back?"
"We'd have to redesign the dock."
"It's a chunk of plastic. The visual identity team will want to look different anyway, so just make it vent out the back."

The connecting pins for the Joy-Cons currently only have to carry a tiny amount of data, and a tiny amount of electricity. Slapping on a camera or a microphone to those things would likely require a change. Altering the ergonomics would put additional stress on the rail due to leverage. All of these changes would be constrained by guaranteeing backward compatibility.

Again I'm not saying this is definitely the case. Nor am I saying that the Joy-Cons won't be usable via BT or similar, even if they do break the physical shape of the device. But when trying to predict Nintendo's moves, saying "these constraints are less important than hardware compatibility" is very different from "there are no constraints."

Trying to game out the SOC performance based on the thermal and battery profile of the OG Switch because "there is no reason to change the formfactor" is a self fulfilling idiocy. There is a reason, you're staring it in the face - the SOC performance and the thermal and battery profile of the hardware. Game it out. How much would you get by breaking compatibility? What would it cost you? Is it worth it? Do you think your analysis is Nintendo's analysis? Have you considered the processing demands of Unannounced Gimmick and how that might affect Nintendo's plans?

I think that's a worthwhile discussion.
Click to expand...
I’d bet my avatar again that the new hardware will come with a completely redesigned dock.

I kind of want to include “it also won’t fit the old dock”

I half expect no dock with some new way of connecting …but let’s not get too crazy
 
0
NintendoMariah said:
Can I ask the dumbest question.

Will they most likely use the original dock so that we can put both the switches in or will it need a new dock for technical reasons??
Click to expand...
We just don't know right now. We do know that it wouldn't be possible to output 4K video from the original Dock. In theory, the Dock with LAN Port (the one that comes with OLED Model) should have sufficient ventilation and be able to output 4K60 HDR, so they could reuse it, or at least allow the new console to interop with it, but we don't know for certain.

Personally I think it's likely but not certain that the Dock will either be the same, or electronically the same if the shell changes, but it depends on what Nintendo values. If they want to push 8K or 4K120 in any capacity, Dock with LAN Port won't cut it, and there are possible branding reasons for them to design a new dock if the logo has changed and it's no longer a "Nintendo Switch system", branding wise.
 
Concernt said:
It is and it isn't. It's the same code but it's not the same COPY, if that makes sense. There were three ways to deal with the Home Menu's RAM consumption on 3DS. You could disable "applets" like the browser, Miiverse, etc., you could force the user to load in and out of the Home Menu every time they hit the HOME button, or you can dump the entire OS, and reboot the system into an OS included in the game itself.

Games like Smash Bros. and USUM/SM did exactly this (except on NEW 3DS models where none of these tricks were necessary). When you open them, the system restarts completely to let it load its own custom OS. It uses your themes, and your icons, but it's not the same. The applet icons can't merely not be launched, they're dummies to begin with. As far as the CPU is concerned, it's not running the OS anymore, it's running the game on bare metal, and the game is faking the Home Menu for the user. The hallmark of this approach is when you launch software that uses it, the screens will go blank for a moment and the speakers, if volume is turned up, will click, BUT ALSO, if you launch ANY OTHER application or game from this "fake" Home Menu, the system has to reboot to get OUT of the custom OS and back into the normal one that most software uses and expects.

It was extremely weird. And again, this is the same approach Wii Home Menu took. The Wii Home Menu looks the same across all games, and that was mandated, but it didn't ACT the same, and the only way for Nintendo to 'update' the Wii Home Menu was to put it on the disk with the game. It was literally a menu in the game that could perform system actions, which Nintendo mandated to use the same design.

3DS games pulling this trick had more hurdles, of course, since they had to make sure that their bespoke implementations of the OS and Home menu to shave off precious megabytes didn't break the moment a new Home Menu update was distributed. I'm not privy to how they dealt with that, but deal with that they did!
Click to expand...
That still the normal OS. It just can't change the memory allocations without rebooting.

Memory layout - 3dbrew

www.3dbrew.org www.3dbrew.org
 
Concernt said:
I used Labo VR for a couple hours, and a 720p panel that close to my eyes was... Perfectly fine for what it was.

Plus, the effective resolution of PSVR 1 was 1080p, and that was considered "premium VR" for a time.
Click to expand...
8” is too big for a HMD at that resolution. Pixel density would be awful. PSVR was 1080p but it was two inches smaller diagonally.
 
Concernt said:
What if the new 7.91" panel IS the new HMD?
Click to expand...
Then they've done bad. Head-mounted screens ought to be small. Looks like the Quest 2 screen is about the size of Switch Lite's. Except it's 3664x1920.
Concernt said:
Plus, the effective resolution of PSVR 1 was 1080p, and that was considered "premium VR" for a time.
Click to expand...
In the same way that Switch was once cutting edge mobile graphics tech. But you wouldn't want to release it today.
 
Seven said:
I hope that 8 inch screen rumor is false because that is way too cumbersome and hefty for a handheld.
Click to expand...
I really would prefer a 7 inch screen. The OLED form factor is so sleek. I wouldn't even care if it was 720p again. Best case outcome is razor thin bezels and only a slight size increase.

e. I guess we can always hope that a pro/oled model comes out in the future haha....
 
Last edited:
Discostew said:
Difference between GB and GiB. Storage is sold in GB (base-10), but actual storage, including file system size, is in GiB (base-2). 1 Gigabyte is equal to (10^9) / (2^30) gibibytes (or 1 GB = 0.93132257461548 GiB).

512 * 0.93132257461548 ~= 476.837

Switch's internal storage is 32GB (really ~29GiB), and with only the OS on internal storage, it's 26GiB, so the OS is really only about 3GiB in size.
Click to expand...
Unless there is some new counting system I'm not familiar with, the 512 GB storage potentially going into the Switch 2 will only have 476 available after the file system. You are pointing our the current Switch OS is taking up only 3GB with 26 Available. I'm just saying I'm not expecting it to only be 3GB for the successor and they will definately allocate more space for social features like video, profile, and lock out OS space for future updates like themes and whatever they wish to do.

As noted I rounded down
 
0
Hermii said:
As I understand it, the OFA is pretty much desktop ampere. Which might actually be a good thing for this device.

Lovelace OFA is significantly bigger, takes up more transistors and die space compared to Ampere's which for a handheld device that frame generation probably wouldn't be useful on anyway can be a bad thing.
Click to expand...
Iirc it's bigger than Desktop Ampere by a notable marign.

So, it's between the two. Also Frame Gen even at 60fps could work as long as it's consistent. And considering this system may be more CPU Constrained than the next-gen boys (although NVRT may be more CPU friendly as it can shoulder more of the load), anything helps.
 
Multiverse said:
I’m sorry but I just have to butt in. There are plenty of switch games that are visually stunning. He seems to be the type that sees a piece of turd to be “visually stunning” as long as it runs at 4K methinks. It is quite bothersome because that ad specifically has no intention of demeaning the switch. The uploader confirmation bias kicking in really hard.

Also this is a job ad. Y’all want them to be say, “please come and work at these crappy looking games”? “your contribution will shape the OLD generation of games”?
Click to expand...
Plus this IS NLG, whose work on Luigi's Mansion 3 was many things, but "crappy looking" isn't even on the bottom 1000 of that list.
 
eye0h said:


Well we will likely have our first cross gen games announced in 4 days lol. Wonder if we'll be able to tell based on how the game looks lol. "Too big for switch" DF video incoming?
Click to expand...

I mean if Game Freak's PS5 game can be announced way in advance, I bet they could stealth drop a look at a Pokemon game with next gen graphics without so much as mentioning a title or a date. Sort of a "plans for the future" sort of deal.
 
Last edited:
KeijiKG said:
I mean if Game Freak's PS5 game can be announced 3 years from now, I bet they could stealth drop a look at a Pokemon game with next gen graphics without so much as mentioning a title or a date. Sort of a "plans for the future" sort of deal.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that be CGI like most of their live action reels, though? I don't think we'd legitimately able to tell them apart, let alone assume them as next gen footage.
 
Well, if the Switch 2 is coming in autumn 2024, the September Direct is probably going to be the last normal Direct of the Switch era. The next presentation after that will feature Switch 2 games.

It's exciting and kinda sad at the same time. This system has been around for most of my teenage years and the entirety of my adult life. I don't think the next console will have the same impact on me.
 
Sol said:
www.engadget.com

Why Baldur’s Gate III is an accidental PS5 console exclusive

Larian is having trouble fitting Baldur’s Gate III on the Xbox Series S, the lower-priced and lower-powered console in Microsoft’s ninth-generation lineup. Microsoft requires games to run equally on the Xbox Series X and Series S. With Baldur’s Gate III, this parity rule means the game will be...
www.engadget.com www.engadget.com

Developers trying to get Series S launch requirement dropped. The console's limited amount of RAM is already proving to be a frustrating issue for developers, and we're not even halfway through this console generation.

Hope Nintendo is taking notes. Go big with 16 GB or go home.
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly Larian was specifically saying they were challenged in doing couch split screen co-op. Not that it wasn’t running on Series S.

They can release whatever they want on a hypothetical Switch 2. That being said, Switch + couch co-op are a perfect match.
 
epicmartin7 said:
So dumb question. How was this sort of thing ever developed?

image.png
Click to expand...

It’s a simple mechanical switch. So no compromised software etc was needed. Guess it’s handy for a game night when you don’t want to fiddle with the card slot of the Switch in the dock. For me that was the main reason to go all digital. Newer had the urge with the 3DS.
 
eye0h said:
S/V DLC is out in Fall and Early Next year. They are announcing new Gen 5 related games in this presents (Riddler Khu has been talking about it for a while, most reliable leaker of all time, also the most annoying). Those games would probably release in Holiday 2024 because logic. Switch 2 is releasing H2 next year. If they are announcing the games now they would be on switch. If they come out Holiday 2024 they would probably push them for Switch 2. My conclusion = cross gen
Click to expand...
Nah they not revealing the gen 5 remakes in this presents.

Earliest it’ll happen will be on the February 27th presents.
 
TLZ said:
What if...

The 8" can be folded so people wouldn't complain about its size when not in use? Unfold and it looks like one complete bezeless screen like those Samsung phones.

This way you'll have joycon rails on all sides, except the top and bottom right parts where all the inputs/outputs go, so you can have 3/DS support and slick look too.

I don't know how much a foldable screen costs though.
Click to expand...
The screen's durability could be a more pressing issue than the price for a hybrid console, and I say this as the owner of a Samsung flip. The screen is very soft, and the protector can be dented with a fingernail if you aren't careful and needs to be replaced every year or two when it starts to peel.
The hinge also takes up quite a bit of space and divides the device in two, so sacrifices would probably have to be made internally, which is why the flip has such a mediocre battery life compared to similarly-priced flagships.
 
Ars2439 said:
The screen's durability could be a more pressing issue than the price for a hybrid console, and I say this as the owner of a Samsung flip. The screen is very soft, and the protector can be dented with a fingernail if you aren't careful and needs to be replaced every year or two when it starts to peel.
The hinge also takes up quite a bit of space and divides the device in two, so sacrifices would probably have to be made internally, which is why the flip has such a mediocre battery life compared to similarly-priced flagships.
Click to expand...
Ah thanks for the info.

Fuhgeddaboudit.
 
0
Dakhil said:
Unfortunately no.

But I think expecting the OFA on Orin's GPU to be faster than the OFA on consumer Ampere GPUs is a reasonable assumption to make since autonomous driving benefits greatly from faster optical flow.

And Drake's GPU's confirmed to inherit the OFA from Orin's GPU.
Click to expand...
I wonder why they would keep Orins OFA (if it's Indeed much larger). If frame generation is out of the picture anyway, why wouldn't they want Ampere's OFA? Like they went with desktop amperes tensor cores, where Orin tensor cores might actually have an advantage. But they kept Orins OFA, where it would have slim to non advantage (unless. they include a camera)
 
Last edited:


Cryptic Emoji guy says Nintendo Switch Online won’t be called Nintendo Switch Online ‘sooner or later’. This could just be brand futureproofing, changing a name better fit what they offer but a new console brand is more fun in my brain.
 
eye0h said:


Cryptic Emoji guy says Nintendo Switch Online won’t be called Nintendo Switch Online ‘sooner or later’. This could just be brand futureproofing, changing a name better fit what they offer but a new console brand is more fun in my brain.
Click to expand...

I think they will change it back to Nintendo Network. Or maybe call it Nintendo REDACTED Online.
 
Last edited:
I think Switch 2 BC will play all Switch games only in it's lock original target power. No free patches here. Future time Nintendo will be selling Switch games Deluxe version to use full of Switch 2 power.
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
Last edited:


Back
Top Bottom