I mean, you're not doing anything wrong, you're playing the game! It's not like there are settings to tweak. If you're seeing worse performance than folks in YT videos are getting, then I would make sure you've got the day 1 patch (assuming you're physical).I have no idea what I'm doing wrong
I suspect we've already seen the impact in Nintendo's much higher R&D investments over the last few years. Nintendo is definitely financing the design of the chip, unlike last time. Big upfront costs when a company has a lot of liquid cash are easy to amortize. In other words, Nintendo can afford to make the R&D investment back over the lifetime of REDACTED, spread over both hardware and video games sold. That has only a tiny impact on the price of products.Doesn't the fact that the TX1 was not designed specifically for Nintendo while its successor for the next Switch will be necessarily imply a significant price increase compared to the advantageous conditions they were able to obtain at the time? And if so, to what extent will this cost increase impact the price of the Switch's successor?
~This is speculation territory. So proceed with caution.~Macronix plans to release 96-layer 3D Nand Flash for the game console manufacturer this year.
旺宏3D Nand 96層產品今年可放量 主供遊戲機業-MoneyDJ理財網
旺宏(2337)今年雖面臨大環境消費景氣差,持續減產,但在研發進度以及研發費用上,公司則未縮手,公司目前新產品的開發如進度進行,3D Nand flash 96層產品已陸續給客戶sample,主攻遊戲機產業,等對方驗證後,...www.moneydj.com
Also fair, though if TX1+ is any indication, short of a hardware mod, T239 should be fairly secure.Or if Nvidia fucks up their security.
I know the carts being capable of UFS 3.1 speeds does not mean Nintendo will have them run at that speed, but if this turns out to be for Redacted Carts there is no way they stick to EMMC and microsd for internal and external media.~This is speculation territory. So proceed with caution.~
Assuming Macronix's 96-layer 3D NAND is comparable to Intel SSD 665p, then Macronix's 96-layer 3D NAND could be capable of up to 2 GB/s of sequential read speeds, which is comparable to UFS 3.0/3.1.
There's also a rumour from a couple of years ago that Nintendo's sampling Macronix's 48-layer 3D NAND. And assuming Macronix's 48-layer 3D NAND is comparable to Samsung's PM953, then Macronix's 48-layer 3D NAND could be capable of up to 1 GB/s of sequential read speeds, which is comparable to UFS 2.1/2.2.
Good catch, @ReddDreadtheLead!
That's a tricky question, because Reflex is a tricky technology. I'm not 100% sure that what Reflex does would make sense in any context other than DirectX 12. Nvidia is responsible for the low-level graphics API on Switch, so if it makes sense, I feel pretty good that it will be there. Whether or not games take advantage of that technology is a different question.How likely is it for Nintendo to use Nvidia Reflex on Drake to reduce the system's input latency? The Switch is a pretty laggy system, which is pretty disappointing considering the high amount of old-school, skill-based games on the platform.
my bet is zero. stuff like Reflex is a bandaid for the fact that the game is running on a pc and can't be developed for fixed hardwareHow likely is it for Nintendo to use Nvidia Reflex on Drake to reduce the system's input latency? The Switch is a pretty laggy system, which is pretty disappointing considering the high amount of old-school, skill-based games on the platform.
Mm, I wouldn’t be so sure with the Single core. I remember that Alex from DF in the Gotham Knights video said that the CPU closest to the current gen consoles is the Ryzen 3600 running at 4GHz. It’s 6 cores with 12 threads that run higher, but the PS5 used only has 6.5 cores available and clocked several hundred megahertz lower. He said the Ryzen 3600 is the closest they can do to get to the PS5 “real world” performance. I didn’t use a different CPU for good reason besides the one they mentioned for comparison at DF!Good catch, @ReddDreadtheLead!
It's a single data point, but here is a representative comparison with a Zen 2 CPU.
https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/compare/1322044?baseline=1292153
We see that Zen 2 over performs per clock, relative to the A78s, and underperforms per thread. That's roughly what we've seen elsewhere, but both differences seem to be exaggerated. While it's a little more pessimistic than earlier, it's not way out of line. I expect multithreaded performance to improve even more on REDACTED, because of the single cluster.
For shits and giggles, here is against a Jaguar CPU, like the ones in the last gen consoles. This tends to confirm my biases - when it comes to 3rd party current-gen games, single core performance is going to be the big bottleneck on REDACTED, but when it comes to exclusives and miracle ports, you can't just look at the GPU numbers and say "oh, it's just last gen."
everyone marveling at the little details in Zelda. kinda reminds me of Half Life Alyx's bottles in a way. I kinda doubt this is taking up so much processing power, but it does make me excited to see what the team can do with better hardware
As likely as the next iPhone is to be an Apple Pipin, I'd say.I'm starting to think we'll be pleasantly surprised by the new hardware, in quite a few ways. It's got me convinced that this isn't just gonna be a more powerful or more advanced switch but a brand newish idea that they don't want their competitors to ape so the ninjas got shit on lockdown. Physical media will still be present but there be an all digital version methinks too with increased storage. The OS will remain relatively simple. Old controllers will only work for older games that are BC. They'll want to sell new accessories so new Joycons and such.
Mm, I wouldn’t be so sure with the Single core. I remember that Alex from DF in the Gotham Knights video said that the CPU closest to the current gen consoles is the Ryzen 3600 running at 4GHz. It’s 6 cores with 12 threads that run higher, but the PS5 used only has 6.5 cores available and clocked several hundred megahertz lower. He said the Ryzen 3600 is the closest they can do to get to the PS5 “real world” performance. I didn’t use a different CPU for good reason besides the one they mentioned for comparison at DF!
Actually I’ll find the video in which he compared it and the time stamp.
@ 1:44
The biggest difference is really the really small L3 cache that the PS5 and Series consoles have relative to their PC counterpart, lower core count and higher frequency. But the L3 is really a big one.
Only using the 3600 I found on GB6 I’d get that in the single core, it is 370.9 per GHz, while the ORIN example mentioned above is 436.36 per GHz (it is clocked to 1.98GHz).
My takeaway from it is that, Nvidia has a good implementation of the ARM cores and Nintendo will have that comfortable system upgrade and have a solid enough Single Core still, but wil clearly be outclassed in the MT department for clear reasons if the software is made to use it to the best way possible.
And we know games don’t always see a lot of an increase from SMT, so it’ll be dependent on the title.
I’d say, Drake can be 60% of the performance unlike, what, 20-30% that switch was vs the PS4/X1? Makes ports easier though people shouldn’t expect everything, more or less the same.
Okay, yeah, that's closer to the Geekbench 5 numbers I was looking at too. Neat!Mm, I wouldn’t be so sure with the Single core. I remember that Alex from DF in the Gotham Knights video said that the CPU closest to the current gen consoles is the Ryzen 3600 running at 4GHz. It’s 6 cores with 12 threads that run higher, but the PS5 used only has 6.5 cores available and clocked several hundred megahertz lower. He said the Ryzen 3600 is the closest they can do to get to the PS5 “real world” performance. I didn’t use a different CPU for good reason besides the one they mentioned for comparison at DF!
I don't think 96-layer 3D NAND is really considered cutting edge technology, considering Micron, Samsung, and SK hynix already released 176-layer 3D NAND, and YMTC already released 232-layer 3D NAND.I know the density improvements from moving to 96 layer NAND will make larger carts less expensive in the long term, and this is probably a good part of the reason why, but Nintendo are wizards at fitting their software into tiny filesizes anyway so I can't see it being the only motivation.
Nintendo are one of the few if not the only remaining customer who needs this kind of cutting edge NAND tech so you can bet they subsidised the r and d to make it happen.
The issue is that those use all cores, consoles don’t dedicate all cores for games. Part of those cores are taken up by the OS. It’s why he used 6 physical cores to compare rather than 8 and attempt to deduct from it to a range.I like to think that the series/ps5 cpu equivalent is the ryzen 7 4700g.
Ryzen 7 4700g
8cores/16 threads
zen 2
3.6-4.4ghz
512kb L1 Cache
4mb L2 Cache
8mb L3 cache
how would that change performance numbers based off what you calculated?
I don't think 96-layer 3D NAND is really considered cutting edge technology, considering Micron, Samsung, and SK hynix already released 176-layer 3D NAND, and YMTC already released 232-layer 3D NAND.
But that being said, one aspect that sets Macronix apart from Samsung, SK hynix, and YMTC is that Macronix focuses on longetivity and durability for Macronix's memory chips, which I imagine is the reason Nintendo has worked with Macronix since the release of the SNES. And Macronix's XtraROM used for the Nintendo Switch Game Cards have a life cycle of 20 years at 85°C.
Dumb question, but are we sure (assuming this is even Switch 2-related) this would this be for the game cartridges and not the internal storage?~This is speculation territory. So proceed with caution.~
Assuming Macronix's 96-layer 3D NAND is comparable to Intel SSD 665p, then Macronix's 96-layer 3D NAND could be capable of up to 2 GB/s of sequential read speeds, which is comparable to UFS 3.0/3.1.
There's also a rumour from a couple of years ago that Nintendo's sampling Macronix's 48-layer 3D NAND. And assuming Macronix's 48-layer 3D NAND is comparable to Samsung's PM953, then Macronix's 48-layer 3D NAND could be capable of up to 1 GB/s of sequential read speeds, which is comparable to UFS 2.1/2.2.
You must be new hereThis thread is certainly interesting to say the least I'll tell you that lmao
Someone should archive this thread and review it when the successor does come out. We will meticulously analyze which person in the thread was closest to what actually happens with the successor. Winner gets a free trip to Nintendo Land (I'm serious).You must be new here
Digital only baybeeeeeeeeeeeeeee$14 for a 32GB Switch cart is actually brutal. Have to think Nintendo is trying to figure out how to avoid these costs next gen as 32GB and 64GB games become more and more common.
Digital only baybeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
we dont know if Nintendo is gonna charge $70 for they games next gen, Tears of the Kingdom was charged $70 because of the game massive size, the game needed a 32GB cartdridge$14 for a 32GB Switch cart is actually brutal. Have to think Nintendo is trying to figure out how to avoid these costs next gen as 32GB and 64GB games become more and more common.
I missed this, but what's your source on 14$?$14 for a 32GB Switch cart is actually brutal. Have to think Nintendo is trying to figure out how to avoid these costs next gen as 32GB and 64GB games become more and more common.
I think they may do a fully digital SKU at some point, maybe after launch. Could save on space (although not really much) also. A nice bonus for them is that they'll get more control over pricing too, probably more cut of the profit too. Not great for us as consumers but oh well I suppose.I think it has to be under some consideration right now for bigger games that won't fit on a 16 GB cart.
Modern NAND chips are typically laid out in 3 dimensions, with a bunch of layers of cells stacked on top of one another.So what is a layer of nand?
Does it affect storage speed or capacity?
Edit: and how layers are current switch cartridges?
Historically, I don't think Macronix has been Nintendo's supplier of the internal storage, but I believe they do sell normal flash, too.Dumb question, but are we sure (assuming this is even Switch 2-related) this would this be for the game cartridges and not the internal storage?
we dont know if Nintendo is gonna charge $70 for they games next gen, Tears of the Kingdom was charged $70 because of the game massive size, the game needed a 32GB cartdridge
I missed this, but what's your source on 14$?
It's the price for the current 32GB card, and it's from @NateDrake in a different thread entirely.I missed this, but what's your source on 14$?
The renderer doesn't like transparency, and struggles with post processing effects, so I see frame dips in rain, when turning on Ultrahand, but most commonly when climbing trees - the giant transparency of the foliage covers the whole screen and frame rate chugs. If you get on a sky island, you're not in a tree, and you don't have ultrahand on, and you're seeing 20fps, then that sounds like you're missing the patch.
Outside of the Nintendo Switch Game Cards, and going by Macronix's website (here and here), Macronix doesn't seem to be providing NAND flash with >64 Gb (8 GB) in terms of density.Dumb question, but are we sure (assuming this is even Switch 2-related) this would this be for the game cartridges and not the internal storage?
That's a lot more than I would have guessed.It's the price for the current 32GB card, and it's from @NateDrake in a different thread entirely.
The price also differs for third-party partners -- it's higher. The pricing is slightly old (from late last yr) and could be a dollar or two less now; but that gives a good idea of cost.That's a lot more than I would have guessed.
I'm surprised by that. Nintendo, as platform holder, should just take the extra costs themselves or reduce their physical share and sell for a lesser or equal price for 3rd-party partners. That would incentivize ports of games which wouldn't release on such due to storage concerns.The price also differs for third-party partners -- it's higher. The pricing is slightly old (from late last yr) and could be a dollar or two less now; but that gives a good idea of cost.
prices are reasonable, but you're not getting a major improvement over last gen. the 4060Ti is pretty meager compared to my 3060Ti. it would have been more worth if it had 10GB or 12GB or somethingSomewhat late to the party, but the 4060 prices are reasonable.
Orin launched 20 months after the 3090. Drake launching in a similar window after Lovelace, with GPU prices seeming to be falling back within historical norms - obviously the node decision was made a while back, but I can't see a reason for 5nm-class to be a problem.
99% will have overestimated REDACTED Power.Someone should archive this thread and review it when the successor does come out. We will meticulously analyze which person in the thread was closest to what actually happens with the successor. Winner gets a free trip to Nintendo Land (I'm serious).
?????. I concede on the Wii U, which was much weaker than anticipated. But Wii and Switch??? Nope. I'd argue both systems outperformed their performance expectations before launch. A lot of us are guessing with NGH, some guesses might be off, others be right. We're in uncharted territory.99% will have overestimated REDACTED Power.
Just like with Switch and Wii U and Wii.
I disagree; I'd say it's reasonable to expect that Redrakted will be a huge leap in power compared to the Switch. Most of us here expect it to be somewhere between PS4/PS4 Pro and the Xbox Series S.99% will have overestimated REDACTED Power.
Just like with Switch and Wii U and Wii.
People found it hard to believe Wii would be so little change from GameCube (less than two duct taped together), and early bullshots like Red Steel's didn't help. Switch, there was a lot of assumption that Nintendo would be getting some customized version of TX1 better for their needs, until... it wasn't.?????. I concede on the Wii U, which was much weaker than anticipated. But Wii and Switch??? Nope. I'd argue both systems outperformed their performance expectations before launch.
Ehh I don't know how anyone would have gotten the Wii correct. Most were completely blindsided by what happened, particularly considering early dev of the the GC successor and related rumors were for a more powerful device. As far as the Switch, it's final clocks definitely came in lower that what many were hoping/guessing. And you definitely had a contingent of people hoping for/expecting the X2/16nm?????. I concede on the Wii U, which was much weaker than anticipated. But Wii and Switch??? Nope. I'd argue both systems outperformed their performance expectations before launch.
Regardless of which bottleneck you're hitting first, more frames is more frames.prices are reasonable, but you're not getting a major improvement over last gen. the 4060Ti is pretty meager compared to my 3060Ti. it would have been more worth if it had 10GB or 12GB or something
and I don't think Frame Gen will be that great here given you're less likely to be cpu limited down here
Nintendo… unless I missed something
So, a 128GB cart? Jesus Christ. Must cost a fortune if ever actually used.
Edit: Wait, no. Does this mean the 32GB cards are at the price similar to the 16GB carts?
Macronix (2337) has continued to reduce production in the face of poor consumption in the general environment this year, but the company has not shrunk in terms of R&D progress and R&D expenses. The company's current development of new products is progressing as planned, and 3D Nand flash 96-layer products have been released to the market one after another. The customer sample is mainly engaged in the game console industry. After the verification of the other party, it is expected to increase in volume this year.
In addition to the 96-layer 3D Nand flash product, the 192-layer product is also progressing smoothly. The goal is to mass-produce it next year. Macronix’s current 3D Nand flash products are mainly used in the game machine industry, and have specific application markets, rather than being related to the world of memory. factory competition.
In addition, Macronix is also developing 3D Nor flash. It needs to achieve high capacity and have good reading quality compared with traditional Nor Flash. It is also making good progress.
Are we seeing a N64 situation?$14 for a 32GB Switch cart is actually brutal. Have to think Nintendo is trying to figure out how to avoid these costs next gen as 32GB and 64GB games become more and more common.
Nintendo? Pffft.I'm surprised by that. Nintendo, as platform holder, should just take the extra costs themselves or reduce their physical share and sell for a lesser or equal price for 3rd-party partners. That would incentivize ports of games which wouldn't release on such due to storage concerns.
I haven't said much in this thread in a while (because of the lack of news mostly), but the last time the gap was discussed Drake was going to find itself too bandwidth limited to realistically match the Series S in gaming scenarios, but thanks to Ampere features and much better RT (as well as the same R&D that somehow got TOTK into the Switch), Drake will actually look and feel like a current gen console in practice. Although the jump between PS4 and PS5 was massive and this console will pay the price for being a handheld going against them, Drake technically already has two of the main gimmicks this generation. Solid state and ridiculously more powerful CPUs. Add it up true raytracing and this thing will kick ass for sure, you can see why it shouldn't be measured with last gen as the baseline for those reasons, especially when DLSS is also a true factor here.I disagree; I'd say it's reasonable to expect that Redrakted will be a huge leap in power compared to the Switch. Most of us here expect it to be somewhere between PS4/PS4 Pro and the Xbox Series S.