Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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Well if people don't buy it then they won't do it. I feel it will happen to pokemon though considering pokemon fans
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I doubt there will be a substantial jump for most of their games, to be honest. It'll mostly be image quality improvements which take a lot less developer time. There should be some pretty exceptions to this, like Mario Kart 10, Xenoblade 4, etc.
Tentacle-tropes
Kremling
They would just have to tough it out & hope that a refresh + a good game or two spurs sales. The DS was this way until the Lite & Nintendogs
Nintendo’s pretty good about budgets so I don’t think there is a real worry unless Furukawa changes the entirety of Nintendo’s business model.
A nintendo ninja
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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Pokémon is already monetised to hell and back.
Remember when Home integration hits, the cost of using Pokémon Scarlet and Violet de-facto increases, and it's bad enough already.
So for the "full" experience in say... Let's go with the worst offender, Sword and Shield (though I love them as games).
60 dollars for the game. 120 for both versions. Add another 30 for the Expansion Pass, times two, that's 180 total. Want Mew? Or to use the Pokéwalker feature? 50 bucks for Pokéball Plus. That's 230 dollars. Now we start with the subscriptions, now I'll go with the cheapest individual options rather than explain how much more expensive it is to pay monthly, but that's 20 a year for NSO, and 15 a year for Pokémon Home. So for ONE YEAR of both games with all features intact, that's 265 dollars! Plus 35 dollars every year after that! It's insane!
If anything I might expect them to tone the monetisation down a bit, and I can see a few ways they could. They could, for instance, with a hypothetical new game:
-release a single version like Legends Arceus and have either all Pokémon available, or have availability determined by in-game decisions.
-give everyone a Mew for linking Pokémon Home to it.
-include Pokémon Home with NSO (or at least NSO+Expansion Pack)
-allow people to "walk" Pokémon either in game or with the Pokémon Home App and the phone's pedometer.
-include DLC with NSO+Expansion Pack.
Doing just one of these things, and they've done similar before, again, Legends Arceus is a stellar mainline game in part because it only has one version with everything, and doesn't require trading or NSO at ALL to get every Pokémon.
I will bet you 100 famicoin that this does not happen.
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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Yeah it would be cool if they toned it down but I have 0 faith in pokemon with the absolute dumpster fire SV were but I'd love to be proven wrong as pokemon was my favorite series
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I used to dislike Pokémon for a while, it got super boring. I don't understand people who like X and Y, Sun and Moon, LGPE, and/or ORAS but not Sword, Shield, Scarlet and Violet. Scarlet is probably my favourite or second favourite Pokémon game already. It's janky, incredibly janky, but one of the most fun Pokémon games out there. It unironically and fully delivers on a truly open world Pokémon game and it's hard to imagine ever going back now. The freedom on offer is on the level of Breath of the Wild and... So is the story!
It's a great game that's less heavily monetised fhan LGPE or SwSh. I really like it.
But... Oh dear. It needed like. A whole extra year in development. It's fun. But it is NOT finished.
That said, more powerful hardware will definitely help it and future Pokémon games double down on this open world concept, with more CPU power and more RAM, that means genuine ramifications for Pokémon gameplay, because it means more Pokémon on screen, further in the distance.
For the first time in a very long time, I'm actually excited for Pokémon's future, at least as far as the mainline goes. They've been improving the mainline games, gameplay wise, for ten years unabated. With the slight stumble of Arceus having better battles and catching than ScVi, but, a less open world and a worse story.
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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It's comical how they released these games and people defended it. I just want better for pokemon all I ask is that they're better in the future
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ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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Why is the switch V2 still around again
OLED is eating into its sales from the looks of it
Like OLED and LITE can work.
I don’t see the V2 having a purpose at, being the weird middle child.
OLED is eating into its sales from the looks of it
Like OLED and LITE can work.
I don’t see the V2 having a purpose at, being the weird middle child.
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Which part is the most disagreeable? Sunsetting V2 and OLED sounds extremely far-fetched me me.
neon
garfield enthusiast
Rn I think the purpose of the v2 is to act as the "Medium sized popcorn". Draws consumers in with its $300 pricepoint instead of settling for a lite, but gets then them to get a oled when they see it's only $50 more.
I would bet that Drake comes out for $399 or $359, v2 gets discontinued, oled gets cut to $299, and lite sustains to continue this in a sense. (Although I think they may decide to go heavy on oled as the budget option for $249ish instead).
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ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I "defend" them as games because they're fun. The fact they released unfinished is inexcusable, though.
Zeroth
No
It's a very known Apple tactic. It is why you see some nonsensical devices being sold: to drive consumers to purchase higher cost versions.
Lancelot
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Ah... Really? I thought it reached the speeds we currently have for those. Well, that basically gives you a 1.4 GB/s difference in I/O reads over the bigger consoles, not bad at all.Dataminers found a reference to "4kdp_preferred_over_usb30" when Nintendo released system update 12.0.0. And the PI3USB30532 chip on the Nintendo Switch and the OLED model does allow all channels to be used for DisplayPort 1.2 (or DisplayPort 1.4 if Nintendo hypothetically used the PI3USB31532 chip*), leaving any USB port(s) run at USB 2.0 speeds since the USB Type-C port does have dedicated USB 2.0 pins. So 4K 60 Hz HDR should theoretically be possible, but don't expect full colour bit support, especially if using DisplayPort 1.2 signals.
* → I found out that the PI3USB3152 chip has been upgraded to support DisplayPort 2.1, which is a pleasant surprise from a hypothetical standpoint.
Only the PlayStation 5's custom NVMe SSD achieves a raw sequential read speed of 5.5 GB/s.
The Xbox Series X|S's NVMe SSD achieves a raw sequential read speed of 2.4 GB/s.
(I don't expect Microsoft to repeal the mandate that any game developed for the Xbox Series X must also work for the Xbox Series S, especially with the Xbox Series S, at the very least, selling as much as the Xbox Series X.)
OP
OP
Lancelot
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Depends, the games are going to take such a massive jump altogether I can see every title costing 50$ million to make and beyond. Nintendo can only do so much for cheapening costs for cutting edge software and long development times, unless we want more potato games in powerful hardware of course.
Lancelot
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I'd want to reminder you not so long time ago, Furukawa shared the budgets they were going to spend for software development, online infrastructure and many things... Software development was given near a billion worth of $, they know what they're doing and are beefing up their studios for a reason. I wouldn't worry about it unless they were technically illiterate beyond repair, but not everyone is Game Freak.
www.nintendo.destructoid.com
Nintendo to invest up to $900 million in expanding game software development
Nintendo plans to spend a hefty amount of its profits, up to $900 million, into expanding game software development.
www.nintendo.destructoid.com
Truno
Koopa
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I'd want to reminder you not so long time ago, Furukawa shared the budgets they were going to spend for software development, online infrastructure and many things... Software development was given near a billion worth of $, they know what they're doing and are beefing up their studios for a reason. I wouldn't worry about it unless they were technically illiterate beyond repair, but not everyone is Game Freak.
Nintendo to invest up to $900 million in expanding game software development
Nintendo plans to spend a hefty amount of its profits, up to $900 million, into expanding game software development.
It's been over a year since this news broke out and the only meaningful developments we've seen related to those investments have been in non-gaming entertainment (although I guess you could consider the expansion of Nintendo's office as a gaming investment that was budgeted within those $900 million).
Perhaps we won't see any meaningful gaming-related updates until the successor arrives
Lancelot
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Of course you won't see anything, these budgets are going for software R&D... Aka, what we know Creatures is doing with 3D modelling right now, explicitly for next gen hardware in that case. They're clearly preparing for this, it's also my main argument to prove this president clearly has new intentions for the direction of the software... Either way, i'm embracing the power-ception in any case.
NintenDuvo
Bob-omb
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it personally wouldnt bother me if Nintendo decides to continue supporting the original Switch alongside Drake for a couple of years, while i would want the better graphics if it means stable framerate then im all for it, i also just badly want a new generation of Switch this year
Lancelot
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The graphical styles are being severely held back in textures and lightning by the limitations already, making such a giant jump and not reimagining their franchises as they always do sounds incredibly boring from every perspective. I don't remember Zelda and Mario looking the same in every generation.
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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I think a 3-tiered approach would be what they do but like an even 3-tiered approach, the apple way.
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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Yeah but I think you're underestimating "image quality" here, We can get better meshes, textures, resolution, lighting and possibly frame rates. And if the switch 2 is around PS4/pro levels that opens up possibilities like having elden ring on switch
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
No offense taken.
I did not suggest you pulled them from air, I was genuinely curious about your source
Orin, running 8CPUs @1Ghz and 12SMs @ 660Mhz, with a memory bus @ 3199Mhz draws 25W of power. Drake to run at 4.2W of power in the same configuration would be 6x power efficiency increase, across the board, for the GPU and CPU.
Lovelace, which runs on 5nm and uses the same FLCG as Drake, is only 2x more efficient than Ampere. This level of improvement is not physically possible on any node that currently exists. Nvidia making an ARM CPU this efficient, even on 3nm, would immediately make them the dominant mobile CPU manufacturer, leaving Apple so far in the dust it would upend the entire market.
If you are correct, and these tests refer to the target power draw of the device, then the GPU clocks are in no way correlated with those numbers,
If the power draw and the clock numbers are correlated, then the power draw numbers matching the Switch is a coincidence.
you tend to not see such investments bear fruit for a while. a lot of that goings into stuff you don't traditionally see anyway like building expansions, hirings, R&D, etc
Lancelot
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I'm sincerely just looking forward to Nintendo games being rightfully considered in the "High performance console segment" again that entities like the FTC argue them to be out. The franchises are finally retaining their thrones as the technologically competent and ambitious titles they willingly decided to stop making because of reasons, we're still getting gameplay innovations driven by power and content that has nothing to envy to the other two graphically. This is why this console is so exciting for me, many others are probably looking at it this way.
Truno
Koopa
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Wanting Nintendo games to look like Horizon is something that I cannot agree with. Those games are way too busy
I'd love to see studio expansions, ton of new hires, acquisitions of long-time partners, bigger budgets for smaller franchises, revivals, etc...
But yeah, you're probably right
I'd love to see studio expansions, ton of new hires, acquisitions of long-time partners, bigger budgets for smaller franchises, revivals, etc...
But yeah, you're probably right
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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This purely depends on the release window for this console (IMO) if it releases late 2024 then it's already years behind and Nintendo will be behind again like usual. The switch 2 needs to release sooner rather than later for Nintendo to be seen as they were back in the N64 days
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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The power draw of a device and the frequency of its GPU DO have a correlation, though. To say they don't is just objectively incorrect. A prime example being... The Switch. Which has a lower GPU frequency when it consumes 4W. With little context to go off, my interpretation of this data is more or less "When the device consumes 4.2W, the target GPU clock speed will be this.". Something we know developers work with already. For Switch. When a device consumes a fixed amount of power, the GPU can only use a portion of that. No more than the total consumption minus the consumption of all other components.
Again, I am not arguing these are what numbers it will do, but rather that they ARE relevant, as opposed to wholly irrelevant and shouldn't be discarded off-hand.
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Lancelot
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To be fair, the 2024 launch window is possibly getting another die shrink by default to further increase the clocks. So really, it's not even all that behind considering Series S is already kinda in the line of fire as it is. No matter when it's coming, this is their gateway back to the N64/GC days, but you know... Actually having success.
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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- He
I don't see that happening even if there is a die shrink by then which allows the clocks to theoretically be higher they won't clock the chip higher. Also a die shrink and a bit of a higher clock will still leave them behind at the rate technology is starting to speedup again
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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Which Lovelace are you referring to here? Also, which way of efficient do you mean? The do more at the same, or at the same it draws less?
Lancelot
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I don't think anyone will care, it's still admittedly a better choice over the budget home console that is already holding the gen back as it is. Heck, they did make BOTW for a Wii U, giving them such a machine is an invitation to come back even if it's not powerful enough for the next gen consoles. Nobody cares still, because we'll never get a handheld like this to beat those machines (plot twist: It doesn't need to). As long as it compares to Series S at best, it's the only machine they'll ever need for the next 7 years.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
The consumer GPU. Nvidia says 2x more power efficient iso performance.
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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Obviously most people won't care but that's not what in saying. I'm arguing that if it releases late Nintendo won't be considered in the high performance range which was YOUR point.
ReddDreadtheLead
#TeamLate2025WithAPotentialForEarly2026
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Ah, funnily enough, despite what they are rated at the cards perform well under their TDPs.
4090 for example is rated for 450W, and from what I saw it actually hovers around…360-380w… lol
Actually when set up so it targets a lower draw, it loses I think 5% performance at 350-400w or so.
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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I don't see it launching any later than 2023, personally. I have hope!
Lancelot
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Except it's already IN the high performance range. It's definitely going to run everything from the Gen 9 with only compromises in resolution and pop in at best, the only reason they keep saying that it's because it doesn't have a half of the catalog of the PS4/One (including no COD or GTA). This is the best comeback they could ever make in this form factor, and again... It does compare to Series S with all the tricks under its sleeve.
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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I'm on the 2023 train as well!
I'm done here. you clearly are just glossing over what I'm saying.
D
Deleted member 887
Guest
Which is why I wouldn't say it.
I get it, but my point is that "with little context to go off" that we don't have enough context to make any useful conclusion.
The specific conclusion you're making, is a totally reasonable interpretation of the data - except with more context. With more context, we know that it's impossible for Drake to draw that little power with GPU clock speeds at that level. So it must mean something else.
The question is, can we conclude what it means without more context than we currently have? I say that we cannot.
I am not saying they are wholly irrelevant. I'm saying that without more data what they mean is impossible to lock down, and we can't make confident predictions without more data. Without more context.
Lancelot
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I can't wait to see your face (and many others) when Mario Kart 10 and Mario EAD are shown for Drake officially, and they'll look more next gen than almost every "next gen" game we've seen to date besides glaring exceptions, while funnily enough... They'll both run on Drake.
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Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
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At least we agree on that last point.
But you did contradict yourself a bit on the first point, since you said they weren't correlated, for some reason. So did you say it, or would you never say it?
I feel the need to apologise because I think I've misunderstood you somewhere along the way, but I would definitely appreciate some clarity.
Truno
Koopa
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After the lack of announcement of an NVIDIA product using T239 today, I can understand why some people are now hopeful for a 2023 launch.
However, after Digital Foundries comments, Mochizuki's backing of those comments, and NateDrake's claims of "hardware for H1 of 2023 being cancelled", I cannot remain on the 2023 train anymore.
There's literally no one corroborating these rumors. The author of the articles related to devkits for Nintendo hardware that we've been using as supporting argument for an imminent release is quite literally saying that those reports are now obsolete. The only insider that was active in these discussions flat out said that the hardware they've been discussing has been cancelled. The group that correctly reported on Switch rumors prior to release and covered the OLED situation flawlessly have stated that they've heard nothing about a 2023 release. And yet, it seems that T239's client is only Nintendo? The evidence that we have points towards T239 being done and about to start production. How the hell has no one heard anything?
I really hope we get a piece of investigative journalism on this whole Switch 2/Pro timeline once the next console is actually out. The developments have been so bizarre
However, after Digital Foundries comments, Mochizuki's backing of those comments, and NateDrake's claims of "hardware for H1 of 2023 being cancelled", I cannot remain on the 2023 train anymore.
There's literally no one corroborating these rumors. The author of the articles related to devkits for Nintendo hardware that we've been using as supporting argument for an imminent release is quite literally saying that those reports are now obsolete. The only insider that was active in these discussions flat out said that the hardware they've been discussing has been cancelled. The group that correctly reported on Switch rumors prior to release and covered the OLED situation flawlessly have stated that they've heard nothing about a 2023 release. And yet, it seems that T239's client is only Nintendo? The evidence that we have points towards T239 being done and about to start production. How the hell has no one heard anything?
I really hope we get a piece of investigative journalism on this whole Switch 2/Pro timeline once the next console is actually out. The developments have been so bizarre
Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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- He
Lol
MP!
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Kazuyamishima
Moblin
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