Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
-
Hey everyone, staff have documented a list of banned content and subject matter that we feel are not consistent with site values, and don't make sense to host discussion of on Famiboards. This list (and the relevant reasoning per item) is viewable here.
StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)
- Thread starter Dakhil
- Start date
Just caught up with the past several pages. This tweet doesn't seem like a leak to me. The tweets immediate above and below this one suggest it being a speculation. I also don't believe that the person is a source worthy of attention, as evident by a timeline peppered with gems like this (machine translated; source):
"If there is evidence that the Chinese military will absolutely violate international law by attacking Japan's nuclear power plants, the only option Japan can take is to arm itself with nuclear weapons and carry out a preemptive nuclear attack on China. There is no choice but to destroy China before it launches another attack."
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I retract.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh my god
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There is no God, in my ignorance I killed Him.Oh my god
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
LiC
Member
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
With the power of friendship and a fancy sword?
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
- Pronouns
- She/Her
And my trusty pet Drake! And his 1024 cores of fire!
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Nothing serious, leak wise, just combing over the information that's out there with some interesting results!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Would you dumb it down to like pretend I'm five? Haha.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
- Pronouns
- She/Her
No new info in long while.
Old info still interesting, we talk about old info again and again. Old info still has things we haven't noticed.
Look over there
Bob-omb
Oh, if you're thinking of 'only' 10-15 GB/s sequential read for SSDs, that's... rather near future, actually. PCIe 5.0 drives have been getting announced recently, and by spec, they're supposed to max out at 14 GB/s. Although I think that some of the first generation controllers have trouble getting past 10 GB/s?
If we're talking 8-10 years later, the question is, will we be on PCIe 7, or 8 by then? And each version of PCIe should be a theoretical doubling. So fast forward a decade, if things don't fall apart along the way, we're looking at ~14*4 GB/s or ~14*8 GB/s in theory. And if things derail in the mid term future, well hey, PCIe 6.0 specification was finalized at the beginning of this year. I would expect no less than 6.0 drives by the end of this decade.
(PCIe 7.0's specification is currently expected to be finalized in 2025)
(PCIe 5.0's specification was finalized in 2019; so more than +3 years to get to corresponding SSDs to be announced)
...hmm, continuing on this topic; I wonder how much hotter these drives will get in the future
(cause honestly, the concept of SSDs needing their own heatsinks is still an absurdity to me)
Edit: Why the fuck do so few SSD reviews actually test power draw!? Have any PCIe 4.0 drives broken past the 1 GB/s per watt mark in pure sequential read? It'd be nice if power efficiency kept up (or beat, even) with the increase in raw throughput, cause a future where double digit watts are needed solely for streaming from storage is dumb, damnit.
Last edited:
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
Hosermess
Koopa
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
Concernt
Optimism is non-negotiable
- Pronouns
- She/Her
On the subject of controllers and accessories, I genuinely believe there will be no changes. Just the standard revision we see with this sort of thing, like how OLED Model launched with very slightly revised Joy-Con. Maybe it comes with black Joy-Con, or maybe it comes with grey Joy-Con.
ShaunSwitch
Moblin
OK nobody else said it so I'm going to go ahead and say it.
mariodk18
Install Base Forum Namer
In this Jan 2016 article, Mohuzuki claimed that the NX was likely to launch later that same year due to a source who had knowledge of flat-panel displays:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I seriously do wonder how this is going to play out long-term.
Currently the PS5 uses a custom internal SSD and has a massive cooling for everything including that SSD that gets pretty hot. SX and SS also have appropriate cooking but their SSDs are slower.
So will the next gen consoles be more like the PS5, huge and for cooling all components? Hard to really say at the moment….
I think it’s too early to make that conclusion as a lot of context is missing here.OK nobody else said it so I'm going to go ahead and say it.
That said, power draw isn’t the only limiting factor for a SoC of this kind, but the size of the chip itself relative to the rest of the device cannot be ignored here. Should be bigger than the Van Gogh APU but smaller than the Series S APU.
~8B transistors is a safe estimate based on everything that we know, but SRAM is pretty large on the node.
Or, Nintendo forgoes this, just gets a large SoC and calls it a day.
mariodk18
Install Base Forum Namer
So I've been researching online about UFS cards and uh...are Samsung the only company making these things? They seemingly just announced 4.0, but I can't even seem to find a place to buy any of them online. I assume Nintendo could enter into a deal with Samsung for them (especially if they're the only company making them), kind of like Seagate's cards for XBS.
There's a reason storage is such a huge question mark. Every alternative to what Nintendo is using now has some sort of significant caveat.
With UFS cards, the benefit is that, at least in theory, manufacturing should be able to ramp up very quickly, because it's basically the same as the embedded form of the memory already being manufactured, but with a few extra steps to package into a card. Nintendo would probably want to have some sort of cross promotion deal to start things off, but the market should, in theory, start providing them once things get going.
No, because no one uses them. But anyone could make them should the demand be there
ShaunSwitch
Moblin
Absolutely. I just wanted an excuse to get hyped and drop a meme.I think it’s too early to make that conclusion as a lot of context is missing here.
That said, power draw isn’t the only limiting factor for a SoC of this kind, but the size of the chip itself relative to the rest of the device cannot be ignored here. Should be bigger than the Van Gogh APU but smaller than the Series S APU.
~8B transistors is a safe estimate based on everything that we know, but SRAM is pretty large on the node.
Or, Nintendo forgoes this, just gets a large SoC and calls it a day.
I am making big assumptions that the power figures quoted are target Power consumption values for the SoC, and that the SOC in this table references the one in the leak. Combining this information with what we know of the CUDA Count and CPU Core Count, plus the clocks given in this new info, I don't believe a SoC on 8nm could deliver those clocks, on a 1536 core GPU at those wattages.
Last edited:
mariodk18
Install Base Forum Namer
So I know devs wanted 1 GB/s for PS5/XBS, but what would be the rough equivalent for Drake?
Before I ask anymore questions, how important are write speeds for video games? I assume it would only be used for saving? Do games need to read and write and at the same time? If not, I assume they could use the full-duplex speed?
If they go with SD, is UHS-II full-duplex speed (312 MB/s) fast enough? What about UHS-III (624 MB/s)? But even "just" UHS-II cards seem somewhat expensive (~$50 for 128 GB, ~$100 for 256GB) to me from what I've found on Amazon and not that common? And they seem to cap out at around 250 MB/s read speeds as well, unless you want to spend 3x? for 300 MB/s. And I can't seem to find any UHS-III cards at all, so I guess that's not an option.
But going off of Samsung's website, UFS seems (seemed?) to have been quite a bit more affordable? $59.99 for 256 GB with a max read speed of 500 MB/s, which I'm assuming is/was UFS 1.0/1.1 (doesn't seem to be a difference between the two according to wikipedia) seems like a pretty great deal to me? Would that speed be enough or would they have to go for 3.0 cards (which I assume haven't even been manufactured? On a semi-related note, the voltage is listed as 2.7~3.6V. Is that high for a system that would be running ~7-10 watts in portable mode?
So from my perspective, it seems like UFS is the clear winner here, but there's likely details that I'm no privy to or missing entirely. I feel like if you're going to have consumers spending more for storage on average that it would make more sense to go with a different type (UFS) altogether. Why risk confusing your consumers and have them potentially buy a UHS-I card on accident? And if UHS-II speeds aren't enough and UHS-III doesn't seem to exist at all, isn't UFS all that's left? Unless there's another option that I'm unaware of (I probably am). If it was discussed here, please forgive me for forgetting about it. Oh an thanks to all those answering my sudden plethora of storage related questions.
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
RennanNT
Bob-omb
There's has been multiple discussions about this. SD Express, CFexpress and M2 are also options besides those. Although the later would probably consume too much for it to be selected.
Here's one detailed post about some of these options:
Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation |ST|
I'm on Team UFS BUT If they stick with micro SD they better double or triple the speed at least ... I mean I doubt my current card even hits it's max ever. Every load screen I encounter my kids look at me waiting for me to say "I want a new switch" Im pretty sure this would I actually be more...
famiboards.com
Last edited:
Write speeds aren't too important. Most of the writing is save files which are small. And downloading games.
OP
OP
TSMC’s 3nm Conundrum, Does It Even Make Sense? – N3 & N3E Process Technology & Cost Detailed
Shrinking finally costs more, Moore's Law is now dead in economic terms
www.semianalysis.com
Hosermess
Koopa
Ah cool. Technically I don't think it's really a source if the person just blurts it out at a forum, but I wouldn't be picky if someone decided to do the same this time around.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
- Pronouns
- he/him
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I meant to reply earlier but thank you for the clarification! Seems I got duped from earlier about Nintendo's relation to the SD Association haha
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
kimbo99
Spirit Detective
- Pronouns
- He/him
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
part of the OLED leak came from the Switch's firmware when Aula was found (before it had the name Aula, I think?). folks found that it asking for software pertaining to a different display type
kimbo99
Spirit Detective
- Pronouns
- He/him
I mean moreso the orders made. There was a japanese website I found that had info about a 6.99 inch screen being rodered en masse from Samsung, they then verified that it had to do with a new Switch model. I will see if I can find the website again.
Goodtwin
Like Like
Agree. When lookin at products with similar form factors as the Switch, such as the AYA Neo Air that uses a 5825U APU with a die size of 180mm2, its hard to fathom the next Switch using an SOC larger than that. Assuming the core counts are correct, its pretty much impossible for the SOC to be manufactured on 8nm. When you look at Nvidias current lineup of RTX4* series graphics cards, they have moved on to 4nm and the RTX4050 has a die size of 190mm2 with 3840 cores. Compare that to the RTX3050 on 8nm with a die size of 276mm2 with 2560 cores. At 4nm, 1536 cores would consume about 114mm2 of die space and that at least seems plausible. I do not remember any of the leaks really detailing how many CPU cores there would be, but it seems like everyone assumes eight and im not so sure they wouldn't cut it down to six. Five available A78 CPU cores clocked around 1.25Ghz would be superior to the PS4/Xone in a meaningful way. Games still aren't perfect at distributing the work load across lots of CPU cores and you often see the first few cores maxed out while the remaining cores are at 50%. When push comes to shove, losing a couple of CPU cores in favor of more GPU cores would be the correct move.
ShaunSwitch
Moblin
The 8 CPU Core info came from an Nvidia Linux kernel commit for the SOC that stated "8 CPU Cores in a single cluster." So it's from the horses mouth.
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
Last edited:
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I missed the "make some predictions for next year" a few pages back, and as I have a few minutes free, I figured I'd add a few here, if only to provide a target of ridicule when it's all inevitably wrong.
- Some kind of new Switch model (using Drake) will be revealed at some point next year.
- They'll use third party titles to push the performance improvement, led by Assassin's Creed Mirage, plus a reel of older ports like Elden Ring, Cyberpunk, Metro Exodus, etc. Most first party titles will be "hey, it's Switch games in 4K!", making it clear you can still play almost all of them on existing models.
- They'll spend less time talking about performance than they do talking about some kind of new feature, with my guess being cameras for AR.
- The big Drake exclusive will be a reboot of the absent Nintendo franchise that everyone's been clamouring for... Nintendogs! AR Nintendogs, where you can see your dog running around your real-world home. A selling point will be shared-space AR multiplayer, where your Nintendog can play with another in the real-world, visible on both Switch screens simultaneously.
- We won't know what manufacturing process Drake is made on until after the new model launches, by which point it won't matter.
- They'll discontinue the OLED model shortly after the Drake model launches, retaining the Lite and 2019 Switch as cheaper options.
It doesn't really change things one way or another. Everything currently points to LDPPR5, which on a 128 bit bus gives us 102GB/s. LPDDR5X is theoretically possible, but seems a stretch to me at the moment. I'd expect somewhat lower memory clocks in portable mode than docked either way.
Check the first page Dakhil has been doing an amazing job keeping track of any leaks and possible rumors. Linux kernel has mentioned an 8 core cpu.
~September 2022~
Relevant news:
19 September 2022 → Linux kernel: Nvidia adds T239 support in the Linux kernel and mentions that T239 has eight cores per cluster, which implies T239 using the Cortex-A78C for the CPU as one definite possibility.
kimbo99
Spirit Detective
- Pronouns
- He/him
This was the site I found that referenced a new Nintendo switch in 2021. It provided notes about Samsung screen orders for 699 inch OLED screens.
近々7(6.99)インチの有機EL端末が出るはず
「6.99インチ、公称値では7インチとされるであろう有機EL端末が出る」というだけでどこのメーカーからいつでる…
nokian1865.wordpress.com
LiC
Member
Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.
Hosermess
Koopa
This was the site I found that referenced a new Nintendo switch in 2021. It provided notes about Samsung screen orders for 699 inch OLED screens.
近々7(6.99)インチの有機EL端末が出るはず
「6.99インチ、公称値では7インチとされるであろう有機EL端末が出る」というだけでどこのメーカーからいつでる…
It does look like he had specific screen info a month before, but it doesn't say anything about Nintendo until the day after the Bloomberg article. So he didn't connect the two at the time of his first post.
Last edited:
