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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (Read the staff posts before commenting!)

Why do the Switch OLED devkits have 2 GB more of RAM? 8 GB vs the 6 GB on existing devkits. I know more RAM is welcome for debugging's sake but I was wondering why they'd bother 4 years in, and with no other meaningful difference.
The SDEV also got a bump from 6 GB to 8 GB around the time the ADEV (OLED devkit) was released. As you said, it's just more room for debugging features, both for unoptimized debug builds of the games and for devtools.

As for why bother, I guess, why not? They don't produce all that many devkits so the cost isn't going to be a big deal.

Edit: Actually, the EDEV-D and SDEV-D (where the latter got the 8 GB bump) were released when they switched over to Mariko for devkits, other than the Lite and OLED ones of course. So the SDEV RAM wasn't the only change in that case.
 
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When will we have our oficial prediction 2023 thread?

Everyone can make 6 predicitons.

6 why? Because it’s my lucky number. And we can check it out in December next year.
1. In late January or early February, a Nintendo Switch 2 presentation is teased then the consoled is revealed a few days later in said presentation for 400$. Releases the same day as TOTK
2. Supply chain leaks everywhere confirming some details like the node of the chip and memory type(UFS x.x or eMMC). Nvidia also discuss about the technology powering the Switch 2.
3. Switch OLED goes down to 300$, Red box Switch is discontinued
4. Two weeks after the presentation February direct showcases new games for the Switch and Switch 2 and some Switch 2 enhanced/patched games
5. In March, Nintendo invites journalists to test the Switch 2. And videos of "we have tested the Switch 2" floods youtube
6. Switch 2 has a different U.I but still simplistic and straight forward. Also has other QOL additions such as better connectivity, integrated voice chat, etc
 
On the subject of RAM for the original Switch:

Capture.png


This gigaleak slide from June 2015 shows they were already planning on using 4 GB (although it's bolded, so maybe it was changed recently?). Funnily enough, it also shows they were planning on 16 GB of internal storage at that point. That changed to 32 GB sometime in the next 8-ish months, though.
 
1. January reveal. Part of the Nintendo Switch Family of Systems
2. February Direct.
3. March press event.
4. April 28th release day, two weeks before TOTK just like the Splatoon 3 and Pokémon OLED Models.
5. 720p handheld mode. Same screen, dock, speakers and size as OLED Model. New kickstand. Same OS. 128GB of eMMC memory, but;
12 gigs of LPDDR5 RAM
TSMC 6NM
PS4 Pro before DLSS, targeting PS5 performance afterwards. Not achieving it, but shoot for the stars and hit the moon.
6. Elden Ring, Witcher 3 Complete Edition, etc. announced and released launch window.

I think they will cheap out on the construction with the exception of going almost all metal. Reusing parts where they can. Hinges, screens, docks, chargers, as many chips as they can inside, maybe even some of the cooling assembly. The chip that leaked doesn't look like it's designed down to a price, it looks like it's built to get the most performance Nvidia is capable of in such a small space. They will make concessions elsewhere. Reusing parts that still do what they need them to do just makes sense. Simplifies supply lines. Also an obvious discontinuation of the Redbox Switch, with OLED moving to 299.99. Drake at 399.99 or 449.99. No SKUs other than one (why would they? Never did it for Switches of the same design.)
 
On the subject of RAM for the original Switch:

Capture.png


This gigaleak slide from June 2015 shows they were already planning on using 4 GB (although it's bolded, so maybe it was changed recently?). Funnily enough, it also shows they were planning on 16 GB of internal storage at that point. That changed to 32 GB sometime in the next 8-ish months, though.
I'm kind of disappointed Nintendo was weird enough to consider less memory than the Wii U... Which is even weirder when the Switch Lite has 32go for 200$
 
okay, here are my 6 predictions. going to try to practice temperance and not flip flop from these until we pass the relevant dates.

1. We will start getting more substantial production leaks sometime in January.
2. The announcement will occur between January 24 and February 9.
3. This is not branded as Nintendo Switch 2, instead bearing a prefix like New and being positioned as a member of the family.
4. As such, it will be 500 USD.
5. The red box model won't be discontinued immediately, which I suspect due to the in-progress packaging redesign, but it will be by next holiday. Once it is, the options will be New, OLED, and Lite separated by 150 USD.
6. May 12, 2023.
 
okay, here are my 6 predictions. going to try to practice temperance and not flip flop from these until we pass the relevant dates.

1. We will start getting more substantial production leaks sometime in January.
2. The announcement will occur between January 24 and February 9.
3. This is not branded as Nintendo Switch 2, instead bearing a prefix like New and being positioned as a member of the family.
4. As such, it will be 500 USD.
5. The red box model won't be discontinued immediately, which I suspect due to the in-progress packaging redesign, but it will be by next holiday. Once it is, the options will be New, OLED, and Lite separated by 150 USD.
6. May 12, 2023.
You had me until May 12th.
 
You had me until May 12th.
it doesn't really work for the predictions but I believe pretty much any time between march and may

basically it'll be out before zelda

addendum, I think if it's coming after zelda as @oldpuck suggested it won't be announced before then. the last thing nintendo wants is people skipping the zelda launch
 
Letsa go.

  1. No reveal video/direct... instead a big Switch 2 event in late February, simular to original Switch event. The announcement of the event doesn't hide the lead: "The Nintendo Switch 2 Presentation"
  2. The event opens with Koizumi on stage "Switch 2 is coming soon! Please be excited!" behind him the huge screen fills with a still of the Mario Movie, "But first, we are all very excited for the first animated blockbuster... wait.. a... that's not an image from The Super Mario Bros. Movie, oops! Sorry everyone, someone must have made a mistake. That's from the in development 3d Super Mario game exclusive to Nintendo Switch 2!" A short teaser of the game plays and everyones loses their mind at how close it comes to the visuals of the movie.
  3. Jensen Huang is on the stage now. "Hello everyone. Boy, am I excited to be here. Didn't that look incredible? Nintendo really have some of the most amazing developers and artists. But you know, to get that level of..." goes on to detail SOC in the new system. 5nm. DLSS. Lumen. Nanite. Footage of really cool looking realistic alien environments are playing, pointing out the features when...
  4. Jasen is interrupted mid-sentence by someone "Where did you get that footage from, Jensen! You're not supposed to have that, that's from our new game. Ugh!" Introduces himself as someone from Retro Studios, talks about development and how excited they are... "Well, we might as well show the full trailer at this point" it looks on par with Halo Infinite... debates on the internet erupt over if it looks better or not.
  5. Miyamoto on stage now. Big smile. Holds up new joycon. They look the same, but a bit bigger. He makes some lame pun about scrolling and a short video plays with his narration about the scrolling shoulder buttons. Comes back to him "One of my favorite uses for this button innovation is in the new Legend of Zelda title. I bet everyone would like to see how that game is looking on the Nintendo Switch 2?" At this point the crowd has lost their minds and they just go crazy. Trailer plays and it looks mostly the same except the lighting features ray tracing which gives it a much different feeling. It looks fantastic. Trailer ends with a different release date.
  6. The Nintendo Switch 2 launches March 24th, with TOTK. People not upgrading have to wait a whole month and a half to play the game. It's so wrong, but it feels so right.
 
Nintendo is notorious for cheaping out on RAM, Capcom warned them about the Switch's 4 GB, and indeed, 2 GB of RAM for software in 2017 sounded ridiculously low, but it worked for many games, and caused a lot of problems for more ambitious, realistic titles. But Nintendo is not dependent on those so ultimately, they were right, and I think the same thing will happen on Drake, but it will be much less problematic.
Don't think this is true. They don't produce a product that's exactly the same as Sony and Microsoft anymore and target a different tech envelope. Even the Wii U had 4x the RAM of the PS3, or 2X if you subtract the 1GB used for the OS. Switch had 8X RAM of a 360/PS3 (more than 6X) if you subtract the OS reserve.

PS4/XBONE had 8GB, so if they are targeting that power range but with more modern architecture and enhancements, 12GB is where they will land. Actually, I would not be surprised if they go with 16GB.
 
If anyone wants a date to potentially expect official or unofficial leaks by, my estimated guess would be late December. Specifically December 29. Why? Because the switch OLED model had the "imminent" article published 134 days before the launch of the switch. And if we assume switch 2 launches on May 12, oh, that would be just around the end of December to the beginning of next year. Which is what many of us have been saying. Nintendo will want to get the bulk of their holiday sales out of the way before articles start spoiling their plans.

It's almost scary how well the dates line up. It would explain the weird mid May launch for Zelda and the emptier march/april.

edit: more

the quickest turn around from reveal to launch was new 3ds: aug 29 > oct 11 2014 (43 days)
"Longest", at least recently would be SWOLED: July 6 > oct 8 2021 (94 days)

So that would put a reveal window for Drake of: Feb 7 - Mar 30 2023, meaning anywhere from shortly after FE Engage to just before the end of their FY or even right at the start of the next one. And uh...guess when their nine month earnings release is?...That's right. Feb. 7th. So who knows? Funky timing...

Source: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/schedule/index.html

Leaky date: Dec 29. Announcement window: Feb 7 - March 30.
 
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I'm kind of disappointed Nintendo was weird enough to consider less memory than the Wii U... Which is even weirder when the Switch Lite has 32go for 200$
The Wii U SKU with 32 GB of older eMMC in it cost $350. The $300 SKU only had 8 GB. They were on their way to making a portable system more powerful than the Wii U and selling it for $300 with no loss this time, so it's not very surprising they considered 16 GB back in 2015. microSD cards exist, and we know how it ended up, so this is just a historical curiosity.
 
The reason why I still think it's coming May is TotK. They can't have a better launch title.
Arguably, the best launch title is one that is makes people want to buy your machine. Breath of the Wild made lots of people own a Switch because that was the way to play Breath of the Wild since very few people owned a Wii U. Tears of the Kingdom is not that experience, with roughly ten times as many Switches sold as Wii U.

If, in March, Nintendo announces that you need the NuSwitch to play the Full Fat Tears of the Kingdom Experience, and the Nu Switch is as hard to get as, say, the OLED model was... do you think that increases sales of the NuSwitch? Or does it reduce sales of Tears of the Kingdom for folks who want to wait? Or are the graphical improvements small enough that people will buy ToTK regardless of whether or not they can get a NuSwitch? In which case, what is the TotK doing for the new hardware?

I honestly can't think of a more "meh" launch than Tears of the Kingdom. I am aware I am in the minority here, but I don't find the package compelling.

Splatoon 3 is being supported until September 2024 and Metroid Prime 4 is still coming out on the current Switch. I don't see any possibility of a farewell to the current Switch models and move to exclusives in 2023.
I don't see a move to exclusives in 2023, it's how they clear the decks for 2024. They could spend 2023 just keeping all the promises to base Switch owners, announce the thing in February, and make it a proper - if backwards compatible - successor.

Or they could push out the last few big base Switch games, and only make cross-gen games for the Lite demographic. 6 of the top 10 best selling 3DS games were Pokemon. Just make the thing a Pokemon/Kirby/Yoshi box until the Lite turns 7.

Or they could do an Xbox Series situation, with basically no major first party exclusives till 2025, full cross-gen support across the board.

I see all of these as viable strategies.

Nintendo is notorious for cheaping out on RAM,
I know you've had some pushback here, but just to reiterate (kindly!) - they really don't. The formula for both the Wii and the Wii U was "our competitors last gen power, but with more RAM". RAM is basically the one place they've been willing to go hard for the last couple of systems.
Based on what's been said here, 8 would be too low for a system with the specs and features of Drake.
Eh, it wouldn't be too low. The lowest end Ampere laptop GPU (which is more powerful than the GPU in Drake) is a 4MB card. That, plus 4GB for non-graphical assets is reasonable. 12GB would be an excellent improvement. 16GB would be a waste. That's why I expect 12, but 8 wouldn't be radically bad.
Why do the Switch OLED devkits have 2 GB more of RAM? 8 GB vs the 6 GB on existing devkits. I know more RAM is welcome for debugging's sake but I was wondering why they'd bother 4 years in, and with no other meaningful difference.
Because if, 4 years in, you want to push more sophisticated software on the exact same hardware, you have to do more intense optimizing, which means a more powerful set of development tools.
 
If anyone wants a date to expect official or unofficial leaks by, my estimated guess would be late December. Specifically December 29. Why? Because the switch OLED model had the "imminent" article published 134 days before the launch of the switch. And if we assume switch 2 launches on May 12, oh, that would be just around the end of December to the beginning of next year. Which is what many of us have been saying. Nintendo will want to get the bulk of their holiday sales out of the way before articles start spoiling their plans.

It's almost scary how well the dates line up. It would explain the weird mid May launch for Zelda and the emptier march/april.
Incredibly doubtful, Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe will both be on holiday.
 
The SDEV also got a bump from 6 GB to 8 GB around the time the ADEV (OLED devkit) was released.
Because if, 4 years in, you want to push more sophisticated software on the exact same hardware, you have to do more intense optimizing, which means a more powerful set of development tools.

Got it. I questioned "why one, and not the other", but since additional RAM was given to all the devkits then that makes sense. The report I read omitted that.
 
i believe the best launch title is either Zelda or a new 3D Mario, nothing unexpected here. for the crowd they are going for at launch with this specific hardware, Zelda fits the bill better.

as far as requiring an optimal launch title to sell the hardware i see this as a fallacy because 1) the cross-gen period for evergreen first party games will go on a while and b) it will sell out regardless.
 
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Here in the forums world we have been feeling the need for Switch Drake for quite some time now. But people out there buy tens of millions of copies of Pokémon RV. Meanwhile, time is ticking and Nate's hypotheses (late 2022/early 2023) crunch and crash, and he himself hasn't found confirmations for months that allow him to share news. If no information arrives after this holiday, I'm really starting to think that there will be no launch before 2024...
 
Here in the forums world we have been feeling the need for Switch Drake for quite some time now. But people out there buy tens of millions of copies of Pokémon RV.
They'll buy 10s of millions of copies of Pokemon on the next device too, I reckon
 
Alright here's my predictions

1. Late April release, promoting re-playing evergreen titles at 4K60 before TotK release, still gives room for Mario Movie
2. Feb. 5-15th announcement, more leaks in January
3. 720p handheld, 128GB UFS 3.0-3.1, 12GB RAM, SDe 7.0
4. $400-475 price
5. Picross title that runs at 4K native
6. Maybe those rumored Zelda/Metroid ports at launch? I'd imagine Nintendo would want "(game title) 4K" instead of just "(game title) HD"

It will be named Nintendo Switch (Gen 2) and you will all like it
 
They'll buy 10s of millions of copies of Pokemon on the next device too, I reckon
Sure, but what are certain datas saying to Nintendo? Are they saying that it's important to come out with new hardware soon, or that the current one still is thealthy and they can wait before cutting its legs off?
 
Sure, but what are certain datas saying to Nintendo? Are they saying that it's important to come out with new hardware soon, or that the current one still is thealthy and they can wait before cutting its legs off?
Nintendo doesn't have the luxury to just wait until the ideal moment to launch a console. It's a highly coordinated process that has limited flexibility once it really gets going.
 
My 6 Predictions:
1. Reveal: Late Jan to Early March reveal event ( Jensen is there and we get a look at a limited edition leather jacket colorway.)

2. Launch: Between May 1 and Early July.

3. Price: 400-450$ for the 128 GB model
500$ for a 256-512 GB model.
Uses UFS 3.1 storage and has 12GB of LPDDR5 RAM.

4. Specifications: Has a 6000 mah battery, has a metal body and around 30 % higher power draw compared to OG switch. Reuses as many parts as possible including the OLED screen, (maybe this is upgraded to a 900p display)and OG fan, not the horrible wifi adapter though. Made on either Samsung 6LPP/TSMC 7nm or TSMC 4N

5. Launches with Metroid Prime remaster( looks much better than Erista version. Uses some form of RT )

6. Most current gen games get day and date releases or at max 1 month delays. Generally performs and looks better than a Series S in docked mode. Has Ps4 Pro level image quality at 720p in handheld mode. It'll probably also have HDR support across the board. All Drake exclusive games are required to have at cloud versions on Erista for at least 2 years. No cloud games on Drake for 6 years.
 
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When will we have our oficial prediction 2023 thread?

Everyone can make 6 predicitons.

6 why? Because it’s my lucky number. And we can check it out in December next year.
Sure, I'll play:
  1. Release in Q1 of FY 03/2024
  2. Pretty much everything that has been discovered from reliable sources up to this point is factually accurate (eg. 8-core-single-cluster A78 CPU, GPU's SP count, Tensor and RT cores, etc.)
  3. eUFS internal storage 128GB or higher
  4. Either UFS Card slot that can load games or a microSD slot with no game loading off the card
  5. PS4 cross-gen titles make a quick jump to the new hardware
  6. $400 or lower, with price cuts for all available Switch models at or shortly after new hardware launch
Anybody read this from today’s GI Biz article:


If they've been sitting on hardware for 2 years, it means that it's not an Orin-based chip, since that didn't even get sampled until H2 2021, and with everything we've read pointing at an Orin-based SoC design, this is 100% verifiably Tales From One's Ass™.
they continue to make up shit about how things work
Indeed. It's like they constructed a narrative that solely fits Nintendo's alleged needs and doesn't factor in the 3rd-party development pipeline at all. And say what you will about Nintendo and 3rd-parties, but even the most unflattering characterization of their indifference toward 3rd-parties would never extend THAT far.
There is no way that a 128 GB Drake unit, with an OLED display, 12 GB of RAM, UFS 3.1, and fabricated on a TSMC 6nm node will sell for $400.

If those specs are accurate we're looking at $500.

To get to $400 Drake would likely have 64 GB of storage, 10 GB of RAM, TSMC 7 nm node, and the same I/O as the current Switch.
Switch was priced at $300 based on costs for components in 2016/2017. What you would pay for, say, a die of eMMC in 2017 at its size gets you more bang for your buck nowadays. That also holds true for SoCs, as well, so long as you're not chasing the newest and hottest nodes.
You have 4 major expenses for a device like this: SoC, display, RAM and battery (and probably in that order, too). Those are the big ones that make up between half and 3 quarters the cost to build it. So let's look at what costs can be expected for these parts.

The display, be it OLED or LCD, is likely going to be the same cost-wise as you would see in Switch unless they push for a 1080p display, because it's unlikely to get any bigger than it already is.
Likewise, if the SoC is hitting the same TDP, they can use the same battery as found in Switch, which has declined in cost through the sheer volume Nintendo requires, but Li-Ion battery density improves by about 2% year over year while seeing little in the way of cost increases, so they could opt for more battery life in a similar package and pay what they paid for the Switch's battery at launch. Either way, the cost is either smaller or the same as it was in 2017.
Likewise, when you review retail prices on RAM historically, you can see that better RAM eventually equals the price one would pay for the prior generation. 2 x 8GB of DDR4-3000 RAM in 2017 was available for $75-80 (which is more than what went into Switch), while in 2022, 2 x 8GB of DDR5-4800 is $63. So that's... as low as $4.69 per GB of DDR4 in 2017 vs. $3.94 per GB of DD5 in 2022. Keeping in mind that this is retail price analysis for computer parts, it bodes well for the jump in RAM quantity in Drake not being that much more money, all things considered. It'll be more, but not enough that one should consider a $200 price increase to the hardware to be reasonable.

So only the SoC remains... the RAM price increase would, at most, bump cost up by $50 per unit, and that's being really kind to the notion of inflated cost for parts. So, one would have to consider, if $500 is the expectation, will the cost of an SoC of similar die size and TDP not on the newest and hottest node constitute reason to suspect a $150 cost increase per unit? My feeling is that the answer to that is a resounding "no".
Is it really that big of a difference in terms of money? I mean, 450$ could make more sense but I didn't anticipated that the 7nm node is so much cheaper than 6nm (In my understanding 128->64ufs3.1 & 12->10gb ram shouldn't affect the price for more than 20-30$. Or am I wrong?).
No, you're not wrong.
I think Switch maintaining its $300 MSRP for its entire lifespan has grossly distorted what people believe the costs of components for new hardware will be instead of considering how much of that $300 price for a Switch actually ends up in Nintendo's pocket.
 
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I do not believe that we can have simultaneously:

  • a node better than Samsung 8nm.
  • a H1 2023 release.
  • a price of 450 bells or less.

It's also, among other things, why I believe in later release. The specs from the hack seem quite ambitious and going with Samsung 8nm would be a bit strange. I expect them to use something more modern and efficient, though not state of the art.
I do not believe that Nintendo would be willing to go to 500 bucks or more for a new generation. Nerds would be ok with such price, but we're not the only demographic targeted by Nintendo and I think that 450 is the ceiling for a console which will be perceived, on release, as underpowered and without the element of surprise of the first Switch.

Thus, of those 3 criteria, only the release date can be adjusted in my opinion, and waiting another year would permit to bring the costs down. Nintendo will be very fine coasting with the OLED model in the meantime, and I believe it's been their plan all along; selling 15-17 millions machines in 2023 wouldn't be too shabby.
 
I think Switch maintaining its $300 MSRP for its entire lifespan has grossly distorted what people believe the costs of components for new hardware will be instead of considering how much of that $300 price for a Switch actually ends up in Nintendo's pocket.
Indeed. For me the chances this thing releases for more than 400$ are pretty low. It goes like 65% chance it is 400$, 20%chance it is 420 to 450$, 10% chance it is lower than 400$ and 5% chance it is higher than 450$.

Also, I really don't think Nintendo executives will be overly confident and release this thing with a 100$ price increase over the Switch OLED or a 150$ price increase over the base Switch. For some of us it seems probable for all kinds of reasons but for Nintendo... I doubt they would be that confident. Did such a price price increase ever happened in Nintendo's history?
 
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I also want to play, here are my predictions:

1. releases the same day as Tears of the Kingdom (the one I'm least confident in)
2. Has a larger, 1080p OLED screen (7.5 inches), 128GB of (non-esoteric) storage and bigger joycons. Normal Micro sd slot.
3. The next Mario Kart and the 3D Mario Team's new game are Drake exclusive and releasing during launch year
4. Backwards compatibility PS5-style, no patches for older games. A few games (like Smash Ultimate) get 70$ Deluxe editions with improvements.
5. Nintendo of America in particular wants every PS4 AAA game on the console and pushes their partners to port everything relevant in the early years of the platform
6. They want rapid adoption, so they'll phase out every other model except the Switch Lite by Christmas.

I think people overestimate the impact of a high price in 2023. Today spending a lot of money on tech has been perfectly normalized by smartphones manufacturers, the xbox series s is readily available on shelves despite series x and playstation 5 being hard to find and "Nintendo Switch" is a household name not comparable to the gimmicky Wii everyone had lost interest in by 2012
 
I do not believe that we can have simultaneously:

  • a node better than Samsung 8nm.
  • a H1 2023 release.
  • a price of 450 bells or less.

It's also, among other things, why I believe in later release. The specs from the hack seem quite ambitious and going with Samsung 8nm would be a bit strange. I expect them to use something more modern and efficient, though not state of the art.
I do not believe that Nintendo would be willing to go to 500 bucks or more for a new generation. Nerds would be ok with such price, but we're not the only demographic targeted by Nintendo and I think that 450 is the ceiling for a console which will be perceived, on release, as underpowered and without the element of surprise of the first Switch.

Thus, of those 3 criteria, only the release date can be adjusted in my opinion, and waiting another year would permit to bring the costs down. Nintendo will be very fine coasting with the OLED model in the meantime, and I believe it's been their plan all along; selling 15-17 millions machines in 2023 wouldn't be too shabby.
A node better than 8nm has existed for many years. Companies are actually moving off of one. Remember that 8nm is a refined Samsung 10nm, which started producing products in 2017.
 
Sure, I'll play:
  1. Release in Q1 of FY 03/2024
  2. Pretty much everything that has been discovered from reliable sources up to this point is factually accurate (eg. 8-core-single-cluster A78 CPU, GPU's SP count, Tensor and RT cores, etc.)
  3. eUFS internal storage 128GB or higher
  4. Either UFS Card slot that can load games or a microSD slot with no game loading off the card
  5. PS4 cross-gen titles make a quick jump to the new hardware
  6. $400 or lower, with price cuts for all available Switch models at or shortly after new hardware launch

If they've been sitting on hardware for 2 years, it means that it's not an Orin-based chip, since that didn't even get sampled until H2 2021, and with everything we've read pointing at an Orin-based SoC design, this is 100% verifiably Tales From One's Ass™.

Indeed. It's like they constructed a narrative that solely fits Nintendo's alleged needs and doesn't factor in the 3rd-party development pipeline at all. And say what you will about Nintendo and 3rd-parties, but even the most unflattering characterization of their indifference toward 3rd-parties would never extend THAT far.

Switch was priced at $300 based on costs for components in 2016/2017. What you would pay for, say, a die of eMMC in 2017 at its size gets you more bang for your buck nowadays. That also holds true for SoCs, as well, so long as you're not chasing the newest and hottest nodes.
You have 4 major expenses for a device like this: SoC, display, RAM and battery (and probably in that order, too). Those are the big ones that make up between half and 3 quarters the cost to build it. So let's look at what costs can be expected for these parts.

The display, be it OLED or LCD, is likely going to be the same cost-wise as you would see in Switch unless they push for a 1080p display, because it's unlikely to get any bigger than it already is.
Likewise, if the SoC is hitting the same TDP, they can use the same battery as found in Switch, which has declined in cost through the sheer volume Nintendo requires, but Li-Ion battery density improves by about 2% year over year while seeing little in the way of cost increases, so they could opt for more battery life in a similar package and pay what they paid for the Switch's battery at launch. Either way, the cost is either smaller or the same as it was in 2017.
Likewise, when you review retail prices on RAM historically, you can see that better RAM eventually equals the price one would pay for the prior generation. 2 x 8GB of DDR4-3000 RAM in 2017 was available for $75-80 (which is more than what went into Switch), while in 2022, 2 x 8GB of DDR5-4800 is $63. So that's... as low as $4.69 per GB of DDR4 in 2017 vs. $3.94 per GB of DD5 in 2022. Keeping in mind that this is retail price analysis for computer parts, it bodes well for the jump in RAM quantity in Drake not being that much more money, all things considered. It'll be more, but not enough that one should consider a $200 price increase to the hardware to be reasonable.

So only the SoC remains... the RAM price increase would, at most, bump cost up by $50 per unit, and that's being really kind to the notion of inflated cost for parts. So, one would have to consider, if $500 is the expectation, will the cost of an SoC of similar die size and TDP not on the newest and hottest node constitute reason to suspect a $150 cost increase per unit? My feeling is that the answer to that is a resounding "no".

No, you're not wrong.
I think Switch maintaining its $300 MSRP for its entire lifespan has grossly distorted what people believe the costs of components for new hardware will be instead of considering how much of that $300 price for a Switch actually ends up in Nintendo's pocket.
I'll believe UFS card is a possibility when UFS card goes back in time to become something other than a commercial failure.
 
I lack the inspiration for 6 predictions right now, but here are two random thoughts.

- at this point I want to temper my expectations regarding potential dates, a bit on the pessimistic side but I think it’s for the best to avoid any additional disappointment. In the absolute worst case, I think we can at least expect an announcement in 2023 for a 2024 release so we that’s still less than a year to wait before we get official news at this point.

- the more I think about it, the more I’m really into the « Ultra » name. Aside from the Ultra 64 callback that most people probably won’t think of, it sounds great and evokes a real step up in technical capabilities both in the tech inside and in the video output improvements.

Also it wouldn’t feel like an « easy » name like Super or Advance which would both reference previous hardware (not necessarily bad ideas though).

But I’m also thinking of the, in my opinion, required simplicity of the branding and the ease the talk about it.
« Ultra Switch » and « Switch Ultra » both roll nice on the tongue (if that’s the right way to say it lol, not sure), whatever the order is in the official branding, and that’s probably true for any language.
« Advance Switch » or « Switch Super » don’t have this for them for instance.
 
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1. 8nm Samsung and disappointing clocks/ battery life.
2. MK 9 cross gen/ smash kart
3. Release in Totk timeframe
4. No first party exclusives in the launch window and beyond.
5. A simple camera for AR
6. Driftless joycons.
 
I kind of... vaguely remember.... a long while ago, Nate mentioning 8nm or something - did I hallucinate that completely? 💀
 
I kind of... vaguely remember.... a long while ago, Nate mentioning 8nm or something - did I hallucinate that completely? 💀
He did, along with kopite. It’s the only process we have sources on. The reason to doubt it, is that it’s a ridiculously large and power hungry chip at 8nm.
 
1. 8nm Samsung and disappointing clocks/ battery life.
2. MK 9 cross gen/ smash kart
3. Release in Totk timeframe
4. No first party exclusives in the launch window and beyond.
5. A simple camera for AR
6. Driftless joycons.
A realistic, but a tad bleak prediction. 👍🏾
 
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If anyone wants a date to potentially expect official or unofficial leaks by, my estimated guess would be late December. Specifically December 29. Why? Because the switch OLED model had the "imminent" article published 134 days before the launch of the switch. And if we assume switch 2 launches on May 12, oh, that would be just around the end of December to the beginning of next year. Which is what many of us have been saying. Nintendo will want to get the bulk of their holiday sales out of the way before articles start spoiling their plans.

It's almost scary how well the dates line up. It would explain the weird mid May launch for Zelda and the emptier march/april.

edit: more

the quickest turn around from reveal to launch was new 3ds: aug 29 > oct 11 2014 (43 days)
"Longest", at least recently would be SWOLED: July 6 > oct 8 2021 (94 days)

So that would put a reveal window for Drake of: Feb 7 - Mar 30 2023, meaning anywhere from shortly after FE Engage to just before the end of their FY or even right at the start of the next one. And uh...guess when their nine month earnings release is?...That's right. Feb. 7th. So who knows? Funky timing...

Source: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/schedule/index.html

Leaky date: Dec 29. Announcement window: Feb 7 - March 30.
Things are different in the holiday season. Sources are busier, more stressed, less free time to talk and leak and all that. Don't expect anything until midway though January imo
 
It's certain that GA10F is the GPU in the T239 SoC. But some have tried to argue that T239 itself isn't necessarily what NVN2 (and therefore the new Switch model) is meant to use, which is what my threadmarked post is about.

I didn't even get into all the evidence that's in there, just what I thought was a good topline summary. Fact is, anyone claiming we don't know for sure what NVN2's intended target is ("it also mentions other chips!") has never actually looked at the source and is just reinterpreting things second- or third-hand.
That was what I thought, thank you.
 
I don't get the obsession about expensive, fast storage. In any case, it still won't be enough not to require people to get an external expansion and it won't be fast enough to match the next gen.

Drake games will have loading times. Big , open world, AAA games designed around streaming ungodly amounts of assets through Direct Storage or similar APIs won't be on Drake. Why shouldn't Nintendo just cheap out? They wouldn't even have to explain different types of micro sd to their customers.

Storage expansion on PS5 and Xbox Series is something meant for enthusiasts and I expect the PS5 to remove the internal slot somewhere along its lifecycle to cut costs. It's not a necessity.
 
the quickest turn around from reveal to launch was new 3ds: aug 29 > oct 11 2014 (43 days)
DSi, October 2 -> November 1, 2008 (30)
DSL, January 26 -> March 3, 2006 (35)
GBASP, January 6 -> February 14, 2003 (39)

None of those were nearly as big a change as the Drake model, though, certainly expecting to hear about it more than a month before launch.
I know you've had some pushback here, but just to reiterate (kindly!) - they really don't. The formula for both the Wii and the Wii U was "our competitors last gen power, but with more RAM". RAM is basically the one place they've been willing to go hard for the last couple of systems.
Wii and Wii U getting ~double the RAM of previous generation consoles was pretty ridiculously low for the time, when we were usually seeing generation increases of 8-16x. It's not like they had the excuse of being particularly cheap machines, either. Wii in 2006 was giving less RAM for your buck than GameCube had by 2003. Of course, both systems had plenty of other things keeping them from getting easy ports from other systems, so I'm not sure how much good it would've done for them to suck less in that one way. 3-4GB for a 2017 portable, though, no complaints from me.
4. Backwards compatibility PS5-style, no patches for older games.
Haven't a lot of PS4 games gotten PS5 patches?
 
Haven't a lot of PS4 games gotten PS5 patches?
I meant it as a "but no patches for older games". I know God of War got a patch to run at 4k on PS5 but I don't expect Nintendo to patch, for example, BotW to run at 4k on Drake.

Of course there would still be benefits for games that have a dynamic resolution or an unstable framerate
 
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Are we playing? Yes!
1. To be released on May 12th alongside TotK.
2. Announcement early March.
3. Oled screen.
4. More expensive than the Oled model.
5. Next Mario Kart exclusive to Switch 2.

😎
Now to wait and see what was right and what was wrong.
 
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Don't think this is true. They don't produce a product that's exactly the same as Sony and Microsoft anymore and target a different tech envelope. Even the Wii U had 4x the RAM of the PS3, or 2X if you subtract the 1GB used for the OS. Switch had 8X RAM of a 360/PS3 (more than 6X) if you subtract the OS reserve.

PS4/XBONE had 8GB, so if they are targeting that power range but with more modern architecture and enhancements, 12GB is where they will land. Actually, I would not be surprised if they go with 16GB.
WiiU and Switch are one generation above PS3 so them having 4x/ 8x more RAM is not that notable.
The fact that the Switch only had 4 with all other consoles having 8 is what stands out.

You could say it was risky and even foolish move from Nintendo to do so, since the lack of RAM severely impacted Gen 8 ports and even some first party games, considering how much money Nintendo has in the bank, you could argue it was an unnecessary risk to take and that Nintendo should've just put in 8 GB of RAM and have a smaller profit range of the US$ 300.

The whole point of this discussion is that I used the Switch as an example to why Nintendo very realistically could use only 8 GB on Drake even it severely cuts down on the potential of the hardware.
 
Yeah. The amount available to games is 3285 MB*, so the OS is using at most 811 MB.

*Minus 96 MB for a maximum of 3189 MB when video capture is enabled.

I also think the narrative has become a bit off that Nintendo was planning for the memory size to be 3 GB but Capcom made them reconsider and go with 4 GB. The source of that information was a conference talk given jointly by Nintendo and Capcom, which was about the collaboration between them ahead of the Switch's launch. And it would have been a normal part of that process for Nintendo to solicit feedback on specs like the RAM. And I'm sure it's true that part of Capcom's feedback was that they wanted more RAM, and other developers probably said the same thing, but I doubt they told Nintendo anything they didn't already know in that case.
I've seen a lot of stories about the hardware development history of Nintendo, and from my point of view, it's not "normal" at all from Nintendo to "solicit feedback" from third parties.

Usually, Nintendo comes from a position that they don't need the third parties (and they really don't need them to survive, it's just a nice to have), Nintendo just tells partners the specs, that's what you have, live with it, they usually don't change much regardless of feedback, while other companies such as Sony, talk to third parties even before starting the development of the hardware.
Nintendo faced extremely negative feedback from devs on for example N64 and Wii specs, with many studios threatening to or ultimately abandoning Nintendo. In both cases Nintendo didn't change the specs much or at all and just lived with the consequences.

Again, my point is that giving their history, Nintendo might very well stick to 8 GB on Drake regardless of whatever consequences that might have.
 
Please read this staff post before posting.

Furthermore, according to this follow-up post, all off-topic chat will be moderated.
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